Guys, stop with the orthorexia already!

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Replies

  • jazzyjez
    jazzyjez Posts: 35 Member
    mfp2014mfp wrote: »
    Honestly I see more people bashing 'orthorexia' than people with that particular issue. The former is becoming more annoying than the latter.

    +1
  • Elsie_Brownraisin
    Elsie_Brownraisin Posts: 786 Member
    edited February 2015
    dbmata wrote: »
    Let people do what they want? You can't make a person choose logic over ignorance.

    Wanna bet?

    By year's end we'll have more than a few states removing "philosophical and religious" vaccine exemptions.

    'Vaccinate your kids'



    Bloody idiots.

    Off topic. ETA - I didn't realise it'd come up as a big video. Even more off topic. I don't have anything useful to add to this conversation.

  • tomatoey
    tomatoey Posts: 5,459 Member
    edited February 2015
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomatoey wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomatoey wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomatoey wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomatoey wrote: »
    Guess what. In order to not be overweight or obese and avoid related risks, you have to be a little weird, at least in our society.

    Disagree strongly.

    Also, the idea that someone being "gluten free" in our culture is being countercultural (or even weird) is like the idea that long hair on men in the late 60s or early 70s was bucking the system and being an individual, man. It was just trendy in a different social group. Being into food restrictions is totally trendy in many US (and probably other English-speaking country) subcultures.

    Orthorexia specifically is about clean foods, yes, but we all have to make conscious adaptations to prevent overweight, obesity, regain, etc. Some of these adaptations, like calorie counting, demand what some might call slightly obsessional behaviour. You really don't think, in your heart of hearts, that calorie counting is a little weird? Really? I did it for years and am doing it now, and it's much easier than it was when I first-first started, but I still think it's a little weird.

    (Also, why didn't you include the rest of that paragraph in your quote, where I said basically what I just repeated above?)

    Calorie counting is just as weird as orthorexia, imo.

    First, I went back and checked, and no, what you said is nothing like what I said, and I continue to disagree with it. It is NOT true that one has to be "psychologically abnormal" to avoid being overweight, let alone obese, and I further don't agree that counting calories, doing one of the many other things possible to monitor food amounts, or even being into food-related trends like low carb or paleo or gluten free is, in fact, psychologically abnormal. Some of it is trendy, however. It's sad if it goes over into orthorexia territory, but I suspect that has more to do with preexisting tendencies that are channeled in that particular way rather than dieting being the actual cause.

    And your later post that claims cooking requires some kind of weirdness in our society is just, well, weird. Cooking is pretty normal and standard among people I know, at least those who are married and have children (and a great many or most of the single women as well). It's part of being responsible.

    In any event, the issue with orthorexia is not that it's weird, rather obviously.

    Calorie counting is definitely statistically abnormal, for one thing, plain and simple - most people don't do it. It also appears to require significant learning that involves complex emotional reactions and pragmatic difficulties. The entirety of MFP's forums speaks to the difficulties people have with calorie counting. It's not normal.

    Statistically uncommon does not mean psychologically abnormal, as you claimed.

    Yes, it's uncommon because it's a hassle and until recently was more of one, and because lots of people don't need to do it or wish to.

    I didn't claim it was? I clearly distinguished between the two.

    Yup, it is a hassle. Why is it a hassle? Because the tendency is for people to gain weight in the culture and systems in which we now live. This is a new thing. Historically, it wasn't the case. It is a result of social and economic changes. I really don't know how it's possible to argue otherwise, outside of willful blindness.

    In your first post that I originally quoted you said not psychologically normal. If you are changing your position, good, but be open about it.

    To prove my point, here's the quote: "It is not exactly psychologically normal to count calories for a lifetime, yet that is what many will have to do to keep it off long-term."

    It's a hassle because it requires doing something vs. not doing something. Same with all sorts of things we should do. I addressed why gaining weight is an issue now and wasn't in the past and your need to see that as some victim thing vs. the result of food availability (a good thing) and freedom of choice (fewer social norms re eating) is odd to me.

    "victim thing"? If you reject statistics, sociology, economics, biology, and just anything beyond the "power of the individual", I'm not sure there's more to say to you.

    I haven't changed my position at all, read the posts again if you like.

    I've said all I really want to bother with at this point.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    tomatoey wrote: »
    If you reject statistics, sociology, economics, biology, and just anything beyond the "power of the individual", I'm not sure there's more to say to you.

    No one rejected any of these things, and your quote can't be found anywhere in my posts. You claimed psychological abnormality and then decided to claim that you only meant "unusual in terms of numbers."
  • snikkins
    snikkins Posts: 1,282 Member
    The more I think about it, the more I realize why I find the idea of orthorexia interesting: it comes with its own defense mechanism, for both the self and people around. "I'm just choosing to eat healthy." (Before anyone gets upset, I'm not suggesting that anyone here has orthorexia.) In college, I knew a girl who hid her anorexia through claiming to be allergic to corn. Automatically, no one could question why she wasn't eating whatever meal with the rest of us because corn is so prevalent in many things. The point being, she had to come up with a way to stop the uncomfortable questions, whereas with orthorexia, it's already there.

    As for discussions of this occurring in dieting forums, for many, eating disordered thinking starts from a feeling of lack of control, which I think many new dieters have (feelings of being out of control), and I think this is why it is important to not write it off as "less important" than some other problems. Of course, not everyone is going to develop orthorexia from whatever restrictive diet he/she chooses, but not everyone will develop anorexia from calorie counting, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,534 Member
    edited February 2015
    Kruggeri wrote: »
    The people you are seeing posting in the forums with all the stress and anxiety are likely new to the MFP tool (maybe not new to dieting) and as they become more comfortable you usually see less questions, a more relaxed approach, and often times a desire to return to the forums to help other newbies.

    That happens for some. Far more simply quit and disappear.

    The previous poster is correct - long-term calorie counting is neither "normal" nor "easy". For the vast majority of people it is, in reality, unsustainable.
  • jazzyjez
    jazzyjez Posts: 35 Member
    There's a lot of great discussion on this board, but as soon as you start bashing people with generalities you become what you are complaining about.

    So true, how life has changed so much in the last century, and our thinking about how we sustain ourselves through nutrition has been changed by so many factors, while our needs have also been changing.

    Science getting it right and wrong: formula is better than breast milk? Eggs are bad for you? (I'm not bashing science! Just sometimes people get on the wrong (gluten-free) band wagon.)
    Means: when you're poor, food is good if you have a large quantity of it. When you're wealthy, food is good when it looks beautiful on the plate. I still have my grandmothers' depression mode thoughts about food (finish what's on your plate!) deep inside my brain, when our family is not lacking in the means to provide food!
    Availability: Food is at every function. My kids get offered candy and low-nutrition snacks every time I turn around. This is building a BELIEF in them that they need to eat sugar on the hour!
    Caloric Need: Portions have gone up everywhere (value! for the consumer), while our caloric needs have decreased based on lifestyle changes
    Beliefs: The hardest thing to change - you don't even know you have them - they are so deep-rooted. I BELIEVED that I needed to serve a generous grain of some kind with every meal. That's how my mom cooked, and she made great meals and I was in great shape growing up.

    Life is much simpler when you have a culture around these things - what you eat when and how much of it being predetermined by generations.

    Things change so fast. I'm just trying to keep up. So many of the lessons my parents taught me seem irrelevant to what my kids need today.

    Anyway, this thread has been thought-provoking. I just always think that bashing people for not having self-control or will power is looking shallow instead of deep.

  • amf0324
    amf0324 Posts: 46 Member
    amf0324 wrote: »
    "Gluten free" is only getting out of hand in terms of the number of people who don't have Celiac. For those of us that do... I appreciate getting smacked in the face with all of those GF labels.

    Now if only I could get restaurants to take me seriously instead of laughing me off as just another fad dieter...
    I know it is a problem for people that actually have Celiac, but you have to keep in mind that there is a plethora of people with all sorts of eating restrictions that will pass it off for allergies. New Years Eve I had a table of six where 3 of them said they were very allergic to onions and I told the waiter that unfortunately I couldn't guarantee any cross contamination and suggested just having dessert and even then I mentioned cross contamination....... the waiter came back and said, don't worry as long as they don't see any onions they should be alright. This causes all sorts of problems for people that are actually allergic to one thing or another and I must take all inquiries seriously, so I suspect you are taken seriously except in the kitchen we know through experience that most are nothing more than eating irregularities.

    I know. And I agree. It makes my life harder bc no one takes me seriously. How do you convince someone you actually have an autoimmune disease with these fools walking around?
  • jennifershoo
    jennifershoo Posts: 3,209 Member
    I see a lot of the apple cider vinegar with the cinnamon,lemon and whatever else is in it thing, people on my facebook are doing. then when you tell them that doesnt work because it wont burn fat they tell you,well Im trying it anyway it cant hurt blah blah blah.Then you have people who are like OMG it does work Ive lost like X amount of pounds.I ask them are you eating less and moving more? the answer is yes then I tell them that is why they are losing weight not the ACV

    Not justifying a fad, but my grandmother has drank ACV, lemon, water, and honey every morning since I can remember (at least 20 years). It's her morning cleanse. Whether or not it works is debatable, but she'll be 85 this year and still tends to a beautiful vegetable garden and chickens.

    My grandma is 85. She cooks and clean all day long and her brain is in good shape. She doesn't dring ACV, lemon water nor do cleanses.
  • obscuremusicreference
    obscuremusicreference Posts: 1,320 Member
    This thread is as bad as those things you are all bashing. It's the same dang thing - group clamouring about being right and how everyone else is wrong and stupid.
    -
    I just joined and THIS is the first impression I get?

    Why not stop being so insecure? You are bothered by what those "stupid people " say only if it somehow makes you insecure about your own path. Personally, also have medical reasons to need to eat certain foods and not others but I don't care if half of Facebook is claiming that you should stuff a whole pineapple up your butt to be healthy. How does it harm me what othrrs think?

    I follow what is right for me... not this lot or some other group.

    Hey, sorry you made your first stop a random thread from the seventh forum down. I'd thank you for your valuable contribution, but I'm not bothered by the thoughts of others.

    As to the topic at hand, I feel that the worry over whether orthorexia is a disorder is overblown. Everyone worries about food safety to some extent and obsessional diagnoses should cover the ones that are taking it too far, but why does everyone want to wear a diagnosis as a badge of honor these days? And if you really do have an all-consuming and uncontrollable paranoia about what you're eating, would you really welcome a label?

    But everyone who is new to something obsesses over it at first. After months of quick-adding all of my calories, I've started tracking my macros--and I'm obsessed with protein and fiber. I am probably thinking about healthy food for three hours a day, which I believe is a symptom of orthorexia according to an online quiz I took. Everyone should just relax and have a Dorito.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    So I don't know if this is actually something I can blame on orthorexia--probably not, of course--but I did a search on amazon for different sorts of cricket-based products (because of a discussion elsewhere on MFP), and now I'm getting an ad for Larvets here (look it up), and when I went to amazon to look at a book it started pushing the cricket flour. Fabulous!

    For the record, neither of my grandmothers lived particularly long lives (although both spend a good bit of their lives on farms), and I am 100% sure neither would have eaten Larvets.
  • gothchiq
    gothchiq Posts: 4,597 Member
    I would say that this forum is characterized by the diametric opposite of orthorexia.
  • exlibrissilvio
    exlibrissilvio Posts: 69 Member
    edited February 2015
    This thread is BS. The majority of you are all a part of this oversensitive-politically correct-
    "I'm offended by everything" generation. You wanna talk about hive mentality? How about this thread and all you who think you know what you're talking about.

    "OMG I READ SOMETHING ON BUZZFEED ABOUT THIS--I'M AN EXPERT!"

    What other people do is none of your business. If someone wants to be picky about their food, let them be. If they try to tell you that you're wrong, they're zealous. But still, none of your business. You get so hyped up and PERSONALLY OFFENDED by other people's lives that you have started a SHAMING THREAD about it? Get over yourselves. I will be as picky as I damned well please, and I doubt most of you are qualified to be medically or psychologically labeling anyone ANYTHING.

    *drops the mic*
  • This thread is BS. The majority of you are all a part of this oversensitive-politically correct-
    "I'm offended by everything" generation. You wanna talk about hive mentality? How about this? What other people do is none of your business. If someone wants to be picky about their food, let them be. If they try to tell you that you're wrong, they're zealous. But still, none of your business. You get so hyped up and PERSONALLY OFFENDED by other people's lives that you have started a SHAMING THREAD about it? Get over yourselves. I will be as picky as I damned well please, and I doubt most of you are qualified to be medically or psychologically labeling anyone ANYTHING.

    *drops the mic*

    I take offence to this!
  • tomatoey
    tomatoey Posts: 5,459 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomatoey wrote: »
    If you reject statistics, sociology, economics, biology, and just anything beyond the "power of the individual", I'm not sure there's more to say to you.

    No one rejected any of these things, and your quote can't be found anywhere in my posts. You claimed psychological abnormality and then decided to claim that you only meant "unusual in terms of numbers."

    I talked about both statistical ("for one thing") and psychological/functional abnormality, and I distinguished between the two. At no time did I contradict myself.
  • OGJake12
    OGJake12 Posts: 177 Member
    edited February 2015
    mfp2014mfp wrote: »
    Honestly I see more people bashing 'orthorexia' than people with that particular issue. The former is becoming more annoying than the latter.

    Quote of the day. People have their own ways that work for them, better than those who aren't doing anything. How is it any of our f***** business how someone decides to eat?
  • sam_the_girl
    sam_the_girl Posts: 53 Member
    My mom and dad are gluten free, I have decided to go vegan, my husband hunts things and we all get along. I feel like people should just eat what they want if that's their person choice. I don't preach to people about my choice to be vegan yet believe me, people have plenty to say about MY CHOICE. I can see it getting annoying when people get preachy about their diet but on the reverse side, please keep your opinions to yourself when you find out someone is on a special diet. You don't know their reasons for it and discussing it is as annoying to me as debating politics, you're not going to sway the other side so what's the point but pissing someone off?
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,534 Member
    You get so hyped up and PERSONALLY OFFENDED by other people's lives that you have started a SHAMING THREAD about it? Get over yourselves.

    You're my new hero.

    :drinker:


  • OGJake12
    OGJake12 Posts: 177 Member
    Mr_Knight wrote: »
    You get so hyped up and PERSONALLY OFFENDED by other people's lives that you have started a SHAMING THREAD about it? Get over yourselves.

    You're my new hero.

    :drinker:


    I second that.
  • SnuggleSmacks
    SnuggleSmacks Posts: 3,733 Member
    edited February 2015
    This thread has gone way off topic. Orthorexia is not about preaching your personal diet to other people, or being annoying. It's about having a gripping, life-altering fear of stepping outside of the dietary bounds you've set for yourself. Incidence of orthorexia seems to be on the rise, according to the original article and others like it, and my question was whether the current culture of making oneself a special snowflake by touting food "sensitivities" is a contributing factor, and whether that seems to be on the rise in the forum.