Why the study that showed taking vitamins don't work, is wrong.
Replies
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There's no way the body can absorb 20g of vitamin c a day. Nevermind that everyone raves because it's an antixodant, but in high doses it becomes an oxidant and can cause DNA damage. Of course, in biochemical they said we'd never have to worry about that because your body can't absorb that much unless it starts malfunctioning. At this point, you just have very expensive pee.
If you do an internet search, there are many positive testimonials on taking this dose for periodontal disease.
@auddii I don't take 20g all at once. I take 5g at a time spaced throughout the day.
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christinev297 wrote: »There's no way the body can absorb 20g of vitamin c a day. Nevermind that everyone raves because it's an antixodant, but in high doses it becomes an oxidant and can cause DNA damage. Of course, in biochemical they said we'd never have to worry about that because your body can't absorb that much unless it starts malfunctioning. At this point, you just have very expensive pee.
If you do an internet search, there are many positive testimonials on taking this dose for periodontal disease.
@auddii I don't take 20g all at once. I take 5g at a time spaced throughout the day.
If you rely on testimonials instead of science (peer reviewed repeatable studies), there are tons of things on the internet you can believe. Perhaps magnets or copper bands can help as well.0 -
The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.0 -
mantium999 wrote: »
Actually, its a valid question. I couldnt tell you how often people come on to this forum to help promote youtube views or help sell ones services.mantium999 wrote: »
For the sake of full disclosure, as you seem to be highly interested in this topic and her work. Do you by chance have a personal connection to this Dr. Patrick?
Clever method of attacking the OP.
Quite frankly, i regularly ban and/or hand out strikes on a daily basis for self promotion or advertising.
This. The OP has made multiple references to the work of a particular doc. I myself have little knowledge in the topic at hand, and enjoy learning. Seems reasonable, when a person seems passionate about a particular source of information to try qualifying the reason for that passion, so that others can assess the validity of the information being provided. And while he did link a couple of other sources of information, those posts didn't include the same level of defense/passion as the posts that include discussion of Dr. Patrick. Wasn't in any way intended to attack anyone, simply curious why one particular doc is held in such high regard. Simple curiosity.
@mantium999 Because no one attacked the other references I cited. You have a bunch of unqualified people calling her a quack, with no basis to call it. Yeah, that initial video I posted has some dumb power point text over her dialogue, but the information is not incorrect or invalid because of it. Yet, people are dismissing it, and outright calling BS on her... for what?0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »
What do vitamins have to do with that?
Not gonna lie I've been lurking on this thread the whole time and you're not not doing very well at convincing me to your claims. And neither are the sources you cite.
@UltimateRBF Well that's a shame. My apologies.0 -
I don't think there's any harm in taking a mulit-vitamin along with eating well. I take one. I believe the problem is that people that don't eat well take vitamins believing they reach correct RDA with them when that may not be the entire truth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
@ninerbuff That's why every nutrition expert worth anything is telling people to go get your blood work done, when it comes to making sure your levels are correct. Including the OP videos. On top of that, it's also stressed to find the appropriate food to get your daily nutrition from. But where it lacks, you should supplement.0 -
Actually, its a valid question. I couldnt tell you how often people come on to this forum to help promote youtube views or help sell ones services.mantium999 wrote: »
For the sake of full disclosure, as you seem to be highly interested in this topic and her work. Do you by chance have a personal connection to this Dr. Patrick?
Clever method of attacking the OP.
Quite frankly, i regularly ban and/or hand out strikes on a daily basis for self promotion or advertising.
@psulemon Feel free to add me, and you'll see I'm not schill.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
There are some people that can't believe that a vitamin will do that and it's a shame. You might want to check out Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul. It's a very good book.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
Yes, but you are taking about 20 times more that what is considered safe, and more than 200 times the recommended dose! There are some interesting long term risks associated with vitamin c megadoses:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/1001.html#Safety
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminC-Consumer/#h20 -
TheDevastator wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
There are some people that can't believe that a vitamin will do that and it's a shame. You might want to check out Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul. It's a very good book.
How about some actual studies, instead of books and youtube videos? That would help. I posted one above saying just eating a reasonable diet has enough vit C and most other micronutrients you need.0 -
mantium999 wrote: »
Actually, its a valid question. I couldnt tell you how often people come on to this forum to help promote youtube views or help sell ones services.mantium999 wrote: »
For the sake of full disclosure, as you seem to be highly interested in this topic and her work. Do you by chance have a personal connection to this Dr. Patrick?
Clever method of attacking the OP.
Quite frankly, i regularly ban and/or hand out strikes on a daily basis for self promotion or advertising.
This. The OP has made multiple references to the work of a particular doc. I myself have little knowledge in the topic at hand, and enjoy learning. Seems reasonable, when a person seems passionate about a particular source of information to try qualifying the reason for that passion, so that others can assess the validity of the information being provided. And while he did link a couple of other sources of information, those posts didn't include the same level of defense/passion as the posts that include discussion of Dr. Patrick. Wasn't in any way intended to attack anyone, simply curious why one particular doc is held in such high regard. Simple curiosity.
@mantium999 Because no one attacked the other references I cited. You have a bunch of unqualified people calling her a quack, with no basis to call it. Yeah, that initial video I posted has some dumb power point text over her dialogue, but the information is not incorrect or invalid because of it. Yet, people are dismissing it, and outright calling BS on her... for what?
How do you know the information on the youtube video is correct? Have you validated her claims with outside sources to confirm? Or do you find her interesting and believe she is unbiased and makes good recommendations.
Youtube is not a credible aource of information. Just look at freelee the banana girl or Dr. Lustig and the millions of others who post similar videos.
On and btw, i take a one a day supplement and a fish oil because i have seen several studies suggesting fish can help imrpove hdl and lower ldl cholesterol so i am seeing if that is the case for me. And the multivitamin is there to address shortfalls in my diet because not everday will be perfect.
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I don't think there's any harm in taking a mulit-vitamin along with eating well. I take one. I believe the problem is that people that don't eat well take vitamins believing they reach correct RDA with them when that may not be the entire truth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
@ninerbuff That's why every nutrition expert worth anything is telling people to go get your blood work done, when it comes to making sure your levels are correct. Including the OP videos. On top of that, it's also stressed to find the appropriate food to get your daily nutrition from. But where it lacks, you should supplement.
Or just change your diet to meet the deficiency. I've read this thread, lurked, and am for the most part, not understanding how a balanced diet does not meet the requirements for micronutrients. IDK seems like a lot of huff and puff over nothing.
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_Terrapin_ wrote: »I don't think there's any harm in taking a mulit-vitamin along with eating well. I take one. I believe the problem is that people that don't eat well take vitamins believing they reach correct RDA with them when that may not be the entire truth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
@ninerbuff That's why every nutrition expert worth anything is telling people to go get your blood work done, when it comes to making sure your levels are correct. Including the OP videos. On top of that, it's also stressed to find the appropriate food to get your daily nutrition from. But where it lacks, you should supplement.
Or just change your diet to meet the deficiency. I've read this thread, lurked, and am for the most part, not understanding how a balanced diet does not meet the requirements for micronutrients. IDK seems like a lot of huff and puff over nothing.
No matter how balanced a diet is, if you are on a steep deficit like some women are (read eating 1200 calories) it's extremely unlikely to meet requirements. RDA is based on a an average of 2000 calories and is possible at or around that number. A smaller intake poses nutritional challenges and supplementing becomes a valid option. Now add exercise into the equation, and the nutrient threshold goes up, so even if eating more a person losing weight while exercising may still be unable to meet all of their needs.0 -
TheDevastator wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
There are some people that can't believe that a vitamin will do that and it's a shame.
Those people are called "scientists"You might want to check out Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul. It's a very good book.
Better yet, base your decisions on science-based medicine rather than quackery
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amusedmonkey wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »I don't think there's any harm in taking a mulit-vitamin along with eating well. I take one. I believe the problem is that people that don't eat well take vitamins believing they reach correct RDA with them when that may not be the entire truth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
@ninerbuff That's why every nutrition expert worth anything is telling people to go get your blood work done, when it comes to making sure your levels are correct. Including the OP videos. On top of that, it's also stressed to find the appropriate food to get your daily nutrition from. But where it lacks, you should supplement.
Or just change your diet to meet the deficiency. I've read this thread, lurked, and am for the most part, not understanding how a balanced diet does not meet the requirements for micronutrients. IDK seems like a lot of huff and puff over nothing.
No matter how balanced a diet is, if you are on a steep deficit like some women are (read eating 1200 calories) it's extremely unlikely to meet requirements. RDA is based on a an average of 2000 calories and is possible at or around that number. A smaller intake poses nutritional challenges and supplementing becomes a valid option. Now add exercise into the equation, and the nutrient threshold goes up, so even if eating more a person losing weight while exercising may still be unable to meet all of their needs.
You don't need a steep deficit to miss RDA requirements. I've read people on here who think healthy is eating, bacon, bacon grease, cheese, and butter(75% of their intake) and 2 beers at night and I've read diaries where people consume 1400 calories with a 80-10-10 adherence. So, while 1200 seems to be frequent for newer members(usually women who just hit the 2 pound loss button) it isn't the norm. I understand what your saying and for the vast majority of people the 'where it lacks, you should supplement' seems like a quick or easy fix versus learning what changes to the individual's diet could be made so they are hitting the RDA or some other set of numbers. They would also avoid paying for things they don't need to hit numbers they could hit by making small changes to their diet.
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stevencloser wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
There are some people that can't believe that a vitamin will do that and it's a shame. You might want to check out Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul. It's a very good book.
How about some actual studies, instead of books and youtube videos? That would help. I posted one above saying just eating a reasonable diet has enough vit C and most other micronutrients you need.
The studies are referenced in the book. I know you wouldn't get it but there may be others that will, free from your library.0 -
No if would more likely be doctors that want to push a drug with limited training in nutrition and vitamin therapy.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Those people are called "scientists"TheDevastator wrote: »
There are some people that can't believe that a vitamin will do that and it's a shame.christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
Some hospitals (the good ones) give intravenous vitamin C of high doses.
The book is science based and has a lot of references or else the FDA would be after him.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Better yet, base your decisions on science-based medicine rather than quackeryTheDevastator wrote: »You might want to check out Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul. It's a very good book.
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I don't disagree here. I think what the problem is is that many people lack the actual knowledge on how to select foods that help supply the RDA needed. So rather than bother themselves with trying to that, they'd rather take a multi vitamin thinking they did enough to achieve it.I don't think there's any harm in taking a mulit-vitamin along with eating well. I take one. I believe the problem is that people that don't eat well take vitamins believing they reach correct RDA with them when that may not be the entire truth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
@ninerbuff That's why every nutrition expert worth anything is telling people to go get your blood work done, when it comes to making sure your levels are correct. Including the OP videos. On top of that, it's also stressed to find the appropriate food to get your daily nutrition from. But where it lacks, you should supplement.
Again, I'm not against vitamin supplementation, I just believe that people who overdo them are possible blind to the fact that they may not be reaching actual essentials they believe they are getting.
Let's face it, since supplements aren't regulated, any seller can make claims of what's in their "proprietary blend" and not really need to back it up. With practically all of them being manufactured by 3rd parties, you can't be assured that what you're getting from them is actually true dose.
So are vitamin supplements wrong? I'd say no. Again, I take one TO SUPPLEMENT what I do now. But I rely more on what I consume daily.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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To understand how little present day science knows about how our bodies work, consider the following scenario of "idealized" future science:
As you chew/drink your food/liquid, nanorobots analyze the intake and immediately arrest and capture the toxins, heavy metals, harmful chemicals, harmful bacteria/viruses and whatever else they were programmed to do. They also measure the macro/micronutrients and keep a running tally.
There would be nanorobots all along the gastric system that would help synthesize all kinds of molecules that would be needed by the body at real time and make sure they would communicate with the nanorobots in the blood stream, cells etc. and coordinate the activities to keep the body at 100% efficiency something that evolution has enabled us to do in a very inefficient and "bandaid upon bandaid" manner that evolution is wont to do...
Coming back to the present, my skeptic spider sense starts screaming every time I read/hear claims that radically shift from the prevailing science. It may turn up to be correct (i.e. H Pylori as a cause of ulcers and the crazy aussie dr who drunk the virus vial to prove it) but most of the time, it's stamped out as untrue.
So, is 100x daily dose of Vitamin C really needed for periodontal issues? I have no idea, and I'm glad I won't have to experiment with it in order to find out...
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TheDevastator wrote: »
No if would more likely be doctors that want to push a drug with limited training in nutrition and vitamin therapy.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Those people are called "scientists"TheDevastator wrote: »
There are some people that can't believe that a vitamin will do that and it's a shame.christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
Some hospitals (the good ones) give intravenous vitamin C of high doses.
The book is science based and has a lot of references or else the FDA would be after him.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Better yet, base your decisions on science-based medicine rather than quackeryTheDevastator wrote: »You might want to check out Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul. It's a very good book.
Lol. That's why the Fda is constantly going after books on alternative medicine, homeopathy, and other pseudoscientific tripe
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FunkyTobias wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »
No if would more likely be doctors that want to push a drug with limited training in nutrition and vitamin therapy.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Those people are called "scientists"TheDevastator wrote: »
There are some people that can't believe that a vitamin will do that and it's a shame.christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
Some hospitals (the good ones) give intravenous vitamin C of high doses.
The book is science based and has a lot of references or else the FDA would be after him.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Better yet, base your decisions on science-based medicine rather than quackeryTheDevastator wrote: »You might want to check out Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul. It's a very good book.
Lol. That's why the Fda is constantly going after books on alternative medicine, homeopathy, and other pseudoscientific tripe
And its also why congress ripped into Dr. Oz with his huge push with supplements.
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5 pages in and I still can't validate whether Neugenix works. I is sad.0
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amusedmonkey wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »I don't think there's any harm in taking a mulit-vitamin along with eating well. I take one. I believe the problem is that people that don't eat well take vitamins believing they reach correct RDA with them when that may not be the entire truth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
@ninerbuff That's why every nutrition expert worth anything is telling people to go get your blood work done, when it comes to making sure your levels are correct. Including the OP videos. On top of that, it's also stressed to find the appropriate food to get your daily nutrition from. But where it lacks, you should supplement.
Or just change your diet to meet the deficiency. I've read this thread, lurked, and am for the most part, not understanding how a balanced diet does not meet the requirements for micronutrients. IDK seems like a lot of huff and puff over nothing.
No matter how balanced a diet is, if you are on a steep deficit like some women are (read eating 1200 calories) it's extremely unlikely to meet requirements.
Wait - now the scenario is 1200 calories/day and huge deficits?
That's...new.
I will happily concede that people eating very small amounts of food might want to consider popping a multivit or two.
Actually even more important than that, pop an EFA or two.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »I don't think there's any harm in taking a mulit-vitamin along with eating well. I take one. I believe the problem is that people that don't eat well take vitamins believing they reach correct RDA with them when that may not be the entire truth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
@ninerbuff That's why every nutrition expert worth anything is telling people to go get your blood work done, when it comes to making sure your levels are correct. Including the OP videos. On top of that, it's also stressed to find the appropriate food to get your daily nutrition from. But where it lacks, you should supplement.
Or just change your diet to meet the deficiency. I've read this thread, lurked, and am for the most part, not understanding how a balanced diet does not meet the requirements for micronutrients. IDK seems like a lot of huff and puff over nothing.
No matter how balanced a diet is, if you are on a steep deficit like some women are (read eating 1200 calories) it's extremely unlikely to meet requirements.
Wait - now the scenario is 1200 calories/day and huge deficits?
That's...new.
I will happily concede that people eating very small amounts of food might want to consider popping a multivit or two.
Actually even more important than that, pop an EFA or two.
That was just an extreme example. Even moderate deficits could result in not being able to fulfil the needed nutrients. Since this is a weight loss and fitness website I was just being relevant. A person who is on a diet and/or exercises could use a supplement, as it was in my case like I mentioned earlier. I don't believe I have met anyone yet who enjoys, loves and consumes nutrient rich foods as much as I do, yet I managed to slash down my iron and B12 by being in a deficit for more than a year (and those are only the ones I checked).
Generalizations are nice, they're cool to look at, and they make more sensational headlines that do well with the media and go viral... but in reality what applies to the general population may not apply to a special subgroup such as the case here.0 -
TheDevastator wrote: »
No if would more likely be doctors that want to push a drug with limited training in nutrition and vitamin therapy.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Those people are called "scientists"TheDevastator wrote: »
There are some people that can't believe that a vitamin will do that and it's a shame.christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
Some hospitals (the good ones) give intravenous vitamin C of high doses.
The book is science based and has a lot of references or else the FDA would be after him.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Better yet, base your decisions on science-based medicine rather than quackeryTheDevastator wrote: »You might want to check out Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul. It's a very good book.
Sorry, but the FDA doesn't work like that. Nutritional advice land is nearly regulation free.0 -
TheDevastator wrote: »
No if would more likely be doctors that want to push a drug with limited training in nutrition and vitamin therapy.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Those people are called "scientists"TheDevastator wrote: »
There are some people that can't believe that a vitamin will do that and it's a shame.christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
Some hospitals (the good ones) give intravenous vitamin C of high doses.
The book is science based and has a lot of references or else the FDA would be after him.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Better yet, base your decisions on science-based medicine rather than quackeryTheDevastator wrote: »You might want to check out Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul. It's a very good book.
Sorry, but the FDA doesn't work like that. Nutritional advice land is nearly regulation free.
No, the FDA will go after you if you say some vitamin cures some disease.0 -
TheDevastator wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »
No if would more likely be doctors that want to push a drug with limited training in nutrition and vitamin therapy.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Those people are called "scientists"TheDevastator wrote: »
There are some people that can't believe that a vitamin will do that and it's a shame.christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
Some hospitals (the good ones) give intravenous vitamin C of high doses.
The book is science based and has a lot of references or else the FDA would be after him.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Better yet, base your decisions on science-based medicine rather than quackeryTheDevastator wrote: »You might want to check out Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul. It's a very good book.
Sorry, but the FDA doesn't work like that. Nutritional advice land is nearly regulation free.
No, the FDA will go after you if you say some vitamin cures some disease.
Only if the claim is made by the seller of the product.
Book authors, on the other hand...
But feel free to continue making things up to support your woo
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I have a stupid question but I am going to ask anyway.
Does it matter if you just take a multi vitamin or should I get the pre packaged type of vitamins when I am trying to lose weight? I currently take just a multi vitamin, Vitamin D (per Doctor's orders) and FeverFew (to help with migraines). is this good enough?0 -
None of the above. It's summertime - go outside and get some sunlight.0
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I have a stupid question but I am going to ask anyway.
Does it matter if you just take a multi vitamin or should I get the pre packaged type of vitamins when I am trying to lose weight? I currently take just a multi vitamin, Vitamin D (per Doctor's orders) and FeverFew (to help with migraines). is this good enough?
It's good enough, just make sure to supplement, not substitute. What I mean by this is try to eat nutrient-rich foods and whatever is not enough will be picked up by your multi-vitamin.0
This discussion has been closed.
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