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Why do people overeat and/or become obese? Is it harder than average for some to lose weight?
Replies
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Hmmmm. I'll disengage with this back and forth with you because it's obvious that you don't relate. That's fine.5 -
Even white flour specifically, still complex carb.
Glucose, Fructose, galactose - monosaccharides = "simple carbs"
Table sugar, lactose, maltose - disaccharides, not as simple anymore but usually still lumped together with them
Starch, Fiber, glycogen - polysaccharides = "Complex carbs"
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Hmmmm. I'll disengage with this back and forth with you because it's obvious that you don't relate. That's fine.
and maybe it's due to personal experience and/or history of addiction that makes me feel the way I do...0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Hmmmm. I'll disengage with this back and forth with you because it's obvious that you don't relate. That's fine.
and maybe it's due to personal experience and/or history of addiction that makes me feel the way I do...
I don't have a history of addiction. I rarely take any medications. I don't have any presciptions from a doctor nor do I take over the counter medications unless I have a cold or a bad headache. But I rarely get headaches. I drink a couple cups of coffee a day.0 -
Perhaps the sugar sensitivity isn't addiction. Point taken.2
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stevencloser wrote: »Even white flour specifically, still complex carb.
Glucose, Fructose, galactose - monosaccharides = "simple carbs"
Table sugar, lactose, maltose - disaccharides, not as simple anymore but usually still lumped together with them
Starch, Fiber, glycogen - polysaccharides = "Complex carbs"
Thanks.0 -
I think this is interesting:
Naltrexone is one of the medications currently being prescribed by doctors who help people lose weight. It is prescribed either alone or in combination with other drugs to help control food cravings.
It was initially used in treatment for opioid dependence and later in treatment of alcohol use disorders. Naltrexone appears to reduce craving in people who are alcohol dependent, thus enhancing the ability of patients to abstain from drinking. Naltrexone also appears to reduce pleasure from drinking alcohol, which may reduce the amount of heavy drinking in those who continue to drink.
Naltrexone also appears to similarly reduce food cravings and pleasure from eating. Not everyone would want the pleasure from eating reduced, but naltrexone does have promise for certain patients. It may reduce the tendency to overeat, just as it reduces the amount of heavy drinking in people with an alcohol use disorder who continue to drink.5 -
stevencloser wrote: »Even white flour specifically, still complex carb.
Glucose, Fructose, galactose - monosaccharides = "simple carbs"
Table sugar, lactose, maltose - disaccharides, not as simple anymore but usually still lumped together with them
Starch, Fiber, glycogen - polysaccharides = "Complex carbs"
I find I react to white flour products in isolation but can consume them with protein and fiber and be okay.1 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »I think this is interesting:
Naltrexone is one of the medications currently being prescribed by doctors who help people lose weight. It is prescribed either alone or in combination with other drugs to help control food cravings.
It was initially used in treatment for opioid dependence and later in treatment of alcohol use disorders. Naltrexone appears to reduce craving in people who are alcohol dependent, thus enhancing the ability of patients to abstain from drinking. Naltrexone also appears to reduce pleasure from drinking alcohol, which may reduce the amount of heavy drinking in those who continue to drink.
Naltrexone also appears to similarly reduce food cravings and pleasure from eating. Not everyone would want the pleasure from eating reduced, but naltrexone does have promise for certain patients. It may reduce the tendency to overeat, just as it reduces the amount of heavy drinking in people with an alcohol use disorder who continue to drink.
yes same thing was applied to champix...depressive medication and people noticed they didn't want to smoke...interesting how one med is designed for X but then it's found to applied for something totally different.
I would never want the pleasure from food taken away...it's one of my great joys...1 -
@SezxyStef I am chuckling. I didn't know what Champix was so I looked it up...Chantix is the name I know it by, for smoking cessation?0
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Looking only at CICO, would be like on looking at final scores in sports to figure out why one team does better than another one does.
How long would a coach or manager last only saying, "score more goals than the opposing team"?
The body can turn 100 calories of sugar into more fat than with 100 calories of protein.
Resistence training increases the calories burned during rest for hours after the training is finished.
Those two things alone pretty much invalidate pure CICO thinking.
And the there is metabolic syndrome.4 -
iamstephenolan wrote: »Looking only at CICO, would be like on looking at final scores in sports to figure out why one team does better than another one does.
How long would a coach or manager last only saying, "score more goals than the opposing team"?
The body can turn 100 calories of sugar into more fat than with 100 calories of protein.
Resistence training increases the calories burned during rest for hours after the training is finished.
Those two things alone pretty much invalidate pure CICO thinking.
And the there is metabolic syndrome.
The first thing is incorrect and the second one negligible. So no.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Am I reading this right? Does this say cigarettes aren't addictive?4 -
From the American Society of Addiction Medicine:
"Is there a difference between physical dependence and addiction?
Yes. Addiction—or compulsive drug use despite harmful consequences—is characterized by an inability to stop using a drug; failure to meet work, social, or family obligations; and, sometimes (depending on the drug), tolerance and withdrawal. The latter reflect physical dependence in which the body adapts to the drug, requiring more of it to achieve a certain effect (tolerance) and eliciting drug-specific physical or mental symptoms if drug use is abruptly ceased (withdrawal). Physical dependence can happen with the chronic use of many drugs—including many prescription drugs, even if taken as instructed. Thus, physical dependence in and of itself does not constitute addiction, but it often accompanies addiction. This distinction can be dificult to discern, particularly with prescribed pain medications, for which the need for increasing dosages can represent tolerance or a worsening underlying problem, as opposed to the beginning of abuse or addiction."1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Am I reading this right? Does this say cigarettes aren't addictive?
It took 51 years (starting at 13 years old) for my dad to finally get free from cigarette smoking. He would try many times to quit over the years.0 -
If it doesn't leave you homeless and turning tricks for a fix it's not addictive. You just like it a lot. Like petting puppies.5
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Am I reading this right? Does this say cigarettes aren't addictive?
No they are addictive but not in the same sense that most believe. And it is not always the nicotine that brings a smoker back. Nicotine is out of your body in 72 hours after you stop smoking so the question remains what makes an ex smoker go back? Habits mainly emotional and mental. I use an ecig still with no nicotine...to prevent me from going back...0 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »@SezxyStef I am chuckling. I didn't know what Champix was so I looked it up...Chantix is the name I know it by, for smoking cessation?
Yes...US vs Canada1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Am I reading this right? Does this say cigarettes aren't addictive?
No they are addictive but not in the same sense that most believe. And it is not always the nicotine that brings a smoker back. Nicotine is out of your body in 72 hours after you stop smoking so the question remains what makes an ex smoker go back? Habits mainly emotional and mental. I use an ecig still with no nicotine...to prevent me from going back...
That may be your experience, but it isn't an accurate depiction of smoking addiction. Obviously habit plays a role, but it's the effect of nicotine and monoamine oxidase inhibitors on neurotransmitter function that make smoking addictive (in those for whom it is; there will always be those who aren't as susceptible.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2928221/
A smoking habit and cigarette addiction are not the same thing.
Addicts usually go back because they believe they can have just one cigarette (or smoke for a short time) and then stop again, but once the acetylcholine receptors are saturated, the compulsion returns full force.
4 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Am I reading this right? Does this say cigarettes aren't addictive?
No they are addictive but not in the same sense that most believe. And it is not always the nicotine that brings a smoker back. Nicotine is out of your body in 72 hours after you stop smoking so the question remains what makes an ex smoker go back? Habits mainly emotional and mental. I use an ecig still with no nicotine...to prevent me from going back...
That may be your experience, but it isn't an accurate depiction of smoking addiction. Obviously habit plays a role, but it's the effect of nicotine and monoamine oxidase inhibitors on neurotransmitter function that make smoking addictive (in those for whom it is; there will always be those who aren't as susceptible.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2928221/
A smoking habit and cigarette addiction are not the same thing.
Addicts usually go back because they believe they can have just one cigarette (or smoke for a short time) and then stop again, but once the acetylcholine receptors are saturated, the compulsion returns full force.
It is accurate actually if you look at the stats of people using ecigs to get to 0 nicotine and stop using the ecigs they go back to smoking where as those who continue with the ecigs don't start smoking again.
I've smoked for over 20 years and quit numerous times and this is the longest I've quit and don't expect to return to smoking ever but who knows0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Am I reading this right? Does this say cigarettes aren't addictive?
No they are addictive but not in the same sense that most believe. And it is not always the nicotine that brings a smoker back. Nicotine is out of your body in 72 hours after you stop smoking so the question remains what makes an ex smoker go back? Habits mainly emotional and mental. I use an ecig still with no nicotine...to prevent me from going back...
That may be your experience, but it isn't an accurate depiction of smoking addiction. Obviously habit plays a role, but it's the effect of nicotine and monoamine oxidase inhibitors on neurotransmitter function that make smoking addictive (in those for whom it is; there will always be those who aren't as susceptible.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2928221/
A smoking habit and cigarette addiction are not the same thing.
Addicts usually go back because they believe they can have just one cigarette (or smoke for a short time) and then stop again, but once the acetylcholine receptors are saturated, the compulsion returns full force.
It is accurate actually if you look at the stats of people using ecigs to get to 0 nicotine and stop using the ecigs they go back to smoking where as those who continue with the ecigs don't start smoking again.
I've smoked for over 20 years and quit numerous times and this is the longest I've quit and don't expect to return to smoking ever but who knows
My dad is 78 years old, quit 14 years ago and never went back after this final time.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Am I reading this right? Does this say cigarettes aren't addictive?
No they are addictive but not in the same sense that most believe. And it is not always the nicotine that brings a smoker back. Nicotine is out of your body in 72 hours after you stop smoking so the question remains what makes an ex smoker go back? Habits mainly emotional and mental. I use an ecig still with no nicotine...to prevent me from going back...
That may be your experience, but it isn't an accurate depiction of smoking addiction. Obviously habit plays a role, but it's the effect of nicotine and monoamine oxidase inhibitors on neurotransmitter function that make smoking addictive (in those for whom it is; there will always be those who aren't as susceptible.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2928221/
A smoking habit and cigarette addiction are not the same thing.
Addicts usually go back because they believe they can have just one cigarette (or smoke for a short time) and then stop again, but once the acetylcholine receptors are saturated, the compulsion returns full force.
It is accurate actually if you look at the stats of people using ecigs to get to 0 nicotine and stop using the ecigs they go back to smoking where as those who continue with the ecigs don't start smoking again.
I've smoked for over 20 years and quit numerous times and this is the longest I've quit and don't expect to return to smoking ever but who knows
It wasn't my intention to disparage e-cigarettes, and I apologize if I gave that impression.
My point was that the habit aspect is only one issue in cigarette addiction, and that there are biological forces behind nicotine/tobacco addiction.
Congrats on quitting btw. I'm at just over 3 years, after 24 years of smoking. What helps me stay quit is realizing that I can't have just one cigarette. It's zero, or I'm right back to where I started. I've been down that road too many times.3 -
I smoked for a time in my youth but never craved a cigarette & didn't look back when I decided to stop smoking.
My son had to take heavy duty pain medicines after a serious accident and as his pain lessened, he tapered off & really did not have any problem discontinuing the medicine even though he took high doses for several weeks.
A friend used hydrocodone once and craved it from that day forward and almost lost his job twice over using. It made him feel brave & euphoric. Most people feel tired & foggy on hydrocodone.
My dad never did completely give up cigarettes, my mom put them down and never wanted another.
Our brains, reward centers, biochemical makeups, whatever, are certainly not all the same.6 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »MakePeasNotWar wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Am I reading this right? Does this say cigarettes aren't addictive?
No they are addictive but not in the same sense that most believe. And it is not always the nicotine that brings a smoker back. Nicotine is out of your body in 72 hours after you stop smoking so the question remains what makes an ex smoker go back? Habits mainly emotional and mental. I use an ecig still with no nicotine...to prevent me from going back...
That may be your experience, but it isn't an accurate depiction of smoking addiction. Obviously habit plays a role, but it's the effect of nicotine and monoamine oxidase inhibitors on neurotransmitter function that make smoking addictive (in those for whom it is; there will always be those who aren't as susceptible.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2928221/
A smoking habit and cigarette addiction are not the same thing.
Addicts usually go back because they believe they can have just one cigarette (or smoke for a short time) and then stop again, but once the acetylcholine receptors are saturated, the compulsion returns full force.
It is accurate actually if you look at the stats of people using ecigs to get to 0 nicotine and stop using the ecigs they go back to smoking where as those who continue with the ecigs don't start smoking again.
I've smoked for over 20 years and quit numerous times and this is the longest I've quit and don't expect to return to smoking ever but who knows
It wasn't my intention to disparage e-cigarettes, and I apologize if I gave that impression.
My point was that the habit aspect is only one issue in cigarette addiction, and that there are biological forces behind nicotine/tobacco addiction.
Congrats on quitting btw. I'm at just over 3 years, after 24 years of smoking. What helps me stay quit is realizing that I can't have just one cigarette. It's zero, or I'm right back to where I started. I've been down that road too many times.
no I didn't read it like that at all..
I've just have just seen so many people and talked to so many ex smokers who have cravings even after 20 years of no smoking...so it's not the physical addiction that does it...
it's something else and I think that we can equate this sort of thing to those who crave certain foods so much...
0 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »I smoked for a time in my youth but never craved a cigarette & didn't look back when I decided to stop smoking.
My son had to take heavy duty pain medicines after a serious accident and as his pain lessened, he tapered off & really did not have any problem discontinuing the medicine even though he took high doses for several weeks.
A friend used hydrocodone once and craved it from that day forward and almost lost his job twice over using. It made him feel brave & euphoric. Most people feel tired & foggy on hydrocodone.
My dad never did completely give up cigarettes, my mom put them down and never wanted another.
Our brains, reward centers, biochemical makeups, whatever, are certainly not all the same.
true that...what's funny with me is as a former "addict" and giving up something (just speaking about cigs here) the though of having one now makes me want to vomit...any other time I had quit...I craved them at certain times...like getting into a car to drive..with coffee...with a beer and so I eventually started again...
so given this I can concede that people can react differently to certain types of food due to brain chemistry...but I still won't agree that it's addiction...and if they can find a healthy substitute (like I did) for that food perhaps they could lose the weight.0 -
@SezxyStef Congrats on giving up cigarettes, a very difficult thing for many people to do. It also intrigues me that some people start exercising and become very devoted to their workouts when they quit smoking or drinking. I think endorphins maybe have something to do with it.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
I made a suggestion which you did not respond to (which is, of course, your decision).
Sugar is sugar -- if you have issues with sugary treats with sugar plus fat (or carbs plus fat like Ritz) and not fruit (which is basically sugar + fiber), I don't get how it's physically sugar.
However, back to the point, I get they cause cravings in some people, as I said (although I think it's trigger foods not "sugar" or "carbs"), I get that fiber or protein is more sating for most (me too), I get that habits make certain foods hard to stop eating (the foods that we eat recreationally). No one has disagreed with Bill on these issues, which you implied they had. That's what I was questioning.
I do think the term "addiction" is wrong, and suspect other motives for its use, but I agree that it's best not to debate it in this thread.0 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »I smoked for a time in my youth but never craved a cigarette & didn't look back when I decided to stop smoking.
My son had to take heavy duty pain medicines after a serious accident and as his pain lessened, he tapered off & really did not have any problem discontinuing the medicine even though he took high doses for several weeks.
A friend used hydrocodone once and craved it from that day forward and almost lost his job twice over using. It made him feel brave & euphoric. Most people feel tired & foggy on hydrocodone.
My dad never did completely give up cigarettes, my mom put them down and never wanted another.
Our brains, reward centers, biochemical makeups, whatever, are certainly not all the same.
true that...what's funny with me is as a former "addict" and giving up something (just speaking about cigs here) the though of having one now makes me want to vomit...any other time I had quit...I craved them at certain times...like getting into a car to drive..with coffee...with a beer and so I eventually started again...
so given this I can concede that people can react differently to certain types of food due to brain chemistry...but I still won't agree that it's addiction...and if they can find a healthy substitute (like I did) for that food perhaps they could lose the weight.
So were you addicted to cigarettes or not? Am I understanding you correctly that you consider dependency and addiction as two separate things, but you think that people can become dependent on certain foods but not addicted to them? That would be a new perspective to me and I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on it if so. Also, you don't believe cigarettes lead to dependence, is that correct?
Just asking for clarification.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
I made a suggestion which you did not respond to (which is, of course, your decision).
Sugar is sugar -- if you have issues with sugary treats with sugar plus fat (or carbs plus fat like Ritz) and not fruit (which is basically sugar + fiber), I don't get how it's physically sugar.
However, back to the point, I get they cause cravings in some people, as I said (although I think it's trigger foods not "sugar" or "carbs"), I get that fiber or protein is more sating for most (me too), I get that habits make certain foods hard to stop eating (the foods that we eat recreationally). No one has disagreed with Bill on these issues, which you implied they had. That's what I was questioning.
I do think the term "addiction" is wrong, and suspect other motives for its use, but I agree that it's best not to debate it in this thread.
I don't think you read along the thread far enough. I conceded that I might not have a sugar "addiction". I have no compulsion to consume it as long as I don't eat it and am not a binge eater. However, I do have a physiological response/craving afterward if i start eating sugar. And when I was eating sugar on a regular basis and stopped I had withdrawal symptoms. I do not believe everyone experiences it.
Anyhow, for you, and in order not to ruffle feathers of others who dislike the term used in the instance of food, I will not use it. I will call it "sugar sensitivity" or "craving". I had seen the term "sugar addiction" on the cover of various books and articles over the past years and had thought that it was a real phenomenon.
I'm surprised that more people can't relate. Perhaps I'm an anomaly and my experience with sugar only represents a small percentage of the population?3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Sugar is sugar -- if you have issues with sugary treats with sugar plus fat (or carbs plus fat like Ritz) and not fruit (which is basically sugar + fiber), I don't get how it's physically sugar.lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
However, back to the point, I get they cause cravings in some people, as I said (although I think it's trigger foods not "sugar" or "carbs"), I get that fiber or protein is more sating for most (me too), I get that habits make certain foods hard to stop eating (the foods that we eat recreationally).
I do have issues with fruit juice. For instance I have to stay away from unsweetened OJ or I will drink several glasses of it. I used to drink 100% juice drinks and could consume several glasses. I stopped because it adds too many calories and has a lot of fructose/fruit sugar. I have trouble with apple juice as well. Perhaps the fiber in whole fruit is enough to take the edge off or the fact that I normally eat fruit with Greek yogurt or in a complete meal including protein is why I tolerate it better.
Your hypothesis that my issue could be carb with fat is an acceptable one. I have read that it is best to go low fat with high carb and high fat with low carb diets, but I have not done extensive research so it may or may not be true.
I have found that things like ice cream (high carb high fat) are an issue for me and create cravings that I do not want to deal with soon after I consume them. Once you pointed it out the fat in Ritz crackers, I agree that fat+carbs could be a contributing factor. {{Thank you}}
My other favorites that I stay away from are fudge, cookies, and potato chips, Cheetos, and nacho chips which all are high carb + high fat. I stay away from high fat donuts also. You have helped me identify the "why" for my cravings.1
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