How do you feel about fat pride?

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  • kirili3
    kirili3 Posts: 244 Member
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    I'd take a different view on things. I'd say you're entitled to get as fat as you want, smoke as much as you want, drink as much as you want, tan as much as you want, whatever you want that what makes you happy provided it doesn't hurt other people - but you should pay for your own healthcare / health insurance (or live with the consequences), rather than spreading that cost around to other people. Just my $0.02, but the problem with me having to subsidize other people's costs shouldn't be blamed on their poor health or their poor decision making; it should be blamed on our bloated government and healthcare system that spreads those costs around, rather than putting them on the individual responsible for their own poor health.

    Society "creating a support system" sounds all nice, warm and fuzzy, but as a practical matter people are going to do what makes them happy (particularly what makes them happy in the short term), and that's particularly true when you begin to take away the financial consequences of their actions. Likewise, spreading a message that "un-health isn't a great idea", aside from the awkward double negative, isn't exactly going to do a lot. I'd wager that the vast, vast majority of fat people know they aren't in perfect health and that their weight is almost certain to catch up with them at the end of the day. That's like telling a smoker that it's bad for him - you think he doesn't already know that? Even most "fat acceptance" people aren't suggesting that they are as healthy as someone at a "normal" body fat measurement, but rather making a more nuanced argument about the negative effects of yo-yo dieting and the poor chances for long-term success in weight loss.

    At the end of the day, I'd say to let people do what they want to do, don't worry so much about what other people do, and to the extent their poor choices affect your wallet, take that up with your bloated government.
    I think our healthcare in the Nordic countries is pretty good in comparison with some other places. I don't mind you calling it warm and fuzzy at all; quality of life is great here.

    +1 excellent.

    I live in a very capitalist area which has almost free healthcare (changing currency, about 12 USD at emergency, less than 6 USD for clinics including meds). The American refusal to respect that very basic right is frankly mind-boggling.
  • RaggedyPond
    RaggedyPond Posts: 1,487 Member
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    Being fat makes corporations more money. They spend more on healthcare and more on cheaply made food.
  • velvet_violence
    velvet_violence Posts: 51
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    Being fat makes corporations more money. They spend more on healthcare and more on cheaply made food.

    This line of reasoning hits close to home to me. What I tell people is that when I was on the American Standard Diet I would have to pay for my food three times, through subsidies, at the point of purchase, and finally with my health. Now that I buy things from my local co-op, I still have to shell out for the subsidies and pay a lot more at the point of purchase, but I am not paying a third time. I think a critical view of the diet in this country and the vested interests involved is very important to this discussion.
  • Slacker16
    Slacker16 Posts: 1,184 Member
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    (...)http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.ca/2013/12/does-metabolically-healthy-obesity-exist.html

    This blog post - I posted it earlier - made me think a bit differently about what I thought I knew.

    Again not saying I support the fat pride movement. I think I tend to agree with SunofaBeach on this issue.

    I am also not sure, I agree with the conclusions from the above article. But if one were to agree with the conclusions (he makes a compelling argument), and agreed that 10% or so of obese people are actually metabolically healthy. Then what does that mean for non-obese fat people? What percentage of them are healthy?(...)
    Three things about the blog post and the article it refers to:

    1. I will quote directly from the post (emphasis theirs):
    Another important finding of Dr. Sharma's study lurks in the supplemental materials. These data show that although some obese people do fall into the apparently healthy EOSS stage 0 classification, this only applies to less than 10 percent. About 20 percent fall into EOSS stages 0 and 1 combined, meaning they are minimally impaired. The other 80 percent of obese US adults have "established obesity-related chronic disease", "established end-organ damage", or "severe (possibly end-stage) disabilities".
    2. Unless I missed something, the article defined obesity in terms of BMI.

    I'll assume they didn't include any "obese" professional athletes, but even so two people could have the same BMI and both be out of shape but have significantly different body fat % because of bone and muscle mass. It would be interesting to see if the EOSS score correlates (even) better with body fat % than with BMI.

    3. I looked at the article and the breakdown of EOSS by obesity level is here:
    http://www.cmaj.ca/content/suppl/2011/08/15/cmaj.110387.DC1/obesity-pad-3-at.pdf

    About 60% of non-obese overweight people are at stages 2 and 3.
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
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    Being fat makes corporations more money. They spend more on healthcare and more on cheaply made food.

    This line of reasoning hits close to home to me. What I tell people is that when I was on the American Standard Diet I would have to pay for my food three times, through subsidies, at the point of purchase, and finally with my health. Now that I buy things from my local co-op, I still have to shell out for the subsidies and pay a lot more at the point of purchase, but I am not paying a third time. I think a critical view of the diet in this country and the vested interests involved is very important to this discussion.

    So you can't get fat or be unhealthy if you shop at the co-op? Good to know.

    Edit: Typo.
  • velvet_violence
    velvet_violence Posts: 51
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    Being fat makes corporations more money. They spend more on healthcare and more on cheaply made food.

    This line of reasoning hits close to home to me. What I tell people is that when I was on the American Standard Diet I would have to pay for my food three times, through subsidies, at the point of purchase, and finally with my health. Now that I buy things from my local co-op, I still have to shell out for the subsidies and pay a lot more at the point of purchase, but I am not paying a third time. I think a critical view of the diet in this country and the vested interests involved is very important to this discussion.

    So you can't get fat or be unhealthy if you shop on the co-op? Good to know.

    Well I usually get my stuff inside....
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
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    Well I usually get my stuff inside....

    Typo corrected. But interesting to see you don't appear to disagree with that statement.
  • randomtai
    randomtai Posts: 9,003 Member
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    Being fat makes corporations more money. They spend more on healthcare and more on cheaply made food.

    This line of reasoning hits close to home to me. What I tell people is that when I was on the American Standard Diet I would have to pay for my food three times, through subsidies, at the point of purchase, and finally with my health. Now that I buy things from my local co-op, I still have to shell out for the subsidies and pay a lot more at the point of purchase, but I am not paying a third time. I think a critical view of the diet in this country and the vested interests involved is very important to this discussion.

    So you can't get fat or be unhealthy if you shop on the co-op? Good to know.

    Well I usually get my stuff inside....

    What the heck does this even mean??? :huh: :huh: :huh: :laugh:
  • velvet_violence
    velvet_violence Posts: 51
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    For those who believe that nutrition is more than CICO getting proper provisions is necessary, and I choose to get them to the closest place to my house. I understand people can lose eating things like McD's and yes people don't have to go to the co-op to lose but the food in the US in general is neither good nor whole.
  • ColeCake292012
    ColeCake292012 Posts: 247 Member
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    Honestly, since I've never considered myself that big, I don't think its my place to have much of an opinion. I do think everyone deserves acceptance and self-esteem, though.
  • MrTolerable
    MrTolerable Posts: 1,593 Member
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    Honestly, since I've never considered myself that big, I don't think its my place to have much of an opinion. I do think everyone deserves acceptance and self-esteem, though.

    ^humble much? XD
  • MrTolerable
    MrTolerable Posts: 1,593 Member
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    I don't want to derail this thread...but da faq is a co-op?!

    And if this will save me $$$ buying food ($200 a week lately - and I'm in just cutting stage) please elaborate intently
  • JustYandy
    JustYandy Posts: 221 Member
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    Really like anything else so cares fat pride,straight pride,gay pride...if they are happy then it's non of our business to judge there way of life.
  • SibylDiane
    SibylDiane Posts: 177 Member
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    I do not believe anyone should be shamed, discriminated against, or made to feel like a bad person for being fat.
    That said, I think "fat pride" is delusional and harmful. I personally do not think it is possible to be obese over the long term and maintain good health. But that has to do purely with health and not with anyone's worth as a human being. I've lived as a super morbidly obese person for most of my life but am now "overweight" and not too far from normal, and I probably have too many personal feelings on this topic to really express it on an internet message board!
  • velvet_violence
    velvet_violence Posts: 51
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    I don't want to derail this thread...but da faq is a co-op?!

    And if this will save me $$$ buying food ($200 a week lately - and I'm in just cutting stage) please elaborate intently

    Well I am in Portland, OR and we're pretty crunchy/hippie dippie here.

    The technical definition:

    "a business or organization that is owned and operated by the people who work there or the people who use its services"

    So the person who runs it is very invested in the quality of the products and researches them in ways I don't have time for. Depends on your priorities, though. Just seems like everything I taste there is better and with fewer/better ingredients but it does not save me money. I used to coupon a lot and I'm paying a ton more than I was but definitely less than you are.
  • DerekVTX
    DerekVTX Posts: 287 Member
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    Nobody should feel any pride in being fat, nor should they accept being fat. Acceptance of your overweight body is the reason why many people never do anything about it. I accepted my body for too long, but not any more.
  • MrTolerable
    MrTolerable Posts: 1,593 Member
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    I don't want to derail this thread...but da faq is a co-op?!

    And if this will save me $$$ buying food ($200 a week lately - and I'm in just cutting stage) please elaborate intently

    Well I am in Portland, OR and we're pretty crunchy/hippie dippie here.

    The technical definition:

    "a business or organization that is owned and operated by the people who work there or the people who use its services"

    So the person who runs it is very invested in the quality of the products and researches them in ways I don't have time for. Depends on your priorities, though. Just seems like everything I taste there is better and with fewer/better ingredients but it does not save me money. I used to coupon a lot and I'm paying a ton more than I was but definitely less than you are.

    ^sheesh.. and yeah I'm including a few of my toiletries in that number as well... not my moisturizer tho which is $75 ..smh.

    I'll have to check it out... I thought it was like a farmers market..
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
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    I don't want to derail this thread...but da faq is a co-op?!

    And if this will save me $$$ buying food ($200 a week lately - and I'm in just cutting stage) please elaborate intently

    Basically it just comes down to the structure of the business. The suggestion that the mere act of shopping at a co-op is somehow healthier for you is akin to suggesting that you'll be healthier because you shop at a grocer that's a privately owned company versus a publicly traded corporation like Whole Foods. I'm all for quality grocers but I wouldn't confuse quality with health.
  • velvet_violence
    velvet_violence Posts: 51
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    I don't want to derail this thread...but da faq is a co-op?!

    And if this will save me $$$ buying food ($200 a week lately - and I'm in just cutting stage) please elaborate intently

    Basically it just comes down to the structure of the business. The suggestion that the mere act of shopping at a co-op is somehow healthier for you is akin to suggesting that you'll be healthier because you shop at a grocer that's a privately owned company versus a publicly traded corporation like Whole Foods. I'm all for quality grocers but I wouldn't confuse quality with health.

    It really wasn't meant to be instructional. Not sure why you implicitly disagree that most Americans eat crappy food.
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
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    If by crappy you mean generally lower quality, I don't really disagree with that. I just find the notion that a business being a co-op versus any other business entity has anything to do with your health as humorous. Health comes from your diet and activity, not the business structure of the grocer where you buy your groceries. You might have a better selection of high quality foods at your co-op, but that has little to do with your health.

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