Guide to making claims based on experience

12467

Replies

  • WalkingAlong
    WalkingAlong Posts: 4,926 Member
    edited November 2014
    if you claim that research shows that IF can reduce the rate of cancer, you should provide that research.
    And if the person told you 3 books they read about the studies in? Does that suffice or do you need them to make it so you don't have to leave your chair or even your MFP tab?

    If someone told me studies suggest "x diet habits may have y benefits" I might politely ask where they heard that but I think even before that I'd just google it myself.
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
    edited November 2014
    RGv2 wrote: »
    RGv2 wrote: »
    ana3067 wrote: »

    *Nisbett, R. E., & Masuda, T. (2003). Culture and point of view. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 100, 11163-11175.
    2. *Masuda, T. & Nisbett, R. E. (2001). Attending holistically vs. analytically: Comparing the context sensitivity of Japanese and Americans. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 81, 922-934.
    3. 2. *Chua, H. F., Boland, J. E., & Nisbett, R. E. (2005). Cultural Variation in eye-movements during scene perception. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 102, 12629-12633.
    *Masuda, T., Russell, M. J., Chen, Y. Y., Hioki, K., Caplan, J. B. (2014). N400 incongruity effect in an episodic memory task reveals different strategies for handling irrelevant contextual information for Japanese than European Canadians. Cognitive Neuroscience, 5, 15-25.
    *Masuda, T., Wang, H., Ishii, K., & Ito, K. (2012). Do surrounding figures’ emotions affect the judgment of target figure’s emotion?: Comparing the patterns of eye-movement between European-Canadians, Asian-Canadians, Asian International Students, and Japanese. Frontier in Integrative Neuroscience, 6:72. doi: 10.3389/fnint.2012.00072.
    *Imada, T., Carlson, S. M., & Itakura, S. (2013). East-West cultural differences in context-sensitivity are evident in early childhood. Developmental Science, 16, 198-208.

    (the papers btw are all pretty interesting, I have been reading them for my cultural psychology methods class)

    The gym is really pretty interesting, i've been lifting to benefit my fitness. And i've learned a lot more about diet, exercise, and a healthy lifestyle by DOING rather than reading about it. I feel the benefits of barbell lifting and arc training far outweigh the gains of page turning, especially for anything this site is concerned with.

    So you don't believe in researching to learn more about and develop your understanding.

    Doh'kay....sounds good.

    I never said that, i do plenty of research, and i even post study links. However a personal example is that i learned more about fasted cardio by doing it then by reading about how it would eat away at all my muscles for fuel, which it doesn't.

    LOL....can I see where you read that? That's the first I've heard that..........ever.

    Really? Quick search...

    http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/should-you-do-cardio-empty-stomach

    http://www.jimstoppani.com/home/articles/fasted-cardio-in-the-morning?preview

    http://www.t-nation.com/training/fasted-cardio-eats-muscle

    When I dig through .com's and blogs....,I take them with a huge grain of salt.

    All of my research shows that you need to seriously deplete your body of energy before it's going to turn to muscle for energy.

  • 0somuchbetter0
    0somuchbetter0 Posts: 1,335 Member
    This is what I'm seeing:

    "I'm smarter/better/more successful than you because I have a PhD and I can read and site academic journal articles."

    "Yeah well I'm smarter/better/more successful than you because I lost XX lbs by doing X and Y and Z."

    :#
  • SingRunTing
    SingRunTing Posts: 2,604 Member
    if you claim that research shows that IF can reduce the rate of cancer, you should provide that research.
    And if the person told you 3 books they read about the studies in? Does that suffice or do you need them to make it so you don't have to leave your chair or even your MFP tab?

    If someone told me studies suggest "x diet habits may have y benefits" I might politely ask where they heard that but I think even before that I'd just google it myself.

    Did I say you didn't?? I didn't even participate in that thread. I'm just giving a timely example of a valid request to post your sources.

    If the source of your information is from a book, great. It's up to you whether you think its valid or not. A lot of people won't find it valid and want to read the actual studies. Slow your roll.
  • longtimeterp
    longtimeterp Posts: 623 Member
    edited November 2014
    RGv2 wrote: »
    RGv2 wrote: »
    RGv2 wrote: »
    ana3067 wrote: »

    *Nisbett, R. E., & Masuda, T. (2003). Culture and point of view. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 100, 11163-11175.
    2. *Masuda, T. & Nisbett, R. E. (2001). Attending holistically vs. analytically: Comparing the context sensitivity of Japanese and Americans. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 81, 922-934.
    3. 2. *Chua, H. F., Boland, J. E., & Nisbett, R. E. (2005). Cultural Variation in eye-movements during scene perception. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 102, 12629-12633.
    *Masuda, T., Russell, M. J., Chen, Y. Y., Hioki, K., Caplan, J. B. (2014). N400 incongruity effect in an episodic memory task reveals different strategies for handling irrelevant contextual information for Japanese than European Canadians. Cognitive Neuroscience, 5, 15-25.
    *Masuda, T., Wang, H., Ishii, K., & Ito, K. (2012). Do surrounding figures’ emotions affect the judgment of target figure’s emotion?: Comparing the patterns of eye-movement between European-Canadians, Asian-Canadians, Asian International Students, and Japanese. Frontier in Integrative Neuroscience, 6:72. doi: 10.3389/fnint.2012.00072.
    *Imada, T., Carlson, S. M., & Itakura, S. (2013). East-West cultural differences in context-sensitivity are evident in early childhood. Developmental Science, 16, 198-208.

    (the papers btw are all pretty interesting, I have been reading them for my cultural psychology methods class)

    The gym is really pretty interesting, i've been lifting to benefit my fitness. And i've learned a lot more about diet, exercise, and a healthy lifestyle by DOING rather than reading about it. I feel the benefits of barbell lifting and arc training far outweigh the gains of page turning, especially for anything this site is concerned with.

    So you don't believe in researching to learn more about and develop your understanding.

    Doh'kay....sounds good.

    I never said that, i do plenty of research, and i even post study links. However a personal example is that i learned more about fasted cardio by doing it then by reading about how it would eat away at all my muscles for fuel, which it doesn't.

    LOL....can I see where you read that? That's the first I've heard that..........ever.

    Really? Quick search...

    http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/should-you-do-cardio-empty-stomach

    http://www.jimstoppani.com/home/articles/fasted-cardio-in-the-morning?preview

    http://www.t-nation.com/training/fasted-cardio-eats-muscle

    I guess that's where our research differs. I don't dig through .com's and blogs...., or I take them with a huge grain of salt.

    All of my research shows that you need to seriously deplete your body of energy before it's going to turn to muscle for energy.

    Well i wouldn't call a google search and subsequent listing of a few top results from sites deemed somewhat reputable in the fitness community (t-nation, eh, dunno about that place lol) as digging. And for the MAJORITY of people on this site, that's EXACTLY what they do and that's the information they will see. Scholarly databases are not something i assume the general public goes to first for diet and fitness advice, but that's just my opinion.
  • SingRunTing
    SingRunTing Posts: 2,604 Member
    RGv2 wrote: »
    RGv2 wrote: »
    RGv2 wrote: »
    ana3067 wrote: »

    *Nisbett, R. E., & Masuda, T. (2003). Culture and point of view. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 100, 11163-11175.
    2. *Masuda, T. & Nisbett, R. E. (2001). Attending holistically vs. analytically: Comparing the context sensitivity of Japanese and Americans. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 81, 922-934.
    3. 2. *Chua, H. F., Boland, J. E., & Nisbett, R. E. (2005). Cultural Variation in eye-movements during scene perception. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 102, 12629-12633.
    *Masuda, T., Russell, M. J., Chen, Y. Y., Hioki, K., Caplan, J. B. (2014). N400 incongruity effect in an episodic memory task reveals different strategies for handling irrelevant contextual information for Japanese than European Canadians. Cognitive Neuroscience, 5, 15-25.
    *Masuda, T., Wang, H., Ishii, K., & Ito, K. (2012). Do surrounding figures’ emotions affect the judgment of target figure’s emotion?: Comparing the patterns of eye-movement between European-Canadians, Asian-Canadians, Asian International Students, and Japanese. Frontier in Integrative Neuroscience, 6:72. doi: 10.3389/fnint.2012.00072.
    *Imada, T., Carlson, S. M., & Itakura, S. (2013). East-West cultural differences in context-sensitivity are evident in early childhood. Developmental Science, 16, 198-208.

    (the papers btw are all pretty interesting, I have been reading them for my cultural psychology methods class)

    The gym is really pretty interesting, i've been lifting to benefit my fitness. And i've learned a lot more about diet, exercise, and a healthy lifestyle by DOING rather than reading about it. I feel the benefits of barbell lifting and arc training far outweigh the gains of page turning, especially for anything this site is concerned with.

    So you don't believe in researching to learn more about and develop your understanding.

    Doh'kay....sounds good.

    I never said that, i do plenty of research, and i even post study links. However a personal example is that i learned more about fasted cardio by doing it then by reading about how it would eat away at all my muscles for fuel, which it doesn't.

    LOL....can I see where you read that? That's the first I've heard that..........ever.

    Really? Quick search...

    http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/should-you-do-cardio-empty-stomach

    http://www.jimstoppani.com/home/articles/fasted-cardio-in-the-morning?preview

    http://www.t-nation.com/training/fasted-cardio-eats-muscle

    I guess that's where our research differs. I don't dig through .com's and blogs...., or I take them with a huge grain of salt.

    All of my research shows that you need to seriously deplete your body of energy before it's going to turn to muscle for energy.

    Well i wouldn't call a google search and subsequent listing of a few top results from sites deemed somewhat reputable in the fitness community (t-nation, eh, dunno about that place lol) as digging. And for the MAJORITY of people on this site, that's EXACTLY what they do and that's the information they will see. Scholarly databases are not something i assume the general public goes to first for diet and fitness advice, but that's just my opinion.

    You're right. But that's why the general public gets so confused on how to lose weight. They believe everything they read without digging to find the credibility of that information. It's a weakness of modern society.

    Shame on us on trying to figure out what's actually backed by science and what's not.
  • longtimeterp
    longtimeterp Posts: 623 Member
    edited November 2014
    if you claim that research shows that IF can reduce the rate of cancer, you should provide that research.
    And if the person told you 3 books they read about the studies in? Does that suffice or do you need them to make it so you don't have to leave your chair or even your MFP tab?

    If someone told me studies suggest "x diet habits may have y benefits" I might politely ask where they heard that but I think even before that I'd just google it myself.

    Did I say you didn't?? I didn't even participate in that thread. I'm just giving a timely example of a valid request to post your sources.

    If the source of your information is from a book, great. It's up to you whether you think its valid or not. A lot of people won't find it valid and want to read the actual studies. Slow your roll.
    a lot of people are not going to be reading research studies, much less understanding them if they do. I would say less than 10% of the people i've met outside of graduate school (and these threads) have ever read a study...especially for primary diet advice...
  • WalkingAlong
    WalkingAlong Posts: 4,926 Member
    if you claim that research shows that IF can reduce the rate of cancer, you should provide that research.
    And if the person told you 3 books they read about the studies in? Does that suffice or do you need them to make it so you don't have to leave your chair or even your MFP tab?

    If someone told me studies suggest "x diet habits may have y benefits" I might politely ask where they heard that but I think even before that I'd just google it myself.

    Did I say you didn't?? I didn't even participate in that thread. I'm just giving a timely example of a valid request to post your sources.

    If the source of your information is from a book, great. It's up to you whether you think its valid or not. A lot of people won't find it valid and want to read the actual studies. Slow your roll.
    I don't know what "slow your roll" means but I agree that it's up to each to read the studies that interest them and decide what to them is valid and meaningful. The original thread had people saying, "If you don't post the studies then I (who have read exactly nothing on the topic) proclaim it bull$hit."
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
    RGv2 wrote: »
    RGv2 wrote: »
    RGv2 wrote: »
    ana3067 wrote: »

    *Nisbett, R. E., & Masuda, T. (2003). Culture and point of view. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 100, 11163-11175.
    2. *Masuda, T. & Nisbett, R. E. (2001). Attending holistically vs. analytically: Comparing the context sensitivity of Japanese and Americans. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 81, 922-934.
    3. 2. *Chua, H. F., Boland, J. E., & Nisbett, R. E. (2005). Cultural Variation in eye-movements during scene perception. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 102, 12629-12633.
    *Masuda, T., Russell, M. J., Chen, Y. Y., Hioki, K., Caplan, J. B. (2014). N400 incongruity effect in an episodic memory task reveals different strategies for handling irrelevant contextual information for Japanese than European Canadians. Cognitive Neuroscience, 5, 15-25.
    *Masuda, T., Wang, H., Ishii, K., & Ito, K. (2012). Do surrounding figures’ emotions affect the judgment of target figure’s emotion?: Comparing the patterns of eye-movement between European-Canadians, Asian-Canadians, Asian International Students, and Japanese. Frontier in Integrative Neuroscience, 6:72. doi: 10.3389/fnint.2012.00072.
    *Imada, T., Carlson, S. M., & Itakura, S. (2013). East-West cultural differences in context-sensitivity are evident in early childhood. Developmental Science, 16, 198-208.

    (the papers btw are all pretty interesting, I have been reading them for my cultural psychology methods class)

    The gym is really pretty interesting, i've been lifting to benefit my fitness. And i've learned a lot more about diet, exercise, and a healthy lifestyle by DOING rather than reading about it. I feel the benefits of barbell lifting and arc training far outweigh the gains of page turning, especially for anything this site is concerned with.

    So you don't believe in researching to learn more about and develop your understanding.

    Doh'kay....sounds good.

    I never said that, i do plenty of research, and i even post study links. However a personal example is that i learned more about fasted cardio by doing it then by reading about how it would eat away at all my muscles for fuel, which it doesn't.

    LOL....can I see where you read that? That's the first I've heard that..........ever.

    Really? Quick search...

    http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/should-you-do-cardio-empty-stomach

    http://www.jimstoppani.com/home/articles/fasted-cardio-in-the-morning?preview

    http://www.t-nation.com/training/fasted-cardio-eats-muscle

    I guess that's where our research differs. I don't dig through .com's and blogs...., or I take them with a huge grain of salt.

    All of my research shows that you need to seriously deplete your body of energy before it's going to turn to muscle for energy.

    Well i wouldn't call a google search and subsequent listing of a few top results from sites deemed somewhat reputable in the fitness community (t-nation, eh, dunno about that place lol) as digging. And for the MAJORITY of people on this site, that's EXACTLY what they do and that's the information they will see. Scholarly databases are not something i assume the general public goes to first for diet and fitness advice, but that's just my opinion.

    You're right. But that's why the general public gets so confused on how to lose weight. They believe everything they read without digging to find the credibility of that information. It's a weakness of modern society.

    Shame on us on trying to figure out what's actually backed by science and what's not.

    ^^^Yep....this is the point.
  • SingRunTing
    SingRunTing Posts: 2,604 Member
    if you claim that research shows that IF can reduce the rate of cancer, you should provide that research.
    And if the person told you 3 books they read about the studies in? Does that suffice or do you need them to make it so you don't have to leave your chair or even your MFP tab?

    If someone told me studies suggest "x diet habits may have y benefits" I might politely ask where they heard that but I think even before that I'd just google it myself.

    Did I say you didn't?? I didn't even participate in that thread. I'm just giving a timely example of a valid request to post your sources.

    If the source of your information is from a book, great. It's up to you whether you think its valid or not. A lot of people won't find it valid and want to read the actual studies. Slow your roll.
    a lot of people are not going to be reading research studies, much less understanding them if they do. I would say less than 10% of the people i've met outside of graduate school (and these threads) have ever read a study...especially for primary diet advice...

    Ok, fine.

    People with science backgrounds, who understand that SOME books cherry pick or flat out misinterpret the studies they use, MAY not consider books valid sources for science information. They MAY want to read the studies to interpret the results for themselves to see if the claims made in the book are supported.

    Is that better?

    There are actually some people on here who do read studies on a regular basis. I'm not saying that everyone does, but please don't think that no one does.
  • DeWoSa
    DeWoSa Posts: 496 Member
    v4aamvz3axrh.jpg
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
    if you claim that research shows that IF can reduce the rate of cancer, you should provide that research.
    And if the person told you 3 books they read about the studies in? Does that suffice or do you need them to make it so you don't have to leave your chair or even your MFP tab?

    If someone told me studies suggest "x diet habits may have y benefits" I might politely ask where they heard that but I think even before that I'd just google it myself.

    just...let...it...go...

    for realz....
  • Iwishyouwell
    Iwishyouwell Posts: 1,888 Member
    The science and conjecture behind the mechanics of weight is always fascinating to me, but the "whose study is bigger" pissing contests around here are the definition of tedious. Nine times out of ten that's just an instant scroll for me.

    The overwhelming majority of people still put great stock in anecdotal evidence. The theories behind how to lose a 100 pounds are awesome, but most people will naturally gravitate toward the person(s) who actually lost 100 lbs and want to hear how they did it.

    There's a place for both. But yes, on all sides, there are those of us who just love to debate and argue for the sake of.
  • malibu927
    malibu927 Posts: 17,565 Member
    FredDoyle wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    I think that science and anecdote can both have a place on these boards. The problem becomes when people confuse one for the other.

    yes, or use flawed personal experience as evidence…

    Like " i cut all sugar and lost weight; hence, sugar is bad for me and made me gain weight"…no, because you can eat sugar and lose weight …

    *shrugs*

    if someone experiences something personally, how can it be flawed for them?

    Really? For ages I always drove a blue truck and was overweight, but when I got a new white one I had no problem losing weight. True story.
    Conclusion, blue vehicles are worse for weight loss.

    But I've driven a blue car for a decade and I'm losing! So you must be wrong!
  • malibu927
    malibu927 Posts: 17,565 Member
    MrM27 wrote: »
    malibu927 wrote: »
    FredDoyle wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    I think that science and anecdote can both have a place on these boards. The problem becomes when people confuse one for the other.

    yes, or use flawed personal experience as evidence…

    Like " i cut all sugar and lost weight; hence, sugar is bad for me and made me gain weight"…no, because you can eat sugar and lose weight …

    *shrugs*

    if someone experiences something personally, how can it be flawed for them?

    Really? For ages I always drove a blue truck and was overweight, but when I got a new white one I had no problem losing weight. True story.
    Conclusion, blue vehicles are worse for weight loss.

    But I've driven a blue car for a decade and I'm losing! So you must be wrong!
    He said truck not car. Pay attention!!!

    What, I'm supposed to read every detail of the post before bringing in my own conclusions? That's impossible!
  • ithrowconfetti
    ithrowconfetti Posts: 451 Member
    Quit trying to kill people faster. Cake contains toxic baking soda.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,879 Member
    My issue with "claims based on experience" is that most people very quickly make spurious correlations.