What Do You Think of the "Free to Be Hairy" Movement
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Beauty standards for women should not be more onerous than beauty standards for men?1
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paperpudding wrote: »People can also address more than one issue at a time. I notice a tendency for people to dismiss non world important issues that they don't agree with by saying where are your priorities?
As if people addressing a non world important issue can not also have more serious concerns.
If that were not the case none of us would be on chit chest thread at all, unless we had no other concerns or priorities.
Are you able to summarise very briefly the point you've been making?
People shouldn't care about what others do with their bodies? Women shouldn't have to shave? Women have to shave because of culture, and that's a bad thing / good thing / just a thing? If women have to shave then so should men? Women and men should be treated the same in all things? Women are at a disadvantage in our society? The patriarchy dictates what women do with their bodies?
This thing has been going on for 9 pages too long and I'm just confused now.
The point I am making is that western culture has distorted beauty standards for women so that natural body hair is seen as more than a personal choice but as disgusting and feral and that we should examine our own prejudices about such issues.
Yes I do think women are at a disadvantage compared to men over this as such artificial standards and connotations if one does not follow them are not applied to men to anywhere near the same extent.
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PurringMyrrh wrote: »How the kittening kitten kitten is this thread still existing?! I'm seriously flabbergasted.
People claim that they don't care, then go on to tell us how people, whom they don't care about, are mean.1 -
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otherusernamestaken wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »
Yes people can say it is disgusting, it is a free country.otherusernamestaken wrote: »ncboiler89 wrote: »otherusernamestaken wrote: »Meh. If we as a society has said we have to be mum about Caitlin Jenner pretending to be a woman or else you're a something-phobe, then why is it anybody's business if you have hair on your pits or not? Why is this even a conversation.
He'll always be Bruce to me. And if I see him on the street, I'll say " Hi Bruce." Yes I will.
LOL@ this being flagged
Thought police at work. Can't disagree with someone disfiguring themselves to feel more comfortable, but someone bleaches their skin or cuts to make themselves more comfortable and it's a tragedy. Women leave their hair where it wants to grow? Well, by all means, call it disgusting because its a free country and you can say whatever you want. Hypocritical much?
Others are free to comment on their comment, it is a free country.
Not seeing any hypocrisy.
How can you not see the hypocrisy? As one comedian put it, if a regular guy shaves off his beard, people are like"whoa!" THAT'S your chin? But if some man walks off stage and comes back a woman we're all supposed to be like, uh, hay, "how's your golf game?" B.S.
I'm not getting your line of thinking at all. Thinking hairy armpits on women is gross is hypocritical?0 -
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otherusernamestaken wrote: »ncboiler89 wrote: »otherusernamestaken wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »
Yes people can say it is disgusting, it is a free country.otherusernamestaken wrote: »ncboiler89 wrote: »otherusernamestaken wrote: »Meh. If we as a society has said we have to be mum about Caitlin Jenner pretending to be a woman or else you're a something-phobe, then why is it anybody's business if you have hair on your pits or not? Why is this even a conversation.
He'll always be Bruce to me. And if I see him on the street, I'll say " Hi Bruce." Yes I will.
LOL@ this being flagged
Thought police at work. Can't disagree with someone disfiguring themselves to feel more comfortable, but someone bleaches their skin or cuts to make themselves more comfortable and it's a tragedy. Women leave their hair where it wants to grow? Well, by all means, call it disgusting because its a free country and you can say whatever you want. Hypocritical much?
Others are free to comment on their comment, it is a free country.
Not seeing any hypocrisy.
How can you not see the hypocrisy? As one comedian put it, if a regular guy shaves off his beard, people are like"whoa!" THAT'S your chin? But if some man walks off stage and comes back a woman we're all supposed to be like, uh, hay, "how's your golf game?" B.S.
I'm not getting your line of thinking at all. Thinking hairy armpits on women is gross is hypocritical?
Read the previous comments. Someone said Caitlin Jenner would always be Bruce to them. The comment was flagged. Someone laughed that it was flagged. I said it was the thought police, because you can say you find a natural woman gross but you are not allowed to express any negative opinion about someone who starts lopping off body parts to become a fake woman. That's the hypocrisy.
Is that comment still there? Yeah? Thought police didn't remove it?0 -
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otherusernamestaken wrote: »otherusernamestaken wrote: »ncboiler89 wrote: »otherusernamestaken wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »
Yes people can say it is disgusting, it is a free country.otherusernamestaken wrote: »ncboiler89 wrote: »otherusernamestaken wrote: »Meh. If we as a society has said we have to be mum about Caitlin Jenner pretending to be a woman or else you're a something-phobe, then why is it anybody's business if you have hair on your pits or not? Why is this even a conversation.
He'll always be Bruce to me. And if I see him on the street, I'll say " Hi Bruce." Yes I will.
LOL@ this being flagged
Thought police at work. Can't disagree with someone disfiguring themselves to feel more comfortable, but someone bleaches their skin or cuts to make themselves more comfortable and it's a tragedy. Women leave their hair where it wants to grow? Well, by all means, call it disgusting because its a free country and you can say whatever you want. Hypocritical much?
Others are free to comment on their comment, it is a free country.
Not seeing any hypocrisy.
How can you not see the hypocrisy? As one comedian put it, if a regular guy shaves off his beard, people are like"whoa!" THAT'S your chin? But if some man walks off stage and comes back a woman we're all supposed to be like, uh, hay, "how's your golf game?" B.S.
I'm not getting your line of thinking at all. Thinking hairy armpits on women is gross is hypocritical?
Read the previous comments. Someone said Caitlin Jenner would always be Bruce to them. The comment was flagged. Someone laughed that it was flagged. I said it was the thought police, because you can say you find a natural woman gross but you are not allowed to express any negative opinion about someone who starts lopping off body parts to become a fake woman. That's the hypocrisy.
Is that comment still there? Yeah? Thought police didn't remove it?
Yay, you!
You're a strange one.0 -
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otherusernamestaken wrote: »ncboiler89 wrote: »otherusernamestaken wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »
Yes people can say it is disgusting, it is a free country.otherusernamestaken wrote: »ncboiler89 wrote: »otherusernamestaken wrote: »Meh. If we as a society has said we have to be mum about Caitlin Jenner pretending to be a woman or else you're a something-phobe, then why is it anybody's business if you have hair on your pits or not? Why is this even a conversation.
He'll always be Bruce to me. And if I see him on the street, I'll say " Hi Bruce." Yes I will.
LOL@ this being flagged
Thought police at work. Can't disagree with someone disfiguring themselves to feel more comfortable, but someone bleaches their skin or cuts to make themselves more comfortable and it's a tragedy. Women leave their hair where it wants to grow? Well, by all means, call it disgusting because its a free country and you can say whatever you want. Hypocritical much?
Others are free to comment on their comment, it is a free country.
Not seeing any hypocrisy.
How can you not see the hypocrisy? As one comedian put it, if a regular guy shaves off his beard, people are like"whoa!" THAT'S your chin? But if some man walks off stage and comes back a woman we're all supposed to be like, uh, hay, "how's your golf game?" B.S.
I'm not getting your line of thinking at all. Thinking hairy armpits on women is gross is hypocritical?
Read the previous comments. Someone said Caitlin Jenner would always be Bruce to them. The comment was flagged. Someone laughed that it was flagged. I said it was the thought police, because you can say you find a natural woman gross but you are not allowed to express any negative opinion about someone who starts lopping off body parts to become a fake woman. That's the hypocrisy.
Gotcha0 -
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Wasn't that a thing in the 80's? It's back? Cool!0
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paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »People can also address more than one issue at a time. I notice a tendency for people to dismiss non world important issues that they don't agree with by saying where are your priorities?
As if people addressing a non world important issue can not also have more serious concerns.
If that were not the case none of us would be on chit chest thread at all, unless we had no other concerns or priorities.
Are you able to summarise very briefly the point you've been making?
People shouldn't care about what others do with their bodies? Women shouldn't have to shave? Women have to shave because of culture, and that's a bad thing / good thing / just a thing? If women have to shave then so should men? Women and men should be treated the same in all things? Women are at a disadvantage in our society? The patriarchy dictates what women do with their bodies?
This thing has been going on for 9 pages too long and I'm just confused now.
The point I am making is that western culture has distorted beauty standards for women so that natural body hair is seen as more than a personal choice but as disgusting and feral and that we should examine our own prejudices about such issues.
Yes I do think women are at a disadvantage compared to men over this as such artificial standards and connotations if one does not follow them are not applied to men to anywhere near the same extent.
Your premise is that Western culture (magazines/beauty market) is what influences and not the other way around. The market puts forth what sells and eliminates what doesn't. If there were not a market or appeal for women with shaved armpits, not amount of marketing could make it so. My opinion on the matter is that women typically do what they themselves think makes them attractive or comfortable. I don't think you're giving women enough credit to determine for themselves what they like and are suggesting that they only like what they like because society told them so. I personally don't like body hair, on men or women. To me, it is a genetic throwback to our ancestral days and is completely unnecessary from a biological standpoint (except for the hair that grows in our noses and eyelashes which have a particular purpose).1 -
biggsterjackster wrote: »Wasn't that a thing in the 80's? It's back? Cool!
I don't remember it back then, and if it was, I probably would have been against it then....being a know-it-all teenager and all back then.0 -
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_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Well not in this thread they haven't - although the attitudes to women have been expressed several times.
And interesting that men can do nothing ie be their natural un hair removed bodies, but women cannot.
Natural men are ok but we want to glorify artificial concepts of beauty for women.
so there's nothing wrong with fat gross dudes who can only grow a neckbeard then eh?
but there is. everybody makes fun of them. rightly so. just google neckbeard meme.
and women can do anything they want. if you or anybody wants to grow their leg/armpit hair out 6 feet long, knock yourself out, nobody can/will stop you. but its not what most guys want. most women would look at you as aberrant as well if you did I'd think.
trying to change societal standards of what most heterosexual men want by growing your leg hair out is the same as hardcore christians believing they can "pray away the gay".
its not going to happen.
Yes but the point isn't what heterosexual men prefer but the fact that this is so ingrained in western cultures as an artificial standard of beauty. Men don't just prefer something in a vacuum - it is a cultural expectation developed over the last century in our culture.
Other cultures and other times ( in fact just about every culture and times except ours) have not expected women to have hair less legs or armpits.
And it goes way beyond just having your own preference - eg the post just after this discussion showing the photos and saying 'disgusting'
Why is the natural female body disgusting?
why are balding guys who rock a combover disgusting?
sexual preference same as everything else. true those guys could keep just letting it grow but it looks absurd when they do and its definitely not preferred in the sexual marketplace.
artificial standards aren't always a bad thing. or else we'd all look like grungy cave men/women and we'd stink to high heaven...if you say women shaving their leg/body hair is an artificial standard, why not makeup? what about deodorant? what about clear skin products? moisturizers? toothpaste? after all its all natural to not use those things- where do you draw the line? who gets to decide the line?
the sexual market decides it. anybody is free to do anything they want with their own body, least here in the US. I love that, its a beautiful thing, but you can't act like there's something wrong with everybody else when you as an individual choose to go against the flow. that's just silly.
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Lady_Spartan15 wrote: »To each their own.. I however, will continue to shave/wax/pluck/nair...
You savage.0 -
otherusernamestaken wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »People can also address more than one issue at a time. I notice a tendency for people to dismiss non world important issues that they don't agree with by saying where are your priorities?
As if people addressing a non world important issue can not also have more serious concerns.
If that were not the case none of us would be on chit chest thread at all, unless we had no other concerns or priorities.
Are you able to summarise very briefly the point you've been making?
People shouldn't care about what others do with their bodies? Women shouldn't have to shave? Women have to shave because of culture, and that's a bad thing / good thing / just a thing? If women have to shave then so should men? Women and men should be treated the same in all things? Women are at a disadvantage in our society? The patriarchy dictates what women do with their bodies?
This thing has been going on for 9 pages too long and I'm just confused now.
The point I am making is that western culture has distorted beauty standards for women so that natural body hair is seen as more than a personal choice but as disgusting and feral and that we should examine our own prejudices about such issues.
Yes I do think women are at a disadvantage compared to men over this as such artificial standards and connotations if one does not follow them are not applied to men to anywhere near the same extent.
Your premise is that Western culture (magazines/beauty market) is what influences and not the other way around. The market puts forth what sells and eliminates what doesn't. If there were not a market or appeal for women with shaved armpits, not amount of marketing could make it so. My opinion on the matter is that women typically do what they themselves think makes them attractive or comfortable. I don't think you're giving women enough credit to determine for themselves what they like and are suggesting that they only like what they like because society told them so. I personally don't like body hair, on men or women. To me, it is a genetic throwback to our ancestral days and is completely unnecessary from a biological standpoint (except for the hair that grows in our noses and eyelashes which have a particular purpose).
I disagree. I think women ARE told, and those who rebel face social criticism. An example: purse size, style and color. One season tiny purses, the next season tote bag sized purses. If you tried to rock a tiny purse during the giant purse phase, you'd face the noses looking down at you. Now that medium, structured purses are in, don't be seen with that giant bag you paid $400 for.
What about people who own a white (or yellow!) fridge, a brown car, pink walls/furniture, wear poofy bangs or acid washed jeans? There is clearly nothing wrong with those things since we collectively found it ok enough to do en mass, but fashion said we can't do that anymore so we don't. Then they told us it was ok to have one mismatched nail polished finger so we did.
Yes, people ARE the influenced by the media.
Never quite understood that one.0 -
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otherusernamestaken wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »People can also address more than one issue at a time. I notice a tendency for people to dismiss non world important issues that they don't agree with by saying where are your priorities?
As if people addressing a non world important issue can not also have more serious concerns.
If that were not the case none of us would be on chit chest thread at all, unless we had no other concerns or priorities.
Are you able to summarise very briefly the point you've been making?
People shouldn't care about what others do with their bodies? Women shouldn't have to shave? Women have to shave because of culture, and that's a bad thing / good thing / just a thing? If women have to shave then so should men? Women and men should be treated the same in all things? Women are at a disadvantage in our society? The patriarchy dictates what women do with their bodies?
This thing has been going on for 9 pages too long and I'm just confused now.
The point I am making is that western culture has distorted beauty standards for women so that natural body hair is seen as more than a personal choice but as disgusting and feral and that we should examine our own prejudices about such issues.
Yes I do think women are at a disadvantage compared to men over this as such artificial standards and connotations if one does not follow them are not applied to men to anywhere near the same extent.
Your premise is that Western culture (magazines/beauty market) is what influences and not the other way around. The market puts forth what sells and eliminates what doesn't. If there were not a market or appeal for women with shaved armpits, not amount of marketing could make it so. My opinion on the matter is that women typically do what they themselves think makes them attractive or comfortable. I don't think you're giving women enough credit to determine for themselves what they like and are suggesting that they only like what they like because society told them so. I personally don't like body hair, on men or women. To me, it is a genetic throwback to our ancestral days and is completely unnecessary from a biological standpoint (except for the hair that grows in our noses and eyelashes which have a particular purpose).
I disagree. I think women ARE told, and those who rebel face social criticism. An example: purse size, style and color. One season tiny purses, the next season tote bag sized purses. If you tried to rock a tiny purse during the giant purse phase, you'd face the noses looking down at you. Now that medium, structured purses are in, don't be seen with that giant bag you paid $400 for.
What about people who own a white (or yellow!) fridge, a brown car, pink walls/furniture, wear poofy bangs or acid washed jeans? There is clearly nothing wrong with those things since we collectively found it ok enough to do en mass, but fashion said we can't do that anymore so we don't. Then they told us it was ok to have one mismatched nail polished finger so we did.
Yes, people ARE the influenced by the media.
I want an olive green fridge with the weird oldschool handle.1 -
women get looked down upon for the wrong purse size? is that real?
today i learned i will forever know nothing.2 -
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biggsterjackster wrote: »Wasn't that a thing in the 80's? It's back? Cool!
Ahh the 80's, where men had longer hair than women and wore more makeup than women.0 -
biggsterjackster wrote: »Wasn't that a thing in the 80's? It's back? Cool!
I don't remember it back then, and if it was, I probably would have been against it then....being a know-it-all teenager and all back then.
Maybe just in Europe, where I lived back then. Nena was pretty hairy.0 -
otherusernamestaken wrote: »ncboiler89 wrote: »otherusernamestaken wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »
Yes people can say it is disgusting, it is a free country.otherusernamestaken wrote: »ncboiler89 wrote: »otherusernamestaken wrote: »Meh. If we as a society has said we have to be mum about Caitlin Jenner pretending to be a woman or else you're a something-phobe, then why is it anybody's business if you have hair on your pits or not? Why is this even a conversation.
He'll always be Bruce to me. And if I see him on the street, I'll say " Hi Bruce." Yes I will.
LOL@ this being flagged
Thought police at work. Can't disagree with someone disfiguring themselves to feel more comfortable, but someone bleaches their skin or cuts to make themselves more comfortable and it's a tragedy. Women leave their hair where it wants to grow? Well, by all means, call it disgusting because its a free country and you can say whatever you want. Hypocritical much?
Others are free to comment on their comment, it is a free country.
Not seeing any hypocrisy.
How can you not see the hypocrisy? As one comedian put it, if a regular guy shaves off his beard, people are like"whoa!" THAT'S your chin? But if some man walks off stage and comes back a woman we're all supposed to be like, uh, hay, "how's your golf game?" B.S.
I'm not getting your line of thinking at all. Thinking hairy armpits on women is gross is hypocritical?
Read the previous comments. Someone said Caitlin Jenner would always be Bruce to them. The comment was flagged. Someone laughed that it was flagged. I said it was the thought police, because you can say you find a natural woman gross but you are not allowed to express any negative opinion about someone who starts lopping off body parts to become a fake woman. That's the hypocrisy.
Pretty sure someone actually said they would go up to Caitlyn Jenner for no reason and intentionally call her Bruce.
That's just being an *kitten* trying to offend someone.2 -
Hair today gone tomorrow1
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