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Why do people overeat and/or become obese? Is it harder than average for some to lose weight?
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MakePeasNotWar wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Am I reading this right? Does this say cigarettes aren't addictive?
No they are addictive but not in the same sense that most believe. And it is not always the nicotine that brings a smoker back. Nicotine is out of your body in 72 hours after you stop smoking so the question remains what makes an ex smoker go back? Habits mainly emotional and mental. I use an ecig still with no nicotine...to prevent me from going back...
That may be your experience, but it isn't an accurate depiction of smoking addiction. Obviously habit plays a role, but it's the effect of nicotine and monoamine oxidase inhibitors on neurotransmitter function that make smoking addictive (in those for whom it is; there will always be those who aren't as susceptible.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2928221/
A smoking habit and cigarette addiction are not the same thing.
Addicts usually go back because they believe they can have just one cigarette (or smoke for a short time) and then stop again, but once the acetylcholine receptors are saturated, the compulsion returns full force.
It is accurate actually if you look at the stats of people using ecigs to get to 0 nicotine and stop using the ecigs they go back to smoking where as those who continue with the ecigs don't start smoking again.
I've smoked for over 20 years and quit numerous times and this is the longest I've quit and don't expect to return to smoking ever but who knows
My dad is 78 years old, quit 14 years ago and never went back after this final time.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Am I reading this right? Does this say cigarettes aren't addictive?
No they are addictive but not in the same sense that most believe. And it is not always the nicotine that brings a smoker back. Nicotine is out of your body in 72 hours after you stop smoking so the question remains what makes an ex smoker go back? Habits mainly emotional and mental. I use an ecig still with no nicotine...to prevent me from going back...
That may be your experience, but it isn't an accurate depiction of smoking addiction. Obviously habit plays a role, but it's the effect of nicotine and monoamine oxidase inhibitors on neurotransmitter function that make smoking addictive (in those for whom it is; there will always be those who aren't as susceptible.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2928221/
A smoking habit and cigarette addiction are not the same thing.
Addicts usually go back because they believe they can have just one cigarette (or smoke for a short time) and then stop again, but once the acetylcholine receptors are saturated, the compulsion returns full force.
It is accurate actually if you look at the stats of people using ecigs to get to 0 nicotine and stop using the ecigs they go back to smoking where as those who continue with the ecigs don't start smoking again.
I've smoked for over 20 years and quit numerous times and this is the longest I've quit and don't expect to return to smoking ever but who knows
It wasn't my intention to disparage e-cigarettes, and I apologize if I gave that impression.
My point was that the habit aspect is only one issue in cigarette addiction, and that there are biological forces behind nicotine/tobacco addiction.
Congrats on quitting btw. I'm at just over 3 years, after 24 years of smoking. What helps me stay quit is realizing that I can't have just one cigarette. It's zero, or I'm right back to where I started. I've been down that road too many times.3 -
I smoked for a time in my youth but never craved a cigarette & didn't look back when I decided to stop smoking.
My son had to take heavy duty pain medicines after a serious accident and as his pain lessened, he tapered off & really did not have any problem discontinuing the medicine even though he took high doses for several weeks.
A friend used hydrocodone once and craved it from that day forward and almost lost his job twice over using. It made him feel brave & euphoric. Most people feel tired & foggy on hydrocodone.
My dad never did completely give up cigarettes, my mom put them down and never wanted another.
Our brains, reward centers, biochemical makeups, whatever, are certainly not all the same.6 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »MakePeasNotWar wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
why does it have to be stronger than Crave...so what if it was said we all get cravings...we do.
I crave salt some days like no one's business...I crave beef and I have to eat it (I assume my iron is getting low)...or that's all I think about.
Cravings are real and valid...so what is wrong with that term?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with the word addiction either. Addiction is a real and valid word also. They are just words. I think that you mentioned that in your opinion you don't believe people can become addicted to certain foods. I disagree because I am addicted to sugar, IMO. I don't understand all the touchiness regarding this subject. If someone told me that they are addicted to cigarettes, then I wouldn't say I don't believe people really can get addicted to them and tell them to call it "craving cigarettes" instead. I think you have an idea that an addiction has to be uncontrollable and at the point of destroying lives which isn't so.
Totally up to you...if you want to run around these boards saying you are an addict go ahead...
I said I don't believe that people can be addicted to food...esp those who say carb or sugar...why because those people give up certain types of carbs but eat others or give up one type of sugar but eat other types...as I suspect you still have milk and fruit in your diet.
and as an ex smoker yes it was a craving for that smoke...a physical dependency on something is different than being an addict. And since the advent of E cigs they have done studies on the addictive properties of nicotine and found that it was difficult to get mice addicted to just nicotine...it's more of a mental/emotional thing that smokers get into...habits when they smoke etc....because if it was the actual cigarette they were addicted to...there would be no cravings after the chemicals were out of the body but there are.
dependency, habit forming, cravings but not addiction.
Am I reading this right? Does this say cigarettes aren't addictive?
No they are addictive but not in the same sense that most believe. And it is not always the nicotine that brings a smoker back. Nicotine is out of your body in 72 hours after you stop smoking so the question remains what makes an ex smoker go back? Habits mainly emotional and mental. I use an ecig still with no nicotine...to prevent me from going back...
That may be your experience, but it isn't an accurate depiction of smoking addiction. Obviously habit plays a role, but it's the effect of nicotine and monoamine oxidase inhibitors on neurotransmitter function that make smoking addictive (in those for whom it is; there will always be those who aren't as susceptible.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2928221/
A smoking habit and cigarette addiction are not the same thing.
Addicts usually go back because they believe they can have just one cigarette (or smoke for a short time) and then stop again, but once the acetylcholine receptors are saturated, the compulsion returns full force.
It is accurate actually if you look at the stats of people using ecigs to get to 0 nicotine and stop using the ecigs they go back to smoking where as those who continue with the ecigs don't start smoking again.
I've smoked for over 20 years and quit numerous times and this is the longest I've quit and don't expect to return to smoking ever but who knows
It wasn't my intention to disparage e-cigarettes, and I apologize if I gave that impression.
My point was that the habit aspect is only one issue in cigarette addiction, and that there are biological forces behind nicotine/tobacco addiction.
Congrats on quitting btw. I'm at just over 3 years, after 24 years of smoking. What helps me stay quit is realizing that I can't have just one cigarette. It's zero, or I'm right back to where I started. I've been down that road too many times.
no I didn't read it like that at all..
I've just have just seen so many people and talked to so many ex smokers who have cravings even after 20 years of no smoking...so it's not the physical addiction that does it...
it's something else and I think that we can equate this sort of thing to those who crave certain foods so much...
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KetoneKaren wrote: »I smoked for a time in my youth but never craved a cigarette & didn't look back when I decided to stop smoking.
My son had to take heavy duty pain medicines after a serious accident and as his pain lessened, he tapered off & really did not have any problem discontinuing the medicine even though he took high doses for several weeks.
A friend used hydrocodone once and craved it from that day forward and almost lost his job twice over using. It made him feel brave & euphoric. Most people feel tired & foggy on hydrocodone.
My dad never did completely give up cigarettes, my mom put them down and never wanted another.
Our brains, reward centers, biochemical makeups, whatever, are certainly not all the same.
true that...what's funny with me is as a former "addict" and giving up something (just speaking about cigs here) the though of having one now makes me want to vomit...any other time I had quit...I craved them at certain times...like getting into a car to drive..with coffee...with a beer and so I eventually started again...
so given this I can concede that people can react differently to certain types of food due to brain chemistry...but I still won't agree that it's addiction...and if they can find a healthy substitute (like I did) for that food perhaps they could lose the weight.0 -
@SezxyStef Congrats on giving up cigarettes, a very difficult thing for many people to do. It also intrigues me that some people start exercising and become very devoted to their workouts when they quit smoking or drinking. I think endorphins maybe have something to do with it.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
I made a suggestion which you did not respond to (which is, of course, your decision).
Sugar is sugar -- if you have issues with sugary treats with sugar plus fat (or carbs plus fat like Ritz) and not fruit (which is basically sugar + fiber), I don't get how it's physically sugar.
However, back to the point, I get they cause cravings in some people, as I said (although I think it's trigger foods not "sugar" or "carbs"), I get that fiber or protein is more sating for most (me too), I get that habits make certain foods hard to stop eating (the foods that we eat recreationally). No one has disagreed with Bill on these issues, which you implied they had. That's what I was questioning.
I do think the term "addiction" is wrong, and suspect other motives for its use, but I agree that it's best not to debate it in this thread.0 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »I smoked for a time in my youth but never craved a cigarette & didn't look back when I decided to stop smoking.
My son had to take heavy duty pain medicines after a serious accident and as his pain lessened, he tapered off & really did not have any problem discontinuing the medicine even though he took high doses for several weeks.
A friend used hydrocodone once and craved it from that day forward and almost lost his job twice over using. It made him feel brave & euphoric. Most people feel tired & foggy on hydrocodone.
My dad never did completely give up cigarettes, my mom put them down and never wanted another.
Our brains, reward centers, biochemical makeups, whatever, are certainly not all the same.
true that...what's funny with me is as a former "addict" and giving up something (just speaking about cigs here) the though of having one now makes me want to vomit...any other time I had quit...I craved them at certain times...like getting into a car to drive..with coffee...with a beer and so I eventually started again...
so given this I can concede that people can react differently to certain types of food due to brain chemistry...but I still won't agree that it's addiction...and if they can find a healthy substitute (like I did) for that food perhaps they could lose the weight.
So were you addicted to cigarettes or not? Am I understanding you correctly that you consider dependency and addiction as two separate things, but you think that people can become dependent on certain foods but not addicted to them? That would be a new perspective to me and I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on it if so. Also, you don't believe cigarettes lead to dependence, is that correct?
Just asking for clarification.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
I made a suggestion which you did not respond to (which is, of course, your decision).
Sugar is sugar -- if you have issues with sugary treats with sugar plus fat (or carbs plus fat like Ritz) and not fruit (which is basically sugar + fiber), I don't get how it's physically sugar.
However, back to the point, I get they cause cravings in some people, as I said (although I think it's trigger foods not "sugar" or "carbs"), I get that fiber or protein is more sating for most (me too), I get that habits make certain foods hard to stop eating (the foods that we eat recreationally). No one has disagreed with Bill on these issues, which you implied they had. That's what I was questioning.
I do think the term "addiction" is wrong, and suspect other motives for its use, but I agree that it's best not to debate it in this thread.
I don't think you read along the thread far enough. I conceded that I might not have a sugar "addiction". I have no compulsion to consume it as long as I don't eat it and am not a binge eater. However, I do have a physiological response/craving afterward if i start eating sugar. And when I was eating sugar on a regular basis and stopped I had withdrawal symptoms. I do not believe everyone experiences it.
Anyhow, for you, and in order not to ruffle feathers of others who dislike the term used in the instance of food, I will not use it. I will call it "sugar sensitivity" or "craving". I had seen the term "sugar addiction" on the cover of various books and articles over the past years and had thought that it was a real phenomenon.
I'm surprised that more people can't relate. Perhaps I'm an anomaly and my experience with sugar only represents a small percentage of the population?3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Sugar is sugar -- if you have issues with sugary treats with sugar plus fat (or carbs plus fat like Ritz) and not fruit (which is basically sugar + fiber), I don't get how it's physically sugar.lemurcat12 wrote: »Secret Eaters is crazy. Some people are in unbelievable denial.Bill mentioned that some people find satiety by not eating certain foods. I was trying to explain this with my description of how sugar consumption and refined flour cause cravings for me soon after eating so I try to avoid them. People overreacted and said various things that I did not mean at all. I explained that I couldn't come up with a term that is stronger than craving but not as "loaded" as an addiction to sugar and white flour.
You didn't respond to my comment on this, but I think it's not uncommon that refined carbs cause cravings (especially in conjunction with fat). I really don't recall people overreacting, except obviously you have a different understanding of what "addiction" means than many of us (which is why I think it's generally not a helpful term)...
I did explain why I used that term. If anyone can come up with a more appropriate word to describe the craving for more sugar when I eat sugar please help me out. If I don't eat sugar for instance I don't start the crave, crash, crave cycle.
However, back to the point, I get they cause cravings in some people, as I said (although I think it's trigger foods not "sugar" or "carbs"), I get that fiber or protein is more sating for most (me too), I get that habits make certain foods hard to stop eating (the foods that we eat recreationally).
I do have issues with fruit juice. For instance I have to stay away from unsweetened OJ or I will drink several glasses of it. I used to drink 100% juice drinks and could consume several glasses. I stopped because it adds too many calories and has a lot of fructose/fruit sugar. I have trouble with apple juice as well. Perhaps the fiber in whole fruit is enough to take the edge off or the fact that I normally eat fruit with Greek yogurt or in a complete meal including protein is why I tolerate it better.
Your hypothesis that my issue could be carb with fat is an acceptable one. I have read that it is best to go low fat with high carb and high fat with low carb diets, but I have not done extensive research so it may or may not be true.
I have found that things like ice cream (high carb high fat) are an issue for me and create cravings that I do not want to deal with soon after I consume them. Once you pointed it out the fat in Ritz crackers, I agree that fat+carbs could be a contributing factor. {{Thank you}}
My other favorites that I stay away from are fudge, cookies, and potato chips, Cheetos, and nacho chips which all are high carb + high fat. I stay away from high fat donuts also. You have helped me identify the "why" for my cravings.1 -
So after 11 pages, has any consensus been reached to those two questions?0
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »So after 11 pages, has any consensus been reached to those two questions?
This seems to be a topic that people are very polar on. If you can answer that question you could solve the overeating and obesity epidemic!1 -
Ha! @EvgeniZyntx Good question. I would like to add that the combination of fat and carb like in french fries or potato chips is an "excitogen" for me so I either stay away or weigh them & eat them after pre-logging them which for some reason works for me. I woke up this morning thinking about this ongoing debate involving semantics. There certainly is something having to to with the pleasure centers of the brain that drives some of us to think about and crave certain foods, and it worsens or becomes more intense if we eat them so that we want them more.
In treating trauma victims, some of the experts talk about PTSD with a big T, like vets who have experienced horrible war tragedies, and PtSD with a little t, like someone whose mother died at a young age unexpectedly and it resulted in startling awake at night and fear of social situations or something that they never get over. It's a similar dilemma. What do you call the lesser condition? It's still real, it has some similarities to the big T condition, and yet it doesn't really fit all the criteria. I think it gets debated so much because we don't have the right terminology. Craving, Hankering, Jonesing, Appetence, Ravenousness, Obsession, Sweet Tooth...Greed, Gluttony...none of these work that well, although I use Craving, Obsession, Sweet Tooth, and Food Thinking. This could be fun...any other terms people want to throw in?3 -
I recently read about this interesting Harvard study that discusses macros.
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/06/when-a-calorie-is-not-just-a-calorie/
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Channeling my best Jim Mora:EvgeniZyntx wrote: »So after 11 pages, has any consensus been reached to those two questions?
“ What’s that? Ah — Consensus? Don’t talk about — Consensus? You kidding me? Consensus? I just hope we can agree on a damned word! "2 -
Channeling my best Jim Mora:EvgeniZyntx wrote: »So after 11 pages, has any consensus been reached to those two questions?
“ What’s that? Ah — Consensus? Don’t talk about — Consensus? You kidding me? Consensus? I just hope we can agree on a damned word! "
If I looked out my window and said, "The sky is blue today where I am" people on here would debate it and say, "No, that can't be. It is raining/cloudy/foggy here. " Another person would say, "You can't call it blue because at sunrise and sunset it has orange and pink." Or in another time zone, "It is still dark outside." This can go on and on.
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KetoneKaren wrote: »I smoked for a time in my youth but never craved a cigarette & didn't look back when I decided to stop smoking.
My son had to take heavy duty pain medicines after a serious accident and as his pain lessened, he tapered off & really did not have any problem discontinuing the medicine even though he took high doses for several weeks.
A friend used hydrocodone once and craved it from that day forward and almost lost his job twice over using. It made him feel brave & euphoric. Most people feel tired & foggy on hydrocodone.
My dad never did completely give up cigarettes, my mom put them down and never wanted another.
Our brains, reward centers, biochemical makeups, whatever, are certainly not all the same.
true that...what's funny with me is as a former "addict" and giving up something (just speaking about cigs here) the though of having one now makes me want to vomit...any other time I had quit...I craved them at certain times...like getting into a car to drive..with coffee...with a beer and so I eventually started again...
so given this I can concede that people can react differently to certain types of food due to brain chemistry...but I still won't agree that it's addiction...and if they can find a healthy substitute (like I did) for that food perhaps they could lose the weight.
So were you addicted to cigarettes or not? Am I understanding you correctly that you consider dependency and addiction as two separate things, but you think that people can become dependent on certain foods but not addicted to them? That would be a new perspective to me and I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on it if so. Also, you don't believe cigarettes lead to dependence, is that correct?
Just asking for clarification.
Yes I was addicted to cigarettes...I believe once the chemicals are gone from your body after you quit that there are habits that still remain that will cause a form of dependency...smokers smoke during stressful times a lot...or with morning coffee and even after not smoking for 20 years (if there isn't something else taking it's place) people crave a smoke...
I do consider dependency and addiction different.
I think that the way people react to foods physically can be different than others...
I think that sometimes with things like food there are habits that are formed and a dependency based on how it makes us feel...food used as comfort will be palatable...probably high in fat and calories...it won't be a salad.
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Channeling my best Jim Mora:EvgeniZyntx wrote: »So after 11 pages, has any consensus been reached to those two questions?
“ What’s that? Ah — Consensus? Don’t talk about — Consensus? You kidding me? Consensus? I just hope we can agree on a damned word! "
if you can answer the two questions as mentioned before you will be rich.
I think it's different for everyone.
There are 4 main reasons I see, and people may have more than one reason and some may not even be food related...where food is used a comfort.
I mentioned them back a ways.
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KetoneKaren wrote: »I smoked for a time in my youth but never craved a cigarette & didn't look back when I decided to stop smoking.
My son had to take heavy duty pain medicines after a serious accident and as his pain lessened, he tapered off & really did not have any problem discontinuing the medicine even though he took high doses for several weeks.
A friend used hydrocodone once and craved it from that day forward and almost lost his job twice over using. It made him feel brave & euphoric. Most people feel tired & foggy on hydrocodone.
My dad never did completely give up cigarettes, my mom put them down and never wanted another.
Our brains, reward centers, biochemical makeups, whatever, are certainly not all the same.
true that...what's funny with me is as a former "addict" and giving up something (just speaking about cigs here) the though of having one now makes me want to vomit...any other time I had quit...I craved them at certain times...like getting into a car to drive..with coffee...with a beer and so I eventually started again...
so given this I can concede that people can react differently to certain types of food due to brain chemistry...but I still won't agree that it's addiction...and if they can find a healthy substitute (like I did) for that food perhaps they could lose the weight.
So were you addicted to cigarettes or not? Am I understanding you correctly that you consider dependency and addiction as two separate things, but you think that people can become dependent on certain foods but not addicted to them? That would be a new perspective to me and I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on it if so. Also, you don't believe cigarettes lead to dependence, is that correct?
Just asking for clarification.
Yes I was addicted to cigarettes...I believe once the chemicals are gone from your body after you quit that there are habits that still remain that will cause a form of dependency...smokers smoke during stressful times a lot...or with morning coffee and even after not smoking for 20 years (if there isn't something else taking it's place) people crave a smoke...
I do consider dependency and addiction different.
I think that the way people react to foods physically can be different than others...
I think that sometimes with things like food there are habits that are formed and a dependency based on how it makes us feel...food used as comfort will be palatable...probably high in fat and calories...it won't be a salad.
I see. That is opposite of the conventional use of the term "dependency". Perhaps that is the root of our disagreement on addiction.
ETA: I pretty much agree with everything elseelse.2 -
(Edited to remove double quote)KetoneKaren wrote: »I smoked for a time in my youth but never craved a cigarette & didn't look back when I decided to stop smoking.
My son had to take heavy duty pain medicines after a serious accident and as his pain lessened, he tapered off & really did not have any problem discontinuing the medicine even though he took high doses for several weeks.
A friend used hydrocodone once and craved it from that day forward and almost lost his job twice over using. It made him feel brave & euphoric. Most people feel tired & foggy on hydrocodone.
My dad never did completely give up cigarettes, my mom put them down and never wanted another.
Our brains, reward centers, biochemical makeups, whatever, are certainly not all the same.
true that...what's funny with me is as a former "addict" and giving up something (just speaking about cigs here) the though of having one now makes me want to vomit...any other time I had quit...I craved them at certain times...like getting into a car to drive..with coffee...with a beer and so I eventually started again...
so given this I can concede that people can react differently to certain types of food due to brain chemistry...but I still won't agree that it's addiction...and if they can find a healthy substitute (like I did) for that food perhaps they could lose the weight.
So were you addicted to cigarettes or not? Am I understanding you correctly that you consider dependency and addiction as two separate things, but you think that people can become dependent on certain foods but not addicted to them? That would be a new perspective to me and I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on it if so. Also, you don't believe cigarettes lead to dependence, is that correct?
Just asking for clarification.
Yes I was addicted to cigarettes...I believe once the chemicals are gone from your body after you quit that there are habits that still remain that will cause a form of dependency...smokers smoke during stressful times a lot...or with morning coffee and even after not smoking for 20 years (if there isn't something else taking it's place) people crave a smoke...
I do consider dependency and addiction different.
I think that the way people react to foods physically can be different than others...
I think that sometimes with things like food there are habits that are formed and a dependency based on how it makes us feel...food used as comfort will be palatable...probably high in fat and calories...it won't be a salad.
I do not believe that once the "chemicals" are gone that addiction is gone. Just because one quits a substance doesn't mean that if one imbibed once again that it wouldn't rear up and become activated. I think that addiction can be dormant until the agent is reintroduced. But I may be wrong. I don't know enough about the subject to be an expert.2
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