Paleo vs Eatting clean?
Replies
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
polyunsaturated fats are good for you.
Are they? it's a fat that goes rancid easily and is not stable at high temperatures! I think in the eighties it was lorded as a safe replacement to saturated fat.
That's back in the day when science and nutritional understanding was still pretty primitive. Science has now caught up (well catching) and guess what, that's right, turns out it was saturated fat that's was good for us and not the other way round..... who would have guessed!
In fact polyunsaturated is good to a degree - well only omega 3!
That's your premise for healthy or not? something that goes rancid easily and is not stable at higher temperatures?
Well in that case- I'm going to stop eating oranges and chicken.
1.) my orange I only consumed 2 slices of started molding within 2 days of cutting.
and
2.) my chicken breast exploded out of the microwave when I heated it up.
looks like my list of dietary restrictions just got more specific.
The finer point that you are missing is that the polyunsaturated fats that many food products are made with go rancid on the shelf. They don't taste so bad that you won't eat them but it's no longer a very good food. If you cook with polyunsaturated at high heat, it can form harmful compounds.
I seriously doubt that polyunsaturated oils are as evil as the current Paleo wisdom would want you to think. The bigger problem is that finding some really fresh oils might be difficult.0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
So prove it. 'Pretty sure' doesn't cut it.
Also note the phrase 'in moderation'. I wouldn't recommend living on ready meals exclusively, but one or so a day isn't going to harm you.
No, but how untypical a day would it be to say have:
MacDonalds breakfast
Cereal bar
Microwavable lunch of description
Bag of crisps
For dinner Chicken and a pre-made jar of sauce. Maybe some coated (seasoned) frozen potatoes.
I think that's not an untypical kind of day for a lot of people - Most of those things are mass produced.
Although I sure the companies producing them use only the finest ingredients and to hell with the profit margins!
Can you honestly say you do not 'personally' know anyone that barely eats a bit of fruit or veg! I know loads.
This was the original statement in the quote string that started all of this:Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
You've gone from a discussion of clean eating vs. a wide diet with all foods in moderation to a discussion comparing clean eating vs. only packaged/fast food and almost no veggies. You're shifting the goal posts wildly.
Straw man argument.
How is my post straw man? I was answering the post about eating a wide diet in moderation was unhealtier than eating a 'clean diet'.
If a lot of the items on your wider diet (like SAD) are mass produced (multi-ingredient) and you eat each of them in moderation, a majority of your food is still mass produced!
And again, I can go out to the garden and pick some things that I can cook in freshly rendered lard and make a meal with far less nutrition than a Kashi frozen dinner. So what?
I would recommend cooking in freshly rendered lard its very good for you - packed full of saturated fat!
I suppose those if you cooked your Kashi dinner yourself from fresh ingredients and in saturated fats instead of polyunsaturated or trans fats, your home prepared meal would top the health scale.
What exactly do you have against processed food? And how exactly do you define processed in this instance? Kashi meals are pretty healthy. Frozen veggies are very healthy. Even if they have more than 5 different vegetables.0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »
Outside of MFP I don't think I've ever heard one person mention clean eating! I don't consider myself a clean eater, but I love the fact that there are people passionate about it.
It is a trendy, meaningless, derogatory term that I frequently see in other (non weightloss/nutrition) forums I am a member of. I also occasionally hear people mention in in conversations at restaurants and at my fitness center.
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I have a client that has been Paleo for years. I don't agree with the way she eats but it works for her. She works out 3-4 hours a day, runs marathons and competes in body sculpture competitions.0
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SnuggleSmacks wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
So prove it. 'Pretty sure' doesn't cut it.
Also note the phrase 'in moderation'. I wouldn't recommend living on ready meals exclusively, but one or so a day isn't going to harm you.
No, but how untypical a day would it be to say have:
MacDonalds breakfast
Cereal bar
Microwavable lunch of description
Bag of crisps
For dinner Chicken and a pre-made jar of sauce. Maybe some coated (seasoned) frozen potatoes.
I think that's not an untypical kind of day for a lot of people - Most of those things are mass produced.
Although I sure the companies producing them use only the finest ingredients and to hell with the profit margins!
Can you honestly say you do not 'personally' know anyone that barely eats a bit of fruit or veg! I know loads.
This was the original statement in the quote string that started all of this:Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
You've gone from a discussion of clean eating vs. a wide diet with all foods in moderation to a discussion comparing clean eating vs. only packaged/fast food and almost no veggies. You're shifting the goal posts wildly.
Straw man argument.
How is my post straw man? I was answering the post about eating a wide diet in moderation was unhealtier than eating a 'clean diet'.
If a lot of the items on your wider diet (like SAD) are mass produced (multi-ingredient) and you eat each of them in moderation, a majority of your food is still mass produced!
And again, I can go out to the garden and pick some things that I can cook in freshly rendered lard and make a meal with far less nutrition than a Kashi frozen dinner. So what?
I would recommend cooking in freshly rendered lard its very good for you - packed full of saturated fat!
I suppose those if you cooked your Kashi dinner yourself from fresh ingredients and in saturated fats instead of polyunsaturated or trans fats, your home prepared meal would top the health scale.
What exactly do you have against processed food? And how exactly do you define processed in this instance? Kashi meals are pretty healthy. Frozen veggies are very healthy. Even if they have more than 5 different vegetables.
I've got nothing against processed food - I eat processed food.
Just because I am saying home cooked over processed means that I am advising people to avoid processed.
I am pointing out that processed does contain unhealthy fats, but eaten in moderation that's fine.
But for a lot of people (and I doubt those people frequent MFP) they do not have a diet moderate in processed food. They have diets of a wide variety of processed food.
The question should be, what do you have against home cooked food?
* multi ingrdient process food (not eggs or apples)0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
polyunsaturated fats are good for you.
Are they? it's a fat that goes rancid easily and is not stable at high temperatures! I think in the eighties it was lorded as a safe replacement to saturated fat.
That's back in the day when science and nutritional understanding was still pretty primitive. Science has now caught up (well catching) and guess what, that's right, turns out it was saturated fat that's was good for us and not the other way round..... who would have guessed!
In fact polyunsaturated is good to a degree - well only omega 3!
That's your premise for healthy or not? something that goes rancid easily and is not stable at higher temperatures?
Well in that case- I'm going to stop eating oranges and chicken.
1.) my orange I only consumed 2 slices of started molding within 2 days of cutting.
and
2.) my chicken breast exploded out of the microwave when I heated it up.
looks like my list of dietary restrictions just got more specific.
Did you eat your orange when it was moldy? - or did you chuck the moldy bit away!!
I'll be honest I've already dropped moldy orange from my diet!
That logic does not even follow the example.
Edited to fix effed up quotes.
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SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
So prove it. 'Pretty sure' doesn't cut it.
Also note the phrase 'in moderation'. I wouldn't recommend living on ready meals exclusively, but one or so a day isn't going to harm you.
No, but how untypical a day would it be to say have:
MacDonalds breakfast
Cereal bar
Microwavable lunch of description
Bag of crisps
For dinner Chicken and a pre-made jar of sauce. Maybe some coated (seasoned) frozen potatoes.
I think that's not an untypical kind of day for a lot of people - Most of those things are mass produced.
Although I sure the companies producing them use only the finest ingredients and to hell with the profit margins!
Can you honestly say you do not 'personally' know anyone that barely eats a bit of fruit or veg! I know loads.
Funny thing is that it's I highly doubt any "dirty eater" (myself included) eats like this. It's a BS false dichotomy - you either label yourself a clean eater (whatever that is) or you eat 100% processed food, every day, for your entire life.
Now a clean eater (whatever that means), eats the evil processed foods but rationalizes it every step of the way. Talk about swallowing a camel but choking on a gnat!
There are a lot of people eating on a budget that eat a whole lot worse than that. If you do not move in those circles then good for you!
Ok, and there are a lot that don't. What's your point?
My point is there is a lot that are!!!
And a diet of home cooked food is healthier - what the big deal with that. If you don't eat that type of 'budget diet' then you're not eating unhealthier!
But and I'll say it again a lot of people are!
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
So prove it. 'Pretty sure' doesn't cut it.
Also note the phrase 'in moderation'. I wouldn't recommend living on ready meals exclusively, but one or so a day isn't going to harm you.
No, but how untypical a day would it be to say have:
MacDonalds breakfast
Cereal bar
Microwavable lunch of description
Bag of crisps
For dinner Chicken and a pre-made jar of sauce. Maybe some coated (seasoned) frozen potatoes.
Extremely untypical for numerous people who aren't "clean eaters."Can you honestly say you do not 'personally' know anyone that barely eats a bit of fruit or veg! I know loads.
The majority of people I know don't go on about "eating clean" or define themselves that way. And yet the majority of people I know eat fruits and veggies. (My general circle may not be typical, who knows.)
Outside of MFP I don't think I've ever heard one person mention clean eating! I don't consider myself a clean eater, but I love the fact that there are people passionate about it.
So everyone yon know eats plenty of fruit and veg - good for you and all the people you know.
I've clearly met different people.
Ca you define (in percentage terms) 'numerous people?
I said "the majority" not "all the people I know."
None of the people I know closely enough to know their eating habits eat a thing like your meal plan above, though.
For what it's worth I know a lot of people who are parents (and concerned about having family meals and all that) or otherwise health and fitness conscious. (Yes, people can be concerned about health and nutrition and not call themselves "clean eaters," go figure.) And those I know who don't fit in either of those categories tend to be a little bit on the food snob side (that is, they go out to eat a lot, but places where the food tends to be good quality and vegetables are part of the meal.
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
So prove it. 'Pretty sure' doesn't cut it.
Also note the phrase 'in moderation'. I wouldn't recommend living on ready meals exclusively, but one or so a day isn't going to harm you.
No, but how untypical a day would it be to say have:
MacDonalds breakfast
Cereal bar
Microwavable lunch of description
Bag of crisps
For dinner Chicken and a pre-made jar of sauce. Maybe some coated (seasoned) frozen potatoes.
I think that's not an untypical kind of day for a lot of people - Most of those things are mass produced.
Although I sure the companies producing them use only the finest ingredients and to hell with the profit margins!
Can you honestly say you do not 'personally' know anyone that barely eats a bit of fruit or veg! I know loads.
Funny thing is that it's I highly doubt any "dirty eater" (myself included) eats like this. It's a BS false dichotomy - you either label yourself a clean eater (whatever that is) or you eat 100% processed food, every day, for your entire life.
Now a clean eater (whatever that means), eats the evil processed foods but rationalizes it every step of the way. Talk about swallowing a camel but choking on a gnat!
There are a lot of people eating on a budget that eat a whole lot worse than that. If you do not move in those circles then good for you!
Ok, and there are a lot that don't. What's your point?
My point is there is a lot that are!!!
And a diet of home cooked food is healthier - what the big deal with that. If you don't eat that type of 'budget diet' then you're not eating unhealthier!
But and I'll say it again a lot of people are!
So I agree with you that a diet consisting of 100% whole foods is definitely healthier than a diet of 100% processed multi-ingredient packaged foods, but where the disagreement comes in for me is that a 100% whole food diet that hits all the macros/micros is not even a little bit more healthy than a mostly whole food diet with some bad *kitten* sprinkled in, but still hits the appropriate macros and micros.
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
Thats a very big assumption.
Also, what is bad about interesterified or polyunsaturated fats?
I've commented on that above!!!
Where do you explain how interesterified or polyunsaturated fats are bad?
Edited to fix double quotes...again.0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
So prove it. 'Pretty sure' doesn't cut it.
Also note the phrase 'in moderation'. I wouldn't recommend living on ready meals exclusively, but one or so a day isn't going to harm you.
No, but how untypical a day would it be to say have:
MacDonalds breakfast
Cereal bar
Microwavable lunch of description
Bag of crisps
For dinner Chicken and a pre-made jar of sauce. Maybe some coated (seasoned) frozen potatoes.
Extremely untypical for numerous people who aren't "clean eaters."Can you honestly say you do not 'personally' know anyone that barely eats a bit of fruit or veg! I know loads.
The majority of people I know don't go on about "eating clean" or define themselves that way. And yet the majority of people I know eat fruits and veggies. (My general circle may not be typical, who knows.)
Outside of MFP I don't think I've ever heard one person mention clean eating! I don't consider myself a clean eater, but I love the fact that there are people passionate about it.
So everyone yon know eats plenty of fruit and veg - good for you and all the people you know.
I've clearly met different people.
Ca you define (in percentage terms) 'numerous people?
I haven't heard clean eating irl or flexitarian. I know people that diet but they are usually the more commercial ones.
I don't eat a lot of veggies. I have to make a conscious effort to add them to meals. I am probably more like the people you have met. I have some health issues but they are related to genetics more than diet. My meals don't look like you described-that seems pretty extreme.
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Just eat whatever you want in moderation. Or eat only food that is grown in the ground or runs around on four legs. Either way you will get results if you do it right.
I try to eat pretty well, that's why for breakfast I had choc rush cereal, hand picked from the very rare rush tree of south-east Asia.0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
So prove it. 'Pretty sure' doesn't cut it.
Also note the phrase 'in moderation'. I wouldn't recommend living on ready meals exclusively, but one or so a day isn't going to harm you.
No, but how untypical a day would it be to say have:
MacDonalds breakfast
Cereal bar
Microwavable lunch of description
Bag of crisps
For dinner Chicken and a pre-made jar of sauce. Maybe some coated (seasoned) frozen potatoes.
I think that's not an untypical kind of day for a lot of people - Most of those things are mass produced.
Although I sure the companies producing them use only the finest ingredients and to hell with the profit margins!
Can you honestly say you do not 'personally' know anyone that barely eats a bit of fruit or veg! I know loads.
This was the original statement in the quote string that started all of this:Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
You've gone from a discussion of clean eating vs. a wide diet with all foods in moderation to a discussion comparing clean eating vs. only packaged/fast food and almost no veggies. You're shifting the goal posts wildly.
Straw man argument.
How is my post straw man? I was answering the post about eating a wide diet in moderation was unhealtier than eating a 'clean diet'.
If a lot of the items on your wider diet (like SAD) are mass produced (multi-ingredient) and you eat each of them in moderation, a majority of your food is still mass produced!
why did you put mass produced next to multi-ingredient?????
mass produced and one ingredient
the incredible edible egg
http://www.uspoultry.org/economic_data/
I put multi ingredient next to mass produced so people didn't say stuff like - Yeah but what about eggs and apples - their healthy and mass produced.
Although I doubt anyone would be that obvious.
Maybe I've been around these forums too long. Although it is good to tussle with the trolls, from time to time! lol
*yawn* troll comment again.
Funny how everyone else is a troll, but I assume that you do not think you are.
I would recommend looking up the definition of troll.
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
So prove it. 'Pretty sure' doesn't cut it.
Also note the phrase 'in moderation'. I wouldn't recommend living on ready meals exclusively, but one or so a day isn't going to harm you.
No, but how untypical a day would it be to say have:
MacDonalds breakfast
Cereal bar
Microwavable lunch of description
Bag of crisps
For dinner Chicken and a pre-made jar of sauce. Maybe some coated (seasoned) frozen potatoes.
I think that's not an untypical kind of day for a lot of people - Most of those things are mass produced.
Although I sure the companies producing them use only the finest ingredients and to hell with the profit margins!
Can you honestly say you do not 'personally' know anyone that barely eats a bit of fruit or veg! I know loads.
This was the original statement in the quote string that started all of this:Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
You've gone from a discussion of clean eating vs. a wide diet with all foods in moderation to a discussion comparing clean eating vs. only packaged/fast food and almost no veggies. You're shifting the goal posts wildly.
Straw man argument.
How is my post straw man? I was answering the post about eating a wide diet in moderation was unhealtier than eating a 'clean diet'.
If a lot of the items on your wider diet (like SAD) are mass produced (multi-ingredient) and you eat each of them in moderation, a majority of your food is still mass produced!
why did you put mass produced next to multi-ingredient?????
mass produced and one ingredient
the incredible edible egg
http://www.uspoultry.org/economic_data/
I put multi ingredient next to mass produced so people didn't say stuff like - Yeah but what about eggs and apples - their healthy and mass produced.
Although I doubt anyone would be that obvious.
Maybe I've been around these forums too long. Although it is good to tussle with the trolls, from time to time! lol
*yawn* troll comment again.
Funny how everyone else is a troll, but I assume that you do not think you are.
I would recommend looking up the definition of troll.
Well I'm not the one hijacking a thread!
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LolBroScience wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
So prove it. 'Pretty sure' doesn't cut it.
Also note the phrase 'in moderation'. I wouldn't recommend living on ready meals exclusively, but one or so a day isn't going to harm you.
No, but how untypical a day would it be to say have:
MacDonalds breakfast
Cereal bar
Microwavable lunch of description
Bag of crisps
For dinner Chicken and a pre-made jar of sauce. Maybe some coated (seasoned) frozen potatoes.
Extremely untypical for numerous people who aren't "clean eaters."Can you honestly say you do not 'personally' know anyone that barely eats a bit of fruit or veg! I know loads.
The majority of people I know don't go on about "eating clean" or define themselves that way. And yet the majority of people I know eat fruits and veggies. (My general circle may not be typical, who knows.)
Outside of MFP I don't think I've ever heard one person mention clean eating! I don't consider myself a clean eater, but I love the fact that there are people passionate about it.
So everyone yon know eats plenty of fruit and veg - good for you and all the people you know.
I've clearly met different people.
Ca you define (in percentage terms) 'numerous people?
Really?
Yes, seriously I haven't.
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
polyunsaturated fats are good for you.
Are they? it's a fat that goes rancid easily and is not stable at high temperatures! I think in the eighties it was lorded as a safe replacement to saturated fat.
That's back in the day when science and nutritional understanding was still pretty primitive. Science has now caught up (well catching) and guess what, that's right, turns out it was saturated fat that's was good for us and not the other way round..... who would have guessed!
In fact polyunsaturated is good to a degree - well only omega 3!
That's your premise for healthy or not? something that goes rancid easily and is not stable at higher temperatures?
Well in that case- I'm going to stop eating oranges and chicken.
1.) my orange I only consumed 2 slices of started molding within 2 days of cutting.
and
2.) my chicken breast exploded out of the microwave when I heated it up.
looks like my list of dietary restrictions just got more specific.
Did you eat your orange when it was moldy? - or did you chuck the moldy bit away!!
I'll be honest I've already dropped moldy orange from my diet!
That logic does not even follow the example.
Edited to fix effed up quotes.
???? what ?????
0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
polyunsaturated fats are good for you.
Are they? it's a fat that goes rancid easily and is not stable at high temperatures! I think in the eighties it was lorded as a safe replacement to saturated fat.
That's back in the day when science and nutritional understanding was still pretty primitive. Science has now caught up (well catching) and guess what, that's right, turns out it was saturated fat that's was good for us and not the other way round..... who would have guessed!
In fact polyunsaturated is good to a degree - well only omega 3!
That's your premise for healthy or not? something that goes rancid easily and is not stable at higher temperatures?
Well in that case- I'm going to stop eating oranges and chicken.
1.) my orange I only consumed 2 slices of started molding within 2 days of cutting.
and
2.) my chicken breast exploded out of the microwave when I heated it up.
looks like my list of dietary restrictions just got more specific.
Did you eat your orange when it was moldy? - or did you chuck the moldy bit away!!
I'll be honest I've already dropped moldy orange from my diet!
That logic does not even follow the example.
Edited to fix effed up quotes.
???? what ?????tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
polyunsaturated fats are good for you.
Are they? it's a fat that goes rancid easily and is not stable at high temperatures! I think in the eighties it was lorded as a safe replacement to saturated fat.
That's back in the day when science and nutritional understanding was still pretty primitive. Science has now caught up (well catching) and guess what, that's right, turns out it was saturated fat that's was good for us and not the other way round..... who would have guessed!
In fact polyunsaturated is good to a degree - well only omega 3!
That's your premise for healthy or not? something that goes rancid easily and is not stable at higher temperatures?
Well in that case- I'm going to stop eating oranges and chicken.
1.) my orange I only consumed 2 slices of started molding within 2 days of cutting.
and
2.) my chicken breast exploded out of the microwave when I heated it up.
looks like my list of dietary restrictions just got more specific.
Did you eat your orange when it was moldy? - or did you chuck the moldy bit away!!
I'll be honest I've already dropped moldy orange from my diet!
That logic does not even follow the example.
Edited to fix effed up quotes.
???? what ?????
What exactly are you asking?
0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
So prove it. 'Pretty sure' doesn't cut it.
Also note the phrase 'in moderation'. I wouldn't recommend living on ready meals exclusively, but one or so a day isn't going to harm you.
No, but how untypical a day would it be to say have:
MacDonalds breakfast
Cereal bar
Microwavable lunch of description
Bag of crisps
For dinner Chicken and a pre-made jar of sauce. Maybe some coated (seasoned) frozen potatoes.
I think that's not an untypical kind of day for a lot of people - Most of those things are mass produced.
Although I sure the companies producing them use only the finest ingredients and to hell with the profit margins!
Can you honestly say you do not 'personally' know anyone that barely eats a bit of fruit or veg! I know loads.
This was the original statement in the quote string that started all of this:Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
You've gone from a discussion of clean eating vs. a wide diet with all foods in moderation to a discussion comparing clean eating vs. only packaged/fast food and almost no veggies. You're shifting the goal posts wildly.
Straw man argument.
How is my post straw man? I was answering the post about eating a wide diet in moderation was unhealtier than eating a 'clean diet'.
If a lot of the items on your wider diet (like SAD) are mass produced (multi-ingredient) and you eat each of them in moderation, a majority of your food is still mass produced!
why did you put mass produced next to multi-ingredient?????
mass produced and one ingredient
the incredible edible egg
http://www.uspoultry.org/economic_data/
I put multi ingredient next to mass produced so people didn't say stuff like - Yeah but what about eggs and apples - their healthy and mass produced.
Although I doubt anyone would be that obvious.
Maybe I've been around these forums too long. Although it is good to tussle with the trolls, from time to time! lol
*yawn* troll comment again.
Funny how everyone else is a troll, but I assume that you do not think you are.
I would recommend looking up the definition of troll.
Well I'm not the one hijacking a thread!
Who is and how are they doing so?
0 -
ffs..double quotes, double quotes errywhere!!0
-
SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »ArleneMobley wrote: »soldiergrl_101, I can't say I know the difference between the two. But I eliminated packaged foods, added lots of fruits/veggies, drank protein shakes (made w/almond milk) and lots of water. Added Quinoa for extra protein. I did this 3 months, lost 35 lbs. and my health was much better. I am no longer taking prescriptions for acid reflux and didn't have to start on medicine to lower my blood pressure. What I did wrong, was to slowly go back to the old habits and gained back part of the weight. Now, the arthritis has flared back up, so I am going back to clean eating! Hope this helps!
You make your own almond milk? And protein powder?
I doubt it....they probably just fit into her definition of "clean eating"
So many different definitions
"Eliminated packaged foods" really leaves no room for interpretation. I'm just keepin' it real
Maybe she found a place that sells them without packaging
Isn't it hard to get things home if they aren't in packages? The liquids in particular seem like they might be problematic. And all that quinoa - do you just put it in your pockets?
0 -
Actually, if they were doing real paleo, they wouldn't be eating cow. Because cows didn't exist. Aurochs did, but not cows.SnuggleSmacks wrote: »SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »My co workers are big paleo diet eaters. Who eats a burger with no bread. They do.
Ask them how cavemen ground up the meat
Also, ask them how long it took to hunt down the cow.
0 -
So if Paleo claims no processing... how does this work?
paleobread.com0 -
Take your pants off, tie a knot in one leg, fill with quinoa. Next caller. . . .SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »ArleneMobley wrote: »soldiergrl_101, I can't say I know the difference between the two. But I eliminated packaged foods, added lots of fruits/veggies, drank protein shakes (made w/almond milk) and lots of water. Added Quinoa for extra protein. I did this 3 months, lost 35 lbs. and my health was much better. I am no longer taking prescriptions for acid reflux and didn't have to start on medicine to lower my blood pressure. What I did wrong, was to slowly go back to the old habits and gained back part of the weight. Now, the arthritis has flared back up, so I am going back to clean eating! Hope this helps!
You make your own almond milk? And protein powder?
I doubt it....they probably just fit into her definition of "clean eating"
So many different definitions
"Eliminated packaged foods" really leaves no room for interpretation. I'm just keepin' it real
Maybe she found a place that sells them without packaging
Isn't it hard to get things home if they aren't in packages? The liquids in particular seem like they might be problematic. And all that quinoa - do you just put it in your pockets?
0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
So prove it. 'Pretty sure' doesn't cut it.
Also note the phrase 'in moderation'. I wouldn't recommend living on ready meals exclusively, but one or so a day isn't going to harm you.
No, but how untypical a day would it be to say have:
MacDonalds breakfast
Cereal bar
Microwavable lunch of description
Bag of crisps
For dinner Chicken and a pre-made jar of sauce. Maybe some coated (seasoned) frozen potatoes.
I think that's not an untypical kind of day for a lot of people - Most of those things are mass produced.
Although I sure the companies producing them use only the finest ingredients and to hell with the profit margins!
Can you honestly say you do not 'personally' know anyone that barely eats a bit of fruit or veg! I know loads.
This was the original statement in the quote string that started all of this:Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
You've gone from a discussion of clean eating vs. a wide diet with all foods in moderation to a discussion comparing clean eating vs. only packaged/fast food and almost no veggies. You're shifting the goal posts wildly.
Straw man argument.
How is my post straw man? I was answering the post about eating a wide diet in moderation was unhealtier than eating a 'clean diet'.
If a lot of the items on your wider diet (like SAD) are mass produced (multi-ingredient) and you eat each of them in moderation, a majority of your food is still mass produced!
why did you put mass produced next to multi-ingredient?????
mass produced and one ingredient
the incredible edible egg
http://www.uspoultry.org/economic_data/
I put multi ingredient next to mass produced so people didn't say stuff like - Yeah but what about eggs and apples - their healthy and mass produced.
Although I doubt anyone would be that obvious.
Maybe I've been around these forums too long. Although it is good to tussle with the trolls, from time to time! lol
*yawn* troll comment again.
Funny how everyone else is a troll, but I assume that you do not think you are.
I would recommend looking up the definition of troll.
Well I'm not the one hijacking a thread!
Who is and how are they doing so?
Seriously, have you seen the first page. There was only about legitimate (non hijacking) posts on the whole page!!!!
0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
polyunsaturated fats are good for you.
Are they? it's a fat that goes rancid easily and is not stable at high temperatures! I think in the eighties it was lorded as a safe replacement to saturated fat.
That's back in the day when science and nutritional understanding was still pretty primitive. Science has now caught up (well catching) and guess what, that's right, turns out it was saturated fat that's was good for us and not the other way round..... who would have guessed!
In fact polyunsaturated is good to a degree - well only omega 3!
That's your premise for healthy or not? something that goes rancid easily and is not stable at higher temperatures?
Well in that case- I'm going to stop eating oranges and chicken.
1.) my orange I only consumed 2 slices of started molding within 2 days of cutting.
and
2.) my chicken breast exploded out of the microwave when I heated it up.
looks like my list of dietary restrictions just got more specific.
Did you eat your orange when it was moldy? - or did you chuck the moldy bit away!!
I'll be honest I've already dropped moldy orange from my diet!
That logic does not even follow the example.
Edited to fix effed up quotes.
???? what ?????tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Unless you have a defined medical condition, like Crohn's or epilepsy or IBS (to a degree) or a very few other conditions, eating clean is meaningless and has no discernable fat loss or health benefits over a wider diet where foods are consumed in moderation.
Really?
I'm pretty sure its healthier to eat home prepared meals each day than mass produced microwavable ready meals!
I'm pretty sure If you did eat mass produced ready meals each day, your levels of inflammation and oxidation would be higher than if you ate home prepared food.
My reasoning behind this is you would definitely be eating increased amounts of Man made transfats, Interesterified Fats and polyunsaturated fats.
polyunsaturated fats are good for you.
Are they? it's a fat that goes rancid easily and is not stable at high temperatures! I think in the eighties it was lorded as a safe replacement to saturated fat.
That's back in the day when science and nutritional understanding was still pretty primitive. Science has now caught up (well catching) and guess what, that's right, turns out it was saturated fat that's was good for us and not the other way round..... who would have guessed!
In fact polyunsaturated is good to a degree - well only omega 3!
That's your premise for healthy or not? something that goes rancid easily and is not stable at higher temperatures?
Well in that case- I'm going to stop eating oranges and chicken.
1.) my orange I only consumed 2 slices of started molding within 2 days of cutting.
and
2.) my chicken breast exploded out of the microwave when I heated it up.
looks like my list of dietary restrictions just got more specific.
Did you eat your orange when it was moldy? - or did you chuck the moldy bit away!!
I'll be honest I've already dropped moldy orange from my diet!
That logic does not even follow the example.
Edited to fix effed up quotes.
???? what ?????
What exactly are you asking?
How my logic doesn't follow the example.
I was trying to confirm that in the example of the moldy orange, that the orange was consumed.
0 -
I have not read all the replies…
but I am in…because this should be fun ..
and OP - I say…neither..just eat in a deficit and enjoy the foods you like and you will do fine.0 -
I've definitely seen a LOT of posters who claim to hate "all vegetables" and never eat them. And I've seen a lot of diaries with no vegetables, or fruits.lemurcat12 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »Does anyone not eat veggies at all?
There are a surprising number of posts on MFP from people who claim to be unable to eat them. I've even seen posts from people who claim to "eat clean" who don't eat them. They seem to think that not eating bread or some such makes a diet healthy, even if it's vegetable-free.
Not my business, but I hope they at least take a multi.0 -
Eating clean is a *kitten*, and mildly derogatory term dubbed to make money
Paleo is a diet plan based off fallacies of what paleolithic people ate in order to make money
They are just labels for people who like labels to feel better about themselves or other people.
I would counter that food not generally labled as "clean" - thinking fast food, highly processed boxed and canned food - make some people an awful lot more money than the clean camp. Food chains and medical bills come to mind....
Just saying.
OP - the general forums are a great place for bashing labels. To each their own. Find what makes you feel best. There are groups for paleo, primal, keto, whatever you might be interested in. They're a lot friendlier.
ahh yes the evil food overlords have enslaved us...0 -
-
soldiergrl_101 wrote: »I was just reading up on the Paleo diet haven't committed to anything yet still weighing my options. But reading it, it seems similar to eating clean, is it just a fancy name for the same thing? Has anyone had success using this diet
They are the same thing. Just reject both out of hand and do IIFYM. Much easier and way less hard. You're welcome.0
This discussion has been closed.
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