How to tell vegan friends to back off?!

I have to say though, the whole "we're meant to eat meat" thing is annoying. "Meant to" by who? God? Will we die without it? Am I a zombie at this point?

Physiologically, it's hard to argue that human beings are "meant to be" omnivores. Most herbivores have eyes set on the sides of their heads, to see predators coming. They generally have vision up to about 270 degrees or so. Human beings have eyes set on the front of their heads, like predatory species, not prey species.

Human beings primarily have teeth that cut and tear. Our grinding teeth are limited and set at the back of our mouths. Other omnivorous or carnivorous animals have such teeth. Herbivorous mammals have tearing teeth at the font of their mouths and grinding teeth all along their jaws.

Human beings have two breasts on the front of their bodies. In terms of mammals, we're pikers: dogs, for example, have up to ten "breasts" on their bellies (I think they actually have 8 breasts and 10 nipples, but I might be mistaken). Regardless. Most herbivores nurse their young from udders between their hind legs. I'm pretty sure Al Bundy didn't read "Udder 'Uns."

Herbivores digest cellulose. Human beings do not. Some herbivores have several stomachs that allow them to break down cellulose efficiently. When was the last time anyone here saw a human being chew his/her cud?

Human beings have guts of moderate length. Herbivores tend to have very long or complex guts, including those multiple stomachs at times, to aid in the digestion of cellulose. Our guts are neither as long as herbivores or as short as carnivores. That in itself would suggest an omnivorous diet.

Herbivores are born capable of walking and running within minutes of their birth. Human beings, like other omnivores, are born with poor vision and essentially undeveloped. We are slightly more developed than carnivorous animals or to omnivores closer to carnivorous. Feline and canine species, after all, are born with sealed ears and eyes, whereas human beings have limited vision and can hear.

So, whether you argue the existence of God or not--and I believe that God exists and is the Creator--it would seem logical that we were physiologically "meant" to eat meat. We might not die without it, but most vegans take a boatload of supplements. In my opinion, most vegans don't look healthy, especially those who have been at it for a while or those who claim to have active lifestyles. To me, that would speak to them having a less than adequate diet *for the species* even if they can sustain themselves quiet adequately on what they eat.

""Ethical" vegans, if they are also animal right activists/animal liberationists have certainly been linked to violence."

You also noted that you "can't co-exist" with ethical vegans, be they animal rights activists/animal liberationists or not. Just seems like a lot of people here assume that they can make blanket statements about ethical vegans is all. A lot of us are peace-loving people.

By its very nature, "ethical" veganism labels my way of life cruel and wants to eliminate it. So no, I can't co-exist with that.

Actually, "ethical veganism" has nothing to do with elimination. Being an ethical vegan means that I choose not to eat meat because *I* believe it is unethical. While ethical vegans might hope that people would stop consuming/exploiting animals, at its core, it has only to do with the reason that particular person chooses not to eat meat. Vegans who do so for health reasons do it for their own health - not yours. Ethical veganism is similar in this regard.

If you believe it is unethical, then you are labeling the majority of the population as unethical. The rest of your post is just whitewash. I've seen too much from animal rights/animal liberation types and other types of humaniacs to believe otherwise.

OP, just dump those so-called friends. They're trying to save your soul and eating is not a moral act. It's something we do because we need to survive and also because we enjoy it. Someone giving you the label of "unethical" is not an act of friendship and the attempt to convert you against your will is pretty much an act of violence.

Some people think it's unethical or inappropriate for women to show their hair in public. Someone who follows a certain religion very closely might be instructed by their holy texts to shun others who don't have the same beliefs. Just because we think differently doesn't mean we can't co-exist - a society doesn't evolve as a whole if they allow semantic labels to divide them and cause animosity.

But, I'm glad you're not throwing blanket statements out because you've "heard enough from animal rights people". This ethical vegan thinks and speaks otherwise.

Don't feed the troll.

""Ethical" vegans, if they are also animal right activists/animal liberationists have certainly been linked to violence."

You also noted that you "can't co-exist" with ethical vegans, be they animal rights activists/animal liberationists or not. Just seems like a lot of people here assume that they can make blanket statements about ethical vegans is all. A lot of us are peace-loving people.

By its very nature, "ethical" veganism labels my way of life cruel and wants to eliminate it. So no, I can't co-exist with that.

Actually, "ethical veganism" has nothing to do with elimination. Being an ethical vegan means that I choose not to eat meat because *I* believe it is unethical. While ethical vegans might hope that people would stop consuming/exploiting animals, at its core, it has only to do with the reason that particular person chooses not to eat meat. Vegans who do so for health reasons do it for their own health - not yours. Ethical veganism is similar in this regard.

If you believe it is unethical, then you are labeling the majority of the population as unethical. The rest of your post is just whitewash. I've seen too much from animal rights/animal liberation types and other types of humaniacs to believe otherwise.

OP, just dump those so-called friends. They're trying to save your soul and eating is not a moral act. It's something we do because we need to survive and also because we enjoy it. Someone giving you the label of "unethical" is not an act of friendship and the attempt to convert you against your will is pretty much an act of violence.

Some people think it's unethical or inappropriate for women to show their hair in public. Someone who follows a certain religion very closely might be instructed by their holy texts to shun others who don't have the same beliefs. Just because we think differently doesn't mean we can't co-exist - a society doesn't evolve as a whole if they allow semantic labels to divide them and cause animosity.

But, I'm glad you're not throwing blanket statements out because you've "heard enough from animal rights people". This ethical vegan thinks and speaks otherwise.

So you think that all the anti-animal agriculture bills in various states and new laws that are making animal production of any kind difficult are written by omnivores and animal welfare proponents? Are you admitting that "ethical" veganism is a religion? If you're not, then the first part of your statement is a non sequitur.

I get it family and friends who are vegan have their views but they always try to push it on me or others, it's like solicitors that come door to door trying to get you to take their pamphlets or switch to their internet provider. I respect their choice and so make sure to include meals they can eat during a get together. But I don't push them to eat animal products.

And I've already heard "well if you tried it you'll like it or feel better". Yeah I was vegan for over a year before but it wasn't for me. At the time I was rowing and competing in regattas which meant I was training in the gym 5 days and on the water 4 days of the week. Perhaps it was the timing but I could never get enough calories or protein from alternative sources. I felt weaker and was always tired.

I already don't eat most dairy products and during the week include vegan meals but I just like meat.

Simply saying "no thank you" or even explaining what I just did here doesn't seem to work. Anyone else experience this? What do you do?

Seriously? The same way I tell my omnivore friends to back off. Commenting on someone else's food choices is rude, no matter what philosophy you are pushing. Repeat after me:

"I won't comment on your food choices, and I need you not to comment on mine."

Of course, that means that you can't criticize them for being vegan, either. Given that you started a thread just to complain about them, that may be difficult.

Ethical veganism is a way of eating, but also a moral code - it's about right vs. wrong. And really, what is religion other than a moral code that designates what is right and wrong?

I would personally think that all vegans are "ethical vegan" in that it is hard for me to understand why anyone would adopt veganism for reasons other than they believe that use of animals is unethical. I mean other than "ethical vegans" what other types of vegans are there? No one becomes vegan for health reasons right because that would be hard to justify in my opinion.

This isn't to do with them being vegan it's about being stubborn and disrespectful.

If being polite isn't working then it's time to evaluate who you have in your life. If it's family you can't get away from then a firm "leave me alone!" may suffice.

They're not respecting your choices, so don't accept their actions and very strongly tell them to stop.

Ethical veganism is a way of eating, but also a moral code - it's about right vs. wrong. And really, what is religion other than a moral code that designates what is right and wrong?

I would personally think that all vegans are "ethical vegan" in that it is hard for me to understand why anyone would adopt veganism for reasons other than they believe that use of animals is unethical. I mean other than "ethical vegans" what other types of vegans are there? No one becomes vegan for health reasons right because that would be hard to justify in my opinion.

A lot of people think a vegan diet is healthier than eating meat or think it's a good way to lose weight.

Happens all the time.

Ethical veganism is a way of eating, but also a moral code - it's about right vs. wrong. And really, what is religion other than a moral code that designates what is right and wrong?

I would personally think that all vegans are "ethical vegan" in that it is hard for me to understand why anyone would adopt veganism for reasons other than they believe that use of animals is unethical. I mean other than "ethical vegans" what other types of vegans are there? No one becomes vegan for health reasons right because that would be hard to justify in my opinion.

A lot of people think a vegan diet is healthier than eating meat or think it's a good way to lose weight.

Happens all the time.

Okay well I guess I should rephrase that I can respect the logic of someone who is vegan for ethical reasons but someone who is vegan for "health" reasons strikes me as someone who hasn't done their homework or is jumping on a nearby bandwagon because yeah I don't think being vegan = being healthier.

Find a vehement Paleo diet follower. Introduce to the vegans. Get popcorn.