Sugars
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Let me first reiterate what I said - that long term AND excess refined sugar intake can cause medical issues (NOT that any refined sugar intake at all is a problem). The link you provided proves that point. From that very link:stevencloser wrote: »
And excess and long-term refined sugar intake.ihatetodietalways wrote: »Diabetes Epidemic & You, by Dr. J.R. Kraft. He is a renowned doctor in Chicago and he publishes the fact that fasting glucose can miss 20% of diabetics. Yes. He has looked at 15,000 people from age 3-90. There is a lot of information in this book.
And there are TONS of papers about low carb diets. Phinney, Volek, Pulmetter, Noakes, Attia, and others are leading the research.
Stop telling people to eat sugars and instead tell them, go check your fasting insulin with a simple blood test at the doctor. Furthermore, since insulin resistance is a true phenomenon (it is observed before pre-diabetes), we may want to give our pancreas a break and take the carbs slowly. I don't vilify sugar and carbs. There are people who chose to limit them. That is all.
You are equating people with a medical reason for reducing carbs with people who have normal pancreatic function (the majority of the population). They are not the same. Too many carbs does not cause insulin resistance, diabetes, etc. The inability to properly regulate blood glucose is the main SYMPTOM of those medical issues. The causes are many and include:- genetics
- excess weight
- age
- long term use of certain medications, including statins and antidepressants
Nope.
http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/myths/
Note, that says sugar-sweetened beverages should be avoided to PREVENT diabetes, not simply to manage one's existing diabetes.The American Diabetes Association recommends that people should avoid intake of sugar-sweetened beverages to help prevent diabetes. Sugar-sweetened beverages include beverages like:
regular soda
fruit punch
fruit drinks
energy drinks
sports drinks
sweet tea
other sugary drinks
In fact, the ADA source you linked supports the idea that long term and (not or) excess refined sugar intake can cause diabetes. It supports the intake of sugars and desserts in moderated amounts as part of a balanced diet and specifically tells people to avoid drinks with high added sugar contents.
I think it's adorable that you conveniently cut out the first part of this section from that link. The part that says:
Myth: Eating too much sugar causes diabetes.
Fact: The answer is not so simple. Type 1 diabetes is caused by genetics and unknown factors that trigger the onset of the disease; type 2 diabetes is caused by genetics and lifestyle factors.
Being overweight does increase your risk for developing type 2 diabetes, and a diet high in calories from any source contributes to weight gain. Research has shown that drinking sugary drinks is linked to type 2 diabetes.
The American Diabetes Association recommends that people should avoid intake of sugar-sweetened beverages to help prevent diabetes.
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a wild Sugar Thread appears!0
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ihatetodietalways wrote: »
I never said anything against "some" added sugars. We're - I am at least - talking about long term, sustained excess.lemurcat12 wrote: »The point here is excess of sugar consumption isn't simply because because of the excess sugar itself, but also because it can cause one to consume excess of other foods, thus increasing overall calorie intake. Eating too many apples or too many oranges don't generally cause people to want to chow down on a pizza as well.
Neither does eating some ice cream, IME, or putting some (gasp!) added sugar in a rhubarb sauce or eating some flavored yogurt.
And the WHO does not claim otherwise.
does eating a chocolate bar every night count as long term sustained excess?
Depends on the size of your chocolate bar, but if it's the usual size serving as part of a balanced diet, not only is it not excess, chocolate can in fact be beneficial to your health.
Not the crap you see at the checkout line in the supermarket. That stuff is not beneficial.
Like snickers????0 -
ihatetodietalways wrote: »
I never said anything against "some" added sugars. We're - I am at least - talking about long term, sustained excess.lemurcat12 wrote: »The point here is excess of sugar consumption isn't simply because because of the excess sugar itself, but also because it can cause one to consume excess of other foods, thus increasing overall calorie intake. Eating too many apples or too many oranges don't generally cause people to want to chow down on a pizza as well.
Neither does eating some ice cream, IME, or putting some (gasp!) added sugar in a rhubarb sauce or eating some flavored yogurt.
And the WHO does not claim otherwise.
does eating a chocolate bar every night count as long term sustained excess?
Depends on the size of your chocolate bar, but if it's the usual size serving as part of a balanced diet, not only is it not excess, chocolate can in fact be beneficial to your health.
Not the crap you see at the checkout line in the supermarket. That stuff is not beneficial.
It makes me happy and tastes good, how is that not beneficial?? And no, it doesn't make me want pizza0 -
stephanieluvspb wrote: »ihatetodietalways wrote: »
I never said anything against "some" added sugars. We're - I am at least - talking about long term, sustained excess.lemurcat12 wrote: »The point here is excess of sugar consumption isn't simply because because of the excess sugar itself, but also because it can cause one to consume excess of other foods, thus increasing overall calorie intake. Eating too many apples or too many oranges don't generally cause people to want to chow down on a pizza as well.
Neither does eating some ice cream, IME, or putting some (gasp!) added sugar in a rhubarb sauce or eating some flavored yogurt.
And the WHO does not claim otherwise.
does eating a chocolate bar every night count as long term sustained excess?
Depends on the size of your chocolate bar, but if it's the usual size serving as part of a balanced diet, not only is it not excess, chocolate can in fact be beneficial to your health.
Not the crap you see at the checkout line in the supermarket. That stuff is not beneficial.
It makes me happy and tastes good, how is that not beneficial?? And no, it doesn't make me want pizza
Because the grocery aisle is processed row which = hell0 -
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stephanieluvspb wrote: »ihatetodietalways wrote: »
I never said anything against "some" added sugars. We're - I am at least - talking about long term, sustained excess.lemurcat12 wrote: »The point here is excess of sugar consumption isn't simply because because of the excess sugar itself, but also because it can cause one to consume excess of other foods, thus increasing overall calorie intake. Eating too many apples or too many oranges don't generally cause people to want to chow down on a pizza as well.
Neither does eating some ice cream, IME, or putting some (gasp!) added sugar in a rhubarb sauce or eating some flavored yogurt.
And the WHO does not claim otherwise.
does eating a chocolate bar every night count as long term sustained excess?
Depends on the size of your chocolate bar, but if it's the usual size serving as part of a balanced diet, not only is it not excess, chocolate can in fact be beneficial to your health.
Not the crap you see at the checkout line in the supermarket. That stuff is not beneficial.
It makes me happy and tastes good, how is that not beneficial?? And no, it doesn't make me want pizza
Because the grocery aisle is processed row which = hell
Damn you kroger and all your evil sugar!0 -
stephanieluvspb wrote: »stephanieluvspb wrote: »ihatetodietalways wrote: »
I never said anything against "some" added sugars. We're - I am at least - talking about long term, sustained excess.lemurcat12 wrote: »The point here is excess of sugar consumption isn't simply because because of the excess sugar itself, but also because it can cause one to consume excess of other foods, thus increasing overall calorie intake. Eating too many apples or too many oranges don't generally cause people to want to chow down on a pizza as well.
Neither does eating some ice cream, IME, or putting some (gasp!) added sugar in a rhubarb sauce or eating some flavored yogurt.
And the WHO does not claim otherwise.
does eating a chocolate bar every night count as long term sustained excess?
Depends on the size of your chocolate bar, but if it's the usual size serving as part of a balanced diet, not only is it not excess, chocolate can in fact be beneficial to your health.
Not the crap you see at the checkout line in the supermarket. That stuff is not beneficial.
It makes me happy and tastes good, how is that not beneficial?? And no, it doesn't make me want pizza
Because the grocery aisle is processed row which = hell
Damn you kroger and all your evil sugar!
Or as I like to call Kroger "the crack house"0 -
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stephanieluvspb wrote: »stephanieluvspb wrote: »ihatetodietalways wrote: »
I never said anything against "some" added sugars. We're - I am at least - talking about long term, sustained excess.lemurcat12 wrote: »The point here is excess of sugar consumption isn't simply because because of the excess sugar itself, but also because it can cause one to consume excess of other foods, thus increasing overall calorie intake. Eating too many apples or too many oranges don't generally cause people to want to chow down on a pizza as well.
Neither does eating some ice cream, IME, or putting some (gasp!) added sugar in a rhubarb sauce or eating some flavored yogurt.
And the WHO does not claim otherwise.
does eating a chocolate bar every night count as long term sustained excess?
Depends on the size of your chocolate bar, but if it's the usual size serving as part of a balanced diet, not only is it not excess, chocolate can in fact be beneficial to your health.
Not the crap you see at the checkout line in the supermarket. That stuff is not beneficial.
It makes me happy and tastes good, how is that not beneficial?? And no, it doesn't make me want pizza
Because the grocery aisle is processed row which = hell
Damn you kroger and all your evil sugar!
Or as I like to call Kroger "the crack house"
Yeah cause we all know sugar is addicting
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Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »
For the record, no I don't think there's anything to worry about in OP's diet which goes over sugars due to fruits.mantium999 wrote: »
A fact I acknowledged at the very outset - by saying that high amounts of added sugar was a risk factor rather than a cause of disease. But in case I didn't make it clearer, yes, I agree that they are not saying to avoid sugary drinks ONLY because of sugar.
Well, they raise blood sugar because they have added sugar... I mean you can't get sugar from no sugar, right? And consistently (and artificially) elevated blood sugar levels are a risk factor for diabetes for those who currently do not have the disease.
Let me first reiterate what I said - that long term AND excess refined sugar intake can cause medical issues (NOT that any refined sugar intake at all is a problem). The link you provided proves that point. The From that very link:stevencloser wrote: »
And excess and long-term refined sugar intake.ihatetodietalways wrote: »Diabetes Epidemic & You, by Dr. J.R. Kraft. He is a renowned doctor in Chicago and he publishes the fact that fasting glucose can miss 20% of diabetics. Yes. He has looked at 15,000 people from age 3-90. There is a lot of information in this book.
And there are TONS of papers about low carb diets. Phinney, Volek, Pulmetter, Noakes, Attia, and others are leading the research.
Stop telling people to eat sugars and instead tell them, go check your fasting insulin with a simple blood test at the doctor. Furthermore, since insulin resistance is a true phenomenon (it is observed before pre-diabetes), we may want to give our pancreas a break and take the carbs slowly. I don't vilify sugar and carbs. There are people who chose to limit them. That is all.
You are equating people with a medical reason for reducing carbs with people who have normal pancreatic function (the majority of the population). They are not the same. Too many carbs does not cause insulin resistance, diabetes, etc. The inability to properly regulate blood glucose is the main SYMPTOM of those medical issues. The causes are many and include:- genetics
- excess weight
- age
- long term use of certain medications, including statins and antidepressants
Nope.
http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/myths/
Note, that says sugar-sweetened beverages should be avoided to PREVENT diabetes, not simply to manage one's existing diabetes.The American Diabetes Association recommends that people should avoid intake of sugar-sweetened beverages to help prevent diabetes. Sugar-sweetened beverages include beverages like:
regular soda
fruit punch
fruit drinks
energy drinks
sports drinks
sweet tea
other sugary drinks
In fact, the ADA source you linked supports the idea that long term and (not or) excess refined sugar intake can cause diabetes. It supports the intake of sugars and desserts in moderated amounts as part of a balanced diet and specifically tells people to avoid drinks with high added sugar contents.
you left off this little caveat at the end of the list:
These will raise blood glucose and can provide several hundred calories in just one serving!
so they are recommended to be avoided to keep blood sugar down and avoid a mass dose of calories in one serving, not just because they have sugar.
I have no quarrel with CICO - in fact, I believe in it. The point I was making is simply that added sugars in excess amounts ARE a risk factor in diabetes and other metabolic troubles, not that it is the only factor, nor that no added sugar should be consumed whatsoever if one hopes to avoid these diseases, nor any insane thing of that sort. That consumption of added sugars in high amounts long term is a factor is supported by the American Diabetes Association.
OK but my point is they are not saying avoid it JUST because of sugar….
Would the OP's sugar intake, based on her post, be seen as excessive, and thereby be putting her at risk for disease? It seems the tangents of sugars increasing risks of disease that the OP never mentioned, caused her to abandon this thread. I wonder if she ever found a useful answer to her particular question?
Then why on God's green earth are you here preaching about the evils of excess sugar intake? No one here is advocating for excess sugar intake, or excess food intake, period. If one is otherwise meeting their other macronutrient needs, is eating at maintenance or below by monitoring their overall caloric intake, then they're not intaking excess anything, right? Is anyone here saying "OMG I totes only eat doughnuts and Twinkies all day and everyone on this board should do the exact thing because it's perfectly healthy!"
No? No one is saying that. The anti-sugar brigade on a calorie-counting website is useless (aside from going around humble bragging about their nutritional superiority). We are all keeping sugar intake low because we are counting calories. Prolonged and excess calorie intake, no matter the source, will eventually lead to obesity, which can in turn lead to heart disease, diabetes, etc.
Christ.
You can take the name of any Gods or Deities you like, but your very reaction about "anti-sugar" brigade shows the problem I am trying to address. There are a lot of people here - yourself included, it would seem - who are perfectly reasonable in their own approach to diet and nutrition but have a fit when anyone dares suggest that excess sugar intake can have adverse health effects (more so than excess fiber intake, for example).
I began my participation in this thread in order, specifically, to respond to a blanket claim that sugar is not bad (as opposed to a more precise and correct claim that it isn't bad in all quantities).
You are frustrated that I am "preaching" about the evils of excess sugar intake, yet you have no trouble painting with a broad brush anyone who has a legitimate concern about the effects of added sugars and calling them all part of some "anti-sugar brigade." Your automatic assumption that anyone who raises concerns about sugars at all must be a militant anti-sugar warrior is the problem here, more than my stating facts about sugar that you don't really seem to disagree with.
As for concerns about sugar being raised on a calorie-counting site, one reason to do so is that excess sugar intake makes maintaining one's calorie goal difficult, not simply because sugary foods themselves contain calories but also because of cravings it tends to create.0 -
For the gazillionth time, I said multiple times that sugar is a risk factor, not the sole cause, of metabolic disease. So yeah, thanks for the patronizing and "adorable" lecture.
Let me first reiterate what I said - that long term AND excess refined sugar intake can cause medical issues (NOT that any refined sugar intake at all is a problem). The link you provided proves that point. From that very link:stevencloser wrote: »
And excess and long-term refined sugar intake.ihatetodietalways wrote: »Diabetes Epidemic & You, by Dr. J.R. Kraft. He is a renowned doctor in Chicago and he publishes the fact that fasting glucose can miss 20% of diabetics. Yes. He has looked at 15,000 people from age 3-90. There is a lot of information in this book.
And there are TONS of papers about low carb diets. Phinney, Volek, Pulmetter, Noakes, Attia, and others are leading the research.
Stop telling people to eat sugars and instead tell them, go check your fasting insulin with a simple blood test at the doctor. Furthermore, since insulin resistance is a true phenomenon (it is observed before pre-diabetes), we may want to give our pancreas a break and take the carbs slowly. I don't vilify sugar and carbs. There are people who chose to limit them. That is all.
You are equating people with a medical reason for reducing carbs with people who have normal pancreatic function (the majority of the population). They are not the same. Too many carbs does not cause insulin resistance, diabetes, etc. The inability to properly regulate blood glucose is the main SYMPTOM of those medical issues. The causes are many and include:- genetics
- excess weight
- age
- long term use of certain medications, including statins and antidepressants
Nope.
http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/myths/
Note, that says sugar-sweetened beverages should be avoided to PREVENT diabetes, not simply to manage one's existing diabetes.The American Diabetes Association recommends that people should avoid intake of sugar-sweetened beverages to help prevent diabetes. Sugar-sweetened beverages include beverages like:
regular soda
fruit punch
fruit drinks
energy drinks
sports drinks
sweet tea
other sugary drinks
In fact, the ADA source you linked supports the idea that long term and (not or) excess refined sugar intake can cause diabetes. It supports the intake of sugars and desserts in moderated amounts as part of a balanced diet and specifically tells people to avoid drinks with high added sugar contents.
I think it's adorable that you conveniently cut out the first part of this section from that link. The part that says:
Myth: Eating too much sugar causes diabetes.
Fact: The answer is not so simple. Type 1 diabetes is caused by genetics and unknown factors that trigger the onset of the disease; type 2 diabetes is caused by genetics and lifestyle factors.
Being overweight does increase your risk for developing type 2 diabetes, and a diet high in calories from any source contributes to weight gain. Research has shown that drinking sugary drinks is linked to type 2 diabetes.
The American Diabetes Association recommends that people should avoid intake of sugar-sweetened beverages to help prevent diabetes.
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stevencloser wrote: »
Let me first reiterate what I said - that long term AND excess refined sugar intake can cause medical issues (NOT that any refined sugar intake at all is a problem). The link you provided proves that point. From that very link:stevencloser wrote: »
And excess and long-term refined sugar intake.ihatetodietalways wrote: »Diabetes Epidemic & You, by Dr. J.R. Kraft. He is a renowned doctor in Chicago and he publishes the fact that fasting glucose can miss 20% of diabetics. Yes. He has looked at 15,000 people from age 3-90. There is a lot of information in this book.
And there are TONS of papers about low carb diets. Phinney, Volek, Pulmetter, Noakes, Attia, and others are leading the research.
Stop telling people to eat sugars and instead tell them, go check your fasting insulin with a simple blood test at the doctor. Furthermore, since insulin resistance is a true phenomenon (it is observed before pre-diabetes), we may want to give our pancreas a break and take the carbs slowly. I don't vilify sugar and carbs. There are people who chose to limit them. That is all.
You are equating people with a medical reason for reducing carbs with people who have normal pancreatic function (the majority of the population). They are not the same. Too many carbs does not cause insulin resistance, diabetes, etc. The inability to properly regulate blood glucose is the main SYMPTOM of those medical issues. The causes are many and include:- genetics
- excess weight
- age
- long term use of certain medications, including statins and antidepressants
Nope.
http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/myths/
Note, that says sugar-sweetened beverages should be avoided to PREVENT diabetes, not simply to manage one's existing diabetes.The American Diabetes Association recommends that people should avoid intake of sugar-sweetened beverages to help prevent diabetes. Sugar-sweetened beverages include beverages like:
regular soda
fruit punch
fruit drinks
energy drinks
sports drinks
sweet tea
other sugary drinks
In fact, the ADA source you linked supports the idea that long term and (not or) excess refined sugar intake can cause diabetes. It supports the intake of sugars and desserts in moderated amounts as part of a balanced diet and specifically tells people to avoid drinks with high added sugar contents.
Have you read it? It specifically lists that sugar doesn't cause diabetes, just that consumption of sugar sweetened beverages in particular (no other food things, just drinks with sugar in it) is correlated with diabetes. A phrase whose underlying truth that can range from something like the connection betweeen the amount of people swimming and ice cream sales being correlated to possible causation.
Yes, I read it. But apparently, you haven't read what I repeatedly wrote here. That added sugars in high amounts and over long term is not a cause of diabetes but a risk factor. The relevant post I replied to here was listing risk factors for metabolic disease, not causes, and I added sustained high amount of added sugar intake as one such factor.0 -
Sugar is sugar....fearnsey71 wrote: »You only need to worry about the processed sugars. Sugar from fruit & veg eaten in it's raw state is generally ok because it still contains fibre, which will take the body longer to convert into energy. It's when you blend the fruit (either into smoothies or into juice) that the sugar becomes an issue. The fibre is pretty much removed and the body processes the sugars much more quickly. Well this is what i was told when I went through my diabetes clinics (I'm type 2). I lost my first 14lb just cutting out as much process sugar as possible. When that left me plateauing I then started CICO and exercise and I've lost another 17lb and thats since the 10th of March this year.
Personally I take into much sugar and I can see it on my body it's not carbs or anything like that due to the fact that im very carb conscious. My lower stomach fat comes from high sugars and I have asked plenty of trainers and watch plenty of documents about it from multiple trains and they all tell me the same it's the sugars. My opinion like said I can see it affecting my body. Keep in mind I do hit a calorie deflect 90% of the time. I just think you hit a certain point and you do have to watch it imo
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I go over the majority of the time but don't really pay much attention to it, as long as I'm loosing weight and eating relatively well I don't care.0
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http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/3/651.short
from the abstract:
Numerous clinical studies have shown that sugar-containing liquids, when consumed in place of usual meals, can lead to a significant and sustained weight loss
so yea you can eat sugar and lose weight.
" Supported by the American Beverage Association, Danone Vitapole, and grant no. 1P20RR020774-01 from the National Institutes of Health for the Exploratory Center for Obesity Research. "
the poster asked for a study showing you can lose weight while eating sugar….even though he refused to post anything close to a study about his claims.
Indeed, be nice to find one without "Conflict of interest" splashed across it though. The meta-studies about sugar seem to come to different conclusions based on their backing, there's even a study of studies showing this.
Obviously one can lose weight with sugar in the diet, done this myself and if you look at the ingredients of many prescription VLC Diets they have a lot of sugar in them.
https://www.optifast.com/Pages/ca/ingredients.aspx
"Ingredients (Chocolate): Milk protein isolate, fructose, maltodextrin (corn), canola oil, cocoa, soybean oil, potassium citrate, sodium citrate, sodium chloride...."0
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