helping to motivate a spouse w/o being an a-hole
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I am sitting here and smiling as I read about your past 12 hours. You have a genuine love and care and respect for your wife. While it will be hard work for both of you to continue to work out (and work on!) the variety of issues you both have, it seems like you're both at least in the same book and getting on the same page. Kudos and warmth to both of you
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WeekendWarriorTX wrote: »my wife has been telling me for years that all she needs from me is encouragement, not judgement or me pushing her to exercise or eat better. it perplexed me, because all i could think about was, "you haven't done anything to deserve encouragement". i kept thinking that once she crossed that threshold and started exercising and eating better, i'd shower her with praise, but she had to do her part to earn it. i knew deep down that as my wife she shouldn't have to earn praise and encouragement, but it was still confusing to me. it wasn't until i heard the same from so many other people outside the situation that it clicked, that backing off and just creating an environment where she feels could produce the results we both want. last night i apologized for being so pushy, explained that deep down i just wanted her to be happy, and that i believed so much that getting healthier would make her happier and that caused me to go overboard with the encouragement. i let her know that i understood that's not how i'm supposed to make her happy, and that i would be working on it, and asked in advance to forgive me if my body language gave away my frustrations with any of her choices. she admitted that she hadn't been giving WW much effort, and that she wanted to lose weight, but when i got "controlling" her brain would tell her to fight and take back control, basically thinking "i'll show you, i just won't do anything". we had a good evening together, and this morning was the first one in awhile that didn't have an air of tension between us. She didn't eat as healthy as she could have last night, and she didn't get up early with me to exercise, but it actually wasn't that hard for me to just let it slide. Hopefully i can keep it up. We still have a lot to work on and will need help, but the foundation is there. Thanks again to everyone who gave advice and shared similar experiences.
I love it. Well done, sir.0 -
Awww.... You're such a good husband! I wish you and your wife many happy years!0
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MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »Show her this dialog because it's raw truth, that she has to face & deal with. She's an adult & must be able to act like it, otherwise your relationship is illegal; if she has the mentality of a child. Childish excuses, is a clear indication; that she isn't a responsible adult. Being in a relationship means, that life/her life; isn't all about her. If she desires to share her life, with someone else; she must make reasonable compromises or choose, to be alone or just be with her food & excuses. Being in a relationship, is a privilege; not a right. Therefore she must earn it!
Uhm... I certainly disagree with everything you've stated here. She has to lose weight to earn her relationship?? Gah I almost can't even.0 -
WeekendWarriorTX wrote: »my wife has been telling me for years that all she needs from me is encouragement, not judgement or me pushing her to exercise or eat better. it perplexed me, because all i could think about was, "you haven't done anything to deserve encouragement". i kept thinking that once she crossed that threshold and started exercising and eating better, i'd shower her with praise, but she had to do her part to earn it. i knew deep down that as my wife she shouldn't have to earn praise and encouragement, but it was still confusing to me. it wasn't until i heard the same from so many other people outside the situation that it clicked, that backing off and just creating an environment where she feels could produce the results we both want. last night i apologized for being so pushy, explained that deep down i just wanted her to be happy, and that i believed so much that getting healthier would make her happier and that caused me to go overboard with the encouragement. i let her know that i understood that's not how i'm supposed to make her happy, and that i would be working on it, and asked in advance to forgive me if my body language gave away my frustrations with any of her choices. she admitted that she hadn't been giving WW much effort, and that she wanted to lose weight, but when i got "controlling" her brain would tell her to fight and take back control, basically thinking "i'll show you, i just won't do anything". we had a good evening together, and this morning was the first one in awhile that didn't have an air of tension between us. She didn't eat as healthy as she could have last night, and she didn't get up early with me to exercise, but it actually wasn't that hard for me to just let it slide. Hopefully i can keep it up. We still have a lot to work on and will need help, but the foundation is there. Thanks again to everyone who gave advice and shared similar experiences.
This is great to hear, OP. Sounds like you've both had some promising insights in to what's going on in yourselves and between you.
Just chiming in another voice of support for "absolutely take her up on her offer to join her for a visit to her psych provider."
The symptoms you've described- weight gain, low energy, decreased libido, severe anxiety, loss
of interest in activities, low self-esteem- all point to major chronic depression BUT, paradoxically, they can *also* be side effects of common psych meds. So it could well be that she's been under reporting the severity of her symptoms (whether out of embarrassment or simply because she doesn't have good insight in to how much her condition has deteriorated- depression often robs us of a clear perspective on ourselves). A review of her meds and a new treatment approach may be in order, if her provider can hear from a third party how things really are. You'll also be able to find out whether she's just seeing a doc for a quick script refill every few months, or actually getting the intensive talk or Cognitive-behavioral therapy she may need.
Make sure to practice your "I statements" before you go, though- "I've noticed we have sex only once every few weeks lately, rather than the twice a week we used to, and I miss that." "I feel worried and frustrated when she says she's unhappy with herself and sets goals but doesn't follow through." "I miss doing activities outside the house together like we used to."
Also, marriage counseling sounds like a good idea, but so does individual counseling for you. Depression is a major medical condition, and it can take its toll on family members of the affected as well. Your wife may or may not see improvement or resolution to her mental health, and she may or may not ever improve her lifestyle and lose weight. Even with the insights you reported above and with marriage counseling, you're likely to continue to experience at least occasional stress and frustration about this, and some individual sessions can give you the tools you need to manage that, see that this is *not* about her not loving you, and potentially preserve your own health and happiness, regardless of what she's able to do. You should both qualify for some free sessions through Military Onesource, and they can also help you with referrals if you need to see someone longer than that.
Good luck. Being a military family, whether you're active duty or not, carries additional stress, and it's wise that you're addressing these frustrations now and before children.
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I'm only on page 4 of the comments but from what you have shared, OP, this has much more to do with her mental health than anything else. Her meds are obviously not working, and that's okay - with pyscho active drugs it often takes a few tries to get it right. I stand by my first suggestion - build her up where she is. With love and time she can pull out of this. Stop worrying about her weight. Stop getting frustrated by her choices. She's sick. BUILD HER UP MAN. You need more affection? Is she denying it when you initiate it? Take her phone out of her hands and hold her. It'll be good for both of you.0
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This question is addressed in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqhCsgYkLJE
The solution is remarkably simple.
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WeekendWarriorTX wrote: »my wife was heavy when we married 3 years ago, so I know it is somewhat unfair for me to "expect" her to lose weight, but she has been saying for longer than our marriage that she wants to lose weight. i joined the national guard before we married, and she said that while i was in basic training (fall of 2012) that she would lose weight while i was gone knowing that i would lose a bunch. She didn't lose weight and i came back weighing less than her (i'm 6'4", she's 5'7"). then in the spring of 2013 she said she wanted to lose weight for our wedding, she didn't. then she joined weight watchers at work, with minimal results over the past 2 years. Last year i went on a deployment and was gone for a total of 12 months including training, and she said she was going to lose weight while i was gone. the 5-10 pounds she lost during that time she gained back in the month after my return.
her weight has severe self esteem ramifications, and that in turn is very detrimental to our marriage. i am a very exercise oriented person, and I have successfully lost a lot of weight in the past, and moderate amounts when i've let myself go for a few months. I know how to lose weight, but any advice i give is met with hostility and she thinks i'm being judgmental and condescending. I know after over 3 years of hearing about plans to lose weight with no results, i've lost a lot of patience and probably could be "nicer", but her way and her time are simply not getting it done. she does suffer from anxiety which has an impact on her motivation to work out. it has gotten to where every little poor choice she makes, whether it being too tired to exercise, or lolly gagging too much in the mornings to pack her own lunch forcing her to have to go out to eat puts me in a bad mood and causes fights. i feel like every decision she makes that is detrimental to her losing weight is an act of not caring about herself or our marriage.
i'm sure i'm not the only one who has dealt with something like this. how do i help motivate her without turning into a drill sgt? i invite her to the fitness center to run with me, but she will say she didn't sleep well or is too tired to go, or she will say she will stay home and do her PiYo workout, but if she doesn't stop it early b/c "she was coughing too much" she does it pretty half assly, pardon the language.
WeekendWarriorTX, first let me say thank you for your concern for your wife. I am the wife you speak of, and my husband is you (partially LOL). We have been married 10+ years and dating 2 years before that. I appreciate you trying to be tactful. my husband has the same concerns and, like you, doesn't know how to express his concern to me. He told me very recently (last week) that his hope for me is to "take care of myself" so that I am healthy and happy. He doesn't really care that i lose weight, although he KNOWS that would help me be happier and healthier. So, i am making the effort to stick with one plan (calories in VS calories out basically). He is very supportive in suggesting us going for walks and food shopping together, etc. I would tell your wife, if i was her husband, that I am more than happy to support her efforts, but if it's all talk, i don't want to hear it anymore.
That's basically what my husband told me. I didn't take it as a drill sargent or him being mean.0 -
I would just advise you to continue to extend your invitations to come along to the gym etc but make no other comment about anything she eats/doesn't eat/any exercise she does/doesn't do. If she moans about her weight simply say 'if you're unhappy, I'm ready to support you on your weight loss journey whenever you're ready, just let me know' and move on before you get annoyed with her or drawn into a point-making contest.
This. And no comments/opinions/views. She can hear/feel your judgement loud and clear with out you uttering a word.
Hope you & her choose marriage counseling. If one is unwilling to go, hope the other still does.
Best wishes.
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_dracarys_ wrote: »WeekendWarriorTX wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »Sorry, she is not being an a-hole. She has to want it for it to happen.
You said she was overweight when you married. What changed, she is the same person you married Why do you want to change her? She has to want it bad enough to make it so. It is not your decision.
All you can (and should) do is support her and love her. She is an adult, it is her decision. When she wants to change, she will.
we were friends(acquaintances) years before we started dating, and she was very skinny back then. we didn't see each other for awhile and started talking online, and decided to meet up and give dating a try. it was during this time she had gained weight. it wasn't a huge issue, we were still going out, having fun, having great sex, etc. if she had low self esteem then, she didn't act like it. I don't know remember when the turning point was, but it was years ago, and now i have to drag her out of the house to do anything, she just wants to veg on the couch in all her free time, her libido has gone down with her self esteem. back when we were engaged and I was getting ready to leave for boot camp is the first time i can remember her really expressing a desire to lose weight, and it didn't come from me.
I'm no doctor, but this sounds like she has a serious depression going on.
Having read zero threads between this post and now (forgive me), all I can say is ^^THIS.^^ My God, this. Clinical depression affects you physically, not just mentally. I've been there. Please get her to go to her doctor. If depression is the root of the problem, nothing else will change, I promise you, until she is treated for it. My best to the both of you.0 -
WeekendWarriorTX wrote: »we do low calorie dinners most of the time. we get a lot of recipes off skinnytaste and other healthy type websites. I can't keep her from grabbing a package of peanut butter crackers minutes before i start preparing dinner, or keep her from getting up out of bed at 2200 to eat cereal. she's convinced herself that since cereal is healthy, she can eat it as a late night snack with no consequences. when i try to explain that extra daily calories are extra calories regardless of whether they come from heavy food, she just says she knows that. even though she goes to WW meetings every week, i don't think she tracks her points on a regular basis.
I'm hearing more of a condescending tone, than a supporting tone.
guess it comes from the frustration. and probably more of a military lifestyle.
there's a saying....
You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
and...
being right isn't always the most productive way .0 -
Glad you cleared the air with your wife! At the end of the day, it really is something she has to do for herself. Kudos to you for working so very hard to be a loving husband.
As an aside - lavish praise is awesome. I've been a so-so cook for years. I enjoy cooking for company and am pretty decent but for years and years I have not cared for cooking for the family. DH can be VERY vocal when I burn stuff or dinner turns out bad (he's a loving man, but with a very idealized picture of a wife in his head lol). For a while I worked late and he cooked dinner a lot (I LOVED it - and would work late every chance I could). He's a pretty natural cook so could never understand why I could mess up so easily. A few months ago, he was swamped at work so I told him i would take over the cooking for a bit. I was quite interested and tried out a few things (rather tentatively lol). Out of the blue, he started lavishly praising everything and not throwing a fit if something didn't work out. (and yes, I could easily tell that he was laying it on a bit thick - but that was fine by me!) I started experimenting more and now we all love what comes out of my kitchen and I'm excited to cook every day. Not all my dishes turn out, but he no longer grumbles when that happens. It did wonders for my confidence and cooking for my family is now fun, not a chore.0 -
mrsclaizans wrote: »Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.
Make her feel great, start small, compliments (not just about her appearance), affection, attention, be grateful for her - let her know that you are. It may take a while.....a long while. But persevere, once her mind starts to change then her body will too. Then get exercising in the bedroom......just love her and accept her.
Its ALL in the mind.
.
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This question is addressed in this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqhCsgYkLJE
The solution is remarkably simple.
This was actually really good (despite the fact that he is a CrossFitter - just kidding). And entertaining. "They have rubber bands and sh-!"
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I have friends where the wife suffers from profound depression. Hubby stuck it out, though it took over a year for her to find some relief. She admits she made it very hard for him to want to stay. Long, fruitful marriage, three children, two married, grandchild, and all that.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=XiCrniLQGYc0 -
WeekendWarriorTX wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »WeekendWarriorTX wrote: »yes, she suffers from depression, she will admit that. but i don't know what from, and she doesn't do anything about it. like i said earlier, she tells her shrink everything is fine, gets her meds, and coasts through. a shrink she used to go to told her that exercising would help with depression and anxiety, but she's too depressed and anxious to work out. it is a cycle that i feel will only be broken through her finally deciding to. after three years of not reaching that decision, i don't know what is going to light a fire under her *kitten*. i fear she doesn't have it inside her, and I don't know how to help. the weight loss is the only thing i understand how to do, which is why i tend to focus on that, b/c it is a problem that i've conquered. hell, i even struggled with depression for several months that took a serious toll on me, and it was exercise that pulled me out of it. i don't want y'all to think that my only concern is having a skinny wife. i want the fun girl who liked doing things back. she's told me that her weight has a huge influence on her self esteem, and has admitted that losing weight will help a lot with her other problems, i just wanted advice to help kick start it since it seems to me she might not have it in her. but i will take all your advice to heart, back off and support her (which i do try to do, but i know that even when i don't comment on her decisions, my body language gives my frustration away). i will make a more concerted effort, we will go to counseling, and i will do what i need to do and try not to worry so much about what she is doing (or not doing)
Is she putting forth any effort in ANY aspect of her life and your marriage? Any at all?
no, and that's why i'm so frustrated. she wants a better job, and has been encouraged at work to take a couple drafting courses, but she keeps making excuses to put that off. i tell her that i need more affection (not just sex), and it lasts a day or two, then dwindles back down to her spending our time together on our phone.
This and some of your later posts are what cause me more concern than the health/working out stuff.
I have a family member that this sounds remarkably similar to. If you guys didn't want kids, I'd say wait it out and see how it goes. But since you're planning to bring kids into this relationship, here's some stuff you should be ready for.
-She will quit her job after baby #1 and NEVER go back to work
-She will complain about how isolated she is and wish she had something to do but will not go get a job or volunteer or anything
-She'll complain about how hard the kid is and how tired she is all the time
-You will end up taking on 100% of household non-childcare and probably 80% of childcare anytime you are around
-There will never be enough breaks/time-off/help for her with the kid
-She will be the martyr/have back pain even though you are changing every diaper when you are home
-She honestly won't appreciate the majority of time spent with the kid, only moments, otherwise she'll be caught up in not feeling overwhelmed, trying to rest, trying to take time for herself because family/therapists are telling her to make sure to take time for herself
-You will have to take the kid everywhere the kid needs to go because her anxiety is not going to get any better
I am not saying ALL of this is inevitable. I am just saying, if you aren't willing to be taking on all of the non-kid chores and 80% of the kid-watching chores (or possibly 100%) when you are around, don't have a kid until all this is sorted out. If she gets her meds adjusted (she should get tested for thyroid, but even if she gets treated for it it's not a guarantee to fix the problem) or some other outside factor influences her she might get better, but you have very little influence over that unfortunately. I am not saying she is a clone of my family member but- I think a lot of people think a kid will wake a person up out of their funk and force them to put in more effort and become a better person. But I have seen too many cases where that does NOT happen. If you want a kid with her enough to primary parent while also bending for all her eccentricities, then go ahead. A divorce when kids are around is going to be so much harder.0 -
Some great responses here. I like the last idea - tell her she's lovely and all I he reasons you married her. Her self esteem is something you can help with.
Also, I want to throw a brick at my husband when he tries to encourage me to exercise. It's his default method of trying to help and it just doesn't. I want to build up walking regularly, he wants to go on a big hike that is too much for me. My hunch is that you see exercise as the answer, but the first problem is food. Can you be more involved in the cooking or choosing what's in?
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I've tried to send you personal message but keeps coming up server error I have had those same issues that your wife has and I am going to suggest a product I use and it has totally changed my life and out look it is called THRIVE go to Level Thrive website and see how it works it takes 30 minutes in the morning and your done for the day no remembering 30 minutes before a meal and is full of vitamins and the shake mix is actually really good. This product has given me mental clarity I have never had before and energy to go all day, I sleep like a baby and any craving for sweets or coffee gone I actually prefer water to anything I have not had a soda or coffee for months. Add me as a friend if you want we can chat more about it..I am not a promoter of this product just a dedicated customer I am in Canada and willing to pay the exchange rate for this product that is how much I believe in it. It is something you can use also since your very active yourself a lot of trainers use it. Good Luck!!-6
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OP because I just read the parts about her mental illness and this is something I have lived with in my family:
First, sorry if this sounds harsh, but really, unless there are changes regarding her mental health, double or triple up on birth control. She cannot cope with this if things are as you describe, until the issue is resolved.
Second, there are IMHO several types of mentally ill patients (completely personal and non-professional opinion):
-Ones who acknowledge the problem, fight to get their life back to normal, have better and worse periods, but in general, they try. If this is the case with her, you need to more actively get involved, talk to drs, discuss family therapy, get a second opinion, discuss medication plans and alternative meds, get into support groups for relatives and help her fight. And make sure she has the right diagnosis.
-The ones who do not acknowledge a problem exists at all. If you suspect this is the case, and after a reasonable effort spent on trying to help her face reality, you cut your losses and move on. You cannot help someone who does not acknowledge an illness exists. You can only ruin your life trying.
- And then, the ones who simply will not respond to treatment. They want to, take their meds, keep up with their appointments, but their situation is one that without new meds or treatments appearing, simply cannot improve. If this is the case, family will be a permanent caregiver. Life will not be normal. Despite the best intentions from everyone involved. If this what you suspect you are facing, again, educate yourself. Figure out what you should expect. Activities and lifestyle choices that might be normally expected might never happen for your family. You need to know what to expect, what can change, what can not, what are the probable scenarios, and if and how you can face this.
In any case, mental illness is not a minor detail. It is not something that can be ignored. It defines a person to some degree, and it changes a family dynamics, for better or worse. You do not want to deal with and would rather ignoreit and hope it fixes itself. You try tosee the other problems as irrelevant to this. It is how everyone reacts first. But it does not work like this.
This. If you can resolve the mental health piece, everything else will fall into place. Your wife needs a mental health team, not just a psychiatrist. She also needs a therapist whom she can talk to and develop an action plan for getting healthy. Psychiatrist primarily just prescribe medication, they do not granularity address the issues themselves. Ideally the therapist and psychiatrist will work together to get your wife healthy. I would also recommend that in addition to your wife seeing the therapist, that you also have sessions with the three of you. It will give you the opportunity to see where your wife is at, help you better understand the issues, and you will be aware of the treatment plan and be able to ask questions. It will also give you two a neutral party to help facilitate any issues you may have. This is all contingent upon your wife acknowledging there is an issue, and being open and honest with the therapist. This will take time, and changes will not happen over night, and there will be good days and bad days. If there are medication changes, expect things to get a little worse before they get better because stopping and starting psych meds are difficult and it takes time for the body to adjust.
Also, I commend you for being open minded enough to recognize the issues you are experiencing with your marriage are out of your scope, and for seeking input from a public forum. Having outside feedback, and a variety of it from different perspectives is really useful for problem solving. I think you have been very sincere and respectful to both her and your situation. Thought I would mention that since it seems some people have been negative that you made this thread.
Also, please do not have children right now. They will just exacerbated the issue, and will probably drive you wife into deeper depression, and a new level of being overwhelmed. It will also make her weight situation worse, and you will be tied to her via kids (mentioning this in case the marriage fails).
Good luck to you!
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WeekendWarriorTX wrote: »my wife was heavy when we married 3 years ago, so I know it is somewhat unfair for me to "expect" her to lose weight, but she has been saying for longer than our marriage that she wants to lose weight. i joined the national guard before we married, and she said that while i was in basic training (fall of 2012) that she would lose weight while i was gone knowing that i would lose a bunch. She didn't lose weight and i came back weighing less than her (i'm 6'4", she's 5'7"). then in the spring of 2013 she said she wanted to lose weight for our wedding, she didn't. then she joined weight watchers at work, with minimal results over the past 2 years. Last year i went on a deployment and was gone for a total of 12 months including training, and she said she was going to lose weight while i was gone. the 5-10 pounds she lost during that time she gained back in the month after my return.
her weight has severe self esteem ramifications, and that in turn is very detrimental to our marriage. i am a very exercise oriented person, and I have successfully lost a lot of weight in the past, and moderate amounts when i've let myself go for a few months. I know how to lose weight, but any advice i give is met with hostility and she thinks i'm being judgmental and condescending. I know after over 3 years of hearing about plans to lose weight with no results, i've lost a lot of patience and probably could be "nicer", but her way and her time are simply not getting it done. she does suffer from anxiety which has an impact on her motivation to work out. it has gotten to where every little poor choice she makes, whether it being too tired to exercise, or lolly gagging too much in the mornings to pack her own lunch forcing her to have to go out to eat puts me in a bad mood and causes fights. i feel like every decision she makes that is detrimental to her losing weight is an act of not caring about herself or our marriage.
i'm sure i'm not the only one who has dealt with something like this. how do i help motivate her without turning into a drill sgt? i invite her to the fitness center to run with me, but she will say she didn't sleep well or is too tired to go, or she will say she will stay home and do her PiYo workout, but if she doesn't stop it early b/c "she was coughing too much" she does it pretty half assly, pardon the language.
I can relate to your wife, unfortunately. The anxiety part caught my eye. Anxiety is exhausting because your mind does not shut up.
The thought of getting up to go to the gym is not just throwing on clothes and going out the door. This becomes a mental battle of "what do I do when I get there? What if people judge me? What if my clothes don't fit or I look too fat? What if I break the treadmill? What if...I faint, I'm too tired, I throw up, I didn't eat the right lunch, I'm the only girl there, I'm the oldest one there, I'm the fattest one there, I have to watch my husband stare at other women etc.." That's the condensed version, just imagine your mind bombarding you with awful thoughts that you just can't control. Those mind battles probably happened more when you were deployed, and they can be worse when by yourself. This can also lead to comfort eating, or convenience eating (not cooking or packing lunch). Also, anxiety medication can cause your appetite to increase or they can even cause you to retain weight more easily. Throw women's hormones in the mix and forget it. Just hand over a chocolate bar and hide. (I'm only sort of kidding)
What changed for me: I had to convince myself that it was narcissistic for others to pay enough attention to judge me. Once I got to that point, I had no problem going to the gym. I even enjoyed it. Did I lose weight? No. Did I give up for a bit, absolutely - I'm starting all over again.
Now, what can you do?
Don't act ashamed of her in public. Put your arm around her, act like you know her, don't look at your friends' better looking wives and get bitter about her appearance (I know, it's a subconscious thing most men aren't aware that they do it).
Take her out:
Don't tell her she's going for exercise. Tell her you're going on an outing, like hiking somewhere secluded and pretty or paddling on a quiet lake. Somewhere where she doesn't have to worry about other people being around.
I know she's a grown woman, but pack her lunch for her once in a while. Not to be healthy of course, but to "save money". Plus it's just kind of sweet.
Oh, and buy her cute clothes for whatever size she is currently at. It's a sign of acceptance.0
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