losing fat/ gaining muscle mass simutaneously
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Okay, it's possible to do both but very complicated (nutrition/meal timing etc) and not as efficient as bulk/cut cycles.
The fact that you're asking how to do it on a forum suggests you might not be up to the task (that's not a criticism, I know I couldn't do it). It would need tonnes of research, work and dedication and/or cost money for a coach.
If you're going ahead, you'd just set MFP to maintain and crack on with your training and nutrition programme.
It's honestly not that complicated. Get enough protein and get on a good routine. The only real difference between that and a bulk is that you eat at maintenance and not at a surplus.
You do not have to so anything special re meal time etc.
That's good to know Sara, as I'm going to take another crack at it myself next year. I tried it for around 3/4 months a couple of years back and didn't see any progress (hence the bulk/cut/bulk).
Programmes/sites I've looked at in the past looked overly complicated to me (and I put my own lack of discernible progress, at the time, down to not following them) but I could certainly be looking at the wrong ones. I have 4-6 weeks left of my bulk then god knows how long cutting before I decide so plenty of time for more research.
Its not quick...that is one disadvantage.
IMO, it really depends on the preferences. In a way, bulking and cutting is more complicated as you have water/food weight swings that make working out trends hard and then you have the challenges when cutting of being hungry(er), possible gym performance issues, making sure you are on point to minimize and muscle loss, upping protein comparatively. The bulk part is pretty easy though lol. Recomp is relatively easy - eat at maintenance and lift some stuff - although, as I (and you) mentioned, it can be very slow going.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how slow it is? Is it known how much fat loss/muscle gain can take place in a year (a range since there will always be personal variables)?
I'm just curios since I've seen people recomp when they give up on the last 5 or 10 pounds, and it can take them several years. With 20 pounds, would it be possible if he gave it enough time (and is that likely to be 10 years or something ridiculous)?0 -
Okay, it's possible to do both but very complicated (nutrition/meal timing etc) and not as efficient as bulk/cut cycles.
The fact that you're asking how to do it on a forum suggests you might not be up to the task (that's not a criticism, I know I couldn't do it). It would need tonnes of research, work and dedication and/or cost money for a coach.
If you're going ahead, you'd just set MFP to maintain and crack on with your training and nutrition programme.
It's honestly not that complicated. Get enough protein and get on a good routine. The only real difference between that and a bulk is that you eat at maintenance and not at a surplus.
You do not have to so anything special re meal time etc.
That's good to know Sara, as I'm going to take another crack at it myself next year. I tried it for around 3/4 months a couple of years back and didn't see any progress (hence the bulk/cut/bulk).
Programmes/sites I've looked at in the past looked overly complicated to me (and I put my own lack of discernible progress, at the time, down to not following them) but I could certainly be looking at the wrong ones. I have 4-6 weeks left of my bulk then god knows how long cutting before I decide so plenty of time for more research.
Its not quick...that is one disadvantage.
IMO, it really depends on the preferences. In a way, bulking and cutting is more complicated as you have water/food weight swings that make working out trends hard and then you have the challenges when cutting of being hungry(er), possible gym performance issues, making sure you are on point to minimize and muscle loss, upping protein comparatively. The bulk part is pretty easy though lol. Recomp is relatively easy - eat at maintenance and lift some stuff - although, as I (and you) mentioned, it can be very slow going.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how slow it is? Is it known how much fat loss/muscle gain can take place in a year (a range since there will always be personal variables)?
I'm just curios since I've seen people recomp when they give up on the last 5 or 10 pounds, and it can take them several years. With 20 pounds, would it be possible if he gave it enough time (and is that likely to be 10 years or something ridiculous)?
Impossible to put a generic timeframe on it, too many variables - male/female, trained/untrained, good genetics/poor genetics, fat/lean, good training/poor training, young/old etc. etc.
Don't know where people get the idea recomp is complex - eat, train, progress (OK I stole that phrase, sorry Sara and SideSteel). It really isn't anywhere as complex as someone attempting to be big, muscular and still very lean.
Recomp can be made complex (with calorie cycling, meal timing for example) but it's not compulsory.
But trying to recomp 20lbs is very, very, very ambitious. Really should be cutting slowly in my opinion.
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JimFsfitnesspal wrote: »
What point are you trying to make. Posting random links with no context is well...random.
he claims to have lost 20 pound of fat and gained 10 pounds of muscle in another thread…
mrm and I argue that his calculations are off..
I guess now he is just going spam any thread about gaining muscle while in a deficit...0 -
Okay, it's possible to do both but very complicated (nutrition/meal timing etc) and not as efficient as bulk/cut cycles.
The fact that you're asking how to do it on a forum suggests you might not be up to the task (that's not a criticism, I know I couldn't do it). It would need tonnes of research, work and dedication and/or cost money for a coach.
If you're going ahead, you'd just set MFP to maintain and crack on with your training and nutrition programme.
It's honestly not that complicated. Get enough protein and get on a good routine. The only real difference between that and a bulk is that you eat at maintenance and not at a surplus.
You do not have to so anything special re meal time etc.
That's good to know Sara, as I'm going to take another crack at it myself next year. I tried it for around 3/4 months a couple of years back and didn't see any progress (hence the bulk/cut/bulk).
Programmes/sites I've looked at in the past looked overly complicated to me (and I put my own lack of discernible progress, at the time, down to not following them) but I could certainly be looking at the wrong ones. I have 4-6 weeks left of my bulk then god knows how long cutting before I decide so plenty of time for more research.
Its not quick...that is one disadvantage.
IMO, it really depends on the preferences. In a way, bulking and cutting is more complicated as you have water/food weight swings that make working out trends hard and then you have the challenges when cutting of being hungry(er), possible gym performance issues, making sure you are on point to minimize and muscle loss, upping protein comparatively. The bulk part is pretty easy though lol. Recomp is relatively easy - eat at maintenance and lift some stuff - although, as I (and you) mentioned, it can be very slow going.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how slow it is? Is it known how much fat loss/muscle gain can take place in a year (a range since there will always be personal variables)?
I'm just curios since I've seen people recomp when they give up on the last 5 or 10 pounds, and it can take them several years. With 20 pounds, would it be possible if he gave it enough time (and is that likely to be 10 years or something ridiculous)?
most of what I have read on the topic says that it can take at least a year to see any appreciable gains…
if you have 20 pounds to lose, I would suggest cutting until it is gone then try the recomp and/or bulk ...0 -
JimFsfitnesspal wrote: »
What point are you trying to make. Posting random links with no context is well...random.
he claims to have lost 20 pound of fat and gained 10 pounds of muscle in another thread…
mrm and I argue that his calculations are off..
I guess now he is just going spam any thread about gaining muscle while in a deficit...
With or without "metabolic aids"?0 -
Okay, it's possible to do both but very complicated (nutrition/meal timing etc) and not as efficient as bulk/cut cycles.
The fact that you're asking how to do it on a forum suggests you might not be up to the task (that's not a criticism, I know I couldn't do it). It would need tonnes of research, work and dedication and/or cost money for a coach.
If you're going ahead, you'd just set MFP to maintain and crack on with your training and nutrition programme.
It's honestly not that complicated. Get enough protein and get on a good routine. The only real difference between that and a bulk is that you eat at maintenance and not at a surplus.
You do not have to so anything special re meal time etc.
That's good to know Sara, as I'm going to take another crack at it myself next year. I tried it for around 3/4 months a couple of years back and didn't see any progress (hence the bulk/cut/bulk).
Programmes/sites I've looked at in the past looked overly complicated to me (and I put my own lack of discernible progress, at the time, down to not following them) but I could certainly be looking at the wrong ones. I have 4-6 weeks left of my bulk then god knows how long cutting before I decide so plenty of time for more research.
Its not quick...that is one disadvantage.
IMO, it really depends on the preferences. In a way, bulking and cutting is more complicated as you have water/food weight swings that make working out trends hard and then you have the challenges when cutting of being hungry(er), possible gym performance issues, making sure you are on point to minimize and muscle loss, upping protein comparatively. The bulk part is pretty easy though lol. Recomp is relatively easy - eat at maintenance and lift some stuff - although, as I (and you) mentioned, it can be very slow going.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how slow it is? Is it known how much fat loss/muscle gain can take place in a year (a range since there will always be personal variables)?
I'm just curios since I've seen people recomp when they give up on the last 5 or 10 pounds, and it can take them several years. With 20 pounds, would it be possible if he gave it enough time (and is that likely to be 10 years or something ridiculous)?
Recomp is more for people who are happy at the weight they are at but want to change their appearance and can be very patient about it. I wouldn't generally recommend it for anyone who wasn't already fairly lean. If you only want to shed 5 or10 lbs of fat and want to gain 5 or 10lbs of muscle and can wait about a year or so for full results I would say recomp is a good idea but otherwise you are just going feel like you are spinning your wheels.0 -
Okay, it's possible to do both but very complicated (nutrition/meal timing etc) and not as efficient as bulk/cut cycles.
The fact that you're asking how to do it on a forum suggests you might not be up to the task (that's not a criticism, I know I couldn't do it). It would need tonnes of research, work and dedication and/or cost money for a coach.
If you're going ahead, you'd just set MFP to maintain and crack on with your training and nutrition programme.
It's honestly not that complicated. Get enough protein and get on a good routine. The only real difference between that and a bulk is that you eat at maintenance and not at a surplus.
You do not have to so anything special re meal time etc.
That's good to know Sara, as I'm going to take another crack at it myself next year. I tried it for around 3/4 months a couple of years back and didn't see any progress (hence the bulk/cut/bulk).
Programmes/sites I've looked at in the past looked overly complicated to me (and I put my own lack of discernible progress, at the time, down to not following them) but I could certainly be looking at the wrong ones. I have 4-6 weeks left of my bulk then god knows how long cutting before I decide so plenty of time for more research.
Its not quick...that is one disadvantage.
IMO, it really depends on the preferences. In a way, bulking and cutting is more complicated as you have water/food weight swings that make working out trends hard and then you have the challenges when cutting of being hungry(er), possible gym performance issues, making sure you are on point to minimize and muscle loss, upping protein comparatively. The bulk part is pretty easy though lol. Recomp is relatively easy - eat at maintenance and lift some stuff - although, as I (and you) mentioned, it can be very slow going.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how slow it is? Is it known how much fat loss/muscle gain can take place in a year (a range since there will always be personal variables)?
I'm just curios since I've seen people recomp when they give up on the last 5 or 10 pounds, and it can take them several years. With 20 pounds, would it be possible if he gave it enough time (and is that likely to be 10 years or something ridiculous)?
That's why I'm going to have another crack at it. Last years bulk/cut took me 9 months and I've no idea how long this one will take but I'm planning to (be patient and) 'recomp' for the same length of time and see how the methods compare.
I'm definitely in no hurry because in the past I've got to goal weight then just let things go. The current plan to just keep working on myself indefinitely seems to be working out better.
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From my experience, the best way to "gain" 10 lbs of muscle is to lose 20 lbs of fat. I lifted heavy and ate at a caloric deficit for a year and I totally changed how I looked. While I got stronger in all of my lifts, I probably just maintained the muscle mass that was under the layers of fat. But I now look better at 50 yrs old than I did at 25. Your approach (nutrition and training) should depend on your goals. Just my two cents....1
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I'm thinking that'll be my plan if I ever make it to goal. I doubt I'll ever have the willpower to get lean enough to justify a bulk.Okay, it's possible to do both but very complicated (nutrition/meal timing etc) and not as efficient as bulk/cut cycles.
The fact that you're asking how to do it on a forum suggests you might not be up to the task (that's not a criticism, I know I couldn't do it). It would need tonnes of research, work and dedication and/or cost money for a coach.
If you're going ahead, you'd just set MFP to maintain and crack on with your training and nutrition programme.
It's honestly not that complicated. Get enough protein and get on a good routine. The only real difference between that and a bulk is that you eat at maintenance and not at a surplus.
You do not have to so anything special re meal time etc.
That's good to know Sara, as I'm going to take another crack at it myself next year. I tried it for around 3/4 months a couple of years back and didn't see any progress (hence the bulk/cut/bulk).
Programmes/sites I've looked at in the past looked overly complicated to me (and I put my own lack of discernible progress, at the time, down to not following them) but I could certainly be looking at the wrong ones. I have 4-6 weeks left of my bulk then god knows how long cutting before I decide so plenty of time for more research.
Its not quick...that is one disadvantage.
IMO, it really depends on the preferences. In a way, bulking and cutting is more complicated as you have water/food weight swings that make working out trends hard and then you have the challenges when cutting of being hungry(er), possible gym performance issues, making sure you are on point to minimize and muscle loss, upping protein comparatively. The bulk part is pretty easy though lol. Recomp is relatively easy - eat at maintenance and lift some stuff - although, as I (and you) mentioned, it can be very slow going.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how slow it is? Is it known how much fat loss/muscle gain can take place in a year (a range since there will always be personal variables)?
I'm just curios since I've seen people recomp when they give up on the last 5 or 10 pounds, and it can take them several years. With 20 pounds, would it be possible if he gave it enough time (and is that likely to be 10 years or something ridiculous)?
That's why I'm going to have another crack at it. Last years bulk/cut took me 9 months and I've no idea how long this one will take but I'm planning to (be patient and) 'recomp' for the same length of time and see how the methods compare.
I'm definitely in no hurry because in the past I've got to goal weight then just let things go. The current plan to just keep working on myself indefinitely seems to be working out better.
Also, I hate cutting... :sad:0 -
I'm thinking that'll be my plan if I ever make it to goal. I doubt I'll ever have the willpower to get lean enough to justify a bulk.Okay, it's possible to do both but very complicated (nutrition/meal timing etc) and not as efficient as bulk/cut cycles.
The fact that you're asking how to do it on a forum suggests you might not be up to the task (that's not a criticism, I know I couldn't do it). It would need tonnes of research, work and dedication and/or cost money for a coach.
If you're going ahead, you'd just set MFP to maintain and crack on with your training and nutrition programme.
It's honestly not that complicated. Get enough protein and get on a good routine. The only real difference between that and a bulk is that you eat at maintenance and not at a surplus.
You do not have to so anything special re meal time etc.
That's good to know Sara, as I'm going to take another crack at it myself next year. I tried it for around 3/4 months a couple of years back and didn't see any progress (hence the bulk/cut/bulk).
Programmes/sites I've looked at in the past looked overly complicated to me (and I put my own lack of discernible progress, at the time, down to not following them) but I could certainly be looking at the wrong ones. I have 4-6 weeks left of my bulk then god knows how long cutting before I decide so plenty of time for more research.
Its not quick...that is one disadvantage.
IMO, it really depends on the preferences. In a way, bulking and cutting is more complicated as you have water/food weight swings that make working out trends hard and then you have the challenges when cutting of being hungry(er), possible gym performance issues, making sure you are on point to minimize and muscle loss, upping protein comparatively. The bulk part is pretty easy though lol. Recomp is relatively easy - eat at maintenance and lift some stuff - although, as I (and you) mentioned, it can be very slow going.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how slow it is? Is it known how much fat loss/muscle gain can take place in a year (a range since there will always be personal variables)?
I'm just curios since I've seen people recomp when they give up on the last 5 or 10 pounds, and it can take them several years. With 20 pounds, would it be possible if he gave it enough time (and is that likely to be 10 years or something ridiculous)?
That's why I'm going to have another crack at it. Last years bulk/cut took me 9 months and I've no idea how long this one will take but I'm planning to (be patient and) 'recomp' for the same length of time and see how the methods compare.
I'm definitely in no hurry because in the past I've got to goal weight then just let things go. The current plan to just keep working on myself indefinitely seems to be working out better.
Also, I hate cutting... :sad:
Welcome to a very big club!
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Okay, it's possible to do both but very complicated (nutrition/meal timing etc) and not as efficient as bulk/cut cycles.
The fact that you're asking how to do it on a forum suggests you might not be up to the task (that's not a criticism, I know I couldn't do it). It would need tonnes of research, work and dedication and/or cost money for a coach.
If you're going ahead, you'd just set MFP to maintain and crack on with your training and nutrition programme.
It's honestly not that complicated. Get enough protein and get on a good routine. The only real difference between that and a bulk is that you eat at maintenance and not at a surplus.
You do not have to so anything special re meal time etc.
That's good to know Sara, as I'm going to take another crack at it myself next year. I tried it for around 3/4 months a couple of years back and didn't see any progress (hence the bulk/cut/bulk).
Programmes/sites I've looked at in the past looked overly complicated to me (and I put my own lack of discernible progress, at the time, down to not following them) but I could certainly be looking at the wrong ones. I have 4-6 weeks left of my bulk then god knows how long cutting before I decide so plenty of time for more research.
Its not quick...that is one disadvantage.
IMO, it really depends on the preferences. In a way, bulking and cutting is more complicated as you have water/food weight swings that make working out trends hard and then you have the challenges when cutting of being hungry(er), possible gym performance issues, making sure you are on point to minimize and muscle loss, upping protein comparatively. The bulk part is pretty easy though lol. Recomp is relatively easy - eat at maintenance and lift some stuff - although, as I (and you) mentioned, it can be very slow going.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how slow it is? Is it known how much fat loss/muscle gain can take place in a year (a range since there will always be personal variables)?
I'm just curios since I've seen people recomp when they give up on the last 5 or 10 pounds, and it can take them several years. With 20 pounds, would it be possible if he gave it enough time (and is that likely to be 10 years or something ridiculous)?
Impossible to put a generic timeframe on it, too many variables - male/female, trained/untrained, good genetics/poor genetics, fat/lean, good training/poor training, young/old etc. etc.
Don't know where people get the idea recomp is complex - eat, train, progress (OK I stole that phrase, sorry Sara and SideSteel). It really isn't anywhere as complex as someone attempting to be big, muscular and still very lean.
Recomp can be made complex (with calorie cycling, meal timing for example) but it's not compulsory.
But trying to recomp 20lbs is very, very, very ambitious. Really should be cutting slowly in my opinion.
^^yep to all this and lol..
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I'm thinking that'll be my plan if I ever make it to goal. I doubt I'll ever have the willpower to get lean enough to justify a bulk.Okay, it's possible to do both but very complicated (nutrition/meal timing etc) and not as efficient as bulk/cut cycles.
The fact that you're asking how to do it on a forum suggests you might not be up to the task (that's not a criticism, I know I couldn't do it). It would need tonnes of research, work and dedication and/or cost money for a coach.
If you're going ahead, you'd just set MFP to maintain and crack on with your training and nutrition programme.
It's honestly not that complicated. Get enough protein and get on a good routine. The only real difference between that and a bulk is that you eat at maintenance and not at a surplus.
You do not have to so anything special re meal time etc.
That's good to know Sara, as I'm going to take another crack at it myself next year. I tried it for around 3/4 months a couple of years back and didn't see any progress (hence the bulk/cut/bulk).
Programmes/sites I've looked at in the past looked overly complicated to me (and I put my own lack of discernible progress, at the time, down to not following them) but I could certainly be looking at the wrong ones. I have 4-6 weeks left of my bulk then god knows how long cutting before I decide so plenty of time for more research.
Its not quick...that is one disadvantage.
IMO, it really depends on the preferences. In a way, bulking and cutting is more complicated as you have water/food weight swings that make working out trends hard and then you have the challenges when cutting of being hungry(er), possible gym performance issues, making sure you are on point to minimize and muscle loss, upping protein comparatively. The bulk part is pretty easy though lol. Recomp is relatively easy - eat at maintenance and lift some stuff - although, as I (and you) mentioned, it can be very slow going.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how slow it is? Is it known how much fat loss/muscle gain can take place in a year (a range since there will always be personal variables)?
I'm just curios since I've seen people recomp when they give up on the last 5 or 10 pounds, and it can take them several years. With 20 pounds, would it be possible if he gave it enough time (and is that likely to be 10 years or something ridiculous)?
That's why I'm going to have another crack at it. Last years bulk/cut took me 9 months and I've no idea how long this one will take but I'm planning to (be patient and) 'recomp' for the same length of time and see how the methods compare.
I'm definitely in no hurry because in the past I've got to goal weight then just let things go. The current plan to just keep working on myself indefinitely seems to be working out better.
Also, I hate cutting... :sad:
Bah! Lean enough?! I'd never have bulked if I'd waited till I was sub 24%
Hence the plan to try maintenance for a yearish - I already know the upcoming cut will (probably) not get me there. If I get good results from 'recomping', great. If not, another bulk/cut
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ok, this discussion sure has gotten alot more attention than I thought it would.
at this point I think I should do a cut then a lean bulk but I'm starting to see results, I'm seeing my abs more, and I'm seeing muscle gains in my arms and chest, I don't want to bulk that hard because the way most people make it sound is like you're eating 3000 calories a day of whatever *kitten* food for 5 to 6 times a day. I know there's a clean way to do it but that's still a lot of food, I don't think I could eat like that, I don't eat processed or fast foods or sugars anyways. this is all sounding like "bro science" so I'm just going to go to a doctor/nutritionist cause I have other questions anyways0 -
JimFsfitnesspal wrote: »
What point are you trying to make. Posting random links with no context is well...random.
he claims to have lost 20 pound of fat and gained 10 pounds of muscle in another thread…
mrm and I argue that his calculations are off..
I guess now he is just going spam any thread about gaining muscle while in a deficit...
who's lost 20 pounds of fat? wasn't me, I haven't posted anything else other than this0 -
Can't go wrong with an RD but should try to find one with a sport nutrition certification if you can.0
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See muscle gains? Can you elaborate on how you see your muscles getting bigger while cutting fat?0
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love2lift247 wrote: »JimFsfitnesspal wrote: »
What point are you trying to make. Posting random links with no context is well...random.
he claims to have lost 20 pound of fat and gained 10 pounds of muscle in another thread…
mrm and I argue that his calculations are off..
I guess now he is just going spam any thread about gaining muscle while in a deficit...
who's lost 20 pounds of fat? wasn't me, I haven't posted anything else other than this
click those quotes again. He was not talking about you.
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I've never worked out for over 3 months before, in fact this is my longest streak of exercising ever. I literally had no muscle in my chest, and now I'm starting to see where it's showing up, I also see and feel my arms getting bigger.0
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my 2 cents, if you are not happy with the LBM you have then bulk first. I spent two months cutting when I probably should have been bulking and getting stronger.0
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