Chivalry is dead?

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Replies

  • azymth99
    azymth99 Posts: 122 Member
    I was raised old-school. You show respect for women, your elders and hell... everybody else.
  • gitnfit2
    gitnfit2 Posts: 203 Member
    Being raised for a good part of my childhood with my Grandfather as my role model I was also instilled with a lot of these values. To this day I still hold to them in part from my military time and in part to honor a man I admired so much. I do feel like at times we forget to pass these on and that it is slowly fading away, but thankfully my nephew reminds me there is hope for the future. My sister in-law has done an amazing job instilling these principles in him. I have to admit it makes me smile when he is around and at age 10 I hear him using yes sir, no sir, yes mam, no mam.
  • dropdeadgreggie_
    dropdeadgreggie_ Posts: 166 Member
    I open the door for everyone, it's just polite. However, I still open the car door for my lovely lady after 2.5 years and I always will.
  • Texusmc
    Texusmc Posts: 129 Member
    Texusmc, I agree with you, I do all the things that you listed myself, was brought up that way and teach them to both my kids, nieces and nephews. It's not dead yet, there are still some of us that believe in it and practice it.
    Maybe its a Texas thing or just the South, I'm from Texas too.

    Keep up the good work and right now stay dry in our wet June!
  • yankeedownsouth
    yankeedownsouth Posts: 717 Member
    This thread reminds me of my first date with my husband. We met on match.com and went out for dinner on our first date. After ordering, I decided to use the ladies room. When I stood up, he also stood up from the table. I had no idea why he was doing this (only man I've ever known who does this regularly for women as they come to or leave the table), so I took the opportunity to kiss him. I mean, what else was I supposed to do??? Three months later, we were married...

    Anyway, related, but not really. Just brought the story to my mind...
  • RINat612
    RINat612 Posts: 251 Member
    I am 31. I believe in Chivalry. I always say ma'am, sir, hold open doors, etc... I still refuse to call my 80+ year old neighbor by her first name. Mrs. No exceptions. I would get slapped if I called my Uncle by his first name. My wife's family does it though. Annoys me every time. When I first started dating my wife I would constantly have to slap her hand away from door handles. Especially on double door entryways. I would open the first, she would walk though, and then be the first to the second door. 10 years of marriage later and she has finally learned to be treated like a woman and wait for me to open the second :happy: She loves it now.

    But I firmly believe feminists killed Chivalry as a societal norm for sure. What annoys me to no end is when the feminists (who, by the way, always talk down the men in their lives and apply sweeping generalizations to us men in the office) DEMAND we bring up the crate of printer paper from the downstairs storage room.

    EDIT:
    This thread reminds me of my first date with my husband. We met on match.com and went out for dinner on our first date. After ordering, I decided to use the ladies room. When I stood up, he also stood up from the table. I had no idea why he was doing this (only man I've ever known who does this regularly for women as they come to or leave the table), so I took the opportunity to kiss him. I mean, what else was I supposed to do??? Three months later, we were married...

    Anyway, related, but not really. Just brought the story to my mind...

    I don't do the old fashioned standing thing... Maybe I should... :wink: I bet my wife would be confused as to what I was doing too!
  • MysteriousMerlin
    MysteriousMerlin Posts: 2,270 Member
    Don't have to be a man to have good manners. I always open doors for others, use please and thank you like it's going out of style, and am always willing to help those in need. It's part of the culture at my hospital, but good manners have been ingrained in me since childhood.
  • princessofredrock
    princessofredrock Posts: 382 Member
    Do to others as you would have them do to you! Just be thoughtful and kind to each other! No matter sex, race, or any other differences. This is what I'm teaching my boys!


    ^ This.....

    Great post Tex! ;) I was going to say just this as above! My hubby does all this. Sometimes I get to the door first and hold it open for my family or someone else! I let people in front of me in the grocery line if they have less things than I do! If you give you will receive! Pay it forward! Those who don't you can still be polite to and maybe someday they will be polite to someone else!

    You can't give up on our whole race because of a few people!

    Keep on being thoughtful and polite and teaching your children the same!

    :drinker: :flowerforyou:
  • _errata_
    _errata_ Posts: 1,653 Member
    It is a historical fact that chivalry was a knightly code invented by priests to prevent other knights from murdering the **** out of each other when not at war. It was invented literally to keep the peace.

    The idea of it was romanticized by the romantics in the 1800s by works of fiction like Ivanhoe.

    TLDR: It never existed. Throughout most of history, women have been treated more like property rather than princesses.
  • Oi_Sunshine
    Oi_Sunshine Posts: 819 Member
    The notion of chivalry annoys me. It favours men helping women. Really, we need to move past that and think how can we help one another, regardless of sex or limited abilities. Because I am a man, am I not deserving to have a door held for me, especially when It arms are full. I suspect people would be willing to run and rep a woman struggling with something heavy, but more releuctant to help a male in the same situation.

    I think holding the door for anyone with their arms full would be common sense. I've done it but sometimes for men and then they have refused to go through the door until I do. Oh well.

    At work, we have visitors come through and our policy is to have one person guide them and one following, since it can be dangerous for wandering visitors. Well good luck getting some of the gents walking in front of a female follower. It becomes a little dance of "After you, sir." "No, after you, I insist." "Actually, it's policy. Last one through is an employee." Then a little look of horror and skepticism like he thinks this is a test and expecting his parents to jump out of hiding to scold him.
  • mlanders22
    mlanders22 Posts: 140 Member
    The notion of chivalry annoys me. It favours men helping women. Really, we need to move past that and think how can we help one another, regardless of sex or limited abilities. Because I am a man, am I not deserving to have a door held for me, especially when It arms are full. I suspect people would be willing to run and rep a woman struggling with something heavy, but more releuctant to help a male in the same situation.

    I agree with you here. I have a few older gentlemen who live in my condo building and I was walking in from the parking lot at the same time one of them was bringing in his groceries. I offered to help him carry his stuff in and he seemed flat out schocked that I would do such a thing. It's kind of sad that common courtesy is often so unexpected.

    See, perhaps this attitude is why it is either close to dead, or dead period. Making it seem such a bad thing that a man wants to go out of his way to do something nice. I understand it should be 'equal' but then also don't take it as a guy trying to flirt or get in your pants if he tries to help you out in public..

    I'm confused. To which attitude are you referring? I went out of my way to help him with his groceries because I try to help out when I can. Regardless of if that person is young, old, male, female, or what have you.
    If someone offered to help me with my groceries (which happens frequently because I'm usually toting my toddler as well as my stuff) I don't assume that person wants to get in my pants.
  • SCV34
    SCV34 Posts: 2,048 Member
    Texusmc, I agree with you, I do all the things that you listed myself, was brought up that way and teach them to both my kids, nieces and nephews. It's not dead yet, there are still some of us that believe in it and practice it.
    Maybe its a Texas thing or just the South, I'm from Texas too.

    Keep up the good work and right now stay dry in our wet June!

    I was born and raised in Texas. I think it is what we do. I had dinner with my 21 year old and it made my heart smile to hear him say yes mam and please to our waitress. When he was younger he would hold doors open for anyone and still does.
  • QueenBishOTUniverse
    QueenBishOTUniverse Posts: 14,121 Member
    I am 31. I believe in Chivalry. I always say ma'am, sir, hold open doors, etc... I still refuse to call my 80+ year old neighbor by her first name. Mrs. No exceptions. I would get slapped if I called my Uncle by his first name. My wife's family does it though. Annoys me every time. When I first started dating my wife I would constantly have to slap her hand away from door handles. Especially on double door entryways. I would open the first, she would walk though, and then be the first to the second door. 10 years of marriage later and she has finally learned to be treated like a woman and wait for me to open the second :happy: She loves it now.

    But I firmly believe feminists killed Chivalry as a societal norm for sure. What annoys me to no end is when the feminists (who, by the way, always talk down the men in their lives and apply sweeping generalizations to us men in the office) DEMAND we bring up the crate of printer paper from the downstairs storage room.

    See, now I would have slapped your hand right back, but then again, I also carry my own printer paper just fine. Women who refer to themselves as feminists and then abuse those kinds of double standards piss me off more than chivalry, but to each their own.
  • oregonzoo
    oregonzoo Posts: 4,251 Member
    I could write forever and ever on this.

    No, I don't think good manners are dead. It's subjective. There are some real dungballs in the world. That's always been the case. I always do my best to be kind to people and have good manners. I'm working on doing the same for my children.


    And to be 100% frank.. having manners and a sense of "chivalry" doesn't always make you a good person.
    A lot of times to me it seems put on and fake.

    Because when you hear what people say behind closed doors, it's not nice.
  • buzybev
    buzybev Posts: 199 Member

    But I firmly believe feminists killed Chivalry as a societal norm for sure. What annoys me to no end is when the feminists (who, by the way, always talk down the men in their lives and apply sweeping generalizations to us men in the office) DEMAND we bring up the crate of printer paper from the downstairs storage room.


    <_<
  • motivatedmartha
    motivatedmartha Posts: 1,108 Member
    The notion of chivalry annoys me. It favours men helping women. Really, we need to move past that and think how can we help one another, regardless of sex or limited abilities. Because I am a man, am I not deserving to have a door held for me, especially when It arms are full. I suspect people would be willing to run and rep a woman struggling with something heavy, but more releuctant to help a male in the same situation.

    I agree. I see no reason why a woman should have her car door opened for her or not carry her own umbrella (many here lift heavy after all!) BUT I have taught my children to be polite to everyone they meet - please and thank you and normal courtesies are important. As young adults they give up their seats to anyone older or more infirm than themselves and to ladies who are obviously pregnant. They will hold the door open for anyone going through the same doorway as them and will also go out of their way to open the door for anyone for whom it may be a struggle - eg heavy door for someone slight or anyone - male or female - who has their hands full.

    I think I have raised courteous children.

    Both expect their future life partners to work as a team with them, and my daughter always opens her own car door!
  • Gilbrod
    Gilbrod Posts: 1,216 Member
    It is a historical fact that chivalry was a knightly code invented by priests to prevent other knights from murdering the **** out of each other when not at war. It was invented literally to keep the peace.

    The idea of it was romanticized by the romantics in the 1800s by works of fiction like Ivanhoe.

    TLDR: It never existed. Throughout most of history, women have been treated more like property rather than princesses.


    _erreta...so does that mean you don't believe in being courtious? :wink:
  • greeneyes0809
    greeneyes0809 Posts: 422 Member
    But I firmly believe feminists killed Chivalry as a societal norm for sure. What annoys me to no end is when the feminists (who, by the way, always talk down the men in their lives and apply sweeping generalizations to us men in the office) DEMAND we bring up the crate of printer paper from the downstairs storage room.

    Critiques people for making sweeping generalizations. Makes a sweeping generalization. Logical.
  • motivatedmartha
    motivatedmartha Posts: 1,108 Member

    But I firmly believe feminists killed Chivalry as a societal norm for sure. What annoys me to no end is when the feminists (who, by the way, always talk down the men in their lives and apply sweeping generalizations to us men in the office) DEMAND we bring up the crate of printer paper from the downstairs storage room.


    <_<

    I guess I am a feminist - I have had a 'career' all my life, expected to be treated equally (emphasis on equally) in the workplace and would never dream of making sweeping generalisations about the men I worked with or talk down the men in my life. Hubby and I divided the chores while raising our children because it made sense for hm to do what he's good at and me to do what I'm good at - we were a team, not 2 individual players. He will always help with the household chores if I need it - I will always help him with his jobs if he needs it.

    If a man offered to carry anything very heavy for me - I would accept graciously - on the other hand, if a colleague was having difficulty carrying anything, male or female, I would help them.

    It's about equality guys - both genders need to remember that.
  • mccindy72
    mccindy72 Posts: 7,001 Member
    I raised two boys to say yes sir, yes ma'am, please and thank you, and to hold the doors for other people, allow others to go first, give up their seats to others who might need it more, etc. It's not about sexism or feminism or any of that, it's just about manners and respect for your fellow people. As a woman, I often stop to hold doors for others. If they insist I go first, I just say thank you and go. No need for awkward pauses and arguments. Society spends too much time hung up on who is right and who is wrong and not enough time on just being nice to each other.
  • digitalbill
    digitalbill Posts: 1,410 Member
    I am 45, a Southerner, a Veteran (Army) and a Father.
    My Father taught it to me and I am passing it down to my kids.
    The "rule of law" in my family is to help those who cannot help themselfs.
    My kids have seen me help change a tire for a stranger or give a jump start in a parking lot.
    My son has observed me absolutly refuse to take a plate at a gathering until the ladies have already gotten theirs and he is starting to follow suit.
    I will say that chivalry is not dead but, it is on life support.
    It is a combonation of guys who just don't care and girls who feel it is sexist.
  • jonward85
    jonward85 Posts: 534 Member
    I try my best to be Chivalrous. Sometimes there are lapses, but i agree with other posters, society seems out to destroy these things.
  • PinkyFett
    PinkyFett Posts: 842 Member
    Both genders could learn lessons about this!

    I agree!

    I'm teaching all my kids to use manners and have courtesy for others. That's how it should be. Not just men.
  • Monkey_Business
    Monkey_Business Posts: 1,800 Member
    OP, Chivalry is not dead, it is just not pratical to practise anymore. I think you mean are good manners being practise.

    I also believe i being a Gentle by conduct "the appellation of Gentleman is never to be affixed to a man's circumstances, but to his Behaviour in them,"
    \
    I try to practise good manners in my daily life, but I also try to be a gentleman.

    Just oner ole man's opinion...........

    "Chivalry, or the chivalric code, is a code of conduct associated with the medieval institution of knighthood. Chivalry arose from an idealised German custom.[1] It developed first in the north of France among horse soldiers who served in Charlemagne′s heavy cavalry.[2] It was originally conceived of as an aristocratic warrior code — the term derives from the French term chevalerie, meaning horse soldiery[3] — involving gallantry, individual training, and service to others. Over time its meaning has been refined to emphasise more ideals such as the knightly virtues of honour, courtly love, courtesy, and less martial aspects of the tradition.

    The Knight's Code of Chivalry was a moral and honourable system that stated all knights should protect others who can not protect themselves, such as widows, children, and elders. All knights needed to have the strength and skills to fight wars in the Middle Ages; they not only had to be strong but they were also extremely disciplined and were expected to use their power to protect the weak and defenseless.

    Knights vowed to be loyal, generous, and "of noble bearing". Knights were required to tell the truth and respect the honour of women. Knights vowed to protect the weak and guard the honour of fellow knights. They were to obey those in authority, and to never refuse a challenge from an equal. Knights lived by honour and for glory. Knights were to fear God and maintain His Church. Knights always kept their faith and never turned their back on a foe. Knights despised pecuniary reward. They persevered to the end in any enterprise begun.
  • asdowe13
    asdowe13 Posts: 1,951 Member
    I have to disagree here chivalry isn't dead.

    It's been beaten into submission.

    The attitude and actions of the Feminist empowering movement has taken it's toll on chivalry.

    I will hold doors, say thank you, help in anyway I can on a daily basis, sometimes It's welcomed, sometimes I get dirty looks, and/or snarky remarks like " I can get that myself" " do i look like you need to hold the door for me?" "yeah! Thanks"

    It doesn't stop me from doing the kind things I do or from being polite, but I can see others just giving up on it, and Frankly I don't blame them.
  • rsoice
    rsoice Posts: 212 Member
    I am starting to see a trend, seems the "older" a guy is (mid 30's on up) the more he was taught manners. very few under 30 men have been taught this. I was partly raised by my grand parents who were very strict and Depression era survivors. so to me that might have allot to do with it.

    Not so true. Both of my sons open doors for others (without regard to gender) because I set an example for them to follow. When either of our sons are with us I don't open doors for their mother because they beat me to it. While I agree with the premise that manners are taught I believe that the best teaching method is example. If they've never seen it, they aren't likely to do it but if they see it all the time it becomes a norm which more often than not is emulated.
  • RINat612
    RINat612 Posts: 251 Member
    But I firmly believe feminists killed Chivalry as a societal norm for sure. What annoys me to no end is when the feminists (who, by the way, always talk down the men in their lives and apply sweeping generalizations to us men in the office) DEMAND we bring up the crate of printer paper from the downstairs storage room.

    Critiques people for making sweeping generalizations. Makes a sweeping generalization. Logical.

    I did not make a "sweeping generalization". Feminists did kill Chivalry as a societal norm. The movements wanted women to be equals. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. I view my wife as my equal (better in many things too). But feminists did go further to emasculate masculinity as a whole. This isn't a generalization, it is fact.

    When I said my co-workers make "sweeping generalizations" about men, I mean things like "All men never pick up after themselves. All men leave clothes on the floor." I could go on and on. These are generalizations.
  • sjebert
    sjebert Posts: 212 Member
    I try to be and generally I am, but I do find it hard sometimes, I know there have been times when I have held the door open for women only to have them snap at me "I can do it myself" it just makes you want to not do it anymore. I was taught from an early age to hold the doors for ladies and I can still remember the time I did not hold the door for my Grandmother and getting pulled back outside by my ear from my Grandfather and told that was not the way a gentleman acted around ladies.
  • Collier78
    Collier78 Posts: 811 Member
    You could be that way because you're in Texas, or you could be that way because of your military history. Regardless, I have serious doubts that parents are still teaching their kids manners today, whether they be boys or girls.

    being from Texas really doesn't have much to do with it, however, we do expect our young men to act proper. yeah you do jackassery type of things with your buddies, but when ladies are around you better straighten up. The Military aspect of it just reinforced this I guess.

    I teach my children the same thing. The problem is we have entitled children having babies and the cycle continues. Do I still struggle with my children having moments of selfishness, yes. However, I do my best to guide them in the right direction of being well mannered, polite, productive members of society. It isn't easy when there are so many out there that aren't, and they wonder why they have to be better.
  • justanotherloser007
    justanotherloser007 Posts: 578 Member
    I know I am a 40yo woman, but I will chime in. The Northern/Southern difference is pretty real. I was born in Michigan, and came to Houston, Texas when I was 8yo. The FIRST thing I learned from my teachers was always, "Yes Ma'am, Yes Sir". My parents didn't understand it. I use ma'am and sir to this day when I don't know someone's name regardless of age. It just makes so much sense. What am I supposed to say, "hey you person?" Daft.

    I always try to smile, and be kind, and be good to everyone. Please, thank you, sorry - all part of my constant vocabulary.

    I have no children of my own, since I am barren, but I have been married to a very chivalrous loving wonderful man for over 19 years. He says he married me because I understand the chivalrous attitude. I read a ton of fantasy, and chivalry is live and kicking in the books. I showed my complete trust in him when I wrote in "obey" in my marriage vows. Oh the women in my family were so angry about that. But, I wanted to show him that I trust him with my life, and that isn't just lip service it is real. It has created peace in our marriage. One time we were arguing about something stupid, and he said, "Please stop arguing with me." I was angry, but I decided that he was right. I was just arguing. It was awesome and saved a ton of hurt feelings. I know most women will HATE what I just wrote, but it is true.

    We both volunteer to teach 6th graders at church. The children aren't particularly mouthy, unless you mean they like to talk a lot to each other. They are always very respectful to me and my husband. We haven't had any problems with bullying in our class - which I think is odd because they complain about it weekly at school. But they have a sense of comraderie, and I have a zero tolerance bully policy that I haven't even had to tell them about! I think that the most chivalrous children are the ones that have had the hardest time at home, and the ones who have big extended families. They seem to be the most responsive to the golden rule and respect.

    A couple months ago I overheard parents talking about children's manners one day, and this quote stuck with me, "The easiest thing to do is nothing at all." So chivalry, kindness, appropriate discipline all takes hard work. I believe it is worth it. And just because parents don't teach it doesn't mean children cannot learn it.

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