Addicted to diet coke.. help :(
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I am one that agrees that that we need to cut sodas of all varieties if we want to feel good. That being said, I have found that if I go to water with fresh squeezed lemon in it daily I do okay. Doing it that way, I didn't seem to have the headaches and general irritability while leaving my dr. pepper. Some people have said that perhaps it is because the lemon in the water helped to detox and flush my body. I don't know. I just know that I was able to leave my good friend, dr. pepper behind by doing it this way. Overall, I feel much, much better. No scientific evidence, just my own testimonial.
You need to change first sentence to ' I need to cut sodas of all varieties to feel good.'
That may be so - what makes people feel good varies.
But, No, we don't all need to do this.
I, for one, drink diet soda and feel just as good with or without it.
But since I like the taste and I sometimes want something other than water,I will continue to drink it.
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paperpudding wrote: »I am one that agrees that that we need to cut sodas of all varieties if we want to feel good. That being said, I have found that if I go to water with fresh squeezed lemon in it daily I do okay. Doing it that way, I didn't seem to have the headaches and general irritability while leaving my dr. pepper. Some people have said that perhaps it is because the lemon in the water helped to detox and flush my body. I don't know. I just know that I was able to leave my good friend, dr. pepper behind by doing it this way. Overall, I feel much, much better. No scientific evidence, just my own testimonial.
You need to change first sentence to ' I need to cut sodas of all varieties to feel good.'
That may be so - what makes people feel good varies.
But, No, we don't all need to do this.
I, for one, drink diet soda and feel just as good with or without it.
But since I like the taste and I sometimes want something other than water,I will continue to drink it.
True this. I actually feel worse without diet soda !0 -
AnabolicMind2011 wrote: »MissJanet55 wrote: »I'm not one to argue on internet forums, but there is a lot of documentation.
This science paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474447/
And this piece on safefood, although this group obviously has a point of view:
http://www.safefood.org.nz/aspartaddict.html
An FDA paper on aspartame toxicity:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt
And many more. There are also pieces saying it is perfectly safe, so pick your poison. But one thing is sure - giving it up is not going to hurt you.
I saw a lot of articles that say it is not harmful also. It is confusing because studies are inconclusive.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/artificial-sweeteners/
So if your confused about the Topic @DebSozo then why do continue to give advice? Why not do your own research( from reputable sources not quick Google searches) and educate yourself before trying to advise others?
The subject is confusing because the FDA allows apartame anyhow despite objections. There are scientists who advise against allowing it into our food and drinks. I believe that people should have informed consent and know what they are ingesting. People should be able to discuss their concerns on discussion boards and forums and research for themselves. If after researching they still want to consume it, then that is their choice. I personally want to know the risks so that I can make my own decisions.0 -
AnabolicMind2011 wrote: »MissJanet55 wrote: »I'm not one to argue on internet forums, but there is a lot of documentation.
This science paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474447/
And this piece on safefood, although this group obviously has a point of view:
http://www.safefood.org.nz/aspartaddict.html
An FDA paper on aspartame toxicity:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt
And many more. There are also pieces saying it is perfectly safe, so pick your poison. But one thing is sure - giving it up is not going to hurt you.
I saw a lot of articles that say it is not harmful also. It is confusing because studies are inconclusive.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/artificial-sweeteners/
So if your confused about the Topic @DebSozo then why do continue to give advice? Why not do your own research( from reputable sources not quick Google searches) and educate yourself before trying to advise others?
The subject is confusing because the FDA allows apartame anyhow despite objections. There are scientists who advise against allowing it into our food and drinks. I believe that people should have informed consent and know what they are ingesting. People should be able to discuss their concerns on discussion boards and forums and research for themselves. If after researching they still want to consume it, then that is their choice. I personally want to know the risks so that I can make my own decisions.
If you are injesting aspartame you are injesting a methylester of a dipeptide, specifically a linkage between aspartate and phenylalanine. The peptide linkage between phenylalanine and aspartate will be broken by the myriad of peptidases and the acidic conditions withn your stomach freeing the methylester of phenylalanine plus the amino acid aspartate. The methyl ester will further hydrolyze from the phenylalanine in the acidic conditions of your stomach to free methanol and phenylalanine, another amino acid. At this point, within your stomach, it is no different than if you had eaten a bite of chicken and a sip of orange juice because you'd get the same amount of phenylalanine, aspartate and methanol from those.
If you want to learn more about what that is then biochemistry and molecular biology textbooks and courses are likely available at your local community college. But if you don't know much about the topic and are "confused" by it then you probably shouldn't be giving people advice.
The FDA is not pulling aspartame off the shelves scientific community does not advise at all that aspartame should be removed from our food and drink, you are getting that from what you are reading on the internet without having the education necessary (no offense) to distinguish between what is true and what is not.
I really don't understand you because on the one hand you talk about how confused you are by it and how you don't understand this or that and how you don't know this and don't know that and don't know if and what the safe level is but then you proceed to draw conclusions and then advice people on the basis of your conclusions. If you don't know enough then perhaps don't give advice on the topic. It just adds to the general confusion and mix of misinformation on the internet when people who frankly don't know what they are talking about talk anyways.
You can find a full review of the field and topic here which I have offered before to get you the full copy of if you are actually interested
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1782867120 -
Aaron, I am confused as to WHY there are conflicting scientific studies. I would advise people to read up on the subject. Do you work for Monsanto or have you ever worked for Searle Pharmaceuticals? I'm beginning to wonder.2
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Or Pfizer?0
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Aaron, I am confused as to WHY there are conflicting scientific studies. I would advise people to read up on the subject. Do you work for Monsanto or have you ever worked for Searle Pharmaceuticals? I'm beginning to wonder.
There really aren't any conflicting studies DebSozo. Could you link me to two "conflicting" studies that show causality to two seperate things? Please, again, understand the difference between demonstrating causality and showing a correlation followed by speculation. Two different groups can speculate two different explanations without there being a "conflict" because they are speculating.
No I do not work for Monsanto or Searle Pharmaceuticals nor have I ever. No I don't work for Pfizer.5 -
Look, this is the metabolic breakdown pathway for aspartame as I described:
This really isn't hard to understand DebSozo. It breaks down into two common amino acids and methanol. How exactly is it "toxic"?
What are these "conflicting studies"
If you actually cared to learn about this you would enroll in a biochemistry class, not read internet websites that reinforce what you choose to believe. Why I get frustrated with conversations like this is it becomes evident you have no interest in actually learning anything about biochemistry, you just want people to give you a thumbs up and tell you you are right when you say what you "believe" based on what you read with no education or training at all related that would allow you to actually interpret what you are reading.22 -
DebSozo...do you actually care what my education is or what I do for a living. Would you actually pay any more or any less attention to me on the basis of what I say? Does it really matter to you?
If you must know. I did 4 years of college at Pomona college, got a bachelors in molecular biology. From that got into the University of Washington Molecular Cellular Biology program but deferred for a year to teach english in Prague and travel. After that came back and did my graduate work between the labs of Barry Stoddard, a protein crystallographer, and David Baker, a computational protein engineering group. I graduated with my Ph.D. after 5 years along with two publications on protein engineering including one in Science that later got picked up by a company Tocagen and developed into a cancer therapy that is currently in clinical trials for glioblastoma.
After my graduate work I joined the Infectious Disease Reasearch Institute in Seattle as a postdoc. IDRI is a non-profit dedicated to the development of therapeutics and diagnostics for diseases that largely affect the third world. I joined the drug discovery group there developing drugs to treat tuberculosis. I published on my discoveries related to the tuberculosis cell wall and after several years I was promoted to Scientist moving on to a more managerial role in the highthroughput screening group there ever since. We've been doing some good work and have some candidates in both Lead optimization and pre-candidacy. The hope is to do combination therapy with multiple drugs or couple it with the vaccine another group within our institute is developing. In total I've had about 15 years of laboratory research experience in molecular biology, biochemistry and microbiology.
....and what does that have anything to do with what I am telling you about what aspartame is and how it is metabolically broken down in our bodies? You are just looking for a way to disregard what I am telling you rather than deal with it, perhaps there is something in my backstory that will allow you to do that. I did drink a lot when I was in Prague so maybe that'll help.26 -
If you would like to cut down on the diet coke how about trying flavored fizzy water? For me it doesn't taste like water that I also hate and I get my bubble fix! Most are no calorie or 2-3 calories per cup but they tend to have less additives than coke and no caffeine . Worth looking at your local supermarket and trying it x0
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Here is the thing DebSozo. I have no monetary interest in aspartame. I do not care if you injest it or don't. I don't particularly care if I injest it or don't. What I dislike is people spreading misinformation on the internet and advising people on topics they clearly know nothing about. Stop it.
I know what aspartame is not because I care about aspartame but because of my education with molecular biology and biochemistry. I can look at this molecule here:
...see the components of it, see the peptide bond and the ester linkage to the extra methyl group on the phenylalanine carboxyl and understand through my knowledge of chemistry what the labile bonds are and what would happen when it encounters an acidic environment, such as our stomach, filled with peptidases designed specifically to break the linkage between the nitrogen and the carboxyl carbon between the aspartate and phenylalanine resides (the peptide bond). I also know enough about those breakdown products to know what they are and what else has them.
From that knowledge I am sorry but there is no reason at all to be concerned about aspartame. The scientific community does not think there is a reason to be concerned, the FDA doesn't think there is a reason to be concerned, the WHO doesn't think there is a reason to be concerned. Where you are finding all this "conflicting" and "concerning" information is via internet searches that take you to naturalnews.com or wherever that are full of more people who don't know what they are talking about but yet have no qualms spouting off and giving other people advice on a subject they basically don't understand at all (biochemistry).
So no DebSozo, I do not see this "conflict" in the scientific literature. No I do not understand the "concern" you have over this molecule. Frankly I think you enjoy being concerned and like you've done your "research" or something from reading scare pieces on the internet.
If you can explain to me why aspartame is a "toxin" (it isn't literally by the definition of the word toxin), explain how it is toxic and yet chicken and orange juice aren't I am all ears. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and if you are going to claim that a methylester of a dipeptide is causing harm then you better not just bring a correlation, you better show a mechanism by which the harm is caused and then direct causal evidence supporting that mechanism through testing at biologically relevant dosages.
It'd probably be easier though to just find an audience that doesn't know anything about chemistry and just repeat yourself there, see if you can get thanked for your "advice".
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Awesome posts. Thank you, I never realised that aspartame was aminos.Aaron_K123 wrote: »AnabolicMind2011 wrote: »MissJanet55 wrote: »I'm not one to argue on internet forums, but there is a lot of documentation.
This science paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474447/
And this piece on safefood, although this group obviously has a point of view:
http://www.safefood.org.nz/aspartaddict.html
An FDA paper on aspartame toxicity:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt
And many more. There are also pieces saying it is perfectly safe, so pick your poison. But one thing is sure - giving it up is not going to hurt you.
I saw a lot of articles that say it is not harmful also. It is confusing because studies are inconclusive.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/artificial-sweeteners/
So if your confused about the Topic @DebSozo then why do continue to give advice? Why not do your own research( from reputable sources not quick Google searches) and educate yourself before trying to advise others?
The subject is confusing because the FDA allows apartame anyhow despite objections. There are scientists who advise against allowing it into our food and drinks. I believe that people should have informed consent and know what they are ingesting. People should be able to discuss their concerns on discussion boards and forums and research for themselves. If after researching they still want to consume it, then that is their choice. I personally want to know the risks so that I can make my own decisions.
If you are injesting aspartame you are injesting a methylester of a dipeptide, specifically a linkage between aspartate and phenylalanine. The peptide linkage between phenylalanine and aspartate will be broken by the myriad of peptidases and the acidic conditions withn your stomach freeing the methylester of phenylalanine plus the amino acid aspartate. The methyl ester will further hydrolyze from the phenylalanine in the acidic conditions of your stomach to free methanol and phenylalanine, another amino acid. At this point, within your stomach, it is no different than if you had eaten a bite of chicken and a sip of orange juice because you'd get the same amount of phenylalanine, aspartate and methanol from those.
If you want to learn more about what that is then biochemistry and molecular biology textbooks and courses are likely available at your local community college. But if you don't know much about the topic and are "confused" by it then you probably shouldn't be giving people advice.
The FDA is not pulling aspartame off the shelves scientific community does not advise at all that aspartame should be removed from our food and drink, you are getting that from what you are reading on the internet without having the education necessary (no offense) to distinguish between what is true and what is not.
I really don't understand you because on the one hand you talk about how confused you are by it and how you don't understand this or that and how you don't know this and don't know that and don't know if and what the safe level is but then you proceed to draw conclusions and then advice people on the basis of your conclusions. If you don't know enough then perhaps don't give advice on the topic. It just adds to the general confusion and mix of misinformation on the internet when people who frankly don't know what they are talking about talk anyways.
You can find a full review of the field and topic here which I have offered before to get you the full copy of if you are actually interested
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17828671
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timeforwork wrote: »If you would like to cut down on the diet coke how about trying flavored fizzy water? For me it doesn't taste like water that I also hate and I get my bubble fix! Most are no calorie or 2-3 calories per cup but they tend to have less additives than coke and no caffeine . Worth looking at your local supermarket and trying it x
Diet coke is fizzy flavoured water. The only difference would be added caffeine.3 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »
Awesome posts. Thank you, I never realised that aspartame was aminos.Aaron_K123 wrote: »AnabolicMind2011 wrote: »MissJanet55 wrote: »I'm not one to argue on internet forums, but there is a lot of documentation.
This science paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474447/
And this piece on safefood, although this group obviously has a point of view:
http://www.safefood.org.nz/aspartaddict.html
An FDA paper on aspartame toxicity:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt
And many more. There are also pieces saying it is perfectly safe, so pick your poison. But one thing is sure - giving it up is not going to hurt you.
I saw a lot of articles that say it is not harmful also. It is confusing because studies are inconclusive.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/artificial-sweeteners/
So if your confused about the Topic @DebSozo then why do continue to give advice? Why not do your own research( from reputable sources not quick Google searches) and educate yourself before trying to advise others?
The subject is confusing because the FDA allows apartame anyhow despite objections. There are scientists who advise against allowing it into our food and drinks. I believe that people should have informed consent and know what they are ingesting. People should be able to discuss their concerns on discussion boards and forums and research for themselves. If after researching they still want to consume it, then that is their choice. I personally want to know the risks so that I can make my own decisions.
If you are injesting aspartame you are injesting a methylester of a dipeptide, specifically a linkage between aspartate and phenylalanine. The peptide linkage between phenylalanine and aspartate will be broken by the myriad of peptidases and the acidic conditions withn your stomach freeing the methylester of phenylalanine plus the amino acid aspartate. The methyl ester will further hydrolyze from the phenylalanine in the acidic conditions of your stomach to free methanol and phenylalanine, another amino acid. At this point, within your stomach, it is no different than if you had eaten a bite of chicken and a sip of orange juice because you'd get the same amount of phenylalanine, aspartate and methanol from those.
If you want to learn more about what that is then biochemistry and molecular biology textbooks and courses are likely available at your local community college. But if you don't know much about the topic and are "confused" by it then you probably shouldn't be giving people advice.
The FDA is not pulling aspartame off the shelves scientific community does not advise at all that aspartame should be removed from our food and drink, you are getting that from what you are reading on the internet without having the education necessary (no offense) to distinguish between what is true and what is not.
I really don't understand you because on the one hand you talk about how confused you are by it and how you don't understand this or that and how you don't know this and don't know that and don't know if and what the safe level is but then you proceed to draw conclusions and then advice people on the basis of your conclusions. If you don't know enough then perhaps don't give advice on the topic. It just adds to the general confusion and mix of misinformation on the internet when people who frankly don't know what they are talking about talk anyways.
You can find a full review of the field and topic here which I have offered before to get you the full copy of if you are actually interested
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17828671
Yeah its a dipeptide of aspartate and phenylalanine (same as you'd find in any protein) with the phenylalanine modified so that instead of a carboxylic acid terminus it has a methylated ester. Both the peptide bond between the aminos and the ester bond to the methyl group are metabolically labile and will be quickly decomposed.
Thats it...that is literally all there is to it.2 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »timeforwork wrote: »If you would like to cut down on the diet coke how about trying flavored fizzy water? For me it doesn't taste like water that I also hate and I get my bubble fix! Most are no calorie or 2-3 calories per cup but they tend to have less additives than coke and no caffeine . Worth looking at your local supermarket and trying it x
Diet coke is fizzy flavoured water. The only difference would be added caffeine.
Yeah caffeine definitely has an affect. To the OP I'd say the issue with drinking 4 liters of cola a day is the caffeine really.4 -
Aaron, I am confused as to WHY there are conflicting scientific studies. I would advise people to read up on the subject. Do you work for Monsanto or have you ever worked for Searle Pharmaceuticals? I'm beginning to wonder.
There's people with agendas feeding rats 1000 times more by bodyweight than a human could possibly ingest, made by institutes that have been by other researchers called "The laughingstock of the scientific community" because they "find" that pretty much anything they test causes cancer.13 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Look, this is the metabolic breakdown pathway for aspartame as I described:
[snip].
I'm so happy to see biochem on MFP first thing on a Monday morning. I'm not even being sarcastic. It made this chemist happy.11 -
I'm not a chemist, but I am an old lady who believes that any day you don't learn something is a day you've merely existed. Thank you @Aaron_K123.
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Aaron, I am confused as to WHY there are conflicting scientific studies. I would advise people to read up on the subject. Do you work for Monsanto or have you ever worked for Searle Pharmaceuticals? I'm beginning to wonder.
Curious as to what you are insinuating here? That because @Aaron_K123 had taken the time to patiently explain the actual science behind what you and so many others are "confused" by using his chemistry knowledge... He must be a shill for the large corporations responsible for researching, developing, testing, and making commercially available this product that scientists have been testing for decades and time and again have deemed safe?
That's quite the tactic, when you are unable to make a logical scientific rebuttal, to attempt to throw doubt upon your debate opponent by diminishing his ethics...17 -
JayWillis99 wrote: »Nope. I'm not going to post.
Then I'm not going to believe your claims.1 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Look, this is the metabolic breakdown pathway for aspartame as I described:
[snip].
I'm so happy to see biochem on MFP first thing on a Monday morning. I'm not even being sarcastic. It made this chemist happy.
I'm just hoping he has the patience to stay around. These types of threads have driven away the most informed on many occasions.10 -
You can't say that you want to pay attention to the science and the facts and then accuse the person giving you the science and the facts of being a shill because they don't agree with you...that makes it clear that your priority isn't science or facts, but encouraging a certain agenda that fits with your preconceived notions. Very unscientific.15
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WinoGelato wrote: »Aaron, I am confused as to WHY there are conflicting scientific studies. I would advise people to read up on the subject. Do you work for Monsanto or have you ever worked for Searle Pharmaceuticals? I'm beginning to wonder.
Curious as to what you are insinuating here? That because @Aaron_K123 had taken the time to patiently explain the actual science behind what you and so many others are "confused" by using his chemistry knowledge... He must be a shill for the large corporations responsible for researching, developing, testing, and making commercially available this product that scientists have been testing for decades and time and again have deemed safe?
That's quite the tactic, when you are unable to make a logical scientific rebuttal, to attempt to throw doubt upon your debate opponent by diminishing his ethics...You can't say that you want to pay attention to the science and the facts and then accuse the person giving you the science and the facts of being a shill because they don't agree with you...that makes it clear that your priority isn't science or facts, but encouraging a certain agenda that fits with your preconceived notions. Very unscientific.
I agree. @Aaron_K123 has explained it perfectly, along with wonderful black and white with wonderful diagrams.4 -
Never seen a 12 step group for diet coke.
My nephew is spending the next decade in prison for robbery to support his addiction, maybe he should try diet coke when he gets out?4 -
Members like @Aaron_K123 should absolutely be applauded for taking their time to explain away all the myths that constantly are spread around here. He took his time to try to explain the real facts on this topic. @Aaron_K123 thank you. Your truly a breathe of fresh air.
It's unfortunate that some still can't grasp the truth. This place would be so much better if people only gave advice on topics they truly understand. It's really doing a disservice to newcomers when people insist on trying to advise others when they themselves have no idea what they are talking about.12 -
I used to drink it every day but gave it up. Withdrawals were horrible, I really wanted one. I sometimes have an occasional Diet Coke but I can feel it getting a grip on me again. I think avoiding junk drinks is better, try switching to something less harmful, maybe a sugar free squash, chilled in the fridge0
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AnabolicMind2011 wrote: »Members like @Aaron_K123 should absolutely be applauded for taking their time to explain away all the myths that constantly are spread around here. He took his time to try to explain the real facts on this topic. @Aaron_K123 thank you. Your truly a breathe of fresh air.
It's unfortunate that some still can't grasp the truth. This place would be so much better if people only gave advice on topics they truly understand. It's really doing a disservice to newcomers when people insist on trying to advise others when they themselves have no idea what they are talking about.
Amen0 -
I used to drink it every day but gave it up. Withdrawals were horrible, I really wanted one. I sometimes have an occasional Diet Coke but I can feel it getting a grip on me again. I think avoiding junk drinks is better, try switching to something less harmful, maybe a sugar free squash, chilled in the fridge
What's the actual difference between a sugar free squash and diet coke other than the particular flavor?
Here's one example of sugar free squash: https://www.robinsonssquash.co.uk/2 -
I used to drink it every day but gave it up. Withdrawals were horrible, I really wanted one. I sometimes have an occasional Diet Coke but I can feel it getting a grip on me again. I think avoiding junk drinks is better, try switching to something less harmful, maybe a sugar free squash, chilled in the fridge
That was likely the caffeine you had withdrawals from.
What specifically is harmful about diet soda? In what dosage is it harmful?
What's a sugar free squash? Ok - looked that up. It's not available in the US. But it looks like it is pureed fruit mixed with seltzer water? Is that right? And the sugar free ones, according to Wikipedia:
'Squashes labelled "no added sugar" are artificially sweetened, usually with aspartame, acesulfame K, saccharin or sucralose, which is much cheaper for the manufacturers than both HFCS and natural sugar. They are very low in calories, sometimes having as few as 4 per 100ml diluted, and they are marketed towards families seeking low calorie alternatives. They tend to be very low in fruit juice, as fruit juice contains natural sugars, so they usually also contain natural or artificial flavourings (isoamyl acetate for pear or banana, or mixed with malic acid to make an apple-like flavour, ethyl methylphenylglycidate for strawberry, octyl acetate for orange, allyl hexanoate for pineapple etc.) to make up for the lack of fruit juice taste.'
Not sure how that is any different than the Diet Soda? Other than missing the caffeine, which again, is likely what gave you the withdrawals, so couldn't you have just switched to caffeine free diet soda?6
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