Why Aspartame Isn't Scary

I will admit at some point I just started skimming this thread, I'll go back and read it carefully later but this is my two cents. I have been a 200+ pound woman my whole adult life (15 1/2 years) and 300+ for the last 2 (finally have seen 299 and never going to 300 again so help me God.) I grew up with a major soda addiction ( I mean MAJOR) so bad that I probably was consuming 500+ calories in soda (I also was more active then but I digress) after a week at summer camp of semi healthing eating I went out to eat with some people I felt self conscious with. (fat people always tend to feel guilty that we still have to eat because some skinny people don't realize this) so I ordered a diet pepsi. It was amazing and I couldn't tell the difference, however real soda disgusted me from that point on. I can drink the clear real sodas if push comes to shove but real cola blech. I am human. I am flawed. I don't have the best discipline 24/7 but I am trying. I would rather give up chocolate for life than give up my 2 diet pepsis a day. Maybe the research is out on the affects of sweeteners and I wouldn't dare tell anyone they are good for you. But you know what else is bad? having a BMI of 50+. I dropped weight like nobody's business once I went off real sodas and I don't buy the myth that they make you hungry (carbonated beverages stretch the stomach and if drunk in excess and often sure, it will take more to satisfy a larger stomach but it isn't the sweetener's fault.) Yes I eventually gained that weight back but it was for entirely different reasons, some in my control, some out of it. I doubt anyone eats perfectly 100% all the time and we do the best we can. The dangers of aspartame and sucralose may be debatable but if anything they are harmful long term. My weight is harmful now. It is the only "sweet" substance I regularly indulge in and I am doing well with 25+ pounds off in a fairly short amount of time eating sensibly. It is a tool. I am sure if we broke everything we eat down there is something in our food that is just as bad. The only way to be completely sure we are eating pure is to either live on a farm or shop at specialty stores, neither of which I can afford. I don't even know if I want to eat pure really, which may sound horrible but my philosophy that has taken my whole life to learn is this: no weight loss plan will ever work if it isn't something I can sustain for life. Therefore I am going to enjoy this white bread, pizza, artificial sweetener world and learn to do so in moderation so that at least I am a normal weight used to eating normal portions. Once I have accomplished that I will worry about the next goal and habits to break. I am not having biological children so I don't have to worry about birth defects and I am more worried about being here for my adopted child's graduation so that is my focus. I don't judge those who don't agree with me. I have a niece who is natural this and natural that. I sometimes jokingly remind her that hemlock is natural and they used it for capital punishment in ancient Greece but if it works for you great. This is something that is working for me with no side affects. (getting off soap box now.)

Have you explained your expertise in epigenetics yet? Did I miss that bit?

I would assume that you are speaking to me? I would have to say that I don't go on these forums to answer questions about myself. However, since you seem to be looking for someone with expertise in epigenetics, here's one and what he has to say would appear to agree with what I have said : http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/jirtle-epigenetics.html

Well you did say

1. Since you are not an "expert", what you "think" isn't really relevant.

Implying that you ARE an expert and that your words on the matter were more reliable than anyone else's. Apparently not.

I implied no such thing with what I said. You merely inferred that and you still don't know whether I am or am not an expert. By the way, I simply reflected back what she said about herself.

So I gave it a few days rest but this damn thing popped back up in the main threads......:grumble:

I am not an expert on epigenetics, I am however an expert on evolution and phylogenetics and can tell quite easily by the content of your posts your level of expertise. I objected to your statement that this could somehow cause damage to future generations however far down the line. This is not what epigenetics is about. You seem to be confusing actual changes in the genetic make up with changes in which the expressed phenotype is altered due to environmental conditions. The genotype itself is not changed and no genotypic change is passed on to future generations. If the genes of the individual are never exposed to the necessary conditions, the phenotype is never expressed. So even if it were found that aspartame somehow caused an epigenetic effect, stopping the use of aspartame would stop the issue immediately (within that generation) no inherent harm would be passed on.

MmHm--except that female babies are born with all the eggs they will ever have and, if those eggs are damaged, it WILL affect future generations. Famine is one of those situations and chemical exposure is another.

And there are billions of other possible things that can cause "damage", and yes if that damage occurs in the gametes as opposed to the somatic cells then offspring born with that "damage" will carry the "damage" in all of their own future somatic cells and pass it on in their own gametes. But see, that sort of damage is called mutation, and it's an important part of this process called Evolution via Natural Selection, because in point of fact, not all "damage" to the DNA is bad. Every once in a while it is actually quite good. And without any damage to DNA from things like radiation, and chemicals, and a whole bunch of other scary words, there would never be any change, and we would have never moved out of the primordial ooze. And that's still not epigenetics.

Well then, let's just pollute willy-nilly and hope for the best shall we? Who knows, maybe we will become a race of super-humans. And just think, all it took to raise life up out of the primordial ooze was damage to DNA! The only thing is, the overwhelming number of mutations are BAD. Since this is not a thread on evolution, I will quit there.

Before you talk in vague generalized terms about the dangers of polluting our environment or food supply you should first bother to establish that the topic at hand, aspartame, is a pollutant. I have yet to see you do anything other than to assert it is unnatural which of course doesn't automatically make it dangerous.

Speak in specifics. I think aspartame posses a risk to our health and/or environment because...

You got so upset that you sent me a PM, but now you're back again?? :noway:
You have WAY too much invested in this, bro.

You got so upset that you sent me a PM, but now you're back again?? :noway:
You have WAY too much invested in this, bro.

I wasn't upset, I was mildly frustrated. If you read "upset" in my tone you misread. I said I was going to give it a rest for a bit because I was getting tired of responding so I gave it a rest for a bit, no big whoop. How I invest my time is of course my own choice You directed something to me on here and rather than respond to you directly on this thread and have it pop up on my recent posts thing I decided to PM you instead thats all..I came back when I felt like coming back, no big deal.

I never, for example, said something like "I won't be posting any more on the thread, and probably won't even go back to read it again". I think you are reading more emotion in me than actually exists here.

Mostly I got annoyed that the conversation went away from aspartame and became all about me as a poster for some reason and that seems to have settled down a bit. Although here you are making it about me again for some reason. Why do you care is I guess my question? Not said with anger so don't read it that way, just genuinely curious.

I said I found it amusing, and now I do again. Your PM said something like "Do you really find that funny?" Well, now I'm finding it even funnier. And, yes, by the "tone" of your post I would say you were pretty upset, but whatever. I just find it ironic that you said you wanted to get it off your "recent posts", yet here you are, back again posting? You don't see the contradiction in your words and your actions?

You got so upset that you sent me a PM, but now you're back again?? :noway:
You have WAY too much invested in this, bro.

I wasn't upset, I was mildly frustrated. If you read "upset" in my tone you misread. I said I was going to give it a rest for a bit because I was getting tired of responding so I gave it a rest for a bit, no big whoop. How I invest my time is of course my own choice You directed something to me on here and rather than respond to you directly on this thread and have it pop up on my recent posts thing I decided to PM you instead thats all..I came back when I felt like coming back, no big deal.

I never, for example, said something like "I won't be posting any more on the thread, and probably won't even go back to read it again". I think you are reading more emotion in me than actually exists here.

Mostly I got annoyed that the conversation went away from aspartame and became all about me as a poster for some reason and that seems to have settled down a bit. Although here you are making it about me again for some reason. Why do you care is I guess my question? Not said with anger so don't read it that way, just genuinely curious.

I said I found it amusing, and now I do again. Your PM said something like "Do you really find that funny?" Well, now I'm finding it even funnier. And, yes, by the "tone" of your post I would say you were pretty upset, but whatever. I just find it ironic that you said you wanted to get it off your "recent posts", yet here you are, back again posting? You don't see the contradiction in your words and your actions?

I guess it just kind of annoys me, because you PMed me to try to make me feel bad about "niggling" you, and it worked. I was sorry to cause you distress, and I thought I would respect you as a person and not come back. But now I feel duped.

You got so upset that you sent me a PM, but now you're back again?? :noway:
You have WAY too much invested in this, bro.

I wasn't upset, I was mildly frustrated. If you read "upset" in my tone you misread. I said I was going to give it a rest for a bit because I was getting tired of responding so I gave it a rest for a bit, no big whoop. How I invest my time is of course my own choice You directed something to me on here and rather than respond to you directly on this thread and have it pop up on my recent posts thing I decided to PM you instead thats all..I came back when I felt like coming back, no big deal.

I never, for example, said something like "I won't be posting any more on the thread, and probably won't even go back to read it again". I think you are reading more emotion in me than actually exists here.

Mostly I got annoyed that the conversation went away from aspartame and became all about me as a poster for some reason and that seems to have settled down a bit. Although here you are making it about me again for some reason. Why do you care is I guess my question? Not said with anger so don't read it that way, just genuinely curious.

I said I found it amusing, and now I do again. Your PM said something like "Do you really find that funny?" Well, now I'm finding it even funnier. And, yes, by the "tone" of your post I would say you were pretty upset, but whatever. I just find it ironic that you said you wanted to get it off your "recent posts", yet here you are, back again posting? You don't see the contradiction in your words and your actions?

I guess it just kind of annoys me, because you PMed me to try to make me feel bad about "niggling" you, and it worked. I was sorry to cause you distress, and I thought I would respect you as a person and not come back. But now I feel duped.

You are reading emotion where there wasn't emotion, I was not trying to make you feel bad...I asked you why you were niggling me on the thread because you were the one posting about me rather than about the topic. Flip back to the beginning of this rolled thread. Notice what everyone else is talking about? Notice what your posts are about? So yeah, I wrote you a PM and asked what you find funny and why you were niggling me rather than posting on the topic.

I still wonder that. I came back and what did I do when I came back. I resumed talking on the topic. You came back and what did you do...resume talking about me. When did I come back? When someone said something about the topic that I thought worth commenting on. When did you come back...when I came back.

What is your fascination with me exactly? Why are you here? Again, no anger...not upset...just curious at this point because its a bit odd. If you are hear because you find pestering me to be "amusing" then yes that is likely to annoy me because no one likes to be randomly pestered for no apparent reason for the amusement of another. If you are here to discuss the topic then discuss the topic I have no issue with that.

All of my posts were not about you personally, they just mostly disagreed with you. I didn't have a problem with you before...now, I really don't like you.*shrug* I guess we can't all get along. I doubt there will be any more PMs from you, but if there are, I will know not to respond again. Good day.

There is a broader question at hand. And that is, do we really want to do an experiment where we unnecessarily expose the populace to a host of synthetic chemicals that have only been part of the physical milieu for less than a dozen decades? (As just one "minor" illustration, even aspirin, in high doses, is linked to cerebral hemorrhage and other bleeding disorders.) There is no assurance that any of these chemicals are safe in the longer term--and NO ONE has any idea whether the COMBINATION of these synthetic chemicals is safe. As a further concern, epigenetics tells us that we may not only be endangering ourselves but future generations as well. Should we not question the unnecessary exposure to synthetic chemicals? Aspartame may or may not be "scary" but is it really necessary?

And ginger is a COX-2 inhibitor (same action as manufactured drugs like Celebrex and Vioxx), and can also cause bleeding disorders. Products that have been around for much longer than a few decades and aren't synthetic can do the same things.

Perhaps you are right and aspartame is harmless (I said perhaps--I remain unconvinced). But, I still prefer to avoid the addition of synthetic chemicals to my food and I would suggest that others do the same. No one has the knowledge of how all of these various synthetic materials act in the long term and certainly not in combination.

Again, why is this limited to synthetic chemicals? Countless combinations of natural consumable substances have never been tested for long term safety. What about something like Chia seeds? It's a newer "fad" in the culinary world. Why shouldn't we be studying it to death before consuming any more of it? Where do we draw the line and decide something is safe enough or has been studied enough to no longer worry about it? You can fear-monger about ANYTHING, synthetic or not.

You got so upset that you sent me a PM, but now you're back again?? :noway:
You have WAY too much invested in this, bro.

I wasn't upset, I was mildly frustrated. If you read "upset" in my tone you misread. I said I was going to give it a rest for a bit because I was getting tired of responding so I gave it a rest for a bit, no big whoop. How I invest my time is of course my own choice You directed something to me on here and rather than respond to you directly on this thread and have it pop up on my recent posts thing I decided to PM you instead thats all..I came back when I felt like coming back, no big deal.

I never, for example, said something like "I won't be posting any more on the thread, and probably won't even go back to read it again". I think you are reading more emotion in me than actually exists here.

Mostly I got annoyed that the conversation went away from aspartame and became all about me as a poster for some reason and that seems to have settled down a bit. Although here you are making it about me again for some reason. Why do you care is I guess my question? Not said with anger so don't read it that way, just genuinely curious.

I said I found it amusing, and now I do again. Your PM said something like "Do you really find that funny?" Well, now I'm finding it even funnier. And, yes, by the "tone" of your post I would say you were pretty upset, but whatever. I just find it ironic that you said you wanted to get it off your "recent posts", yet here you are, back again posting? You don't see the contradiction in your words and your actions?

I guess it just kind of annoys me, because you PMed me to try to make me feel bad about "niggling" you, and it worked. I was sorry to cause you distress, and I thought I would respect you as a person and not come back. But now I feel duped.

You are reading emotion where there wasn't emotion, I was not trying to make you feel bad...I asked you why you were niggling me on the thread because you were the one posting about me rather than about the topic. Flip back to the beginning of this rolled thread. Notice what everyone else is talking about? Notice what your posts are about? So yeah, I wrote you a PM and asked what you find funny and why you were niggling me rather than posting on the topic.

I still wonder that. I came back and what did I do when I came back. I resumed talking on the topic. You came back and what did you do...resume talking about me. When did I come back? When someone said something about the topic that I thought worth commenting on. When did you come back...when I came back.

What is your fascination with me exactly? Why are you here? Again, no anger...not upset...just curious at this point because its a bit odd. If you are hear because you find pestering me to be "amusing" then yes that is likely to annoy me because no one likes to be randomly pestered for no apparent reason for the amusement of another. If you are here to discuss the topic then discuss the topic I have no issue with that.

All of my posts were not about you personally, they just mostly disagreed with you. I didn't have a problem with you before...now, I really don't like you.*shrug* I guess we can't all get along. I doubt there will be any more PMs from you, but if there are, I will know not to respond again. Good day.

All of your posts on the rolled thread (which is what I said) were either about me personally or about someone else personally. You seemed to stick around in your own words for your "amusement" to poke fun at people which yeah I felt warranted a PM asking you why you were doing that. If you wish to leave and not discuss the topic that is fine. If you do not like me that is also fine. If you do not wish me to PM you I will not. I have no desire to follow you around. I have no feelings towards you whatsoever, upset or otherwise...I just don't know why you are here and so far the only answer you have given is "for your personal amusement"

This is getting quite comical. I'm leaving...no wait, I'm back...no, I'm leaving again. I, for one am just going to continue to lurk and be amused.

About the topic?

Didn't you read? No non-expert opinions allowed! You must have at least a PhD to play...

About the topic?

You got so upset that you sent me a PM, but now you're back again?? noway
You have WAY too much invested in this, bro.

About the topic?

LOLZ You were so worried about people thinking you're a jerk....
I wonder why they might think that??

ETA: And keep editing your posts after I respond to them...haha

OMG! You high-brows have waaaaay too much time on your hands! Y'all need to chill yourselves out! Have a drink.....with or without aspartame......relax.....and let it go!

I will say I have not read every single reply, but I do love the way this has been explained. My great grandmother will be 107 on August 6 and she has put Equal in her coffee every day for as long as I can remember. That in itself has been proof enough for me.

My grandmother ingested an incredible amount of saccharin in her day. She NEVER used real sugar in her coffee, and was always eating some awful prepackaged 'diet' food. She died at the age of 98 of natural causes.

Anecdotal, I know. But still.

It's an interesting thread thanks. I was wondering if anyone had an informed opinion about saccharin, as I prefer it's flavour to aspartame. I assume it's safe from what I've seen, and I'll probably keep consuming it in my coffee regardless, though I'm curious. I believe It was involved in another rat cancer scare, though it's since been shown to be safe for humans? I can't say I've looked into it properly.

Just adding a comment for any who suspect it's not safe in general because it's a migraine trigger for some:

My migraine trigger is more-than-usual (note: not necessarily excessive) exertion in the sun.

Migraine triggers can be a whole lotta things, and it doesn't make sense for other people to avoid things that trigger migraines in certain people. Everyone should still get their recommended dose of sunlight-induced vitamin D and plenty of healthy exertion.

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