Is it possible to lose fat and gain muscle?
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your flaw is assuming that you eat the fried potato in a vacuum and that is the only thing that a person would consume.
so, if my day consists of eggs, egg whites, bacon, whole wheat bread, turkey, yogurt, and then for dinner I have fish, vegetables, and fry some potato in olive oil, and hten have ice cream for dessert is that then "unhealthy" because I fried some potatoes in olive oil?
please post said studies that you are referring to.
and yes 1000 calories of burger king = 1000 calories of raw meat...(who the hell eats raw meat anyway?)
You misunderstand me or may be my English is not good enough to explain. What I mean is "Ice Cream" or "Burger King" is the only unhealthy food you get, I didn't say adding such meal will ruin your whole day or diet.
Raw meat as of my knowledge is meat without any additions and minimally processed, like roasted steak
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I'm more than happy to have discussions and debate. However it's pretty clear from your posts that you want to deal in hypothetical situations. There are many things that can't be discussed that way and pretty much everything that has discussed so far have clear answers. When people are wrong they need to be told they are wrong and not allowed to spread misinformation as being factual.
Thanks for telling us we are wrong, I will stop spreading misinformation as being factual. Please support the thread with scientific papers your information based on it to allow us have more correct information.
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So a "writer" with no credentials or actual degrees in physiology (that were credited to him anyway) or a peer reviewed clinical study from the NCBI and the Journal of Applied Physiology..............let's see.Lgabrjolek wrote: »Well, congratulations we can agree on something! " Lean is a physical appearance that someone achieves. Bulk is something someone does to add muscle while eating at a caloric surplus. If you have different meanings then feel free to share. "
Now for the Fasting defence.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/fuel-to-burn-only-fat-loss-fools-train-on-empty-stomach.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3253005/
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Um, I've lost about 40lbs lifting weights fasted and then not eating for about 4 hours after finishing my workout. Was I supposed to get fat doing this? HAVE I BEEN DOING IT WRONG THIS WHOLE TIME?!?!?!0
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hanymamdouh wrote: »your flaw is assuming that you eat the fried potato in a vacuum and that is the only thing that a person would consume.
so, if my day consists of eggs, egg whites, bacon, whole wheat bread, turkey, yogurt, and then for dinner I have fish, vegetables, and fry some potato in olive oil, and hten have ice cream for dessert is that then "unhealthy" because I fried some potatoes in olive oil?
please post said studies that you are referring to.
and yes 1000 calories of burger king = 1000 calories of raw meat...(who the hell eats raw meat anyway?)
You misunderstand me or may be my English is not good enough to explain. What I mean is "Ice Cream" or "Burger King" is the only unhealthy food you get, I didn't say adding such meal will ruin your whole day or diet.
Raw meat as of my knowledge is meat without any additions and minimally processed, like roasted steak
context and dosage is what matters.
yes, if you get 75% of your day from burger king and ice cream that is going to put you in the unhealthy range..
however, if you have already hit your macro/micro targets for the day, then eating some ice cream and burger king does not negate your day...
to me raw = uncooked
what you are referring to I guess is meat with no seasoning...?0 -
Um, I've lost about 40lbs lifting weights fasted and then not eating for about 4 hours after finishing my workout. Was I supposed to get fat doing this? HAVE I BEEN DOING IT WRONG THIS WHOLE TIME?!?!?!
LOL
I never eat pre-workout....lunch is about 12:00 and I am in the gym around 4:00 ...0 -
hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
Maybe it would help us to get on the same page if you post the studies to which you're referring and tell us what conclusions you're drawing as a result.
This is for the tomato example
The document:
http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/BJN/BJN99_06/S0007114507868486a.pdf&code=f49013aaa70a5c145367dab8427fc72d
The article
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/raw-veggies-are-healthier/
Hmm that doesn't really clear things up at all. With which part of my posts are you disagreeing and why do you think this article/study refutes them?
eta: I suspect there's something of a language barrier here, so I may not be understanding what you're trying to say based on that.0 -
however, if you have already hit your macro/micro targets for the day, then eating some ice cream and burger king does not negate your day...
to me raw = uncooked
what you are referring to I guess is meat with no seasoning...?
I agree with you. and yes I mean meat with no seasoning with minimal processing
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Agree with some of it. When it comes to fat loss, regardless of training method, calorie deficit is the MOST important factor.Lgabrjolek wrote: »
You should just look beyond bb.com. Lots of the information from the site is broscience. Don't put blinders on. Be OBJECTIVE about information and not subjective. There is so much false information in the fitness industry and lots of sheep that follow it because peers "heard" it from someone else.
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ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
Maybe it would help us to get on the same page if you post the studies to which you're referring and tell us what conclusions you're drawing as a result.
This is for the tomato example
The document:
http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/BJN/BJN99_06/S0007114507868486a.pdf&code=f49013aaa70a5c145367dab8427fc72d
The article
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/raw-veggies-are-healthier/
Hmm that doesn't really clear things up at all. With which part of my posts are you disagreeing and why do you think this article/study refutes them?
eta: I suspect there's something of a language barrier here, so I may not be understanding what you're trying to say based on that.
It is reference to tomato example, I attached the study and the article that mentioned how antioxidants change because of temperature. I thought you were asking reference to that issue only.0 -
Anecdotes don't trump actual science though. That's why in many experiments, placebos are used.hanymamdouh wrote: »Excuse me ladies and gentlemen, I do agree with Lgabrjolek because that's what I did myself, and result is reducing body fat % while gaining muscle mass. I'm not certified trainer or doctor, I'm just an engineer who used to read, read, read, and read then turn on my analysis skills. I just want to consent that what Lgabrjolek is correct and works because it really works with me. MrM27, I don't know why you are so aggressive, two people here claim they did it, so why all those info is wrong? Please review your information MAY BE you are wrong, or some misunderstanding is in the middle.
Thanks!
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Well yes if the macros are the SAME (with the exception of any trans fat). The body doesn't distinguish between meat from a burger or from Safeway butcher. It breaks it down to simplest form (amino acids) and absorbs it.hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
There are no bad foods, just bad diets. If the rest of your diet is balanced and full of nutrient-dense foods there's no reason you can't have so-called junk food in a portion that fits your calories. I usually have a serving of ice cream at night.
Correct me if I'm wrong, for example if one sandwich of Burger King contains 1000 kcal, 30g protein, 50g carbs, 75g fat (just an example) will be same for my body as meal of lean fresh beef steak + raw garden salad + olive oil if it has the same macros?
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Source? Or is this just what you think? Whether raw or processed, the body breaks down ALL food the same. Rendering food or drink down to it's simplest form for absorption is how digestion works.hanymamdouh wrote: »hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
There are no bad foods, just bad diets. If the rest of your diet is balanced and full of nutrient-dense foods there's no reason you can't have so-called junk food in a portion that fits your calories. I usually have a serving of ice cream at night.
Correct me if I'm wrong, for example if one sandwich of Burger King contains 1000 kcal, 30g protein, 50g carbs, 75g fat (just an example) will be same for my body as meal of lean fresh beef steak + raw garden salad + olive oil if it has the same macros?
are we talking same calories and same macros? If yes, then the answer to your question is yes.
I totally don't agree with you, nutrients are not only protein, carb and fat, there are also micronutrients as well as cooking method that has big deal. Also breaking down food during digestion process is very important. How does your body break down burger sandwich is different than raw food. Also don't forget the effect of GI which is result of how food is processed. I've read too much studies and articles and all claim the same fact, junk food is junk food, it is junk because it is full of unhealthy components, and what do they mean by unhealthy is the break down way and the added components beside major macro/micro nutrients. For example frying potato in olive oil will give you same amount of macro/micros but it is different than gaining same nutrients from fresh/unprocessed food.
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Not quite as different as everyone thinks though. Calorie deficit works the same with everyone. So does calorie surplus. Exercise regimens are preferences, but when applications of exercise are done on an individual, the result (which may differ in measurements) are still essentially the same.And in conclusion every body is different so what works for one doesn't for another. Trial and error is what I think.
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hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
Maybe it would help us to get on the same page if you post the studies to which you're referring and tell us what conclusions you're drawing as a result.
This is for the tomato example
The document:
http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/BJN/BJN99_06/S0007114507868486a.pdf&code=f49013aaa70a5c145367dab8427fc72d
The article
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/raw-veggies-are-healthier/
Hmm that doesn't really clear things up at all. With which part of my posts are you disagreeing and why do you think this article/study refutes them?
eta: I suspect there's something of a language barrier here, so I may not be understanding what you're trying to say based on that.
It is reference to tomato example, I attached the study and the article that mentioned how antioxidants change because of temperature. I thought you were asking reference to that issue only.
No we were talking about whether it's possible to build a "sculpted body" while eating sugar and fat. I responded to that with the study about hormonal response to fast food vs. grass fed organic beef, and I'm not sure how we got to tomatoes. It seemed not to have anything to do with the discussion at hand, which is why I was asking for clarification.0 -
I am thinking if its possible by cutting some kcal intake and carbs? Can achieve that? How has an expetience on that?
Thanks
Losing fat and gaining muscle concurrently is normally called recomp these days although when I started training it was just what nearly everyone did (bulk cut cycles were sole preserve of body builders). Whether it's the better choice for you depends on your goals.
Your calories determine weight loss/gain/maintenance.
Cutting carbs is a red herring - you can recomp with high carb, low carb or whatever (personal choice), personally I would be wary of cutting carbs in case it affects your training performance. Adequate protein is far more significant.
Really it's eating at or around maintenance - if your weight loss/gain is very slow I would still call it recomp. There's a guy on the Stronglifts site for example who very clearly gained good amounts muscle in 3 months and lost fat with a tiny surplus (1lb/month weight gain). More than likely he is genetically gifted though!
For me over 6 months lost 7.5lbs of fat, gained 3.5lbs of LBM for net loss of 4lbs of weight. But that is for me (old, training mostly prioritised on my cycling season, 40 training years, a bit restricted in terms of the big compound lifts due to injuries). You are much younger - but no idea of your current training status or bodyfat which both have a big bearing on speed of progress.
Train hard, eat well and enjoy the ride.
Haha, yes, it seems funny that many claim it's impossible now, lol! Good advice, thanks!
For many, YEARS. Just on a regular bulk and cut cycle for me, from 19 to about 23 years old I added on 35lbs of weight with maybe 2/3 of that being muscle at most. And that was at a surplus.Yes, you can. You have to eat at maintenance levels or just slightly under. The process is slow and takes a looong time according to most.
Possible yes. It takes a lot of attention to detail and it does take a longer route to achieve. A great source is Alan Aragon (who's an MFP member) and Lyle McDonald.I am thinking if its possible by cutting some kcal intake and carbs? Can achieve that? How has an expetience on that?
Thanks
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How long?
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That's a long time! But I think I only need ~5-8 lbs to make me happy I don't imagine it will be less than 1-2 years anyway, but I think I could make improvements within a year.CrusaderSam wrote: »Yeah you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time, if you lift hard. Muscles and bones dont grow very fast once your an adult. Force feeding them doesnt make them grow any faster. Its going to be slow no matter what you do, but this should be a lifestyle change so it shouldn't matter if it takes you 3 years or 5 just do what makes you happy.
I cut for a year and recomped for a year, so top and bottom are about 2 years apart. The bottom pic is a year old and I have about 2-4 pounds more muscle now. I never bulked.
To be honest I think most of the guys here have an unhealthy obsession with just how much muscle they can build. In life people just dont care how big your pecs are or what you can deadlift. This is something you should be doing because you enjoy it, having big biceps wont make you happy.
Thanks for your insight, and especially for your perspective
@hanymamdouh - I won't get into the conversation you're involved in, but I do want to say that I very much appreciate your respectful approach to discussion and wish many more people would take your example.0 -
(sigh) This is why we can't have nice things.0
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I am thinking if its possible by cutting some kcal intake and carbs? Can achieve that? How has an expetience on that?
Thanks
Yes it is possible if you are overweight to begin with....
If you have been lifting for a while, and have very little BF....then the process is not as easy....very long and slow process0 -
Lgabrjolek wrote: »Lean muscle is gained with higher protein intake (don't over do it). You want to gain lean muscle weight, so stay away from bad fatty foods and limit your sugar intake. If you do a lot of cardio, you will lose weight more rapidly. Lift full slow reps and sets. Push yourself hard and rejuvenate your muscles with proteins (baked fish, chicken breast baked) after your workout. If you stay away from sweets and junk food, you can guarantee yourself results. You will even gain more energy to perform your workouts. MY BEST ADVICE: NEVER SKIP BREAKFAST! SKIPPING CAN ACTUALLY MAKE YOU GAIN UNWANTED FAT!
All the best!
*Live long and prosper!*
-Liz
what?
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Lgabrjolek wrote: »MY BEST ADVICE: NEVER SKIP BREAKFAST! SKIPPING CAN ACTUALLY MAKE YOU GAIN UNWANTED FAT!
All the best!
*Live long and prosper!*
-Liz
I personally don't eat breakfast.
My last meal is around 8pm, and my first meal of the day is post workout...usually around 1245 - 1pm.
Been doing it for 2 yrs come August 6th.
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Well yes if the macros are the SAME (with the exception of any trans fat). The body doesn't distinguish between meat from a burger or from Safeway butcher. It breaks it down to simplest form (amino acids) and absorbs it.hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
There are no bad foods, just bad diets. If the rest of your diet is balanced and full of nutrient-dense foods there's no reason you can't have so-called junk food in a portion that fits your calories. I usually have a serving of ice cream at night.
Correct me if I'm wrong, for example if one sandwich of Burger King contains 1000 kcal, 30g protein, 50g carbs, 75g fat (just an example) will be same for my body as meal of lean fresh beef steak + raw garden salad + olive oil if it has the same macros?
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Whoppers are pretty high in trans fats, though. This is the main quibble I have with "there are no bad foods", being stated so emphatically by some. I understand about context, but trans fats are bad for you. A person could be meeting their macros with regular Whoppers (and other stuff), but that's not healthy.
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There was a "haha JK" comment after that. It wasn't meant to be serious. It has turned into a very interesting board though.Lgabrjolek wrote: »Just to clarify. Lean muscle is different from 'bulky muscle'
Wut?
If things that you do work for you do those things, it doesn't mean they are right, it doesn't mean they are wrong. I merely gave an opinion. As long as YOU are getting to your personal goals isn't that what matters the most? I strongly believe in clean eating(as I'm sure many others do), and it is something that has worked for me. I am an early riser so skipping breakfast for me throws off my routine; it works for me.
I wish all the best to everyone in gaining their personal achievements. Also a thank you to the legit sources that have been provided!
Good Luck
Liz
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Whoppers are pretty high in trans fats, though. This is the main quibble I have with "there are no bad foods", being stated so emphatically by some. I understand about context, but trans fats are bad for you. A person could be meeting their macros with regular Whoppers (and other stuff), but that's not healthy.
You know honestly every time someone brings up IIFYM or something, they always go to extremes saying "Yeah well you can meet your macros and stuff by eating junk food"....
No one ever (me at least) says to eat only candy and stuff to meet your calorie and macro goals.....
Things should be taken in context of overall diet, not just one tiny aspect of it.
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Lgabrjolek wrote: »I am an early riser so skipping breakfast for me throws off my routine; it works for me.
I wish all the best to everyone in gaining their personal achievements. Also a thank you to the legit sources that have been provided!
Good Luck
Liz
Ok, that is fine that you state that.
But what you said earlier about skipping breakfast and that makes you fat, is just flat out wrong.....so don't state things like that to people on here.
Stating what works for you and how YOU reached YOUR goals is fine....but don't post incorrect information.
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MityMax96 I believe we have figured that out. The word "can" doesn't mean that it WILL happen.0
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Lgabrjolek wrote: »MityMax96 I believe we have figured that out. The word "can" doesn't mean that it WILL happen.
It won't happen at all that's the point. There is no "can" in that equation.
It comes down to over all calories, not when you do or do not eat them.
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Whoppers are pretty high in trans fats, though. This is the main quibble I have with "there are no bad foods", being stated so emphatically by some. I understand about context, but trans fats are bad for you. A person could be meeting their macros with regular Whoppers (and other stuff), but that's not healthy.
You know honestly every time someone brings up IIFYM or something, they always go to extremes saying "Yeah well you can meet your macros and stuff by eating junk food"....
No one ever (me at least) says to eat only candy and stuff to meet your calorie and macro goals.....
Things should be taken in context of overall diet, not just one tiny aspect of it.
I'm not saying that, I get it and overall agree with you. I was only picking up on whether that burger and the other food with identical macros would be the same for your body. They wouldn't if the burger had trans fats.
I'm only saying that there are some things that are pretty bad for you (trans fats mainly), and should be largely avoided. That could be missed by someone reading "there are no bad foods!"
Luckily most fast foods are doing away from trans fats.
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