Alternative to weight training for muscle maintenance?
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Chrysalid2014
Posts: 1,038 Member
Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose). I simply cannot stand weight training but I do a body-conditioning-type program that includes exercises such as: planks, pressups, lunges, crow pose, raised leg crunches, L-sit lifts, standing leg lifts, seated straddle lifts, and handstands (all alternated with stretching). My question is, will these type of exercises perform the same function as weight training? I have to say, I have done weight training in the past and these new exercises seem A LOT more difficult – I'm literally shaking after trying to hold some of them for the required time (or actually even get into the position on some of them). Then again I'm a lot older now!
Any insight/knowledge on this would be appreciated.
Any insight/knowledge on this would be appreciated.
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Replies
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I'm no expert on those various exercises you've listed, but you can accomplish resistance training without using weights (it is sometimes just tougher to measure progress). Popular programs praised here on MFP include Convict Conditioning, You Are Your Own Gym, and a few others.
Here's a blog by an MFP poster who had great success with bodyweight exercises when she found that lifting weights just wasn't for her: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/fourfiftythree/view/calisthenics-roadmap-a-list-of-resources-to-get-started-with-bodyweight-strength-training-6943380 -
Weight training isn't the only thing ever suggested. It's resistance training that's needed. Progressive resistance training. So if you can make it more challenging, you don't need a barbell0
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Thanks for the replies! That blog post is fantastic and the resources the writer has listed will keep me going for a good while. The word I was looking for is 'calisthenics' and it sounds like exactly what I want to achieve. Cheers!0
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per kg protein (minus fat). Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself (my diary is open if you want to see an example of this).
Also, lower the weights if you have trouble getting into a position needed for lifts. The shaking could also be an indication of too much weight. It is also a sign that the smaller muscle groups are too weak. Dont just focus on biceps, triceps, and thighs. you should focus on your back muscles, shoulder, etc as well.
eg, try 8lbs instead of 20lbs for lateral raises (common mistake I see and read about others doing). lateral rises will help condition smaller muscle groups that support larger muscles when doing exercises such as a military press.
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also try nerdfitness.com and look for bodyweight exercises
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per lb protein. Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself.
That's not realistic at all, and not even necessary. You are advocating that a 250 pound person eats 500 grams of protein. That's 2000 calories of protein alone! Not to mention it often comes packed with fat and carbs, so no way one would lose weight on that. 1.5 gram per kg is often suggested, but could also go for 1 gram per pound of body mass.0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per lb protein. Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself (my diary is open if you want to see an example of this).
Also, lower the weights if you have trouble getting into a position needed for lifts. The shaking could also be an indication of too much weight. It is also a sign that the smaller muscle groups are too weak. Dont just focus on biceps, triceps, and thighs. you should focus on your back muscles, shoulder, etc as well.
eg, try 8lbs instead of 20lbs for lateral raises (common mistake I see and read about others doing). lateral rises will help condition smaller muscle groups that support larger muscles when doing exercises such as a military press.
That is terrible advice
0.8-1g protein per lb of LBM0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per lb protein. Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself.
That's not realistic at all, and not even necessary. You are advocating that a 250 pound person eats 500 grams of protein. That's 2000 calories of protein alone! Not to mention it often comes packed with fat and carbs, so no way one would lose weight on that. 1.5 gram per kg is often suggested, but could also go for 1 gram per pound of body mass.
I agree that's completely unnecessary. It's true that research supports eating more than the RDA while working out and in a deficit:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/823505
But most people recommend 1 gram per pound of LBM. Personally I'd hate trying to eat that much protein. I'm lucky to hit the 1 g/lb recommendation as is.0 -
Oh, sorry OP I forgot to answer your question. There are lots of ways to preserve muscle but you need progressive overload. In other words, if you're doing body weight you have to keep making the exercises more difficult as you go. That's why a program can be more helpful than just making it up as you go.0
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amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per lb protein. Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself.
That's not realistic at all, and not even necessary. You are advocating that a 250 pound person eats 500 grams of protein. That's 2000 calories of protein alone! Not to mention it often comes packed with fat and carbs, so no way one would lose weight on that. 1.5 gram per kg is often suggested, but could also go for 1 gram per pound of body mass.
500g chicken breast is only 800 calories....![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per lb protein. Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself (my diary is open if you want to see an example of this).
Also, lower the weights if you have trouble getting into a position needed for lifts. The shaking could also be an indication of too much weight. It is also a sign that the smaller muscle groups are too weak. Dont just focus on biceps, triceps, and thighs. you should focus on your back muscles, shoulder, etc as well.
eg, try 8lbs instead of 20lbs for lateral raises (common mistake I see and read about others doing). lateral rises will help condition smaller muscle groups that support larger muscles when doing exercises such as a military press.
That is terrible advice
0.8-1g protein per lb of LBM
I meant kg not lbs.
btw, 2g is fine.
Protein intake of 1.3 – 2.0 grams per kilogram of body weight is adequate for stimulating maximal protein synthesis.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per lb protein. Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself.
That's not realistic at all, and not even necessary. You are advocating that a 250 pound person eats 500 grams of protein. That's 2000 calories of protein alone! Not to mention it often comes packed with fat and carbs, so no way one would lose weight on that. 1.5 gram per kg is often suggested, but could also go for 1 gram per pound of body mass.
500g chicken breast is only 800 calories....
500g of chicken breast has 115 grams of protein. You would need to eat 2.2 kg of chicken breast to get 500 grams of protein. That comes at 2400 calories by the way.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per lb protein. Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself.
That's not realistic at all, and not even necessary. You are advocating that a 250 pound person eats 500 grams of protein. That's 2000 calories of protein alone! Not to mention it often comes packed with fat and carbs, so no way one would lose weight on that. 1.5 gram per kg is often suggested, but could also go for 1 gram per pound of body mass.
500g chicken breast is only 800 calories....
500g of chicken breast has 115 grams of protein. You would need to eat 2.2 kg of chicken breast to get 500 grams of protein. That comes at 2400 calories by the way.
Where the hell did you get "500 grams of protein" from!? btw, 500g chicken has 150g protein.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per lb protein. Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself.
That's not realistic at all, and not even necessary. You are advocating that a 250 pound person eats 500 grams of protein. That's 2000 calories of protein alone! Not to mention it often comes packed with fat and carbs, so no way one would lose weight on that. 1.5 gram per kg is often suggested, but could also go for 1 gram per pound of body mass.
500g chicken breast is only 800 calories....Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per lb protein. Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself (my diary is open if you want to see an example of this).
Also, lower the weights if you have trouble getting into a position needed for lifts. The shaking could also be an indication of too much weight. It is also a sign that the smaller muscle groups are too weak. Dont just focus on biceps, triceps, and thighs. you should focus on your back muscles, shoulder, etc as well.
eg, try 8lbs instead of 20lbs for lateral raises (common mistake I see and read about others doing). lateral rises will help condition smaller muscle groups that support larger muscles when doing exercises such as a military press.
That is terrible advice
0.8-1g protein per lb of LBM
I meant kg not lbs.
btw, 2g is fine.
Protein intake of 1.3 – 2.0 grams per kilogram of body weight is adequate for stimulating maximal protein synthesis.
Chicken breast isn't pure protein though. There's fat and water there too.
Each gram of protein has 4 calories
Each gram of carbs has 4 calories
Each gram of fat has 9 calories
So if you had 500 grams of protein it would be 2000 calories.-1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per lb protein. Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself.
That's not realistic at all, and not even necessary. You are advocating that a 250 pound person eats 500 grams of protein. That's 2000 calories of protein alone! Not to mention it often comes packed with fat and carbs, so no way one would lose weight on that. 1.5 gram per kg is often suggested, but could also go for 1 gram per pound of body mass.
500g chicken breast is only 800 calories....
500g of chicken breast has 115 grams of protein. You would need to eat 2.2 kg of chicken breast to get 500 grams of protein. That comes at 2400 calories by the way.
Where the hell did you get "500 grams of protein" from!? btw, 500g chicken has 150g protein.
I was going with the raw chicken. Doesn't matter though. I read your post before you corrected it to 2g per kg, which sounds a bit more reasonable (though still a bit too high for an obese person). I got 500g of protein from your original post, and a hypothetical 250 lb person. Well, glad the misunderstanding has been cleared up.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per lb protein. Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself.
That's not realistic at all, and not even necessary. You are advocating that a 250 pound person eats 500 grams of protein. That's 2000 calories of protein alone! Not to mention it often comes packed with fat and carbs, so no way one would lose weight on that. 1.5 gram per kg is often suggested, but could also go for 1 gram per pound of body mass.
500g chicken breast is only 800 calories....
500g of chicken breast has 115 grams of protein. You would need to eat 2.2 kg of chicken breast to get 500 grams of protein. That comes at 2400 calories by the way.
Where the hell did you get "500 grams of protein" from!? btw, 500g chicken has 150g protein.
I was going with the raw chicken. Doesn't matter though. I read your post before you corrected it to 2g per kg, which sounds a bit more reasonable. I got 500g of protein from your original post, and a hypothetical 250 lb person. Well, glad the misunderstanding has been cleared up.
ya, my bad. its 3am where i am.
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Looks like I need to double up on my current amount of protein, then. I thought I was doing well by eating the MyFitnessPal recommended amount (I'm normally a carbs person) but even using the most modest calculation suggested in these comments (1g per lb) would double that amount.
I think I'm going to purchase the Convict Conditioning book and I'll check out that nerdfitness.com site as well. I do try to make the exercises I currently do more difficult by holding the positions for longer. Basically I'm trying to feel like I exert the same amount of effort each time, so as I get fitter I will be doing more and more actual work.
Thanks to all for the replies – you've been very helpful!
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Looks like I need to double up on my current amount of protein, then. I thought I was doing well by eating the MyFitnessPal recommended amount (I'm normally a carbs person) but even using the most modest calculation suggested in these comments (1g per lb) would double that amount.
I think I'm going to purchase the Convict Conditioning book and I'll check out that nerdfitness.com site as well. I do try to make the exercises I currently do more difficult by holding the positions for longer. Basically I'm trying to feel like I exert the same amount of effort each time, so as I get fitter I will be doing more and more actual work.
Thanks to all for the replies – you've been very helpful!
MFP by default gives to you double or even triple the recommended protein, at least based on what most medical organisations recommend to eat. So, unless you are in need of a high protein diet for whatever reason, then the MFP numbers are already too high, not too low. The 1 gram per lb as minimum intake is an old myth, the recommended protein for the average person is half that if not less. This is recognised as a myth even by bodybuilders. Check here for example: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/maki1.htm
It is an upper limit that might be of help when bulking (eating at a surplus and following an appropriate strength trainign program) but it is by no means a minimum recommended number.0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Looks like I need to double up on my current amount of protein, then. I thought I was doing well by eating the MyFitnessPal recommended amount (I'm normally a carbs person) but even using the most modest calculation suggested in these comments (1g per lb) would double that amount.
I think I'm going to purchase the Convict Conditioning book and I'll check out that nerdfitness.com site as well. I do try to make the exercises I currently do more difficult by holding the positions for longer. Basically I'm trying to feel like I exert the same amount of effort each time, so as I get fitter I will be doing more and more actual work.
Thanks to all for the replies – you've been very helpful!
It's 1 g per lean body mass, which means if you have 130 lb of lean body mass (your weight minus the amount of fat you carry), you would be eating 130 grams of protein. I wouldn't obsess about the numbers if you don't know your body fat. Just eat 1.5-2 grams per kg of your goal weight and you should be fine.0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Looks like I need to double up on my current amount of protein, then. I thought I was doing well by eating the MyFitnessPal recommended amount (I'm normally a carbs person) but even using the most modest calculation suggested in these comments (1g per lb) would double that amount.
I think I'm going to purchase the Convict Conditioning book and I'll check out that nerdfitness.com site as well. I do try to make the exercises I currently do more difficult by holding the positions for longer. Basically I'm trying to feel like I exert the same amount of effort each time, so as I get fitter I will be doing more and more actual work.
Thanks to all for the replies – you've been very helpful!
[. . . snip . . .]
It is an upper limit that might be of help when bulking (eating at a surplus and following an appropriate strength trainign program) but it is by no means a minimum recommended number.
Adequate protein is actually more important when maintaining a calorie deficit. It aids in retention of lean mass when your body is looking for energy sources to make up the deficit. An "adequate" amount will vary with the size of one's deficit, current leanness, age, activity profile, body composition goals, etc., but 0.8g - 1g per lb of lbm is an entirely reasonable target for many folks here on MFP who are doing some resistance training, trying to lose fat, and trying to retain lean mass. There is some additional research that suggests for relatively lean, resistance-trained individuals with a non-trivial deficit, that 1.1g - 1.4g per lb of lbm is better suited to retaining lean mass.
OP - if you're getting something like 0.5g of your body weight at present weight, you're probably in the ballpark and you can focus your attention on more pressing matters (I am making an assumption here about your body weight based on the amount of weight your profile says you want to lose).
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