Tips for a ROOKIE REGISTERED for a FULL MARATHON
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I think we're seeing more misinformation about the best way to effectively train than a real personality failure.
It's like somebody who looks at the MFP set-up and thinks "I can lose 2 pounds a week!" not realizing that it's not ideal for their situation.
the person that signs up and tries to go the wrong route just doesn't know better, and that's not a failing at all. we're all here to learn. i didn't create an MFP account because i knew everything, I created it because I needed help to lose weight.
but her situation isn't just "i didn't know better". hers is the equivalent of the new MFP'er setting up for 2 pounds per week loss when they only have 10 pounds to go, starting a thread asking for advice, and then getting 150 replies from people that have successfully reached goal weight that say "set your goal for half a pound" and despite all that good advice, tells the people that they're all haterz and she's gonna stick with the 2 pound per week goal anyway and we can all support her gurney or get out. that's the character flaw. getting good info and then willy nilly discarding it for no good reason.
i mean, who WOULDN"T want to lose 2 pounds of fat per week. hell, how bout 5? but once it's explained to you why it's not a great idea, then you back it down a bit. so if the next thread by someone says they haven't run in ever, but they want to run an ultramarathon 6 months from now, what do we say to them? "Go head grrrrrrl!" seems to be the only acceptable answer.0 -
I think we're seeing more misinformation about the best way to effectively train than a real personality failure.
It's like somebody who looks at the MFP set-up and thinks "I can lose 2 pounds a week!" not realizing that it's not ideal for their situation.
the person that signs up and tries to go the wrong route just doesn't know better, and that's not a failing at all. we're all here to learn. i didn't create an MFP account because i knew everything, I created it because I needed help to lose weight.
but her situation isn't just "i didn't know better". hers is the equivalent of the new MFP'er setting up for 2 pounds per week loss when they only have 10 pounds to go, starting a thread asking for advice, and then getting 150 replies from people that have successfully reached goal weight that say "set your goal for half a pound" and despite all that good advice, tells the people that they're all haterz and she's gonna stick with the 2 pound per week goal anyway and we can all support her gurney or get out. that's the character flaw. getting good info and then willy nilly discarding it for no good reason.
i mean, who WOULDN"T want to lose 2 pounds of fat per week. hell, how bout 5? but once it's explained to you why it's not a great idea, then you back it down a bit. so if the next thread by someone says they haven't run in ever, but they want to run an ultramarathon 6 months from now, what do we say to them? "Go head grrrrrrl!" seems to be the only acceptable answer.
I agree with Dav.
I certainly is possible to go from zero to full marathon in a year but the likeliest road that is both successful and enjoyable is one that reduces the risk of injury and burn-out. There are specific methods and ideas around that that might work - and "winging it" isn't the best one.
Personally, I'd be concerned about going beyond a marathon goal - nothing sucks more than getting into something and having to give up because of induced injury.
The idea "I'm going to do this even if I have to crawl" is great. I've been there - some of my "hold my beer, my papers are in order" adventures are of the same mentality. And if you tried to talk me out of them I'd probably give you the short rope but ...
... But, it's always better to think, "I'm doing this - even if I have to crawl - I'd rather do it injury free and have fun doing it." Good prep is staged and involves risk management.0 -
I hope you have a few thousand dollars set aside for all those office visits with your sports med doc and physical therapy. (Coming from someone in good physical shape and isn't overweight, who injured herself running from doing too much, too soon, against the advice of everyone else, because I thought that I was just so special and dedicated and none of that applied to be, and my "I believe in myself, wheeeee!" attitude somehow trumped my body's actual limitations)
Seriously, injuries are expensive. Even the minor ones. And you know you're setting yourself up for injury.
From a purely practical point of view, be financially prepared.0 -
I think we're seeing more misinformation about the best way to effectively train than a real personality failure.
It's like somebody who looks at the MFP set-up and thinks "I can lose 2 pounds a week!" not realizing that it's not ideal for their situation.
the person that signs up and tries to go the wrong route just doesn't know better, and that's not a failing at all. we're all here to learn. i didn't create an MFP account because i knew everything, I created it because I needed help to lose weight.
but her situation isn't just "i didn't know better". hers is the equivalent of the new MFP'er setting up for 2 pounds per week loss when they only have 10 pounds to go, starting a thread asking for advice, and then getting 150 replies from people that have successfully reached goal weight that say "set your goal for half a pound" and despite all that good advice, tells the people that they're all haterz and she's gonna stick with the 2 pound per week goal anyway and we can all support her gurney or get out. that's the character flaw. getting good info and then willy nilly discarding it for no good reason.
i mean, who WOULDN"T want to lose 2 pounds of fat per week. hell, how bout 5? but once it's explained to you why it's not a great idea, then you back it down a bit. so if the next thread by someone says they haven't run in ever, but they want to run an ultramarathon 6 months from now, what do we say to them? "Go head grrrrrrl!" seems to be the only acceptable answer.
I'd say the equivalent would be maybe 50 pounds to lose. 2 pounds a week isn't a good idea...but it's kind of on the edge.
And the next guy who wanted to run an ultra? I'd tell him that the fastest way to get there is to back off for now. Take it slow and let his body adapt. Learn to love running. Listen to CarsonRuns. I'd provide him my experience from when I was at the point he is at (slow down, s-l-o-w d-o-w-n).
I wouldn't tell him that walking after doing the Couch to 5k program was going to result in injury.
The bottom line is that you can kind of wait it out with new runners. Running is going to give them perspective on running. If they aren't going too far, too fast, too soon, that first 8 mile run is going to be a lesson in distance all by itself.0 -
The bottom line is that you can kind of wait it out with new runners. Running is going to give them perspective on running. If they aren't going too far, too fast, too soon, that first 8 mile run is going to be a lesson in distance all by itself.
Oh goodness, this. I had been running short distances for a while, worked my way through a 10k plan, and then went without a plan for a while and was just trying to add distance. I don't even know how many tries it took me to get past 8 miles. I could do 7 no problem, but it took a solid month for me to get past that 8 mile mark. I had the same problem again at 11.5, and couldn't get past it until I HAD to get past it in a half marathon.0 -
I have completed 4 full marathons, about 25 half marathons and several other races. Find a training group or a partner to train with you. You must have good shoes. Pay attention to refueling and maintaining hydration.:happy:
Great advice!:)0 -
The bottom line is that you can kind of wait it out with new runners. Running is going to give them perspective on running. If they aren't going too far, too fast, too soon, that first 8 mile run is going to be a lesson in distance all by itself.
Oh goodness, this. I had been running short distances for a while, worked my way through a 10k plan, and then went without a plan for a while and was just trying to add distance. I don't even know how many tries it took me to get past 8 miles. I could do 7 no problem, but it took a solid month for me to get past that 8 mile mark. I had the same problem again at 11.5, and couldn't get past it until I HAD to get past it in a half marathon.
When I finished C25k, I felt like I could run forever. I did a plan and all of a sudden was running 6 miles - no problem. Signed up for a half and learned EXACTLY how far forever was: 8 miles. Every long run after that it was (longest distance I had to run) - 1 mile.0 -
I finished my first (and so far only) marathon in October 2013. I used Hal Higdon's Novice 1 training program (I highly recommend that you find and follow a training program that works for you, but one that includes long runs on the weekends). The Novice 1 program was sufficient to get me across the finish line in 5 hours, but if you are looking to do better than just cross the finish line, you will want to up the ante with weekly mileage. The more miles you can pack into a week, the better, especially in the final few weeks leading up to your two-week taper (you will want to ease back on the miles and give your body a chance to recover two weeks prior to your race).
Do your miles SLOWLY, with the exception of one or two speed workouts per week (interval training works well to improve your speed). If you overdo it in your first weeks of training, you risk injury, which could put you out of commission. You need to build up a solid base for running.
I also recommend that if you have never done a race before, or at least a long race (like a 10k or half marathon) register for and complete a few of those before your marathon so that you know what a race feels like. You don't want your first race to be a marathon -- you need some experience.
One more thing -- you are doing a May race, which could be HOT -- carry your own water and gels so you can keep your body fueled and hydrated during your long runs and on race day. You might want to invest in a running belt (you can find them at any running or sporting goods store). Also, the tips about shoes are right on -- you will want to get a size up from what you are used to because your feet swell, especially on long runs. You also might want to pick up some KT tape (for sore spots and potential blister areas) and body glide to prevent chafing.
Okay, one more and I think this is the last one . . . get a Garmin to track your miles and your progress, or at least join dailymile.com or runkeeper -- it will help keep you on track if you log your miles.
I hope this helps! Good luck!0 -
One... I applaud you for taking a step and making a big commitment. That's awesome.
Two... just because you don't like the answers- doesn't mean you need to get snarky with people trying to help you.Sure boss. To make you happy. You are right. You are the all knowing. Thank you for gracing this forum with your knowledge. LMAO. You are soooooooooo right, I mean heaven forbid that I move after I run the C25k day, because ANY activity after, before, on the same day as..would just be crazy.
Because you're missing the point.
But you don't have room for tinkering. You've committed to a big undertaking, that requires training- specific training.
You've chosen to do a few programs. But you are already saying you aren't doing the program- you seriously do NOT have room for not doing the program if you want to succeed. The program exists for a reason- follow the program.
If it says rest. then rest. You're GOING to need it. You might not feel like it now- but you will- so get in the habit of resting when it says rest.
If that means foam rolling for you- then roll.
Light yoga and stretching? Going for an easy walk with the dog- sure...
doing nothing on the couch but eating doritos and drinking a cold one- go for it.
REST. don't make up extra work. You don't need it.0 -
The bottom line is that you can kind of wait it out with new runners. Running is going to give them perspective on running. If they aren't going too far, too fast, too soon, that first 8 mile run is going to be a lesson in distance all by itself.
Oh goodness, this. I had been running short distances for a while, worked my way through a 10k plan, and then went without a plan for a while and was just trying to add distance. I don't even know how many tries it took me to get past 8 miles. I could do 7 no problem, but it took a solid month for me to get past that 8 mile mark. I had the same problem again at 11.5, and couldn't get past it until I HAD to get past it in a half marathon.
I just completed my first 18 mile run this past sunday. It's in the lead up to my first marathon after taking up the sport in 2012. 18 miles seemed daunting when I saw it on the training schedule as equally daunting as the 20 I'm doing in 2 weeks or finally the actual marathon but since I've been running regularly for 2 years now it's an effort but it's not anywhere near above my head.
I'm getting excited but I'm staying mostly to plan. There's been a few random races above and beyond my training but there's only one left between now and my marathon and it's a 10K on a day where the training schedule calls for 5 miles so not a huge deviation.
When I started running I went wholehog not knowing anything and never asking for advice. I got a scortching case of planar faciatias. Everyone here is giving you quality advice because we've all made or at least seen the over enthusiastic mistakes beginning runners make and we're hoping to help you avoid the pain.0 -
One... I applaud you for taking a step and making a big commitment. That's awesome.
Two... just because you don't like the answers- doesn't mean you need to get snarky with people trying to help you.Sure boss. To make you happy. You are right. You are the all knowing. Thank you for gracing this forum with your knowledge. LMAO. You are soooooooooo right, I mean heaven forbid that I move after I run the C25k day, because ANY activity after, before, on the same day as..would just be crazy.
Because you're missing the point.
But you don't have room for tinkering. You've committed to a big undertaking, that requires training- specific training.
You've chosen to do a few programs. But you are already saying you aren't doing the program- you seriously do NOT have room for not doing the program if you want to succeed. The program exists for a reason- follow the program.
If it says rest. then rest. You're GOING to need it. You might not feel like it now- but you will- so get in the habit of resting when it says rest.
If that means foam rolling for you- then roll.
Light yoga and stretching? Going for an easy walk with the dog- sure...
doing nothing on the couch but eating doritos and drinking a cold one- go for it.
REST. don't make up extra work. You don't need it.
Rest days are where you actually reap the benefits of your efforts. Take them. As said above, if you can't stay still go for a walk, but skipping rest days isn't the greatest of ideas. My buddy just started c25k a few weeks ago and wanted to run a 4th or 5th day that week. We all told him no and he did anyway and couldn't get though the next week and had to do the next week a second time before moving on. He now understands the power of the rest day.0 -
Rest days are where you actually reap the benefits of your efforts. Take them. As said above, if you can't stay still go for a walk, but skipping rest days isn't the greatest of ideas. My buddy just started c25k a few weeks ago and wanted to run a 4th or 5th day that week. We all told him no and he did anyway and couldn't get though the next week and had to do the next week a second time before moving on. He now understands the power of the rest day.
yuppers.
I didn't realize how badly I needed them till I got on an intermediate/advanced lifting program. The first week was a joke- I hated it- felt like a waste of time- I wanted to do more- but I didn't. Fast forward 10-15 days and holy ballz.... every second I wasn't lifting I wanted to be sitting down or sleeping- or eating.
Rest. You seriously need it- take as much of it as you can get.0 -
Rest days are where you actually reap the benefits of your efforts. Take them. As said above, if you can't stay still go for a walk, but skipping rest days isn't the greatest of ideas. My buddy just started c25k a few weeks ago and wanted to run a 4th or 5th day that week. We all told him no and he did anyway and couldn't get though the next week and had to do the next week a second time before moving on. He now understands the power of the rest day.
yuppers.
I didn't realize how badly I needed them till I got on an intermediate/advanced lifting program. The first week was a joke- I hated it- felt like a waste of time- I wanted to do more- but I didn't. Fast forward 10-15 days and holy ballz.... every second I wasn't lifting I wanted to be sitting down or sleeping- or eating.
Rest. You seriously need it- take as much of it as you can get.
My understanding is that she is taking rest days, just adding more of a walk on the days that she's doing her run. Most running programs suggest at least one solid rest day a week (stretching, foam rolling, sitting on the couch) but doing cross training the other non-run days.0 -
I think we're seeing more misinformation about the best way to effectively train than a real personality failure.
It's like somebody who looks at the MFP set-up and thinks "I can lose 2 pounds a week!" not realizing that it's not ideal for their situation.
the person that signs up and tries to go the wrong route just doesn't know better, and that's not a failing at all. we're all here to learn. i didn't create an MFP account because i knew everything, I created it because I needed help to lose weight.
but her situation isn't just "i didn't know better". hers is the equivalent of the new MFP'er setting up for 2 pounds per week loss when they only have 10 pounds to go, starting a thread asking for advice, and then getting 150 replies from people that have successfully reached goal weight that say "set your goal for half a pound" and despite all that good advice, tells the people that they're all haterz and she's gonna stick with the 2 pound per week goal anyway and we can all support her gurney or get out. that's the character flaw. getting good info and then willy nilly discarding it for no good reason.
i mean, who WOULDN"T want to lose 2 pounds of fat per week. hell, how bout 5? but once it's explained to you why it's not a great idea, then you back it down a bit. so if the next thread by someone says they haven't run in ever, but they want to run an ultramarathon 6 months from now, what do we say to them? "Go head grrrrrrl!" seems to be the only acceptable answer.
I'd say the equivalent would be maybe 50 pounds to lose. 2 pounds a week isn't a good idea...but it's kind of on the edge.
And the next guy who wanted to run an ultra? I'd tell him that the fastest way to get there is to back off for now. Take it slow and let his body adapt. Learn to love running. Listen to CarsonRuns. I'd provide him my experience from when I was at the point he is at (slow down, s-l-o-w d-o-w-n).
I wouldn't tell him that walking after doing the Couch to 5k program was going to result in injury.
The bottom line is that you can kind of wait it out with new runners. Running is going to give them perspective on running. If they aren't going too far, too fast, too soon, that first 8 mile run is going to be a lesson in distance all by itself.
It isn't the walking. It's the pattern of behavior that's indicative of the issue. Being snarky isn't a problem. Not listening to advice isn't a problem. Going off plan isn't a problem. Biting off more than you can chew isn't a problem. Any of those by itself and I'd be in her side. But combine all those and you're gonna have a GIGANTIC problem.0 -
When I started running I went wholehog not knowing anything and never asking for advice. I got a scortching case of planar faciatias. Everyone here is giving you quality advice because we've all made or at least seen the over enthusiastic mistakes beginning runners make and we're hoping to help you avoid the pain.
This is why I'm not overly concerned about this goal. These things tend to take care of themselves. Personally I think there's little to no chance of this working without an injury. Not in that time frame. tendons, joints, muscles, ligaments. They all need time and training to handle that much distance at once. What do I know? I only took 5 months off for an irritated achilles. Overtraining is a myth.0 -
I finished my first (and so far only) marathon in October 2013. I used Hal Higdon's Novice 1 training program (I highly recommend that you find and follow a training program that works for you, but one that includes long runs on the weekends). The Novice 1 program was sufficient to get me across the finish line in 5 hours, but if you are looking to do better than just cross the finish line, you will want to up the ante with weekly mileage. The more miles you can pack into a week, the better, especially in the final few weeks leading up to your two-week taper (you will want to ease back on the miles and give your body a chance to recover two weeks prior to your race).
Do your miles SLOWLY, with the exception of one or two speed workouts per week (interval training works well to improve your speed). If you overdo it in your first weeks of training, you risk injury, which could put you out of commission. You need to build up a solid base for running.
I also recommend that if you have never done a race before, or at least a long race (like a 10k or half marathon) register for and complete a few of those before your marathon so that you know what a race feels like. You don't want your first race to be a marathon -- you need some experience.
One more thing -- you are doing a May race, which could be HOT -- carry your own water and gels so you can keep your body fueled and hydrated during your long runs and on race day. You might want to invest in a running belt (you can find them at any running or sporting goods store). Also, the tips about shoes are right on -- you will want to get a size up from what you are used to because your feet swell, especially on long runs. You also might want to pick up some KT tape (for sore spots and potential blister areas) and body glide to prevent chafing.
Okay, one more and I think this is the last one . . . get a Garmin to track your miles and your progress, or at least join dailymile.com or runkeeper -- it will help keep you on track if you log your miles.
I hope this helps! Good luck!
Awesome job on that Marathon! The Marathon im doing is in San Diego and the temperature is pretty much the same year round (70's) , except for those few days. I have a garmin watch now , just havent used it, will def use it once my miles go over 5. I will be doing some races along the way to get me set up for the whole feel of a race.
Thanks again. Awesome!0 -
When I started running I went wholehog not knowing anything and never asking for advice. I got a scortching case of planar faciatias. Everyone here is giving you quality advice because we've all made or at least seen the over enthusiastic mistakes beginning runners make and we're hoping to help you avoid the pain.
This is why I'm not overly concerned about this goal. These things tend to take care of themselves. Personally I think there's little to no chance of this working without an injury. Not in that time frame. tendons, joints, muscles, ligaments. They all need time and training to handle that much distance at once. What do I know? I only took 5 months off for an irritated achilles. Overtraining is a myth.
I certainly know nothing about any of this. I still think it was just a coincidence that as a relatively fit guy new to running in the middle of c25k, I deviated from the plan and ran a challenging 5-mile trail loop two days in a row (because "it was fun") and soon thereafter developed a horrible case of plantar fasciitis that took >4 months from which to recover (and then struggled with it in the *other* foot for several months even while sticking to the remarkably conservative plan).
But all of this anecdotal jibberjabber be damned...
GO BIG OR GO HOME!0 -
So you're not following the plan to a T ... read your post then compare it to C25K. You've once again claimed to be doing things "with C25K" that are not part of it.
Sure boss. To make you happy. You are right. You are the all knowing. Thank you for gracing this forum with your knowledge. LMAO. You are soooooooooo right, I mean heaven forbid that I move after I run the C25k day, because ANY activity after, before, on the same day as..would just be crazy.
I agree. A lot of C25kers have dogs. That's a daily walk before/after the run program. If it's something you are used to doing, it's NBD.
it's not that a 30 min walk is crazy hard and killing her recovery. it's that she's got a short window of time to execute a plan and she's given herself ZERO margin for error or injury...and here we are at week 2 and she's already veered off course. it's more that it's indicative of a personal flaw where she refuses to listen to reason and then won't follow plans that have lead to success for others. if she's already winging it in week 2, what's she going to be doing 5 months from now?
having a personal flaw isn't a big deal. we all have them and i certainly have mine. but not recognizing them and adapting strategies that minimize them is a route that leads to failure more often than not. but hey, more fun to keep blaming things on all the haterz.
I've stayed out of this for a long time, but I am also your friend and watching you. I want to say this publically so these goiod folks can potential add in.
This "Zero Error" is why I believe the C25K is not the best. It is trying to ramp you up to a longer continuous run. then if you go with a transition to 10K it will be trying to ramp you op to a 45 minute continuous run = are trying for a longer and longer continuous run.
A C2Marathon plan graduates your continuous run over a loooooong period of time. You can run a 13 minute pace single mile, and walk a minute, then run a mile/ walk a minute, and do that Marathon within 6:30!
but if you keep working to lengthen your continuous run, you will experience IT overuse, hence a knee twang is right around the corner.
It takes a few years to "run" a marathon. But you can finish one, and feel good, and have fun.
doing a c25K, then a transition to 10K, then transition to half is not the way to go, with your goal in mind.
Couch to Marathon is your best bet.
Todd0 -
One... I applaud you for taking a step and making a big commitment. That's awesome.
Two... just because you don't like the answers- doesn't mean you need to get snarky with people trying to help you.Sure boss. To make you happy. You are right. You are the all knowing. Thank you for gracing this forum with your knowledge. LMAO. You are soooooooooo right, I mean heaven forbid that I move after I run the C25k day, because ANY activity after, before, on the same day as..would just be crazy.
Because you're missing the point.
But you don't have room for tinkering. You've committed to a big undertaking, that requires training- specific training.
You've chosen to do a few programs. But you are already saying you aren't doing the program- you seriously do NOT have room for not doing the program if you want to succeed. The program exists for a reason- follow the program.
If it says rest. then rest. You're GOING to need it. You might not feel like it now- but you will- so get in the habit of resting when it says rest.
If that means foam rolling for you- then roll.
Light yoga and stretching? Going for an easy walk with the dog- sure...
doing nothing on the couch but eating doritos and drinking a cold one- go for it.
REST. don't make up extra work. You don't need it.
You are right, but I get repettive snarkiness..its like if you dont like what im doing get off the forum. Noone needs to read the same 4 comments from the same person.
The only reason im walking after the c25k program is because Im used to doing it. I work out after work..and for the last year this is what ive done. The only thing that has now changed is incorporating c25k for 30 min, but I totally understand that its going to get alot harder and Ill need that extra energy.
Thanks again 0 -
..and this I understand. I will look over this and re-evaluate. Thanks Todd!So you're not following the plan to a T ... read your post then compare it to C25K. You've once again claimed to be doing things "with C25K" that are not part of it.
Sure boss. To make you happy. You are right. You are the all knowing. Thank you for gracing this forum with your knowledge. LMAO. You are soooooooooo right, I mean heaven forbid that I move after I run the C25k day, because ANY activity after, before, on the same day as..would just be crazy.
I agree. A lot of C25kers have dogs. That's a daily walk before/after the run program. If it's something you are used to doing, it's NBD.
it's not that a 30 min walk is crazy hard and killing her recovery. it's that she's got a short window of time to execute a plan and she's given herself ZERO margin for error or injury...and here we are at week 2 and she's already veered off course. it's more that it's indicative of a personal flaw where she refuses to listen to reason and then won't follow plans that have lead to success for others. if she's already winging it in week 2, what's she going to be doing 5 months from now?
having a personal flaw isn't a big deal. we all have them and i certainly have mine. but not recognizing them and adapting strategies that minimize them is a route that leads to failure more often than not. but hey, more fun to keep blaming things on all the haterz.
I've stayed out of this for a long time, but I am also your friend and watching you. I want to say this publically so these goiod folks can potential add in.
This "Zero Error" is why I believe the C25K is not the best. It is trying to ramp you up to a longer continuous run. then if you go with a transition to 10K it will be trying to ramp you op to a 45 minute continuous run = are trying for a longer and longer continuous run.
A C2Marathon plan graduates your continuous run over a loooooong period of time. You can run a 13 minute pace single mile, and walk a minute, then run a mile/ walk a minute, and do that Marathon within 6:30!
but if you keep working to lengthen your continuous run, you will experience IT overuse, hence a knee twang is right around the corner.
It takes a few years to "run" a marathon. But you can finish one, and feel good, and have fun.
doing a c25K, then a transition to 10K, then transition to half is not the way to go, with your goal in mind.
Couch to Marathon is your best bet.
Todd0
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