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Fat Acceptance Movement
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coreyreichle wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »I take the stance that everyone benefits from healthier choices. I won't assume that an overweight person has failed in this department. Here is an example of a positive model:
http://fatgirlrunning-fatrunner.blogspot.ca/?m=1
Heck, we just lost Prince at fifty-seven. We won't know for a few weeks what felled him but my bet is heart attack.
She's not a particularly good example. She's 40 years old, and slower on her ultras than 50 and 80 year olds. She runs about 1/4 of the miles I do per week. Her average pace is my walking pace, on forest terrain, with a 40lb load.
She claims to run, but her pace says she walks.
What is your point, you can beat a 40 year old fat lady that is unhealthy by your definition?
Apparently, a 50 or 80 year old can...
If an 80 year old is faster than you, and you're 40, I do not think you can claim the mantle of "Example of Health".
Again, what is your point. There are 50 and 80 year olds that can beat you too.
No, not many 50 or 80 year olds are faster than me...
Let's put this in perspective:
* She's been "running" for years, and routinely places dead last in any race she enters. I've been running for just over a year, and place just under regional grading.
* She's been running for years, and is in the bottom of her age grade. Most people running for over a year start placing around 50% of their age grade.
* She's been running for years, yet her pace still averages out 13-16 min/miles. Most people running for years do far better.
None of this is pulled from the air. Check out her "runs" on Strava, and her race results on Athlinks. She's far from anything to be considered an "example". She's one step above Ragen Chastain, and that's just because she shows up and finishes races, whereas Chastain DNF's or DNS's.
So? I still don't get your point.
And there are 50 and 80 year olds that can beat you too.
The point is that she is doing it, and finishing, and that is awesome for everyone that does.
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snowflake930 wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »I take the stance that everyone benefits from healthier choices. I won't assume that an overweight person has failed in this department. Here is an example of a positive model:
http://fatgirlrunning-fatrunner.blogspot.ca/?m=1
Heck, we just lost Prince at fifty-seven. We won't know for a few weeks what felled him but my bet is heart attack.
She's not a particularly good example. She's 40 years old, and slower on her ultras than 50 and 80 year olds. She runs about 1/4 of the miles I do per week. Her average pace is my walking pace, on forest terrain, with a 40lb load.
She claims to run, but her pace says she walks.
What is your point, you can beat a 40 year old fat lady that is unhealthy by your definition?
Apparently, a 50 or 80 year old can...
If an 80 year old is faster than you, and you're 40, I do not think you can claim the mantle of "Example of Health".
Again, what is your point. There are 50 and 80 year olds that can beat you too.
No, not many 50 or 80 year olds are faster than me...
Let's put this in perspective:
* She's been "running" for years, and routinely places dead last in any race she enters. I've been running for just over a year, and place just under regional grading.
* She's been running for years, and is in the bottom of her age grade. Most people running for over a year start placing around 50% of their age grade.
* She's been running for years, yet her pace still averages out 13-16 min/miles. Most people running for years do far better.
None of this is pulled from the air. Check out her "runs" on Strava, and her race results on Athlinks. She's far from anything to be considered an "example". She's one step above Ragen Chastain, and that's just because she shows up and finishes races, whereas Chastain DNF's or DNS's.
So? I still don't get your point.
And there are 50 and 80 year olds that can beat you too.
The point is that she is doing it, and finishing, and that is awesome for everyone that does.
Ok. She's an idol to everyone, and we should all just shoot for mediocrity. Got ya.13 -
I take the stance that everyone benefits from healthier choices. I won't assume that an overweight person has failed in this department. Here is an example of a positive model:
http://fatgirlrunning-fatrunner.blogspot.ca/?m=1
Heck, we just lost Prince at fifty-seven. We won't know for a few weeks what felled him but my bet is heart attack.
Fat Girl Running is no 400 pound obese couch potato for sure.
While we can all agree being obese is not a health goal or shows optimal health this lady could be a roll model for millions out there that can not do a 1K walk.5 -
coreyreichle wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »I take the stance that everyone benefits from healthier choices. I won't assume that an overweight person has failed in this department. Here is an example of a positive model:
http://fatgirlrunning-fatrunner.blogspot.ca/?m=1
Heck, we just lost Prince at fifty-seven. We won't know for a few weeks what felled him but my bet is heart attack.
She's not a particularly good example. She's 40 years old, and slower on her ultras than 50 and 80 year olds. She runs about 1/4 of the miles I do per week. Her average pace is my walking pace, on forest terrain, with a 40lb load.
She claims to run, but her pace says she walks.
What is your point, you can beat a 40 year old fat lady that is unhealthy by your definition?
Apparently, a 50 or 80 year old can...
If an 80 year old is faster than you, and you're 40, I do not think you can claim the mantle of "Example of Health".
Again, what is your point. There are 50 and 80 year olds that can beat you too.
The point is obvious to anyone without a chip on their shoulder.
I guess I am pretty dense (along with the chip on my shoulder) so clue me in, because I don't see the point.
Why would you use a person as an example to look up to who is mediocre, at best, and subpar at worst?
Because she is doing it, that's why. Against all odds and in spite comments like yours that are uncalled for at best, and arrogant at worst.
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coreyreichle wrote: »
Different perspectives. The act of doing is what I focus on. Many might have quit, but she found something she enjoys doing and the fact that she comes in last doesn't stop her from going out the door and doing. I find inspiration in that.
I guess. I idolize people who work to improve themselves, and not just people who over years, just "aim to finish"... I'm glad she enjoys doing what she does, my point is she's not a particularly good example to use as someone to aim for. She's mediocre at best, and in reality, she's a sub-par performer for her age, consistently placing nearly dead last (Even by age group) in every event she's been in.7 -
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »ubermofish wrote: »Obese people cannot be healthy. But people shouldn't be shamed or bullied for it.
Why not? Particularly at the lower levels of obesity (class I obesity) there isn't a very significant impact on health. Being normal weight but sedentary shortens your life expectancy by more than being class I obese but moderately active. An active, nonsmoking class I obese person can easily be well above the population average in terms of health.
What is true is that all other factors being equal, an obese person would be healthier if they reduced their weight. That doesn't mean obese people can't be healthy.
Obesity by definition is unhealthy.
No, it is not "by definition". Learn what "by definition" means before you use it next time.
Yes it is.
You clearly have no idea what "by definition" means, Grow up, read a book or two, and then come back.-3 -
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coreyreichle wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »
Different perspectives. The act of doing is what I focus on. Many might have quit, but she found something she enjoys doing and the fact that she comes in last doesn't stop her from going out the door and doing. I find inspiration in that.
I guess. I idolize people who work to improve themselves, and not just people who over years, just "aim to finish"... I'm glad she enjoys doing what she does, my point is she's not a particularly good example to use as someone to aim for. She's mediocre at best, and in reality, she's a sub-par performer for her age, consistently placing nearly dead last (Even by age group) in every event she's been in.
I think she's a great example. I used to be panicked with fear of finishing a race last or maybe no one in my running group will be in my pace, so I shouldn't go. But she is an inspiration that being active isn't about what place you finish, but that you finish. Anyways, I am getting off this endless wheel of a conversation.
Yes, what we should all aim for is finishing dead last, every time, for years. Never aiming to better ourselves.
Amazingly enough? Should she lose 50 lbs? She'd easily shave 2 mins off her per mile pace.
Sure, your placement in a race isn't the end all, be all of running. Beating yourself, however, should be. Otherwise, you're just tooling around. Nothing wrong with that, but hardly something to be lauded.11 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »I take the stance that everyone benefits from healthier choices. I won't assume that an overweight person has failed in this department. Here is an example of a positive model:
http://fatgirlrunning-fatrunner.blogspot.ca/?m=1
Heck, we just lost Prince at fifty-seven. We won't know for a few weeks what felled him but my bet is heart attack.
Fat Girl Running is no 400 pound obese couch potato for sure.
While we can all agree being obese is not a health goal or shows optimal health this lady could be a roll model for millions out there that can not do a 1K walk.
Apparently, to many in this forum, being obese and walking is a health goal we should all aim for. And, never aim to improve ourselves.10 -
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I love watching someone struggle hard to truly overcome obstacles. That is inspiring. Even failing in the act of putting in maximum effort can be inspiring. Half assing it isn't. I'm seeing quite a bit of excuse making and half assing by people who want to be praised for it. The crazy thing is that people actually praise them for it. Call it self delusion, or mass hysteria, or PC run amok, but I find it repugnant.11
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »I love watching someone struggle hard to truly overcome obstacles. That is inspiring. Even failing in the act of putting in maximum effort can be inspiring. Half assing it isn't. I'm seeing quite a bit of excuse making and half assing by people who want to be praised for it. The crazy thing is that people actually praise them for it. Call it self delusion, or mass hysteria, or PC run amok, but I find it repugnant.
Exactly.5 -
You'd think this was a obesity-support group rather than a fitness site.17
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ArmyofAdrian wrote: »You'd think this was a obesity-support group rather than a fitness site.
I was starting to think the same thing... Basically the opposite of a pro-ana group.13 -
coreyreichle wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »You'd think this was a obesity-support group rather than a fitness site.
I was starting to think the same thing... Basically the opposite of a pro-ana group.
It's exactly like a pro-ana group except MFP won't allow that. In fact, don't be a thin woman posting about losing that last couple of pounds. MFP will jump all over you.11 -
Wow. Anyone who completes a marathon and beyond is not the definition of giving half effort in my book. I should have yelled REPUGNANT at the people I saw running last week because they were in the back of the pack. What was I thinking.
What you do will never matter to any of those runners or many of the people you are trying to get to accept obesity. If the people pushing this would accept themselves rather than asking for it, they might understand and be better for it.1 -
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »ubermofish wrote: »Obese people cannot be healthy. But people shouldn't be shamed or bullied for it.
Why not? Particularly at the lower levels of obesity (class I obesity) there isn't a very significant impact on health. Being normal weight but sedentary shortens your life expectancy by more than being class I obese but moderately active. An active, nonsmoking class I obese person can easily be well above the population average in terms of health.
What is true is that all other factors being equal, an obese person would be healthier if they reduced their weight. That doesn't mean obese people can't be healthy.
Obesity by definition is unhealthy.
No, it is not "by definition". Learn what "by definition" means before you use it next time.
Yes it is.
You clearly have no idea what "by definition" means, Grow up, read a book or two, and then come back.
I dont know what your problem is a** hole. Obesity is a state of being so overweight that it adversely affects health.
Obesity isn't defined as the weight at which you experience weight-related problems, it's clinically defined as any individual with a BMI above 30. Statistically speaking, most obese individuals are at higher risk for metabolic and cardiovascular health problems, but that's a risk, not a guarantee - not all of those obese individuals actually experience a negative health impact even though they have a higher risk.
And about 30% of the obese aren't even at higher risk compared to the non-obese - the so-called metabolically healthy obese. Those individuals don't have any elevated risk of disease as a result of obesity.15 -
coreyreichle wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I take the stance that everyone benefits from healthier choices. I won't assume that an overweight person has failed in this department. Here is an example of a positive model:
http://fatgirlrunning-fatrunner.blogspot.ca/?m=1
Heck, we just lost Prince at fifty-seven. We won't know for a few weeks what felled him but my bet is heart attack.
Fat Girl Running is no 400 pound obese couch potato for sure.
While we can all agree being obese is not a health goal or shows optimal health this lady could be a roll model for millions out there that can not do a 1K walk.
Apparently, to many in this forum, being obese and walking is a health goal we should all aim for. And, never aim to improve ourselves.
@coreyreichle you seem to know a lot but your way would have been a sorry role model for me when I was obese and still even today. Fat Girl has millions that might be moved to start moving which would never be motivated by you ever.
I bet Fat Girl does not use a mobility shopping cart if she goes to WM. There was a time when I did to keep down my pain level. Down a step hill and back up (1/4 mile) I can now do it in 7 minutes but it took 20 minutes back in 2014 due to all of the rest stops.
Try to be a motivator instead of a downer. A person who can only walk a 100 feet but with much effort can work up to 200 feet (to the mail box perhaps) is a true winner and a good example for another person who can only wall 100 feet without resting. Coming in last in a race is better than one who never got off of the sofa.
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ArmyofAdrian wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »How do I know an obese person or a malnurished person is unhealthy? Is that a real question?
Yes, it is definitely a real question
I base that on the literally millions of studies done on the subject which have reached that conclusion.
I must confess, I judge people who use the word "literally" when they mean "figuratively".
But I do realize that it's wrong of me to do so.14 -
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GaleHawkins wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I take the stance that everyone benefits from healthier choices. I won't assume that an overweight person has failed in this department. Here is an example of a positive model:
http://fatgirlrunning-fatrunner.blogspot.ca/?m=1
Heck, we just lost Prince at fifty-seven. We won't know for a few weeks what felled him but my bet is heart attack.
Fat Girl Running is no 400 pound obese couch potato for sure.
While we can all agree being obese is not a health goal or shows optimal health this lady could be a roll model for millions out there that can not do a 1K walk.
Apparently, to many in this forum, being obese and walking is a health goal we should all aim for. And, never aim to improve ourselves.
@coreyreichle you seem to know a lot but your way would have been a sorry role model for me when I was obese and still even today. Fat Girl has millions that might be moved to start moving which would never be motivated by you ever.
I bet Fat Girl does not use a mobility shopping cart if she goes to WM. There was a time when I did to keep down my pain level. Down a step hill and back up (1/4 mile) I can now do it in 7 minutes but it took 20 minutes back in 2014 due to all of the rest stops.
Try to be a motivator instead of a downer. A person who can only walk a 100 feet but with much effort can work up to 200 feet (to the mail box perhaps) is a true winner and a good example for another person who can only wall 100 feet without resting. Coming in last in a race is better than one who never got off of the sofa.
Yes, I would have been a poor role model, because I think you should always work to improve yourself, and you should never accept complacency.
Got it.
If a person can only walk 100 ft today, and is pushing to do 101 tomorrow is great in my book. Someone who can barely walk a 20 min/mile today, but is pushing for a 19:30 min/mile is awesome in my book.
Someone who sits at 16 min/mile "runs" for years is not great in my book. They are complacent. Especially when they are obstinate in the simple fact that eating less than they are will cause them to lose weight, get to a healthy weight range, and improve themselves.
I don't care what your PR for pace/distance/time/whatever is today. I only care that you're trying to beat that. Always.
I'll also bet she'll be using a mobility scooter in a couple of years. Being 300 lbs, and doing ultras, well, it's just par for the course. Humans weren't designed to do that distance, and carry double the design weight.8 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »
Sorry you feel that way and feel the need to exert your control to tell others they will never matter. But then again, I stopped caring that others think that I do or what I am won't matter a long time ago.
Then why worry about asking others for acceptance?1 -
forwardmoving wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »How do I know an obese person or a malnurished person is unhealthy? Is that a real question?
Yes, it is definitely a real question
I base that on the literally millions of studies done on the subject which have reached that conclusion.
I must confess, I judge people who use the word "literally" when they mean "figuratively".
But I do realize that it's wrong of me to do so.
There are literally millions of studies on weight.1 -
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coreyreichle wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I take the stance that everyone benefits from healthier choices. I won't assume that an overweight person has failed in this department. Here is an example of a positive model:
http://fatgirlrunning-fatrunner.blogspot.ca/?m=1
Heck, we just lost Prince at fifty-seven. We won't know for a few weeks what felled him but my bet is heart attack.
Fat Girl Running is no 400 pound obese couch potato for sure.
While we can all agree being obese is not a health goal or shows optimal health this lady could be a roll model for millions out there that can not do a 1K walk.
Apparently, to many in this forum, being obese and walking is a health goal we should all aim for. And, never aim to improve ourselves.
@coreyreichle you seem to know a lot but your way would have been a sorry role model for me when I was obese and still even today. Fat Girl has millions that might be moved to start moving which would never be motivated by you ever.
I bet Fat Girl does not use a mobility shopping cart if she goes to WM. There was a time when I did to keep down my pain level. Down a step hill and back up (1/4 mile) I can now do it in 7 minutes but it took 20 minutes back in 2014 due to all of the rest stops.
Try to be a motivator instead of a downer. A person who can only walk a 100 feet but with much effort can work up to 200 feet (to the mail box perhaps) is a true winner and a good example for another person who can only wall 100 feet without resting. Coming in last in a race is better than one who never got off of the sofa.
Yes, I would have been a poor role model, because I think you should always work to improve yourself, and you should never accept complacency.
Got it.
If a person can only walk 100 ft today, and is pushing to do 101 tomorrow is great in my book. Someone who can barely walk a 20 min/mile today, but is pushing for a 19:30 min/mile is awesome in my book.
Someone who sits at 16 min/mile "runs" for years is not great in my book. They are complacent. Especially when they are obstinate in the simple fact that eating less than they are will cause them to lose weight, get to a healthy weight range, and improve themselves.
I don't care what your PR for pace/distance/time/whatever is today. I only care that you're trying to beat that. Always.
I'll also bet she'll be using a mobility scooter in a couple of years. Being 300 lbs, and doing ultras, well, it's just par for the course. Humans weren't designed to do that distance, and carry double the design weight.
@coreyreichle I see where you are coming from and actually agree with your points strongly. What I have learned over the years (65 now) and from advanced healthcare related education is some people are gun shy over health matters especially if they see themselves as the cause of their health care issues.
We have stray dogs that show up from time to time. They need help but because they have been kicked, shot at, etc they often stay to far way to be helped.
Anyone who shows up at MFP needs to be given a warm welcome and not hear social media knock down drag outs. I am finding most that post here are actually correct based on things they have been taught or just learned from personal experiences over the years. Are they technically correct? Sometimes yes and sometimes no.
If I get their backs up by name calling, etc do I ever earn the right to share different views with them and expect them to listen? NO
Clearly you have a lot to offer the offer MFP forum members. The moderators are going a great job at an impossible job. I ask you not offer your chain to the very few true chain jerkers on MFP.
I find it very easy to be technical correct and yet totally wrong in my presentation of technically correct info.
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rankinsect wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »ubermofish wrote: »Obese people cannot be healthy. But people shouldn't be shamed or bullied for it.
Why not? Particularly at the lower levels of obesity (class I obesity) there isn't a very significant impact on health. Being normal weight but sedentary shortens your life expectancy by more than being class I obese but moderately active. An active, nonsmoking class I obese person can easily be well above the population average in terms of health.
What is true is that all other factors being equal, an obese person would be healthier if they reduced their weight. That doesn't mean obese people can't be healthy.
Obesity by definition is unhealthy.
No, it is not "by definition". Learn what "by definition" means before you use it next time.
Yes it is.
You clearly have no idea what "by definition" means, Grow up, read a book or two, and then come back.
I dont know what your problem is a** hole. Obesity is a state of being so overweight that it adversely affects health.
Obesity isn't defined as the weight at which you experience weight-related problems, it's clinically defined as any individual with a BMI above 30. Statistically speaking, most obese individuals are at higher risk for metabolic and cardiovascular health problems, but that's a risk, not a guarantee - not all of those obese individuals actually experience a negative health impact even though they have a higher risk.
And about 30% of the obese aren't even at higher risk compared to the non-obese - the so-called metabolically healthy obese. Those individuals don't have any elevated risk of disease as a result of obesity.
Do you think a BMI of 30 was chosen at random? Or do you think maybe just maybe it's based on the implications to health?4 -
I enjoy running. I love putting music on and being out in the fresh air totally in my own world. I have never ran a race and have no desire to do so. Running gets my heart rate up and burns calories. I run in my neighborhood, same distance and same time. Why do I have to beat my time? if I'm a normal weight and I'm running for cardio and stress relief am I suddenly unhealthy or a failure because I'm not getting faster?23
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