Fat and Jealious new year
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No, not mutually exclusive, but I do have free choice. I chose to start 2016 by posting something supportive to someone who was obviously hurting. Period. Happy new year to you, senecarr.
The bolded are not mutually exclusive options.Alluminati wrote: »All these people saying they understand why she reacted and hit him, to the ones not even ADDRESSING the fact that she physically assaulted someone....I'm curious:
Would this have been okay if a male did this to a female in the same scenario?
Alluminati - I'm not sure of your logic that not posting about her hitting this guy means supporting that action. To me, I didn't want to post something just repeating what everyone else had already said - what's the point of that if not adding something new to a thread? I chose to try to add something positive instead of joining the big pile-on on the OP as very often I see lots of negativity on MFP. The time stamp suggests she was still probably under the influence of alcohol at the time of posting - perhaps she has a different perspective today and is feeling sorry for her contributions to the exchange. Only she can say that. By the time I posted, numerous people had already told her she was wrong, she's lucky she wasn't arrested and she should seek counselling. The OP said herself that she was in tears about how hurt she was feeling. I opted for a little compassion and support instead of just telling her that she was in the wrong. That doesn't mean I think hitting someone is right, whether it is a male or female in the scenario.
The irony of negatively, passive-aggressively posting happy new years to someone because they don't agree with your positivity - how do I log that in MFP for my iron count?
Personally, I think the most supportive thing a person can do is help someone improve, and ignoring someone's physical assault doesn't help them improve themselves. It can even be tacit enabling.0 -
oyChihuahua wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I think this is quite culturally based. Where I live, if I said something as horrible as this to a Girl I would expect a slap (not that I would). Two wrongs don't make a right but the guy was a dickhead and his actions were most probably more painful to the OP than the OPs action to the bloke.
Eeeeerm, no..... Hitting people isn't something that's culturally acceptable in the uk, and whether she hurt him or not isn't really the point.
Y'all need more liberal gun laws out there! Sure keeps folks well mannered when everyone is packin'
Love it !0 -
oyChihuahua wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I think this is quite culturally based. Where I live, if I said something as horrible as this to a Girl I would expect a slap (not that I would). Two wrongs don't make a right but the guy was a dickhead and his actions were most probably more painful to the OP than the OPs action to the bloke.
Eeeeerm, no..... Hitting people isn't something that's culturally acceptable in the uk, and whether she hurt him or not isn't really the point.
Y'all need more liberal gun laws out there! Sure keeps folks well mannered when everyone is packin'
:laugh:0 -
You sound like a very jealous person. Sorry, but this stranger got this part right.0
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Alluminati wrote: »All these people saying they understand why she reacted and hit him, to the ones not even ADDRESSING the fact that she physically assaulted someone....I'm curious:
Would this have been okay if a male did this to a female in the same scenario?
I haven't read anyone say she did the right thing. But why is all the outrage reserved for the REACTION to the poor behavior of the guy? I see it over and over again. Women are expected to fold their hands in their lap and say please stop endlessly when men come on strongly, over the top and after having already been asked to stop. Just because the guy is not physically attacking there is no justification for reaction?
The problem is that this guy has never learned that there is an appropriate time to back off when a woman is not reciprocating interest--leaving the OP in a situation where she has to become direct and forceful.
Don't hit. Don't react. Leave the building. Go to a different bar. How about putting the onus on this man to conduct himself appropriately.
It seems to me you are adding information that wasn't given. The OP indicated it was unwanted attention, but did not indicate how her friend had managed the situation. If her friend directly said "I'm not interested, please leave me alone," but the guy kept coming back I can see warranting a stronger (non violent) reaction. If her friend said nothing but just rolled her eyes and giggled when the guy turned his back, that's completely different. People can't read minds. It is completely unacceptable to think someone will modify their behaviour without being told that they are being offensive.0 -
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The correct response would have been to smile and walk away. He got the response he wanted and you fell for it. Emotional control might be something you want to work on this year. And as mentioned, physically attacking someone shouldn't be the way to handle a problem.
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No, not mutually exclusive, but I do have free choice. I chose to start 2016 by posting something supportive to someone who was obviously hurting. Period. Happy new year to you, senecarr.
The bolded are not mutually exclusive options.Alluminati wrote: »All these people saying they understand why she reacted and hit him, to the ones not even ADDRESSING the fact that she physically assaulted someone....I'm curious:
Would this have been okay if a male did this to a female in the same scenario?
Alluminati - I'm not sure of your logic that not posting about her hitting this guy means supporting that action. To me, I didn't want to post something just repeating what everyone else had already said - what's the point of that if not adding something new to a thread? I chose to try to add something positive instead of joining the big pile-on on the OP as very often I see lots of negativity on MFP. The time stamp suggests she was still probably under the influence of alcohol at the time of posting - perhaps she has a different perspective today and is feeling sorry for her contributions to the exchange. Only she can say that. By the time I posted, numerous people had already told her she was wrong, she's lucky she wasn't arrested and she should seek counselling. The OP said herself that she was in tears about how hurt she was feeling. I opted for a little compassion and support instead of just telling her that she was in the wrong. That doesn't mean I think hitting someone is right, whether it is a male or female in the scenario.
The irony of negatively, passive-aggressively posting happy new years to someone because they don't agree with your positivity - how do I log that in MFP for my iron count?
Personally, I think the most supportive thing a person can do is help someone improve, and ignoring someone's physical assault doesn't help them improve themselves. It can even be tacit enabling.
Well, I disagree with your view that not posting about the hitting is enabling, and I was trying to explain where I'm coming from (meaning I don't think it was an acceptable action, but chose to post about other things.. that's all, no more), but I do wish you a happy new year for real - I'm feeling very positive about the year ahead and don't feel any negativity about having a difference of opinion! So no need to worry about logging that iron (although I do appreciate your MFP joke)! 0 -
As a kid I must have watched hundreds of movies where a man was rude and the leading lady slapped him. Of course times have changed and a woman who slaps a man can be arrested for assault nowadays. That's fair. But he was a jerk, they were all drunk, and my first reaction was "good for you". I've read all your posts so you don't need to repeat them. A wiser (and not illegal) course of action could, and should have, been taken.0
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Alluminati wrote: »All these people saying they understand why she reacted and hit him, to the ones not even ADDRESSING the fact that she physically assaulted someone....I'm curious:
Would this have been okay if a male did this to a female in the same scenario?
I haven't read anyone say she did the right thing. But why is all the outrage reserved for the REACTION to the poor behavior of the guy? I see it over and over again. Women are expected to fold their hands in their lap and say please stop endlessly when men come on strongly, over the top and after having already been asked to stop. Just because the guy is not physically attacking there is no justification for reaction?
The problem is that this guy has never learned that there is an appropriate time to back off when a woman is not reciprocating interest--leaving the OP in a situation where she has to become direct and forceful.
Don't hit. Don't react. Leave the building. Go to a different bar. How about putting the onus on this man to conduct himself appropriately.
yea women are told we should never show emotion, get angry or be "aggressive" and mean to men
that men are allowed to in vaid our space make us feel uncomfortable and they are even allowed to repeatedly annoy the *kitten* out of us and we are expected to just take it "like a lady" which means submissively and with out reaction or force
OP here is the thing men typically only have a couple go to's when it comes to a women making him feel upset or mad or uncomfortable it is to a. insult her appearance or b.threaten intimidate and assert dominance over her because how dare a women make me feel unwanted or stupid
standing up for your friend was the right thing to do his reaction is very typical and basic
you probably should not of hit him over his pathetic remarks though
do not let some loser at a bar make you feel any less beautiful , powerful, smart, feisty and amazing keep loving yourself because you know you are awesome & he does not know you at all he was just some man trying to get your friends number and he is irrelevant
next time this kind of thing happens let it roll off your back and use your feisty attitude to hit him right where it hurts ..with your words
actually i would punch someone in the face if they touched me or my friend with out consent though...soo..theres that but you know what i mean
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salembambi wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »All these people saying they understand why she reacted and hit him, to the ones not even ADDRESSING the fact that she physically assaulted someone....I'm curious:
Would this have been okay if a male did this to a female in the same scenario?
I haven't read anyone say she did the right thing. But why is all the outrage reserved for the REACTION to the poor behavior of the guy? I see it over and over again. Women are expected to fold their hands in their lap and say please stop endlessly when men come on strongly, over the top and after having already been asked to stop. Just because the guy is not physically attacking there is no justification for reaction?
The problem is that this guy has never learned that there is an appropriate time to back off when a woman is not reciprocating interest--leaving the OP in a situation where she has to become direct and forceful.
Don't hit. Don't react. Leave the building. Go to a different bar. How about putting the onus on this man to conduct himself appropriately.
yea women are told we should never show emotion, get angry or be "aggressive" and mean to men
that men are allowed to in vaid our space make us feel uncomfortable and they are even allowed to repeatedly annoy the *kitten* out of us and we are expected to just take it "like a lady" which means submissively and with out reaction or force
OP here is the thing men typically only have a couple go to's when it comes to a women making him feel upset or mad or uncomfortable it is to a. insult her appearance or b.threaten intimidate and assert dominance over her because how dare a women make me feel unwanted or stupid
standing up for your friend was the right thing to do his reaction is very typical and basic
you probably should not of hit him over his pathetic remarks though
do not let some loser at a bar make you feel any less beautiful , powerful, smart, feisty and amazing keep loving yourself because you know you are awesome & he does not know you at all he was just some man trying to get your friends number and he is irrelevant
next time this kind of thing happens let it roll off your back and use your feisty attitude to hit him right where it hurts ..with your words actually i would punch someone in the face if they touched me or my friend with out consent though...soo..theres that but you know what i mean
No one told her not to be mean. But people did tell her it was a mistake to raise her hand to anyone. That's breaking a law. I agree that calling someone fat or ugly or whatever (appearance) is always the easiest way for anyone to make another person feel bad. You say you would punch someone who touched you or your friend without consent. Well, that's exactly what the OP did to another person, so I think she's lucky, considering.0 -
I've been reluctant to post...but here it goes. I absolutely, 110% agree that assault is wrong and that hitting him was wrong and immature. However, I also believe that name-calling and insulting someone is wrong and immature. Name-calling and hitting are NEVER ok. It sounds like a situation fueled by alcohol and poor self-esteem. I believe both egos were bruised that night, but neither needed to react the way they did. She may, in that drunken moment, believed she was defending herself, but could've gone another way about it. I'm in no way excusing her behaviour, just saying that the guy acted immaturely as well.0
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Alluminati wrote: »salembambi wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »All these people saying they understand why she reacted and hit him, to the ones not even ADDRESSING the fact that she physically assaulted someone....I'm curious:
Would this have been okay if a male did this to a female in the same scenario?
I haven't read anyone say she did the right thing. But why is all the outrage reserved for the REACTION to the poor behavior of the guy? I see it over and over again. Women are expected to fold their hands in their lap and say please stop endlessly when men come on strongly, over the top and after having already been asked to stop. Just because the guy is not physically attacking there is no justification for reaction?
The problem is that this guy has never learned that there is an appropriate time to back off when a woman is not reciprocating interest--leaving the OP in a situation where she has to become direct and forceful.
Don't hit. Don't react. Leave the building. Go to a different bar. How about putting the onus on this man to conduct himself appropriately.
yea women are told we should never show emotion, get angry or be "aggressive" and mean to men
that men are allowed to in vaid our space make us feel uncomfortable and they are even allowed to repeatedly annoy the *kitten* out of us and we are expected to just take it "like a lady" which means submissively and with out reaction or force
OP here is the thing men typically only have a couple go to's when it comes to a women making him feel upset or mad or uncomfortable it is to a. insult her appearance or b.threaten intimidate and assert dominance over her because how dare a women make me feel unwanted or stupid
standing up for your friend was the right thing to do his reaction is very typical and basic
you probably should not of hit him over his pathetic remarks though
do not let some loser at a bar make you feel any less beautiful , powerful, smart, feisty and amazing keep loving yourself because you know you are awesome & he does not know you at all he was just some man trying to get your friends number and he is irrelevant
next time this kind of thing happens let it roll off your back and use your feisty attitude to hit him right where it hurts ..with your words actually i would punch someone in the face if they touched me or my friend with out consent though...soo..theres that but you know what i mean
No one told her not to be mean. But people did tell her it was a mistake to raise her hand to anyone. That's breaking a law. I agree that calling someone fat or ugly or whatever (appearance) is always the easiest way for anyone to make another person feel bad. You say you would punch someone who touched you or your friend without consent. Well, that's exactly what the OP did to another person, so I think she's lucky, considering.
Yep that's exactly what it says happened. She put her hands on someone because they used words . now if we use the theory stated by other posters " I would punch someone if they put their hands on me " then that would mean it would've been okay for this man to punch her because she struck him. If that where the case, then everyone would be saying " that poor girl got punched by a man " not " I will punch someone who puts their hands on me "
The double standard is clear here.
It is never okay to use violence as a result of words . he called her fat and jealous. She used violence. She also was the one who shooed him away and said she's not interested. Its likely he wouldn't have even known the op existed if she hadn't felt the need to shoo him away.
So its supposed to be okay for her to be rude but not okay for him to be rude ? There are plenty of ways to handle a friend being hit on , none of which involve shooing people or striking people.0 -
Eh, I don't play the Morality Police on this forum.
So I'm going to tell you what I wish I'd told my even younger than you self: If you live your life, fat or thin, always wondering what other people think of you - especially men - you will end up living a very unhappy life. Your sense of self worth/value has to come from no one but yourself. Look anywhere else for it and you will never find it. Until you not only believe that but really, truthfully, live it you are in for a bumpy ride. Buckle up.
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+1. Relying on others opinions of physical appearance, etc. is subjective from person to person and may end up confusing. Just be the best you can be with the genetics you've been given.grinning_chick wrote: »Eh, I don't play the Morality Police on this forum.
So I'm going to tell you what I wish I'd told my even younger than you self: If you live your life, fat or thin, always wondering what other people think of you - especially men - you will end up living a very unhappy life. Your sense of self worth/value has to come from no one but yourself. Look anywhere else for it and you will never find it. Until you not only believe that but really, truthfully, live it you are in for a bumpy ride. Buckle up.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Two wrongs don't make a right but the guy was a dickhead and his actions were most probably more painful to the OP than the OPs action to the bloke.
You couldn't possibly know that. From the limited info we were given she was clearly the bigger dickhead in the situation. Also, men do often acquire those things called feelings too. Maybe that guy just lost a ton of weight or overcame some barrier to finding his own comfortableness in approaching a women in a social setting. Maybe, maybe not. We don't know his mind. In any case, here comes this bruiser callously shoo-ing him away with no consideration that he's even a human with his own insecurities, hopes, dreams. I think its pretty clear that he immaturely reacted to her rudeness with rudeness. Do I applaud that? Hell no! But can we deduct that his rudeness was more painful for her than her rudeness was to him? Hell no.
Do we even need to get into the assault portion of this lovely evening? A lot of people are already carrying heavy burdens of past physical abuse, and yes, some of us are men. We aren't immune to trauma. Some things aren't so easy to unload with the limited tools of bravado and machismo. I've been subjected to far more violence from the women in my life than the men in my life and it was never cute, always damaging to my health in some way or another, never benign just because they were maybe 20-30 lbs lighter, and never deserved. Assault is assault. Violence is violence. It's never cool, unless you're in a ring, a cage, or on a field where everyone is on the same page and compensated fairly for their risk exposure. Asides out of the way, her violence could have sent this guy spiraling back down into some dark places. How could we possibly know how much damage was really done?
Also, happy new year!
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he should have filed assault charges on you.
not cool, missy. not cool at ALL and is far uglier than any weight.
weight can be lost being an *kitten* is harder to fix.
#sorrynotsorry no compassion from me on this one.0 -
Hopefully by this time next year you'll have lost all the weight, and no-one will ever be able to call you fat again!! Your weight loss and self worth is in your hands and control, no one elses...0
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TavistockToad wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »All these people saying they understand why she reacted and hit him, to the ones not even ADDRESSING the fact that she physically assaulted someone....I'm curious:
Would this have been okay if a male did this to a female in the same scenario?
I haven't read anyone say she did the right thing. But why is all the outrage reserved for the REACTION to the poor behavior of the guy? I see it over and over again. Women are expected to fold their hands in their lap and say please stop endlessly when men come on strongly, over the top and after having already been asked to stop. Just because the guy is not physically attacking there is no justification for reaction?
The problem is that this guy has never learned that there is an appropriate time to back off when a woman is not reciprocating interest--leaving the OP in a situation where she has to become direct and forceful.
Don't hit. Don't react. Leave the building. Go to a different bar. How about putting the onus on this man to conduct himself appropriately.
The only persons behaviour that we can control is our own....
Yes the guy should have got the hint, but we don't know what the friend had said to the guy in the first place. If she didn't like his advances she could have done something other than let her friend physically assault him.
Agreed--we can only control our own reactions.
But, let's not give this guy a pass. I do have expectations for the behavior of people around me--having those expectations is a pillar of healthy self respect. It's okay to be outraged at crappy behavior. Not okay to hit--but we should acknowledge that it wasn't unprovoked.
I think if we get in the habit of identifying and calling out poor behavior like this man's, we get one step closer to making men like him think twice about how they behave. Just continually repeating "we can't control his behavior" isn't helpful. We can't control it, but we can call it what it is--jacka## behavior.
But wasn't he just calling out her bad behaviour? He did it in an inappropriate way, but her response was more inappropriate.
We know her friend introduced them and she ignored him. I'd find that incredibly rude. It's unclear whether her friend has even told this guy she's not interested and the OP certainly hasn't discussed it with her before telling the guy to buzz off. He calls out her bad behaviour with an insult (which is wrong and I don't condone it.) She responds by slapping him.
I don't think her position is all that defendable.
I am the gbf to a few women and I watch out for them. But I would ask them or at least eye signal if they need help before wading in. The OP doesn't seem to have done this. If I was her friend I'd be pretty pissed off at the OP.0
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