MFP has changed

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No, no one is missing the point. But the point I've made several times already is that not everyone is able to take control for themselves. They rely on outsiders to help and to support them. He wasn't being stupid or uncooperative. He just needed support and education. No one would be on this site if everyone were perfect and had always had control over their diets and their weight.

The thing is that they are able to. If they choose to is a completely different issue.

Yes. Just like every depressed person should just be able to suck it up and get over what is bothering them.

Get real.

Sometimes people can't just decide to do better on their own. Would it kill people to try to offer them some assistance?

Nobody making a post on an internet forum can change another person. That person has to take action and make that change. Tips, advice, guidance, prodding, or all out directing online are useless until the person on the other end takes action. For the depressed person, nothing changes until they take action. For the overeater, nothing changes until they take action. For the inactive, nothing changes until they take action. For the person with an ED, nothing changes until they take action.

Quite often assistance requires telling a person what they don't want to hear in a way that doesn't fit their world view. Every day there are new threads here started by people deluding themselves into a world where their actions are safe, healthy, and effective in the long term when the fact is they are risking their health, frequently with foolish choices. Some people play word games and dance around issues, others make direct statements that address the behaviors and choices.

I agree with the OP. You do need thick skin around here sometimes.

An ignore feature would be nice. Anyone who's on your ignore list wont have the posts visible to ther person who ignored them.

There are ways around the nastiness, though, for the most part. For starters, make friends who are kind and supportive then ignore most of the rest of the community.

There is an ignore feature. By anyone's username there's a square with a triangle in it. Click on that - you can send them a PM, go to their profile or ignore user.

Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.

I think people are not understanding "external locus of control." Maybe you need to look it up. Beating up such a person or a person with chronic depression (situational depression can be different) just isn't the way to go. And certainly celebrating the fact s/he has deactivated an account and stating "our work is done here" is just heinous in my opinion. It was the joy at driving a person away that really shocked me, as if it were that person's mission to make a person so miserable that s/he gave up in despair. Admit what you will, but to me that fits the definition of bullying and shouldn't be tolerated here.

Maybe that was my fault. I guess I am losing. My mistake is thinking that weight would be falling off of me because I have so much to lose. But I guess 7 pounds in less than a month isn't bad. And that's 7 pounds with me not eating at my best, so that's my fault.

But thank you kindly for the links, I will look through all of them!

FIFY - I changed your paragraph a bit. Read this and let me know now how you feel about your weight loss.

I am losing. I understand weight loss isn't linear, some weeks I'll lose 2 lbs, some 1, and some none. That's okay. I'll stick with it because I am losing and that's awesome. Losing 7 pounds in less than a month is awesome progress. And that's 7 pounds with me not eating at my best, so that's also pretty awesome.

Losing any amount is better than not losing. Maintaining should also be celebrated because you are not gaining any weight.

Remember weight loss (that's lasting and for your life) is about moderation not deprivation. You have to be able to live your life while losing weight. So that's why so many say it's about lifestyle changes. I won't say you not eating your best is a mistake, I'd say maybe it was a little detour. I took a 4 month detour that I was very mad at myself about (I had lost 50 lbs...I gained 21 back in those 4 months), I was down on myself until I said enough, that's not getting me anywhere. I got back on the wagon, but doing it differently and stronger than before.

I started lifting heavy things (if you haven't started strength training, please look into it. You want to try to save some lean muscle while losing weight). I started 7 weeks ago, I've lost inches everywhere. 2" in my leg!

Read those links, see what makes sense. If you have any questions let me know. I'll do my best to try to help.

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Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.

I am now convinced you're trolling in the deep

^this...and high level stuff too.

I'm not even mad. That's amazing.

show previous quotes

Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.

I am now convinced you're trolling in the deep

^this...and high level stuff too.

I'm not even mad. That's amazing.

It's a legitimate observation--we are known by the company we keep and by the people we admire. How is that trolling?

It just bad manners.
If you can't be nice or helpful, don't write anything.

But honestly... some people are just so dumb.

show previous quotes

Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.

I am now convinced you're trolling in the deep

^this...and high level stuff too.

I'm not even mad. That's amazing.

Troof. I almost feel like I could learn a thing or two in next level trolling here.

show previous quotes

Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.

I am now convinced you're trolling in the deep

^this...and high level stuff too.

I'm not even mad. That's amazing.

It's a legitimate observation--we are known by the company we keep and by the people we admire. How is that trolling?

Do you know if I admire them? No. You don't know anything about me. I might have just found a gif of 2 guys drinking tea or coffee saying Bravo! Well Done! So you know nothing about me. Do I find them funny, yes, they are comedians who have TV shows on a...wait for it...wait for it...COMEDY network. That usually mean that things will be funny. I like to laugh. Laughing is better than always being so upset/offended at every time I feel slighted in life. Life is to short to always focus on the negative, as many people love to do. I've done this in the past and am working hard on changing that. Some thrive off negative and want to only focus on that, and perpetuate it. That's life.

I admire people like Major D!ck Winters, Wild Bill Guarnere, Babe Heffron, my grandfather, father and brother. I admire my niece. She's 4.5 - would that then make me immature and a child since I admire a child?

All this talk about how "supportive" we all should be just begs for clarification:

One person's idea of support may be "Everybody slips up once in a while. Don't beat yourself up. Just log the whole pizza and call it a day".

Another person's idea of support "Do you have any idea how much sodium is in that pizza? When you wake up tomorrow and the scale says you have gained 5 pounds--it's not because you gained 5 pounds of fat--it's water retention. So log that pizza, drink some more water, learn from it and move on".

Don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather have the 2nd person giving me advice personally.

Well said.

Kid gloves have been mentioned by others in this thread and I guess "no sugarcoating" could be used to describe the second option, too. That's how I prefer it and that's how most of the contents is delivered in this forum.

If you want to hear that longer response in an accusatory tone, of course it's possible, but hey you know what? You can also picture the poster delivering it with a huge smile and a flower in their hand. Your choice. Most, who whine in these threads, don't seem to go for the smile version, though.

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Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.

I think people are not understanding "external locus of control." Maybe you need to look it up. Beating up such a person or a person with chronic depression (situational depression can be different) just isn't the way to go. And certainly celebrating the fact s/he has deactivated an account and stating "our work is done here" is just heinous in my opinion. It was the joy at driving a person away that really shocked me, as if it were that person's mission to make a person so miserable that s/he gave up in despair. Admit what you will, but to me that fits the definition of bullying and shouldn't be tolerated here.

They are most definitely NOT the most hateful people on television.

I deal with depression EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. No one can help me with that but myself. I had to want to get help in order to change. Just like with weight loss. The person has to want the change. My roommate is a perfect example, I love her, it kills me to see her so depressed every day. I did help to get her to go to counseling and I know it'll take time, but it's still hard to see her suffer every single day. I talk to her about it, about maybe she should get out of the house, go for a walk, not sleep so much. She doesn't want to. She's not there yet. She's not ready to make the change. Someone has to want help in order to be willing to receive it.

And where in ANY of my posts did I bring up anything about the people deactivating, saying that it was a good thing or even bring up that situation? I didn't. So not sure why you're bringing that up when I posted a gif in response to someone else posting something and you decided you should delete all of what was said and just come at me. I agree that bullying shouldn't be tolerated, however, that word gets tossed around like it means nothing. It's going to start turning into the boy who cried wolf because it's used so much that soon, real bullying will be hard to identify because of that.

I don't know of the thread you speak of. If I see someone has posted they are depressed, I always advise them to seek counseling. I will speak of my own experience about depression and weight loss. No one but them can make the changes.

If someone is depressed they have to want help, they have to want to change. Nothing anyone says on a message board can make that happen. They have to want to. I know, because that was me. Every. Single. Day. I lost weight before, but never got my depression under control. I gained it back. I lost weight in the last 2 years, and got help for my depression because I was finally ready for it and I wanted to change.

I never said they were the two most hateful people. Neither did I say that you expressed joy at the people deactivating their accounts. That was said in response to the lawyer thread, which was under discussion when this thread was about the real topic and not just a place to justify bad behavior. Please check your outrage at the door, since it's based on an inaccurate statement and internalizing what's been said here.

I had chronic depression for years, so I know whereof I speak. I couldn't afford treatment, since the free clinic here doesn't handle that and no one local handles charging on a sliding scale. That's one of the reasons I want to finish my counseling psych degree (with a Christian focus) and help an underserved community. There are too many people being told they need to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get over it" when they don't have the resources to do it. It is possibly true that nothing said on a forum can make a person seek help, but cruelty from people on a forum has, in the past, been proven to drive people to kill themselves. What people say to others can and does make a difference in their lives.

However, depression is *very* different from locus of control, although loc can be a part of depression and changing a person's loc can help in the treatment of depression. AGAIN, it it not helpful to berate a person with an external locus of control. They honestly don't see how they can make their own changes--the world is conspiring against them and they are adrift at sea. It's not mental illness--it's just a defeatist way of perceiving reality, for lack of a better term. It is impossible to make a person with an eloc better by telling them how stupid they are and that only they are responsible for their lives. That just reinforces the idea that the world is against them. Keep in mind I have no love for the touchy-feely humanistic therapies--I'm primarily a believer in cognitive-behavioral therapy, which does use bluntness and a direct approach. HOWEVER, there is appropriate behavior and inappropriate behavior and many times when people say they are being blunt here they are just bordering on being cruel. The point someone made about chickens and corn is a good one, especially in the case of someone who can't see how s/he can affect the things controlling his or her own life.

Anyway, to wrap it up, back when I was moderating forums a lot of the people here would have gotten warnings and then gotten the boot. There's no need to have nasty people in the community, since all they ultimately do is tear it apart. And no, gifs aren't cute, funny, or leaventing to the person who ted the thread being derailed, especially if they're chosen to humiliate that person. Most of the time they're just, yes, mean.

show previous quotes

Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.

I think people are not understanding "external locus of control." Maybe you need to look it up. Beating up such a person or a person with chronic depression (situational depression can be different) just isn't the way to go. And certainly celebrating the fact s/he has deactivated an account and stating "our work is done here" is just heinous in my opinion. It was the joy at driving a person away that really shocked me, as if it were that person's mission to make a person so miserable that s/he gave up in despair. Admit what you will, but to me that fits the definition of bullying and shouldn't be tolerated here.

They are most definitely NOT the most hateful people on television.

I deal with depression EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. No one can help me with that but myself. I had to want to get help in order to change. Just like with weight loss. The person has to want the change. My roommate is a perfect example, I love her, it kills me to see her so depressed every day. I did help to get her to go to counseling and I know it'll take time, but it's still hard to see her suffer every single day. I talk to her about it, about maybe she should get out of the house, go for a walk, not sleep so much. She doesn't want to. She's not there yet. She's not ready to make the change. Someone has to want help in order to be willing to receive it.

And where in ANY of my posts did I bring up anything about the people deactivating, saying that it was a good thing or even bring up that situation? I didn't. So not sure why you're bringing that up when I posted a gif in response to someone else posting something and you decided you should delete all of what was said and just come at me. I agree that bullying shouldn't be tolerated, however, that word gets tossed around like it means nothing. It's going to start turning into the boy who cried wolf because it's used so much that soon, real bullying will be hard to identify because of that.

I don't know of the thread you speak of. If I see someone has posted they are depressed, I always advise them to seek counseling. I will speak of my own experience about depression and weight loss. No one but them can make the changes.

If someone is depressed they have to want help, they have to want to change. Nothing anyone says on a message board can make that happen. They have to want to. I know, because that was me. Every. Single. Day. I lost weight before, but never got my depression under control. I gained it back. I lost weight in the last 2 years, and got help for my depression because I was finally ready for it and I wanted to change.

I never said they were the two most hateful people. Neither did I say that you expressed joy at the people deactivating their accounts. That was said in response to the lawyer thread, which was under discussion when this thread was about the real topic and not just a place to justify bad behavior. Please check your outrage at the door, since it's based on an inaccurate statement and internalizing what's been said here.

I had chronic depression for years, so I know whereof I speak. I couldn't afford treatment, since the free clinic here doesn't handle that and no one local handles charging on a sliding scale. That's one of the reasons I want to finish my counseling psych degree (with a Christian focus) and help an underserved community. There are too many people being told they need to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get over it" when they don't have the resources to do it. It is possibly true that nothing said on a forum can make a person seek help, but cruelty from people on a forum has, in the past, been proven to drive people to kill themselves. What people say to others can and does make a difference in their lives.

However, depression is *very* different from locus of control, although loc can be a part of depression and changing a person's loc can help in the treatment of depression. AGAIN, it it not helpful to berate a person with an external locus of control. They honestly don't see how they can make their own changes--the world is conspiring against them and they are adrift at sea. It's not mental illness--it's just a defeatist way of perceiving reality, for lack of a better term. It is impossible to make a person with an eloc better by telling them how stupid they are and that only they are responsible for their lives. That just reinforces the idea that the world is against them. Keep in mind I have no love for the touchy-feely humanistic therapies--I'm primarily a believer in cognitive-behavioral therapy, which does use bluntness and a direct approach. HOWEVER, there is appropriate behavior and inappropriate behavior and many times when people say they are being blunt here they are just bordering on being cruel. The point someone made about chickens and corn is a good one, especially in the case of someone who can't see how s/he can affect the things controlling his or her own life.

Anyway, to wrap it up, back when I was moderating forums a lot of the people here would have gotten warnings and then gotten the boot. There's no need to have nasty people in the community, since all they ultimately do is tear it apart. And no, gifs aren't cute, funny, or leaventing to the person who ted the thread being derailed, especially if they're chosen to humiliate that person. Most of the time they're just, yes, mean.

I would liken the point you're making to stating that MFP advice is bad because it would be largely inappropriate for someone with an eating disorder. There is indeed an assumption that most or all people reading the forum are somewhat mentally and emotionally balanced. It seems a stretch to have to assume they may not be. Perhaps something should be written in the guidelines taking one stance or not

So, after 15 pages of the same arguments over and over, has anything changed? No. In a few days, another thread with similar intent, will be posted and it will all start again. Because we can only change ourselves.

I never said they were the two most hateful people. Neither did I say that you expressed joy at the people deactivating their accounts. That was said in response to the lawyer thread, which was under discussion when this thread was about the real topic and not just a place to justify bad behavior. Please check your outrage at the door, since it's based on an inaccurate statement and internalizing what's been said here.

I had chronic depression for years, so I know whereof I speak. I couldn't afford treatment, since the free clinic here doesn't handle that and no one local handles charging on a sliding scale. That's one of the reasons I want to finish my counseling psych degree (with a Christian focus) and help an underserved community. There are too many people being told they need to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get over it" when they don't have the resources to do it. It is possibly true that nothing said on a forum can make a person seek help, but cruelty from people on a forum has, in the past, been proven to drive people to kill themselves. What people say to others can and does make a difference in their lives.

However, depression is *very* different from locus of control, although loc can be a part of depression and changing a person's loc can help in the treatment of depression. AGAIN, it it not helpful to berate a person with an external locus of control. They honestly don't see how they can make their own changes--the world is conspiring against them and they are adrift at sea. It's not mental illness--it's just a defeatist way of perceiving reality, for lack of a better term. It is impossible to make a person with an eloc better by telling them how stupid they are and that only they are responsible for their lives. That just reinforces the idea that the world is against them. Keep in mind I have no love for the touchy-feely humanistic therapies--I'm primarily a believer in cognitive-behavioral therapy, which does use bluntness and a direct approach. HOWEVER, there is appropriate behavior and inappropriate behavior and many times when people say they are being blunt here they are just bordering on being cruel. The point someone made about chickens and corn is a good one, especially in the case of someone who can't see how s/he can affect the things controlling his or her own life.

Anyway, to wrap it up, back when I was moderating forums a lot of the people here would have gotten warnings and then gotten the boot. There's no need to have nasty people in the community, since all they ultimately do is tear it apart. And no, gifs aren't cute, funny, or leaventing to the person who ted the thread being derailed, especially if they're chosen to humiliate that person. Most of the time they're just, yes, mean.

Are you currently providing direct service to people dealing with mental health issues?