Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat
Replies
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If you are worried about your test level, I could start an argument with you each day and lose. Confrontation, and especially coming out dominant in confrontation, raises test levels.
It doesn't stay at that amount, and again, 60% isn't going to make a difference.
The difference in testosterone that occurs with aging isn't normally enough to affect muscle building.HollieWould1 wrote: »
Age has less of an impact with females. Men can gain muscle quicker than women mainly due to testosterone - it decreases in men as they age - we do not have that impact so in theory, the playing field so to speak is leveled out more.
Biggest impact is the additional recovery time we need as we get older - so you often get less work in.
Anything that causes us to be able to put on muscle slower (gender, training age, injury etc) would make recomping or a very slow bulk more desirable (subject to preference and other individual factors) to a quicker bulk and the fat to muscle ratio will be worse. It does not mean you cannot recomp or bulk successfully - its just something to consider when you decide how you want to go about it.
Not arguing - legit question here, but test decreases when you age. Test impacts muscle growth. So why would it not enough to affect it. Not saying its a big impact, but it must impact it. Unless I am getting the basics wrong here.
It isn't a linear response system. Yes, if you pump someone with supranormal levels like quadruple, they'll build more. But even increases in one person of up to 60% as seen from d-aspartic acid, don't actually increase muscle building. So for normal ranges, you aren't going to see any kind of reliable correlation.
On top of that, when signaling hormones decrease in the body, there is a natural tendency to increase receptors - the inverse is pretty much how diabetes happens, cells get rid of insulin receptors because they think the pancreas is broken and over signaling. So as an man ages, his receptors might increase to react to it, thought that's one I don't have empirical evidence for like the d-aspartic acid results.
There is also the complex case of HRT, which does seem to increase muscle, but it is a bit disingenuous to call HRT to a "normal" test level, an actual normal test level. Normally, the body has cycles of test, HRT usually puts the level to "normal" based on the peak morning level and leaves it there 24/7.
wait, +60% test production from DAA? lol? is there a study for that?
if that is actually true then every man on the planet should be taking DAA
http://examine.com/supplements/D-Aspartic AcidThere appears to be an increase in testosterone in most subjects acutely (6-12 days), and while this may persist to the tune of 30-60% in infertile men it is reduced to
baseline within a month in otherwise healthy men with normal testosterone at baseline.
Ah so this is really only even applicable to men who should be on TRT anyway...
I don't know about you but I'd take an extra 60% testosterone any day
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Excellent thread!0
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griffinca2 wrote: »All, I'll let you know if age impacts any possible changes. I'm older than most (55+) and will be starting my recomp next week. I lost the 8-9 lbs I wanted to lose but am still carrying more body fat than I want and would also like some muscle definition.
The biggest impact with age is crappier recovery.
But there's various ways to optimise recovery. Also you can adapt programming to work around it.
Agreed - also, potential for orthopedic injuries and degeneration. Biggest risk there though is impact cardio. Second is overly repetitive cardio (not switching things up).
*nods* I have a knee issue (worn cartilage and some bone spurs) - and not from cardio - as I do not do it. I have to work around it/adapt. General recovery itself has never been an issue however (so far that is).
Ah, sorry
Glad your recovery's still ok
Working around/adapting involves a whole other skillset - and mindset - imo. Like learning to attend to and interpret pain signals with more care, being more conscious of form, etc.
I'm probably not representative of most people here, so for me that means different things as far as the workouts I do, but I'm curious to know - have others approaching their middle years changed their approach to programming, rep ranges, etc.?
I'm thinking about maybe doing some Pilates to address stabilizers (bc of my special issues), and have become more interested in nutrition for health (at least in part to optimize recovery).
Thank you :flowerforyou:
I actually only started lifting at 45 (I lifted before a long layoff...5 year long one - but my goals and therefore routine is very different now - and even then, I don't think I set foot in a gym until I was about 35), so I do not have a good comparison. However, I used to do a lot of volume and lift 5 days a week with no real recovery issues. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I pinched my synovial membrane in my knee, getting off the couch of all things, and ended up having an MRI that showed the cartilage and bone spur issue as well as a small meniscus tear. There is so much going on there that its hard to assess what is causing the slight pain I still have - so we are playing it safe and only squatting once a week and have adapted my deadlifts (I pull conventional mainly now but I am really a sumo puller). It is impacting my goals as I train for strength as opposed to hypertrophy - the hypertrophy is an added benefit and is also necessary to increase strength to a degree. Anyhoo...back to the point - there are things you can do to work around limitations. I do occluded step ups, split squats and other leg work that has less impact on my knee for hypertrophy for example.
In answer to your question, I did not do anything different to anyone else due to my age. I think that part of it was because I do pay attention to how my body is feeling and do not feel the need to push things past what I think is 'safe'. If I am having a lifting bad session, I will often just cut it short. Not saying I do that all the time, but I think I am more likely to than I was when I was younger. I did have to adapt due to an injury though, that my age is most likely a large contributing factor to (coz I know cardio isn't lol). Ironic - a powerlifter who does no cardio has what is effectively runners knee.
IMO - best way to optimize recovery - get enough sleep (which is an issue for me).0 -
griffinca2 wrote: »All, I'll let you know if age impacts any possible changes. I'm older than most (55+) and will be starting my recomp next week. I lost the 8-9 lbs I wanted to lose but am still carrying more body fat than I want and would also like some muscle definition.
The biggest impact with age is crappier recovery.
But there's various ways to optimise recovery. Also you can adapt programming to work around it.
Agreed - also, potential for orthopedic injuries and degeneration. Biggest risk there though is impact cardio. Second is overly repetitive cardio (not switching things up).
*nods* I have a knee issue (worn cartilage and some bone spurs) - and not from cardio - as I do not do it. I have to work around it/adapt. General recovery itself has never been an issue however (so far that is).
Ah, sorry Glad your recovery's still ok
Working around/adapting involves a whole other skillset - and mindset - imo. Like learning to attend to and interpret pain signals with more care, being more conscious of form, etc.
I'm probably not representative of most people here, so for me that means different things as far as the workouts I do, but I'm curious to know - have others approaching their middle years changed their approach to programming, rep ranges, etc.?
I'm thinking about maybe doing some Pilates to address stabilizers (bc of my special issues), and have become more interested in nutrition for health (at least in part to optimize recovery).
Thank you :flowerforyou:
I actually only started lifting at 45 (I lifted before a long layoff...5 year long one - but my goals and therefore routine is very different now - and even then, I don't think I set foot in a gym until I was about 35), so I do not have a good comparison. However, I used to do a lot of volume and lift 5 days a week with no real recovery issues. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I pinched my synovial membrane in my knee, getting off the couch of all things, and ended up having an MRI that showed the cartilage and bone spur issue as well as a small meniscus tear. There is so much going on there that its hard to assess what is causing the slight pain I still have - so we are playing it safe and only squatting once a week and have adapted my deadlifts (I pull conventional mainly now but I am really a sumo puller). It is impacting my goals as I train for strength as opposed to hypertrophy - the hypertrophy is an added benefit and is also necessary to increase strength to a degree. Anyhoo...back to the point - there are things you can do to work around limitations. I do occluded step ups, split squats and other leg work that has less impact on my knee for hypertrophy for example.
In answer to your question, I did not do anything different to anyone else due to my age. I think that part of it was because I do pay attention to how my body is feeling and do not feel the need to push things past what I think is 'safe'. If I am having a lifting bad session, I will often just cut it short. Not saying I do that all the time, but I think I am more likely to than I was when I was younger. I did have to adapt due to an injury though, that my age is most likely a large contributing factor to (coz I know cardio isn't lol). Ironic - a powerlifter who does no cardio has what is effectively runners knee.
IMO - best way to optimize recovery - get enough sleep (which is an issue for me).
Ouch! It's often silly things like that that do it, isn't it? (I once gave myself torticollis blow-drying my hair
)
Thank you for offering such a comprehensive response - I think others will gain a lot from it. (I know I have! Occluded step-ups, for example!)
It sounds like you're doing the very best you can, in spite of some unknowns. And obviously, the results are there
Sleep is a huge factor in recovery (and general well-being), I completely agree.0 -
In answer to your question, I did not do anything different to anyone else due to my age. I think that part of it was because I do pay attention to how my body is feeling and do not feel the need to push things past what I think is 'safe'. If I am having a lifting bad session, I will often just cut it short. Not saying I do that all the time, but I think I am more likely to than I was when I was younger. I did have to adapt due to an injury though, that my age is most likely a large contributing factor to (coz I know cardio isn't lol). Ironic - a powerlifter who does no cardio has what is effectively runners knee.
This. You either learn to train smarter as you get older, or you end up not training eventually. Better to stay in the game and actually derive some benefit long-term.IMO - best way to optimize recovery - get enough sleep (which is an issue for me).
And definitely this. First thing people 30+ should get in order along with their eating if they're on any rigorous training schedule. You only have so much recovery in the budget as the years go on, so don't waste it unnecessarily.
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arditarose wrote: »I don't have a start of recomp to current picture because I didn't think to take something that wasn't fully clothed at the time.
I do however have a comparison between when I started lifting and now since I can't begin to praise the difference lifting has made in my body. There's only a 10 pound difference between the left and the middle/right photos. Crappy quality photo but I shows the progress. So this does include the last 3 months of recomp.
Thank you for posting this. I've been freaking out this week about spikes on the scale/not feeling slim enough on the beach and have been considering stopping my recomp, cutting more, and bulking in the late fall. You give me hope though.
So there's a cut in there somewhere between the time of your before picture and your "after", right? I know in the first post you mentioned you are staying at 118. Just curious.
@arditarose I had the exact same worry thinking I should cut more for the summer (so much that I did this weird thing where I'd eat maintenance calories but couldn't bring myself to make the manual change to my calorie goal in the diary settings...which made no logical sense at all lol). I'd love to stay in recomp through the fall if I didn't have a bulk time frame I wanted to hit.
Once I finally made myself take the progress photos I felt a LOT better about it. It's so hard to see the recomp changes when you're just looking at yourself in the mirror.
And yep, there was about an 10 pound cut between the two pictures. I'd say the time difference split was probably 50% cut 50% recomp.0 -
I don't have a start of recomp to current picture because I didn't think to take something that wasn't fully clothed at the time.
I do however have a comparison between when I started lifting and now since I can't begin to praise the difference lifting has made in my body. There's only a 10 pound difference between the left and the middle/right photos. Crappy quality photo but I shows the progress. So this does include the last 3 months of recomp.
Ooft! Well done!
Thanks!0 -
ExRelaySprinter wrote: »@terar21 What a transformation,....you look great!
@ExRelaySprinter thank you!0 -
When I'm logging my calories I have a goal of 2060 calories for maintenance as a 142 lb, 5'9, 19 y/o male. I do NOT, however, log my lifting or running calories. Is it better for me to continue doing this as a recomp or try and log my lost calories as best I can? Any help would be appreciated.0
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hoppertaylor wrote: »When I'm logging my calories I have a goal of 2060 calories for maintenance as a 142 lb, 5'9, 19 y/o male. I do NOT, however, log my lifting or running calories. Is it better for me to continue doing this as a recomp or try and log my lost calories as best I can? Any help would be appreciated.
Well, a recomp means eating at maintenance - eating what you burn in other words to not lose weight.
If you are NOT accounting for calories burned doing exercise - then are you really eating at maintenance, or in a deficit?0 -
hoppertaylor wrote: »When I'm logging my calories I have a goal of 2060 calories for maintenance as a 142 lb, 5'9, 19 y/o male. I do NOT, however, log my lifting or running calories. Is it better for me to continue doing this as a recomp or try and log my lost calories as best I can? Any help would be appreciated.
The key to whether you should be eating your exercise calories or not is whether or not you are going up/down/staying the same weight.
If you aren't logging your calories burned, but still aren't losing weight, then you are effectively eating at maintenance. If you are going down, add some exercise calories. If you are going up, reevaluate.
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hoppertaylor wrote: »When I'm logging my calories I have a goal of 2060 calories for maintenance as a 142 lb, 5'9, 19 y/o male. I do NOT, however, log my lifting or running calories. Is it better for me to continue doing this as a recomp or try and log my lost calories as best I can? Any help would be appreciated.
Well, a recomp means eating at maintenance - eating what you burn in other words to not lose weight.
If you are NOT accounting for calories burned doing exercise - then are you really eating at maintenance, or in a deficit?
My only concern is that the calories burned may not be correct and with an extended amount of time, any excess eaten calories would catch up with me. I am not able to effectively weigh myself on a regular basis and can go months without seeing a scale. If I'm trying to recomp, I would imagine it would be safer to eat in a deficit while being as close to maintenance as possible rather than have an excess of calories, correct?0 -
hoppertaylor wrote: »hoppertaylor wrote: »When I'm logging my calories I have a goal of 2060 calories for maintenance as a 142 lb, 5'9, 19 y/o male. I do NOT, however, log my lifting or running calories. Is it better for me to continue doing this as a recomp or try and log my lost calories as best I can? Any help would be appreciated.
Well, a recomp means eating at maintenance - eating what you burn in other words to not lose weight.
If you are NOT accounting for calories burned doing exercise - then are you really eating at maintenance, or in a deficit?
My only concern is that the calories burned may not be correct and with an extended amount of time, any excess eaten calories would catch up with me. I am not able to effectively weigh myself on a regular basis and can go months without seeing a scale. If I'm trying to recomp, I would imagine it would be safer to eat in a deficit while being as close to maintenance as possible rather than have an excess of calories, correct?
You'll notice it long before it would catch up with you. Even without a scale (do you do that on purpose or is there something restricting you from access to a scale), you can pay close attention to your body's appearance, how your clothes fit you, etc.
You really can't worry about small variables in exercise burn. It's all a variable. Even what you're doing right now is only an estimate because your body's daily burn (minus the exercise) and is affected by how much general activity you get throughout the day. It's not the same daily. You'll drive yourself crazy worrying about that.
Account for the exercise and eat at maintenance. Some days you'll be lower. Some days you'll be higher.
Even trying to being in a deficit and getting as close to maintenance as possible is still having to account for exercise calories...just at a different number. So why not account for them at maintenance?0 -
hoppertaylor wrote: »hoppertaylor wrote: »When I'm logging my calories I have a goal of 2060 calories for maintenance as a 142 lb, 5'9, 19 y/o male. I do NOT, however, log my lifting or running calories. Is it better for me to continue doing this as a recomp or try and log my lost calories as best I can? Any help would be appreciated.
Well, a recomp means eating at maintenance - eating what you burn in other words to not lose weight.
If you are NOT accounting for calories burned doing exercise - then are you really eating at maintenance, or in a deficit?
My only concern is that the calories burned may not be correct and with an extended amount of time, any excess eaten calories would catch up with me. I am not able to effectively weigh myself on a regular basis and can go months without seeing a scale. If I'm trying to recomp, I would imagine it would be safer to eat in a deficit while being as close to maintenance as possible rather than have an excess of calories, correct?
You'll notice it long before it would catch up with you. Even without a scale (do you do that on purpose or is there something restricting you from access to a scale), you can pay close attention to your body's appearance, how your clothes fit you, etc.
You really can't worry about small variables in exercise burn. It's all a variable. Even what you're doing right now is only an estimate because your body's daily burn (minus the exercise) and is affected by how much general activity you get throughout the day. It's not the same daily. You'll drive yourself crazy worrying about that.
Account for the exercise and eat at maintenance. Some days you'll be lower. Some days you'll be higher.
Even trying to being in a deficit and getting as close to maintenance as possible is still having to account for exercise calories...just at a different number. So why not account for them at maintenance?
It is due to a sort of restriction. Regardless, would the outcome of me wanting to lose body fat while gaining tone and definition change regardless of the method used?0 -
Great information here! Thanks, everyone!0
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hoppertaylor wrote: »hoppertaylor wrote: »When I'm logging my calories I have a goal of 2060 calories for maintenance as a 142 lb, 5'9, 19 y/o male. I do NOT, however, log my lifting or running calories. Is it better for me to continue doing this as a recomp or try and log my lost calories as best I can? Any help would be appreciated.
Well, a recomp means eating at maintenance - eating what you burn in other words to not lose weight.
If you are NOT accounting for calories burned doing exercise - then are you really eating at maintenance, or in a deficit?
My only concern is that the calories burned may not be correct and with an extended amount of time, any excess eaten calories would catch up with me. I am not able to effectively weigh myself on a regular basis and can go months without seeing a scale. If I'm trying to recomp, I would imagine it would be safer to eat in a deficit while being as close to maintenance as possible rather than have an excess of calories, correct?
Incorrect.
The use of the word "safer" in regard to being in deficit is a red flag to be honest. Sounds like an irrational fear (at the least).
You seem to think that exercise calorie estimates being "incorrect" automatically means over-estimated?
Not taking exercise into account is guaranteed to be wrong! Either TDEE method or MFP eat back method works. Ignoring significant exercise expenditure when you are trying to maintain isn't likely to work.
You need to take emotion out of weight or you will be very stressed. Excess means gaining mass, deficit means losing mass - nothing more.
You must have access to a mirror, tape measure or camera?
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hoppertaylor wrote: »hoppertaylor wrote: »When I'm logging my calories I have a goal of 2060 calories for maintenance as a 142 lb, 5'9, 19 y/o male. I do NOT, however, log my lifting or running calories. Is it better for me to continue doing this as a recomp or try and log my lost calories as best I can? Any help would be appreciated.
Well, a recomp means eating at maintenance - eating what you burn in other words to not lose weight.
If you are NOT accounting for calories burned doing exercise - then are you really eating at maintenance, or in a deficit?
My only concern is that the calories burned may not be correct and with an extended amount of time, any excess eaten calories would catch up with me. I am not able to effectively weigh myself on a regular basis and can go months without seeing a scale. If I'm trying to recomp, I would imagine it would be safer to eat in a deficit while being as close to maintenance as possible rather than have an excess of calories, correct?
Incorrect.
The use of the word "safer" in regard to being in deficit is a red flag to be honest. Sounds like an irrational fear (at the least).
You seem to think that exercise calorie estimates being "incorrect" automatically means over-estimated?
Not taking exercise into account is guaranteed to be wrong! Either TDEE method or MFP eat back method works. Ignoring significant exercise expenditure when you are trying to maintain isn't likely to work.
You need to take emotion out of weight or you will be very stressed. Excess means gaining mass, deficit means losing mass - nothing more.
You must have access to a mirror, tape measure or camera?
Correct, access to each of those. I am taking into the account that the "60 minutes" I'm at the gym may not be 60 minutes I work out and the exercises vary each 8-12 minutes. I have no way of measuring how many actual calories are burned while lifting and can only hope that the MFP running calories are close to what I actually burn.
Irrational fear, maybe. It's a fear I've had for a while of becoming like my parents in the aspect of genetically skinny to borderline overweight. I'm trying to get into a healthy and lean lifestyle now so that in the future it is easier to maintain.0 -
If you honestly did the pace you picked for the time you stated, walking and running calories are the most accurate.
Like if you eventually made it up to running 8 mph with 60 min, but only ran 6 miles total - you don't pick the pace of 8mph, but the 6 mph one.
Strength Training in the database is actually decent estimate too - low compared to cardio, but that is true.
It's based on studies with reps 5-15, sets, and rests 2-4 min.
Circuit training is the 15+ reps, rests 1 min or less, and circuits.
So unless you get distracted talking for 10 min blocks of time and count it - your time is good.
What I like to do once with a new routine, is focus on doing it with normal rests, no distractions, lift to lift, and note that true workout time. Then in future doing it, if I do get distracted and talk, or go out of order, or wait for equipment - I know what the true time is, without that stuff happening.
True - you have no way of truly measuring. You think anyone does?
Is 0 more correct than another number?
Don't worry - with a good workouts - your body will know exactly what to do with those few extra calories.0 -
If you honestly did the pace you picked for the time you stated, walking and running calories are the most accurate.
Like if you eventually made it up to running 8 mph with 60 min, but only ran 6 miles total - you don't pick the pace of 8mph, but the 6 mph one.
Strength Training in the database is actually decent estimate too - low compared to cardio, but that is true.
It's based on studies with reps 5-15, sets, and rests 2-4 min.
Circuit training is the 15+ reps, rests 1 min or less, and circuits.
So unless you get distracted talking for 10 min blocks of time and count it - your time is good.
What I like to do once with a new routine, is focus on doing it with normal rests, no distractions, lift to lift, and note that true workout time. Then in future doing it, if I do get distracted and talk, or go out of order, or wait for equipment - I know what the true time is, without that stuff happening.
True - you have no way of truly measuring. You think anyone does?
Is 0 more correct than another number?
Don't worry - with a good workouts - your body will know exactly what to do with those few extra calories.
Alright, thank you for the clarification. I'll do what u can to get over the fear of overeating and just go for it while lifting heavy. I can tell a difference in my abs and arms based on my last few weeks so we will see how all of it is affected with eating at maintenance and not worrying about a little surplus.0 -
I have a body recomp question. The answer may have been posted already, so my apologies if this is a repeat question.
My goal for the longest time has been to get into a healthy BMI. I'm about 4 lbs away from that goal. However, now that the weather is gorgeous, I've been doing a lot of yard work. I'm eating more calories than I should be to just lose weight (and before anyone picks apart my diet choices, I'm happy with how I'm eating). I do a lot of activities that require me to be strong. Yesterday I was carrying a 5 year old piggy back, while pulling a 3, 5, and 7 year old in a wagon, walking for a total of one hour. Things like this don't get reflected accurately with my fitbit, so I'm alright with the fact that I'm over my calories every day (got a nice buffer though, set at a 2 lb/week deficit as my calorie goal). Anyway, I digress, but that's a bit of the background story. I'm 31, 5'8", and currently maintaining between 168-170 lbs (with around 164 being my overweight-normal goal BMI threshold). I initially wanted to get down to 145 lbs, but that's probably years away if I continue on my current trend of maintaining and building muscle.
My question is, if I am building my muscle because I'm eating closer to maintenance (and I know I'm getting stronger, I can feel the difference in the amount of topsoil I can haul around with the wheelbarrow), and my clothes are getting smaller (on the cusp of transition between a size 12 to 11), then how do I know when I'm into the 'normal' range for my size? My brain tricks me often, some days I see my old self, and some days I see myself as smaller than I actually am (which was a huge problem when I was 195 lbs. In my mind I thought I looked closer to someone who was 160 lbs). I'd ask my husband, but he's no help lol. So how will I know? Either way I'm loving my new lifestyle, I feel great, I can see a huge difference in my strength, my endurance, and my flexibility. My fat hangs off my body, so I can see all these weird ripple indents on my skin, and I can pull it away from my body. I'm down over 20", although my arm measurements aren't changing much because of my new bat wings hanging down lol. Any insight would be appreciated 0 -
KrunchyMama wrote: »
My question is, if I am building my muscle because I'm eating closer to maintenance (and I know I'm getting stronger, I can feel the difference in the amount of topsoil I can haul around with the wheelbarrow), and my clothes are getting smaller (on the cusp of transition between a size 12 to 11), then how do I know when I'm into the 'normal' range for my size?
Could you clarify what you mean with normal range? Range in what?
Weight
Clothing size
Body measurements
Calories
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Could you clarify what you mean with normal range? Range in what?
Weight
Clothing size
Body measurements
Calories
I guess it would be range for any/all the above. Because if my muscle mass is higher, then my BMI would be off/incorrect right?
So what's a 'normal'/healthy size for clothing and/or weight and/or body measurements? Or maybe that range is too broad, because some people my height could get to a size 2-4, but I know my hips couldn't get that small, no matter how hard I tried.
Just trying to figure out the point where someone could look at me and think 'yup, she's a healthy weight', not 'yup, she's overweight'. I was using BMI to try and find this point, but if I'm recomping then it will probably be a while before I get within the healthy BMI range.
I'm still relatively new to this, so my apologies if I'm not making sense!
ETA: Maybe it seems silly, but I've been overweight my entire life, so this line is kind of a big deal to me, and sitting on the edge is driving me crazy. I know I could probably just not recomp, and eat my MFP allotted calories to lose weight, but I'm sick of being grumpy from calorie restriction, especially now that I've found a good balance of eating (that doesn't leave me feeling dizzy) and exercising (where I can feel and see huge improvements). It's just this darn scale/BMI number that I'm kind of hung up on.0 -
hoppertaylor wrote: »If you honestly did the pace you picked for the time you stated, walking and running calories are the most accurate.
Like if you eventually made it up to running 8 mph with 60 min, but only ran 6 miles total - you don't pick the pace of 8mph, but the 6 mph one.
Strength Training in the database is actually decent estimate too - low compared to cardio, but that is true.
It's based on studies with reps 5-15, sets, and rests 2-4 min.
Circuit training is the 15+ reps, rests 1 min or less, and circuits.
So unless you get distracted talking for 10 min blocks of time and count it - your time is good.
What I like to do once with a new routine, is focus on doing it with normal rests, no distractions, lift to lift, and note that true workout time. Then in future doing it, if I do get distracted and talk, or go out of order, or wait for equipment - I know what the true time is, without that stuff happening.
True - you have no way of truly measuring. You think anyone does?
Is 0 more correct than another number?
Don't worry - with a good workouts - your body will know exactly what to do with those few extra calories.
Alright, thank you for the clarification. I'll do what u can to get over the fear of overeating and just go for it while lifting heavy. I can tell a difference in my abs and arms based on my last few weeks so we will see how all of it is affected with eating at maintenance and not worrying about a little surplus.
That's still mental fear talking there.
How do you know it's a little surplus and not a little deficit?0 -
KrunchyMama wrote: »
Could you clarify what you mean with normal range? Range in what?
Weight
Clothing size
Body measurements
Calories
I guess it would be range for any/all the above. Because if my muscle mass is higher, then my BMI would be off/incorrect right?
So what's a 'normal'/healthy size for clothing and/or weight and/or body measurements? Or maybe that range is too broad, because some people my height could get to a size 2-4, but I know my hips couldn't get that small, no matter how hard I tried.
Just trying to figure out the point where someone could look at me and think 'yup, she's a healthy weight', not 'yup, she's overweight'. I was using BMI to try and find this point, but if I'm recomping then it will probably be a while before I get within the healthy BMI range.
I'm still relatively new to this, so my apologies if I'm not making sense!
ETA: Maybe it seems silly, but I've been overweight my entire life, so this line is kind of a big deal to me, and sitting on the edge is driving me crazy. I know I could probably just not recomp, and eat my MFP allotted calories to lose weight, but I'm sick of being grumpy from calorie restriction, especially now that I've found a good balance of eating (that doesn't leave me feeling dizzy) and exercising (where I can feel and see huge improvements). It's just this darn scale/BMI number that I'm kind of hung up on.
Women's muscle growth is slow - any muscle growth is much slower that you can lose fat weight.
And big difference between using existing muscle to best of ability and actually growing more.
Getting stronger and looking bigger doesn't actually require more muscle mass. Not until existing is totally tapped out.
If still that far above what is considered healthy BMI (and true not great stat for individuals, but if you have no idea what healthy weight is for your frame, it's a place to start) where a Dr or nurse could likely look you up and down and decide too much bodyfat still - it will take a long.
You'll find in recommendations above and in many posts that recomping benefits from having an almost healthy amount of bodyfat. Too high, and you cause the muscle gains to slow down.
At those points, usually better to keep lifting with small deficit to keep losing fat and weight faster, and accept you'll get noobie muscle gains anyway (after existing muscle is tapped out).
You'd have to gain a decent amount of muscle for the BMI aspect to be thrown off enough to matter.
Because if you think about it - going by BMI - you'll never reach healthy BMI if the weight stays the same, and height probably won't change. But many years down the road with enough fat loss and muscle gain you could reach point where BMI no longer applies as accurate assessment of healthy weight.
Oh yeah - 2 lb weekly deficit goal with only 4 lbs to go to healthy weight range - not great idea.
Especially since you explain you are burning more than the Fitbit is even aware of -meaning the deficit is even bigger. But you go over goal slightly, but probably not enough to make the deficit reasonable.0 -
hoppertaylor wrote: »hoppertaylor wrote: »hoppertaylor wrote: »When I'm logging my calories I have a goal of 2060 calories for maintenance as a 142 lb, 5'9, 19 y/o male. I do NOT, however, log my lifting or running calories. Is it better for me to continue doing this as a recomp or try and log my lost calories as best I can? Any help would be appreciated.
Well, a recomp means eating at maintenance - eating what you burn in other words to not lose weight.
If you are NOT accounting for calories burned doing exercise - then are you really eating at maintenance, or in a deficit?
My only concern is that the calories burned may not be correct and with an extended amount of time, any excess eaten calories would catch up with me. I am not able to effectively weigh myself on a regular basis and can go months without seeing a scale. If I'm trying to recomp, I would imagine it would be safer to eat in a deficit while being as close to maintenance as possible rather than have an excess of calories, correct?
You'll notice it long before it would catch up with you. Even without a scale (do you do that on purpose or is there something restricting you from access to a scale), you can pay close attention to your body's appearance, how your clothes fit you, etc.
You really can't worry about small variables in exercise burn. It's all a variable. Even what you're doing right now is only an estimate because your body's daily burn (minus the exercise) and is affected by how much general activity you get throughout the day. It's not the same daily. You'll drive yourself crazy worrying about that.
Account for the exercise and eat at maintenance. Some days you'll be lower. Some days you'll be higher.
Even trying to being in a deficit and getting as close to maintenance as possible is still having to account for exercise calories...just at a different number. So why not account for them at maintenance?
It is due to a sort of restriction. Regardless, would the outcome of me wanting to lose body fat while gaining tone and definition change regardless of the method used?
Not if your goal is building muscle, IMO. If your goal is potentially a little weight loss, then yes.
Personally, my goal for this recomp is capitalizing on what little muscle I can and increasing strength. So I prefer to be a little over in my maintenance calories. I'd prefer not to have passive 200 calorie deficit days. It's safer for me to be slightly over if anything. The worst that could happen is 8 weeks down the line, I realize I've gained a single pound, that I can lose in a couple weeks without making any major adjustments. Or embrace the pound because...it's a pound. As long as the clothes feel right and the measurements match up, I'm good. And for me, any time I've seen jumps in the scale it's just my sodium level or some muscles retaining water after a really tough workout.
But it's up to you really. If you'd like to exclude your exercise calories for safety purposes, you can. You'll just not be in recomp...rather still cutting. You'll indeed be losing body fat, but that's it. And I doubt you want to be in a perpetual cut. At some point you have to accept the exercise calories as something you must consume.
However, I do agree with the poster that says you might be holding onto an irrational fear. I think it's normal. It took me a second to be relaxed about maintenance. You just have to realize that if you're doing the right thing, you just don't pick up extra pounds over night.1 -
hoppertaylor wrote: »hoppertaylor wrote: »hoppertaylor wrote: »When I'm logging my calories I have a goal of 2060 calories for maintenance as a 142 lb, 5'9, 19 y/o male. I do NOT, however, log my lifting or running calories. Is it better for me to continue doing this as a recomp or try and log my lost calories as best I can? Any help would be appreciated.
Well, a recomp means eating at maintenance - eating what you burn in other words to not lose weight.
If you are NOT accounting for calories burned doing exercise - then are you really eating at maintenance, or in a deficit?
My only concern is that the calories burned may not be correct and with an extended amount of time, any excess eaten calories would catch up with me. I am not able to effectively weigh myself on a regular basis and can go months without seeing a scale. If I'm trying to recomp, I would imagine it would be safer to eat in a deficit while being as close to maintenance as possible rather than have an excess of calories, correct?
You'll notice it long before it would catch up with you. Even without a scale (do you do that on purpose or is there something restricting you from access to a scale), you can pay close attention to your body's appearance, how your clothes fit you, etc.
You really can't worry about small variables in exercise burn. It's all a variable. Even what you're doing right now is only an estimate because your body's daily burn (minus the exercise) and is affected by how much general activity you get throughout the day. It's not the same daily. You'll drive yourself crazy worrying about that.
Account for the exercise and eat at maintenance. Some days you'll be lower. Some days you'll be higher.
Even trying to being in a deficit and getting as close to maintenance as possible is still having to account for exercise calories...just at a different number. So why not account for them at maintenance?
It is due to a sort of restriction. Regardless, would the outcome of me wanting to lose body fat while gaining tone and definition change regardless of the method used?
Not if your goal is building muscle, IMO. If your goal is potentially a little weight loss, then yes.
Personally, my goal for this recomp is capitalizing on what little muscle I can and increasing strength. So I prefer to be a little over in my maintenance calories. I'd prefer not to have passive 200 calorie deficit days. It's safer for me to be slightly over if anything. The worst that could happen is 8 weeks down the line, I realize I've gained a single pound, that I can lose in a couple weeks without making any major adjustments. Or embrace the pound because...it's a pound. As long as the clothes feel right and the measurements match up, I'm good. And for me, any time I've seen jumps in the scale it's just my sodium level or some muscles retaining water after a really tough workout.
But it's up to you really. If you'd like to exclude your exercise calories for safety purposes, you can. You'll just not be in recomp...rather still cutting. You'll indeed be losing body fat, but that's it. And I doubt you want to be in a perpetual cut. At some point you have to accept the exercise calories as something you must consume.
However, I do agree with the poster that says you might be holding onto an irrational fear. I think it's normal. It took me a second to be relaxed about maintenance. You just have to realize that if you're doing the right thing, you just don't pick up extra pounds over night.
This is so much on the money.
Where's the like button for the forums?0 -
@heybales Thank you so much for the info! Much appreciated 0
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KrunchyMama - I found my fitbit over estimated my calories by at least 200 calories even though I run around after young kids and do things like weight lifting that it couldn't account for. When I went with TDEE and a small deficit I started losing. You aren't going to gain the amount of muscle necessary to throw off your BMI number through an active lifestyle. That is more of an issue for body builders or elite athletes. Even with a calories surplus and heavy weight lifting, you would be lucky to gain 10 lbs of muscle in a year. I have been lifting heavy weights for a year and half and I'm not where near gaining that much muscle.0
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Oh dear, people please flag and report.
Edit: OK, it is gone now. Thanks.0 -
KrunchyMama - I found my fitbit over estimated my calories by at least 200 calories even though I run around after young kids and do things like weight lifting that it couldn't account for. When I went with TDEE and a small deficit I started losing. You aren't going to gain the amount of muscle necessary to throw off your BMI number through an active lifestyle. That is more of an issue for body builders or elite athletes. Even with a calories surplus and heavy weight lifting, you would be lucky to gain 10 lbs of muscle in a year. I have been lifting heavy weights for a year and half and I'm not where near gaining that much muscle.
Yes, I've noticed the next day that my fitbit retracts about 500 calories. I always go back to check and adjust my calories accordingly for the day ahead. Kind of a pita to do, I wish it worked based on what I had already burned, not what I'm projected to burn for the rest of the day. I added a few pics to my profile to show the beginning steps of my recomp (the difference between me at 170.6 versus 169.8). It's not much, but I can feel/see it 0
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