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Why do people overeat and/or become obese? Is it harder than average for some to lose weight?
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For me, I was obese because of lack of awareness. I thought I ate fairly healthy and my friends did too, but I was only gaining or maintaining my weight not losing. I would eat salads, yogurt, and fruit all the time. I thought I would never be able to lose weight. It wasn't until I saw what healthy eating really meant and about portion control, I began to see results. My friend that is obese as well and is trying to lose weight said to me," I eat healthy and I don't eat large portions." I said to her you are probably eating more than you realize. I understood CICO but what 1200 calories really look like I had no clue.12
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This is me too. I of course want to eat when I am hungry, but am willing to eat at any time, just because I love food. But, I have been able to lose and keep my weight off because I am aware of it. I eat the appropriate amount of calories, and choose (most days) not to go over.I have said all along that overeating has nothing to do with hunger. I think it is all in the mind. So many dieticians are saying 'drink water' to help you feel full. If you are going to a party, eat before you go. Feeling full has nothing to do with how much some people eat either on a normal day or when they go out. I could have had a meal and if someone then asked me out for another meal, I would go. Or if someone brought me a bar of chocolate, I would eat it. Nothing at all to do with being hungry or feeling full. It has nothing to do with being hungry, greedy or anything else. Until I, or someone else sorts out my brain, I will not lose weight and keep it off.
My husband is tall and slim, but if I bought him chocolate after eating a meal, he wouldn't want it. Me, on the other hand cannot reax until I have eaten it. Full or not. So, I have come to the conclusion that my brain is wired differently to my husbands. So many times he says 'No I don't want it. I'm not hungry'. That never happens to me. I crave it until I get it.
I have, by the way, lost over 30lbs but it has been very hard work and if my guard is down I slip back occasionally.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I really don't find it particularly surprising that people overeat and gain weight, and I certainly don't think it's contrary to CICO in any way. Nor do I think it makes "put down the fork" bad advice, although I know it can be challenging for lots of reasons.
We evolved in circumstances in which not having enough food was an issue and surplus food was not, and where we were required to be active. Throughout human history (until quite recently) activity was necessary and scarcity was the main concern, and on top of that all cultures had customs and rituals that regulated eating in some way (similar to how other basic urges, like sex, are regulated by culture). It was beneficial for humans, also, to be able to eat when food was available and go without when not, such that we can adapt to not eating/eating little for a period of time (periods of scarcity) and eat more than we need immediately when food is available. As a result, the assumption by some that a healthy human won't eat more than maintenance naturally is questionable -- why would we have evolved to prevent something that was not an issue? It's amazing how out bodies adapt to keep an equilibrium as is.
So given all that, put us in a situation of abundance, with food around at all times that we don't even have to prepare ourselves if we don't want to, a culture that says "eat whenever you feel like it, and for pure pleasure, not for hunger or according to overarching culture," I think it's completely unsurprising that many people overeat and gain weight. It's normal for humans to feel desire to eat tasty and available food when it is present and therefore in the mind. Not everyone feels that way, but that it's common, not surprising.
Add to this that many humans are bad with short term vs. long term tradeoffs -- yeah, overeating will keep you fat and eating less will allow for lost weight, but that will take a long time and it's easy to think one day or one meal won't matter and keep repeating that. And that's even before taking into account how easy it is to use any form of pleasure in a distorted or misplaced way, the power of habit, cultural associations with food (reminds me of a happy occasion or some such), and before worrying about actual messed up relationships with food and weight (which I think often feed into a cycle).
A human with a healthy appetite won't eat more than the body needs though even with abundant, delicious food available.
I'm not sure I am following your argument, but reality disproves this -- a majority of people do when food is abundant and cheap, as currently.
Overfeeding studies involve people who are not overweight, but you can't claim only those people are "healthy."I believe our mores around food evolved to protect the appetite - not to prevent overeating per se. Feasting, eating until full, "making room" for dessert are the exact opposite of not overeating and they were all part of a healthy eating pattern.
I don't think they evolved to avoid overeating (as that was not much of a problem until recently except among a small subset), but they operated to do so. One reason I didn't gain weight or think much about food between meals when growing up -- no matter what I ate -- was that you ate at mealtime. Even after I gained weight I took a trip to Nicaragua where we were doing lots of physical activity and busy all day and had no opportunities to eat except at regular meals (which were high carb/low protein compared to how I ate back home). I never thought about food, again, except at meals and ate smaller portions than at home (eating with other people when fat does this sometimes), and wasn't hungry at all. I think it was that food just wasn't available otherwise.If you truly overeat at one meal you naturally eat less at another and it all balances out. Providing you have a normal appetite.
Again, this is contrary to reality, as a majority of people seem to eat above maintenance sufficiently to become overweight.11 -
Alluminati wrote: »alyssa_rest wrote: »I don't know if there is a right answer. One thing I've learned through my own struggle and research is that your body craves nutrients. When it feels as though it is lacking one, it demands more. When you have had what is required, you become full. That is why eating one chicken breast and steamed veggies will fill you up quicker and for a longer time period than indulging in an entire bag of chips. Doesn't mean it tastes better though, haha! CICO does work. It's scientifically proven and no one can argue that. I think that many people are totally unaware of how effective it is. And yes, you can eat "healthy foods" all you want. It is easy to even over-eat what's deemed as "healthy" as well. Those uneducated on CICO don't understand that. Or maybe they even don't WANT to understand.
please teach me how to crave celery
Idk but there was an episode of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles where they made Michelangelo stop craving pizza.5 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
I think the majority of people who are overweight/obese lack education in anything food related.
I watched an episode of my 600lb life...the guy gained weight and the doctor was asking why? the patient said "I don't know I should be losing I switched out my white bread for whole wheat"....seriously.
And based on my own experience I knew about calories from being a teenager and having my mother diet all the time...but had no clue on how to lose weight and maintain...
I could lose like a demon...but gain it back.
diet books, diet websites, diet pills, diet programs aka WW etc...all teach people how to lose but not how to maintain...
and as adults if we weren't taught about nutrition and calories how do we teach our kids??????
So, you're basically saying people with weight problems do not know lack education on how to maintain?
No what I am saying is most people have no idea how calories work.
I'm not sure I believe this is true of most. It doesn't seem to mesh with the number of posts asking "why can't I stop overeating" or "how do I stop binge eating" or "how do I break my addiction to sugar"
To me these sound more like issues with control of cravings than a lack of knowledge that too many calories are being consumed.
This is a very small sample tho...I do firmly believe based on my own life most don't understand calories.
If they did there wouldn't be statements of CICO doesn't work for everyone and there wouldn't be this large diet industry preying on people...
Sure they get the concept of I need to eat fewer calories but when it comes down to it they have no idea what that truly means...
But I feel like this is going to get into "food addiction" area and I am not into that debate.
What does it truly mean if not; determining the calories of current intake and eating less than that; or determining caloric output and eating less than that?
to lose weight it truly means taking in less calories than you burn
to maintain weight it truly means that you are eating the same as what you are burning.
If your current intake is making you gain 1lb a week...eating 50 calories less a day won't work...but you know that3 -
I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
I think the majority of people who are overweight/obese lack education in anything food related.
I watched an episode of my 600lb life...the guy gained weight and the doctor was asking why? the patient said "I don't know I should be losing I switched out my white bread for whole wheat"....seriously.
And based on my own experience I knew about calories from being a teenager and having my mother diet all the time...but had no clue on how to lose weight and maintain...
I could lose like a demon...but gain it back.
diet books, diet websites, diet pills, diet programs aka WW etc...all teach people how to lose but not how to maintain...
and as adults if we weren't taught about nutrition and calories how do we teach our kids??????
It's actually pretty simple. Your pants get too tight, you are getting fatter. Oh, better back off on the eating and/or exercise more
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lemurcat12 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I really don't find it particularly surprising that people overeat and gain weight, and I certainly don't think it's contrary to CICO in any way. Nor do I think it makes "put down the fork" bad advice, although I know it can be challenging for lots of reasons.
We evolved in circumstances in which not having enough food was an issue and surplus food was not, and where we were required to be active. Throughout human history (until quite recently) activity was necessary and scarcity was the main concern, and on top of that all cultures had customs and rituals that regulated eating in some way (similar to how other basic urges, like sex, are regulated by culture). It was beneficial for humans, also, to be able to eat when food was available and go without when not, such that we can adapt to not eating/eating little for a period of time (periods of scarcity) and eat more than we need immediately when food is available. As a result, the assumption by some that a healthy human won't eat more than maintenance naturally is questionable -- why would we have evolved to prevent something that was not an issue? It's amazing how out bodies adapt to keep an equilibrium as is.
So given all that, put us in a situation of abundance, with food around at all times that we don't even have to prepare ourselves if we don't want to, a culture that says "eat whenever you feel like it, and for pure pleasure, not for hunger or according to overarching culture," I think it's completely unsurprising that many people overeat and gain weight. It's normal for humans to feel desire to eat tasty and available food when it is present and therefore in the mind. Not everyone feels that way, but that it's common, not surprising.
Add to this that many humans are bad with short term vs. long term tradeoffs -- yeah, overeating will keep you fat and eating less will allow for lost weight, but that will take a long time and it's easy to think one day or one meal won't matter and keep repeating that. And that's even before taking into account how easy it is to use any form of pleasure in a distorted or misplaced way, the power of habit, cultural associations with food (reminds me of a happy occasion or some such), and before worrying about actual messed up relationships with food and weight (which I think often feed into a cycle).
A human with a healthy appetite won't eat more than the body needs though even with abundant, delicious food available.
I'm not sure I am following your argument, but reality disproves this -- a majority of people do when food is abundant and cheap, as currently.
Overfeeding studies involve people who are not overweight, but you can't claim only those people are "healthy."I believe our mores around food evolved to protect the appetite - not to prevent overeating per se. Feasting, eating until full, "making room" for dessert are the exact opposite of not overeating and they were all part of a healthy eating pattern.
I don't think they evolved to avoid overeating (as that was not much of a problem until recently except among a small subset), but they operated to do so. One reason I didn't gain weight or think much about food between meals when growing up -- no matter what I ate -- was that you ate at mealtime. Even after I gained weight I took a trip to Nicaragua where we were doing lots of physical activity and busy all day and had no opportunities to eat except at regular meals (which were high carb/low protein compared to how I ate back home). I never thought about food, again, except at meals and ate smaller portions than at home (eating with other people when fat does this sometimes), and wasn't hungry at all. I think it was that food just wasn't available otherwise.If you truly overeat at one meal you naturally eat less at another and it all balances out. Providing you have a normal appetite.
Again, this is contrary to reality, as a majority of people seem to eat above maintenance sufficiently to become overweight.
My argument is simply that eating to the point of obesity is not normal or natural in those with a healthy, normal appetite regardless of the food environment.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
I think the majority of people who are overweight/obese lack education in anything food related.
I watched an episode of my 600lb life...the guy gained weight and the doctor was asking why? the patient said "I don't know I should be losing I switched out my white bread for whole wheat"....seriously.
And based on my own experience I knew about calories from being a teenager and having my mother diet all the time...but had no clue on how to lose weight and maintain...
I could lose like a demon...but gain it back.
diet books, diet websites, diet pills, diet programs aka WW etc...all teach people how to lose but not how to maintain...
and as adults if we weren't taught about nutrition and calories how do we teach our kids??????
So, you're basically saying people with weight problems do not know lack education on how to maintain?
No what I am saying is most people have no idea how calories work.
I'm not sure I believe this is true of most. It doesn't seem to mesh with the number of posts asking "why can't I stop overeating" or "how do I stop binge eating" or "how do I break my addiction to sugar"
To me these sound more like issues with control of cravings than a lack of knowledge that too many calories are being consumed.
This is a very small sample tho...I do firmly believe based on my own life most don't understand calories.
If they did there wouldn't be statements of CICO doesn't work for everyone and there wouldn't be this large diet industry preying on people...
Sure they get the concept of I need to eat fewer calories but when it comes down to it they have no idea what that truly means...
But I feel like this is going to get into "food addiction" area and I am not into that debate.
MFP is a very small sample but your own life is not? How many people do you know intimately enough to know why they got fat?
We are all addicted to food. It's a necessity.
my own life includes a lot of documentaries on eating disorders and the diet industry and watching shows like my 600lb life and knowing that there are more threads on lack of knowledge on calories and what they really mean than what you mentioned yah I think it's safe to say my knowledge and what I have seen is a bigger sample than these boards.
And food addiction in the sense that lots claim is not the same...but you knew what I meant....but since I have to spell it out apparently I will from now on.
If this goes down the route "X# of people are addicted to X and that's why they can't stop eating..."...1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
I think the majority of people who are overweight/obese lack education in anything food related.
I watched an episode of my 600lb life...the guy gained weight and the doctor was asking why? the patient said "I don't know I should be losing I switched out my white bread for whole wheat"....seriously.
And based on my own experience I knew about calories from being a teenager and having my mother diet all the time...but had no clue on how to lose weight and maintain...
I could lose like a demon...but gain it back.
diet books, diet websites, diet pills, diet programs aka WW etc...all teach people how to lose but not how to maintain...
and as adults if we weren't taught about nutrition and calories how do we teach our kids??????
It's actually pretty simple. Your pants get too tight, you are getting fatter. Oh, better back off on the eating and/or exercise more
the average person doesn't think like that and the new normal is fat...at least in north america.7 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I really don't find it particularly surprising that people overeat and gain weight, and I certainly don't think it's contrary to CICO in any way. Nor do I think it makes "put down the fork" bad advice, although I know it can be challenging for lots of reasons.
We evolved in circumstances in which not having enough food was an issue and surplus food was not, and where we were required to be active. Throughout human history (until quite recently) activity was necessary and scarcity was the main concern, and on top of that all cultures had customs and rituals that regulated eating in some way (similar to how other basic urges, like sex, are regulated by culture). It was beneficial for humans, also, to be able to eat when food was available and go without when not, such that we can adapt to not eating/eating little for a period of time (periods of scarcity) and eat more than we need immediately when food is available. As a result, the assumption by some that a healthy human won't eat more than maintenance naturally is questionable -- why would we have evolved to prevent something that was not an issue? It's amazing how out bodies adapt to keep an equilibrium as is.
So given all that, put us in a situation of abundance, with food around at all times that we don't even have to prepare ourselves if we don't want to, a culture that says "eat whenever you feel like it, and for pure pleasure, not for hunger or according to overarching culture," I think it's completely unsurprising that many people overeat and gain weight. It's normal for humans to feel desire to eat tasty and available food when it is present and therefore in the mind. Not everyone feels that way, but that it's common, not surprising.
Add to this that many humans are bad with short term vs. long term tradeoffs -- yeah, overeating will keep you fat and eating less will allow for lost weight, but that will take a long time and it's easy to think one day or one meal won't matter and keep repeating that. And that's even before taking into account how easy it is to use any form of pleasure in a distorted or misplaced way, the power of habit, cultural associations with food (reminds me of a happy occasion or some such), and before worrying about actual messed up relationships with food and weight (which I think often feed into a cycle).
A human with a healthy appetite won't eat more than the body needs though even with abundant, delicious food available.
I'm not sure I am following your argument, but reality disproves this -- a majority of people do when food is abundant and cheap, as currently.
Overfeeding studies involve people who are not overweight, but you can't claim only those people are "healthy."I believe our mores around food evolved to protect the appetite - not to prevent overeating per se. Feasting, eating until full, "making room" for dessert are the exact opposite of not overeating and they were all part of a healthy eating pattern.
I don't think they evolved to avoid overeating (as that was not much of a problem until recently except among a small subset), but they operated to do so. One reason I didn't gain weight or think much about food between meals when growing up -- no matter what I ate -- was that you ate at mealtime. Even after I gained weight I took a trip to Nicaragua where we were doing lots of physical activity and busy all day and had no opportunities to eat except at regular meals (which were high carb/low protein compared to how I ate back home). I never thought about food, again, except at meals and ate smaller portions than at home (eating with other people when fat does this sometimes), and wasn't hungry at all. I think it was that food just wasn't available otherwise.If you truly overeat at one meal you naturally eat less at another and it all balances out. Providing you have a normal appetite.
Again, this is contrary to reality, as a majority of people seem to eat above maintenance sufficiently to become overweight.
people eat because they can...as long as the food is there and available people will eat even when they aren't hungry because it tastes good.
I got fat because it tasted good and I wanted it...
I would get fat cut it all out, lose the weight and gain it because due to not understanding how food, all food, made us fat if we ate too much.
I get it now...1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
I think the majority of people who are overweight/obese lack education in anything food related.
I watched an episode of my 600lb life...the guy gained weight and the doctor was asking why? the patient said "I don't know I should be losing I switched out my white bread for whole wheat"....seriously.
And based on my own experience I knew about calories from being a teenager and having my mother diet all the time...but had no clue on how to lose weight and maintain...
I could lose like a demon...but gain it back.
diet books, diet websites, diet pills, diet programs aka WW etc...all teach people how to lose but not how to maintain...
and as adults if we weren't taught about nutrition and calories how do we teach our kids??????
So, you're basically saying people with weight problems do not know lack education on how to maintain?
No what I am saying is most people have no idea how calories work.
I'm not sure I believe this is true of most. It doesn't seem to mesh with the number of posts asking "why can't I stop overeating" or "how do I stop binge eating" or "how do I break my addiction to sugar"
To me these sound more like issues with control of cravings than a lack of knowledge that too many calories are being consumed.
This is a very small sample tho...I do firmly believe based on my own life most don't understand calories.
If they did there wouldn't be statements of CICO doesn't work for everyone and there wouldn't be this large diet industry preying on people...
Sure they get the concept of I need to eat fewer calories but when it comes down to it they have no idea what that truly means...
But I feel like this is going to get into "food addiction" area and I am not into that debate.
What does it truly mean if not; determining the calories of current intake and eating less than that; or determining caloric output and eating less than that?
to lose weight it truly means taking in less calories than you burn
to maintain weight it truly means that you are eating the same as what you are burning.
If your current intake is making you gain 1lb a week...eating 50 calories less a day won't work...but you know that
Ok, I'm still trying to fully understand what you meant by "Sure they get the concept of I need to eat fewer calories but when it comes down to it they have no idea what that truly means...". So for the sake of clarification, you are saying that they miscalculate their caloric needs or the number of calories they should cut from their diet? In other words, you are saying they know they need to eat fewer calories, but don't know how much fewer?
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I got obese because I love food and the food I love tastes good.
I can really relate to people that feel this way.
I have lost a lot of weight and kept it off for over 2-1/2 years now. I honestly miss being able to eat whatever I want, whenever I want to eat it..................but, I really love being a normal size and wearing normal sized clothing even more than I loved eating whatever I wanted to.9 -
I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
^^ simply saying it's a lack of education is also grossly incorrect. IMO. Trust me, I'm educated. Very much so in nutritional, exercise etc. But doesn't make it any easier to control that "excessive eating." Not in the slightest. I think unless you've REALLY had an issue with food? It's perhaps easier to say "that person is simply not educated" when in fact, that might only be a sliver of the issue.18 -
I can't tell you about everyone else but I'll tell you what goes on with me.
For me, not all calories from all foods are equal. What I get out of a hardboiled egg is much different than a piece of toast with peanut butter, and I don't mean just the basic nutritional value of it. What comes with that toast is the "need" or "strong urge" to have more. I'll eat one piece and want another. I might be ok after that, but in a couple hours I'll want some other fix from a bowl of cereal or something.
And I mean, why not right? We see it all the time on TV. "Part of a balanced breakfast!" Pictured a huge glass of orange juice, a giant bowl of cereal and two pieces of toast. So we see it constantly on TV and think, ok, that's what I should be eating.
Well.. for me, that's wrong. That glass of OJ will cause massive sugar cravings and will actually make me more hungry than before I even drank it. I could easily eat two bowls of cereal and my mind will still think, we should have fruit too.
But - if I eat something else, like eggs with bacon, I'm good until the afternoon. If I eat a baked chicken breast with broccoli and butter, I'm full and don't feel the need to get anything else. I don't have that switch, that craving to tell me to get more.
It's not just "putting down the fork". It's re-evaluating what you're eating and the patterns foods and cravings have on you.12 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
I think the majority of people who are overweight/obese lack education in anything food related.
I watched an episode of my 600lb life...the guy gained weight and the doctor was asking why? the patient said "I don't know I should be losing I switched out my white bread for whole wheat"....seriously.
And based on my own experience I knew about calories from being a teenager and having my mother diet all the time...but had no clue on how to lose weight and maintain...
I could lose like a demon...but gain it back.
diet books, diet websites, diet pills, diet programs aka WW etc...all teach people how to lose but not how to maintain...
and as adults if we weren't taught about nutrition and calories how do we teach our kids??????
So, you're basically saying people with weight problems do not know lack education on how to maintain?
No what I am saying is most people have no idea how calories work.
I'm not sure I believe this is true of most. It doesn't seem to mesh with the number of posts asking "why can't I stop overeating" or "how do I stop binge eating" or "how do I break my addiction to sugar"
To me these sound more like issues with control of cravings than a lack of knowledge that too many calories are being consumed.
This is a very small sample tho...I do firmly believe based on my own life most don't understand calories.
If they did there wouldn't be statements of CICO doesn't work for everyone and there wouldn't be this large diet industry preying on people...
Sure they get the concept of I need to eat fewer calories but when it comes down to it they have no idea what that truly means...
But I feel like this is going to get into "food addiction" area and I am not into that debate.
What does it truly mean if not; determining the calories of current intake and eating less than that; or determining caloric output and eating less than that?
to lose weight it truly means taking in less calories than you burn
to maintain weight it truly means that you are eating the same as what you are burning.
If your current intake is making you gain 1lb a week...eating 50 calories less a day won't work...but you know that
Ok, I'm still trying to fully understand what you meant by "Sure they get the concept of I need to eat fewer calories but when it comes down to it they have no idea what that truly means...". So for the sake of clarification, you are saying that they miscalculate their caloric needs or the number of calories they should cut from their diet? In other words, you are saying they know they need to eat fewer calories, but don't know how much fewer?
sort of...
People know that to lose weight they need to eat (for arguments sake) 1200 calories and that means to them 1lb a week. *I know this as a friend is on MFP and this is her life....
They log 1200 calories and really believe they ate 1200 calories.
They exercise and log 500 calories for 45mins of treadmill walking at 3.5 mph because that's what the treadmill says.
In reality they are eating 1600 a day and burning maybe 300..(I am being generous)
They lose 1/2 a week or maybe none because they really ate 1800 for a few days.
They ask "why am I not losing weight"...
They really believe that they are eating 1200 calories and exercising that much and feel they are one of those "that can't lose weight" or "it's the kinds of calories" or "it's because I ate after 7pm" or "because I didn't drink my hot lemon water this morning to rev my metabolism"
No concept of what 1200 calories looks like or how hard it is to exercise off 500 calories walking...
See for me I can tell you what 30gram of marble cheddar looks like and that fact it has 120 calories...or how much 180 grams of mix frozen tropical fruit looks like...I got cha...150 grams of chicken I know but if I am not familiar with the food I would need my food scale to know the weight to get the calories...6 -
I have said all along that overeating has nothing to do with hunger. I think it is all in the mind. So many dieticians are saying 'drink water' to help you feel full. If you are going to a party, eat before you go. Feeling full has nothing to do with how much some people eat either on a normal day or when they go out. I could have had a meal and if someone then asked me out for another meal, I would go. Or if someone brought me a bar of chocolate, I would eat it. Nothing at all to do with being hungry or feeling full. It has nothing to do with being hungry, greedy or anything else. Until I, or someone else sorts out my brain, I will not lose weight and keep it off.
My husband is tall and slim, but if I bought him chocolate after eating a meal, he wouldn't want it. Me, on the other hand cannot reax until I have eaten it. Full or not. So, I have come to the conclusion that my brain is wired differently to my husbands. So many times he says 'No I don't want it. I'm not hungry'. That never happens to me. I crave it until I get it.
I have, by the way, lost over 30lbs but it has been very hard work and if my guard is down I slip back occasionally.
^^ Yes, exactly yes!!! I am the same way. I have been EXTREMELY successful with losing weight, and even mostly maintaining (wt goes up/down 5-10lbs and I'm ok with that). But I always want whatever it is ... whatever is so enticing. Full or not.3 -
I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
^^ simply saying it's a lack of education is also grossly incorrect. IMO. Trust me, I'm educated. Very much so in nutritional, exercise etc. But doesn't make it any easier to control that "excessive eating." Not in the slightest. I think unless you've REALLY had an issue with food? It's perhaps easier to say "that person is simply not educated" when in fact, that might only be a sliver of the issue.
knowing how to lose weight (which I don't think a lot know really how to do it) and applying it are two different things.
and my question is this how many people "REALLY" have an issue with food? or is it other issues like self esteem or mental disorder?2 -
but they are...I can't tell you about everyone else but I'll tell you what goes on with me.
For me, not all calories from all foods are equal. What I get out of a hardboiled egg is much different than a piece of toast with peanut butter, and I don't mean just the basic nutritional value of it. What comes with that toast is the "need" or "strong urge" to have more. I'll eat one piece and want another. I might be ok after that, but in a couple hours I'll want some other fix from a bowl of cereal or something.
And I mean, why not right? We see it all the time on TV. "Part of a balanced breakfast!" Pictured a huge glass of orange juice, a giant bowl of cereal and two pieces of toast. So we see it constantly on TV and think, ok, that's what I should be eating.
Well.. for me, that's wrong. That glass of OJ will cause massive sugar cravings and will actually make me more hungry than before I even drank it. I could easily eat two bowls of cereal and my mind will still think, we should have fruit too.
But - if I eat something else, like eggs with bacon, I'm good until the afternoon. If I eat a baked chicken breast with broccoli and butter, I'm full and don't feel the need to get anything else. I don't have that switch, that craving to tell me to get more.
It's not just "putting down the fork". It's re-evaluating what you're eating and the patterns foods and cravings have on you.
How you feel after you eat them might not be the same as other people but you know what it sort of it.
We all know protein and fats keep you feeling fuller longer because of the length of time to digest them...
Carbs/startches not so much so chances are you will be hungrier if you just eat those for a meal.
For me if I eat an apple when I am hungry...yah forget that...I am even more hungry in about 10 mins so I go for the yogurt...
so it's not really a "craving" per say...it's your body digesting carbs faster than protein..totally normal.
4 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I really don't find it particularly surprising that people overeat and gain weight, and I certainly don't think it's contrary to CICO in any way. Nor do I think it makes "put down the fork" bad advice, although I know it can be challenging for lots of reasons.
We evolved in circumstances in which not having enough food was an issue and surplus food was not, and where we were required to be active. Throughout human history (until quite recently) activity was necessary and scarcity was the main concern, and on top of that all cultures had customs and rituals that regulated eating in some way (similar to how other basic urges, like sex, are regulated by culture). It was beneficial for humans, also, to be able to eat when food was available and go without when not, such that we can adapt to not eating/eating little for a period of time (periods of scarcity) and eat more than we need immediately when food is available. As a result, the assumption by some that a healthy human won't eat more than maintenance naturally is questionable -- why would we have evolved to prevent something that was not an issue? It's amazing how out bodies adapt to keep an equilibrium as is.
So given all that, put us in a situation of abundance, with food around at all times that we don't even have to prepare ourselves if we don't want to, a culture that says "eat whenever you feel like it, and for pure pleasure, not for hunger or according to overarching culture," I think it's completely unsurprising that many people overeat and gain weight. It's normal for humans to feel desire to eat tasty and available food when it is present and therefore in the mind. Not everyone feels that way, but that it's common, not surprising.
Add to this that many humans are bad with short term vs. long term tradeoffs -- yeah, overeating will keep you fat and eating less will allow for lost weight, but that will take a long time and it's easy to think one day or one meal won't matter and keep repeating that. And that's even before taking into account how easy it is to use any form of pleasure in a distorted or misplaced way, the power of habit, cultural associations with food (reminds me of a happy occasion or some such), and before worrying about actual messed up relationships with food and weight (which I think often feed into a cycle).
A human with a healthy appetite won't eat more than the body needs though even with abundant, delicious food available.
I'm not sure I am following your argument, but reality disproves this -- a majority of people do when food is abundant and cheap, as currently.
Overfeeding studies involve people who are not overweight, but you can't claim only those people are "healthy."I believe our mores around food evolved to protect the appetite - not to prevent overeating per se. Feasting, eating until full, "making room" for dessert are the exact opposite of not overeating and they were all part of a healthy eating pattern.
I don't think they evolved to avoid overeating (as that was not much of a problem until recently except among a small subset), but they operated to do so. One reason I didn't gain weight or think much about food between meals when growing up -- no matter what I ate -- was that you ate at mealtime. Even after I gained weight I took a trip to Nicaragua where we were doing lots of physical activity and busy all day and had no opportunities to eat except at regular meals (which were high carb/low protein compared to how I ate back home). I never thought about food, again, except at meals and ate smaller portions than at home (eating with other people when fat does this sometimes), and wasn't hungry at all. I think it was that food just wasn't available otherwise.If you truly overeat at one meal you naturally eat less at another and it all balances out. Providing you have a normal appetite.
Again, this is contrary to reality, as a majority of people seem to eat above maintenance sufficiently to become overweight.
My argument is simply that eating to the point of obesity is not normal or natural in those with a healthy, normal appetite regardless of the food environment.
First, we are talking about eating above maintenance (overweight and obese, not just obese). How are you defining "normal and natural"? If a majority of people do it, it seems to be normal and natural, IMO.5 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I really don't find it particularly surprising that people overeat and gain weight, and I certainly don't think it's contrary to CICO in any way. Nor do I think it makes "put down the fork" bad advice, although I know it can be challenging for lots of reasons.
We evolved in circumstances in which not having enough food was an issue and surplus food was not, and where we were required to be active. Throughout human history (until quite recently) activity was necessary and scarcity was the main concern, and on top of that all cultures had customs and rituals that regulated eating in some way (similar to how other basic urges, like sex, are regulated by culture). It was beneficial for humans, also, to be able to eat when food was available and go without when not, such that we can adapt to not eating/eating little for a period of time (periods of scarcity) and eat more than we need immediately when food is available. As a result, the assumption by some that a healthy human won't eat more than maintenance naturally is questionable -- why would we have evolved to prevent something that was not an issue? It's amazing how out bodies adapt to keep an equilibrium as is.
So given all that, put us in a situation of abundance, with food around at all times that we don't even have to prepare ourselves if we don't want to, a culture that says "eat whenever you feel like it, and for pure pleasure, not for hunger or according to overarching culture," I think it's completely unsurprising that many people overeat and gain weight. It's normal for humans to feel desire to eat tasty and available food when it is present and therefore in the mind. Not everyone feels that way, but that it's common, not surprising.
Add to this that many humans are bad with short term vs. long term tradeoffs -- yeah, overeating will keep you fat and eating less will allow for lost weight, but that will take a long time and it's easy to think one day or one meal won't matter and keep repeating that. And that's even before taking into account how easy it is to use any form of pleasure in a distorted or misplaced way, the power of habit, cultural associations with food (reminds me of a happy occasion or some such), and before worrying about actual messed up relationships with food and weight (which I think often feed into a cycle).
A human with a healthy appetite won't eat more than the body needs though even with abundant, delicious food available.
I'm not sure I am following your argument, but reality disproves this -- a majority of people do when food is abundant and cheap, as currently.
Overfeeding studies involve people who are not overweight, but you can't claim only those people are "healthy."I believe our mores around food evolved to protect the appetite - not to prevent overeating per se. Feasting, eating until full, "making room" for dessert are the exact opposite of not overeating and they were all part of a healthy eating pattern.
I don't think they evolved to avoid overeating (as that was not much of a problem until recently except among a small subset), but they operated to do so. One reason I didn't gain weight or think much about food between meals when growing up -- no matter what I ate -- was that you ate at mealtime. Even after I gained weight I took a trip to Nicaragua where we were doing lots of physical activity and busy all day and had no opportunities to eat except at regular meals (which were high carb/low protein compared to how I ate back home). I never thought about food, again, except at meals and ate smaller portions than at home (eating with other people when fat does this sometimes), and wasn't hungry at all. I think it was that food just wasn't available otherwise.If you truly overeat at one meal you naturally eat less at another and it all balances out. Providing you have a normal appetite.
Again, this is contrary to reality, as a majority of people seem to eat above maintenance sufficiently to become overweight.
My argument is simply that eating to the point of obesity is not normal or natural in those with a healthy, normal appetite regardless of the food environment.
How are you defining "normal and natural"? If a majority of people do it, it seems to be normal and natural, IMO.
That would be common to my mind, not normal. In other words, working as intended.0
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