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Sweetener - Good or Bad?

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Replies

  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
    stevencloser wrote: »
    If I had a penny for every time someone made a post like that and backed it up with either a blog article without citations or a study they either didn't read or understand, I'd be a very rich mouse.

    With fabulous abs!!
  • phildog50
    phildog50 Posts: 32 Member
    One unrated sweetener that I prefer is the monk fruit, i.e. Nectress or Monk Fruit in the raw. It is the ONLY artificial sweetener that tastes/looks like sugar out of the packet. ZERO calories.
    http://www.intheraw.com/products/monk-fruit-in-the-raw
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    jondspen wrote: »
    stevencloser wrote: »
    jondspen wrote: »
    I know there are a lot of people who will say aspartame is safe...but for me it was causing severe leg aches. I try to stay away from them as much as possible. I either go without, substitute with something else (honey, agave, etc.), or use the sugar and just adjust my calories for the day.

    Luckily, I have never been big on sweets. We owned a grocery store growing up, but instead of raiding the candy isle, I always wanted a slice of longhorn colby....love cheese! :)

    I'm always surprised at experiences like that. Because aspartame doesn't even leave your digestive tract as aspartame, it gets immediately broken apart into its parts and those parts you ingest in quantities thousands of times higher every single day. How is it supposed to do anything in your legs? Or for the other poster their neurological system?

    Honestly, I can't answer your question. I did not major in biology, or get my PhD in biochemistry, so I am ignorant on many of the processes involved in converting chemicals to energy inside a living organism. I DO KNOW that there are these people called DOCTORS who study this stuff, do scientific research, and publish their findings in peer reviewed publications, where others can conduct the same experiments and replicate the findings.

    I also know that hydrogen peroxide is H2O2, which is just hydrogen and oxygen. Hell, it's almost water!!! So by your argument, a person can also injest hydrogen peroxide, and since it is broken down in the liver by Catalase into water and an oxygen molecule...neither of which are poisonous...then hydrogen peroxide is not poisonous. Yet we know that Hydrogen Peroxide is POISONOUS to humans, and you CAN DIE from it.

    Just because the body can eventually break it down into something that is ok...doesn't mean that it is not dangerous or harmful to the body. Perhaps it's the initial chemical, perhaps it's what is released into the body during the break down process, perhaps it's one of the chemicals left after the breakdown; I don't know. All I do know is my experience with the stuff and SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH that has found aspartame is not benign.
    http://www.medicinenet.com/artificial_sweeteners/page8.htm

    Logic = 1
    Stevencloser = 0

    You talk about scientific evidence and then you link to a dot.com website that has blog articles written by who knows who that fail to cite anything to back up what they are saying. In this case written by a dietician as an opinion piece. Here is a claim made early in the article

    "One hundred percent of the research performed by the company who makes aspartame confirmed aspartame's safety, whereas 92% of the independently funded research found problems with consuming aspartame. Other reports of federal employees working for the companies responsible for the testing and distribution of aspartame are cited on all of the sites and books opposing the use of aspartame."

    Which is an incredible claim to make and something that they should definately back up with some citations...do that do that? No, of course they don't. They don't source this claim and they don't provide citations to what studies they are even refering to. This is someone's internet blog that was put up for profit, this is not a scientific resource at all. It cites nothing, it makes claims but does not back any of them up with anything other than more claims. The evidence that it is dangerous? The fact that people have written books about it being dangerous is the evidence that is given.

    The current scientific consensus is that aspartame is not toxic or dangerous to humans at all.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17828671

    Your claims about hydrogen peroxide are a total nonsequitar. hydrogen peroxide isn't metabolized, its is a reactive oxygen species that has to get dealt with by enzymes such as catylase that deal with reactive oxygen species. Reactive oxygen species in and of themselves can cause damage to macromolecules such as DNA by reactiong with them chemically, they are dangerous and we know that. It enters the body as an oxygen radical, it doesn't have to be metabolised to become dangerous it is dangerous as it is which in and of itself causes damage so yes, of course it is toxic. Aspartame isn't some reactive species that is inheriently damaging...its a methylated dipeptide...there is nothing about that that is inheriently dangerous. So the only way you could claim it is dangerous is to say the body somehow does something to it to convert it to something that IS dangerous at which point you'd have to back that claim up by some sort of mechanistic explanation as to how followed by evidence.

    Hydrogen peroxide is, like other peroxides, a reactive oxygen species that can interact with hydrocarbons and break bonds thus causing damage to important molecules such as proteins, DNA and RNA. Yes enzymes like catylase exist to help mitigate this by sequestering and dealing with peroxides but they just mitigate the damage, they don't prevent it entirely and the more peroxides your exposed to the greater the damage will be...we understand that. What is the mechanism of damage caused by aspartame exactly...can you walk me through that?

    Yeah I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for the response...
  • lyndawhite2010
    lyndawhite2010 Posts: 5 Member
    I don't have any facts or citations; all I know is how it makes me feel. I drank Diet Mountain Dews since I was 15. The aspartame built up so much in my bloodstream that it made my feet and legs swell and hurt! and 2 weeks after I quit about 3 years ago it stopped. This was before I started losing weight.

    Splenda's okay in small amounts but any more than that, it gives me terrible gas pains.

    Stevia makes my heart race just like caffeine, which I quit (caffeine, that is) at the same time I quit the diet Dew.

    So I just stay away from all of it and use sugar in small amounts, very rarely.
  • sparklyglitterbomb
    sparklyglitterbomb Posts: 458 Member
    edited October 2016
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    jondspen wrote: »
    stevencloser wrote: »
    jondspen wrote: »
    I know there are a lot of people who will say aspartame is safe...but for me it was causing severe leg aches. I try to stay away from them as much as possible. I either go without, substitute with something else (honey, agave, etc.), or use the sugar and just adjust my calories for the day.

    Luckily, I have never been big on sweets. We owned a grocery store growing up, but instead of raiding the candy isle, I always wanted a slice of longhorn colby....love cheese! :)

    I'm always surprised at experiences like that. Because aspartame doesn't even leave your digestive tract as aspartame, it gets immediately broken apart into its parts and those parts you ingest in quantities thousands of times higher every single day. How is it supposed to do anything in your legs? Or for the other poster their neurological system?

    Honestly, I can't answer your question. I did not major in biology, or get my PhD in biochemistry, so I am ignorant on many of the processes involved in converting chemicals to energy inside a living organism. I DO KNOW that there are these people called DOCTORS who study this stuff, do scientific research, and publish their findings in peer reviewed publications, where others can conduct the same experiments and replicate the findings.

    I also know that hydrogen peroxide is H2O2, which is just hydrogen and oxygen. Hell, it's almost water!!! So by your argument, a person can also injest hydrogen peroxide, and since it is broken down in the liver by Catalase into water and an oxygen molecule...neither of which are poisonous...then hydrogen peroxide is not poisonous. Yet we know that Hydrogen Peroxide is POISONOUS to humans, and you CAN DIE from it.

    Just because the body can eventually break it down into something that is ok...doesn't mean that it is not dangerous or harmful to the body. Perhaps it's the initial chemical, perhaps it's what is released into the body during the break down process, perhaps it's one of the chemicals left after the breakdown; I don't know. All I do know is my experience with the stuff and SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH that has found aspartame is not benign.
    http://www.medicinenet.com/artificial_sweeteners/page8.htm

    Logic = 1
    Stevencloser = 0

    You talk about scientific evidence and then you link to a dot.com website that has blog articles written by who knows who that fail to cite anything to back up what they are saying. In this case written by a dietician as an opinion piece. Here is a claim made early in the article

    "One hundred percent of the research performed by the company who makes aspartame confirmed aspartame's safety, whereas 92% of the independently funded research found problems with consuming aspartame. Other reports of federal employees working for the companies responsible for the testing and distribution of aspartame are cited on all of the sites and books opposing the use of aspartame."

    Which is an incredible claim to make and something that they should definately back up with some citations...do that do that? No, of course they don't. They don't source this claim and they don't provide citations to what studies they are even refering to. This is someone's internet blog that was put up for profit, this is not a scientific resource at all. It cites nothing, it makes claims but does not back any of them up with anything other than more claims. The evidence that it is dangerous? The fact that people have written books about it being dangerous is the evidence that is given.

    The current scientific consensus is that aspartame is not toxic or dangerous to humans at all.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17828671

    Your claims about hydrogen peroxide are a total nonsequitar. hydrogen peroxide isn't metabolized, its is a reactive oxygen species that has to get dealt with by enzymes such as catylase that deal with reactive oxygen species. Reactive oxygen species in and of themselves can cause damage to macromolecules such as DNA by reactiong with them chemically, they are dangerous and we know that. It enters the body as an oxygen radical, it doesn't have to be metabolised to become dangerous it is dangerous as it is which in and of itself causes damage so yes, of course it is toxic. Aspartame isn't some reactive species that is inheriently damaging...its a methylated dipeptide...there is nothing about that that is inheriently dangerous. So the only way you could claim it is dangerous is to say the body somehow does something to it to convert it to something that IS dangerous at which point you'd have to back that claim up by some sort of mechanistic explanation as to how followed by evidence.

    Hydrogen peroxide is, like other peroxides, a reactive oxygen species that can interact with hydrocarbons and break bonds thus causing damage to important molecules such as proteins, DNA and RNA. Yes enzymes like catylase exist to help mitigate this by sequestering and dealing with peroxides but they just mitigate the damage, they don't prevent it entirely and the more peroxides your exposed to the greater the damage will be...we understand that. What is the mechanism of damage caused by aspartame exactly...can you walk me through that?

    tenor.gif
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    lyndawhite2010 wrote: »
    I don't have any facts or citations; all I know is how it makes me feel. I drank Diet Mountain Dews since I was 15. The aspartame built up so much in my bloodstream that it made my feet and legs swell and hurt! and 2 weeks after I quit about 3 years ago it stopped. This was before I started losing weight.

    Splenda's okay in small amounts but any more than that, it gives me terrible gas pains.

    Stevia makes my heart race just like caffeine, which I quit (caffeine, that is) at the same time I quit the diet Dew.

    So I just stay away from all of it and use sugar in small amounts, very rarely.

    healthychoices4life.com/aspartame-poisoning-stole-20-years-of-good-health-.html

    @lyndawhite2010 welcome to MFP forums.

    Clearly a number of other people based on this article and the many comments to the article have health related issues from aspartame and other sweeteners. Best of success in learning the best foods to eat to recover your health. It may take a while but after we find out what NOT to eat/drink we have a shot at recovering.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    Hornsby wrote: »
    NASA has bombed the aliens in 09. No retaliation as of yet, thankfully.

    http://www.inquisitr.com/2988781/nasa-dropped-nuclear-bomb-on-alien-moon-base-on-october-9-2009-ufo-blogger-claims-smoking-gun-evidence-video/
    yea, but that was commanded by the lizard over-lords who rule the world..

    http://www.toptenz.net/10-things-you-should-know-about-the-reptilian-conspiracy-theory.php
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Actually, I just realized that we know that Jesus is returning before the World Series is over:

    http://babylonbee.com/news/second-coming-christ-scheduled-game-7-cubs-indians-world-series/
  • jondspen
    jondspen Posts: 253 Member
    paperpudding wrote: »
    And the link you gave is not to a scientific peer reviewed study at all

    You're absolutely right, it link was an article that was not a scientific peer reviewed paper, but did have links in it to them.

    As far as the studies that say the FDA, USDA, and all these food additive companies have done studies and found nothing wrong...it wouldn't be the first time they were wrong.

    https://usrtk.org/the-fda-and-food-companies-have-been-wrong-before-they-have-assured-us-of-the-safety-of-products-that-were-not-safe/


    So to all of you who think we are just 'Chicken Littles' running around latching on to fear-mongering claims to do...what ?....control the world's sweetener choices, I could really care less. I KNOW that while ingesting aspartame (~40 oz or more a day in diet soft drinks), I would have BAD leg aches. I KNOW that I did not believe at first aspartame was the problem, and only after quitting and then starting back on diet sodas, did I believe aspartame was the problem.

    Could I be wrong...yes.
    Could it have been something else in the diet sodas...yes.
    Could it have been something else completely unrelated to diet sodas...yes.
    Could it have just been a coincidence that stopping diet sodas relieved the pain, and starting on them again caused it to re-appear...yes.

    Unfortunately, I do not have the facilities, funding, or ability to thoroughly test why I was having such severe leg pains. All I do know is I feel better now, and regular sodas made with HFCS or real sugar do not cause my legs to ache for hours. Given this, I chose to the diet ones and just up my daily exercise to work off the extra calories.

    As far as everyone else....I could give a crap less on what you believe.

  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    edited November 2016
    jondspen wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    And the link you gave is not to a scientific peer reviewed study at all

    You're absolutely right, it link was an article that was not a scientific peer reviewed paper, but did have links in it to them.

    As far as the studies that say the FDA, USDA, and all these food additive companies have done studies and found nothing wrong...it wouldn't be the first time they were wrong.

    https://usrtk.org/the-fda-and-food-companies-have-been-wrong-before-they-have-assured-us-of-the-safety-of-products-that-were-not-safe/


    So to all of you who think we are just 'Chicken Littles' running around latching on to fear-mongering claims to do...what ?....control the world's sweetener choices, I could really care less. I KNOW that while ingesting aspartame (~40 oz or more a day in diet soft drinks), I would have BAD leg aches. I KNOW that I did not believe at first aspartame was the problem, and only after quitting and then starting back on diet sodas, did I believe aspartame was the problem.

    Could I be wrong...yes.
    Could it have been something else in the diet sodas...yes.
    Could it have been something else completely unrelated to diet sodas...yes.
    Could it have just been a coincidence that stopping diet sodas relieved the pain, and starting on them again caused it to re-appear...yes.

    Unfortunately, I do not have the facilities, funding, or ability to thoroughly test why I was having such severe leg pains. All I do know is I feel better now, and regular sodas made with HFCS or real sugar do not cause my legs to ache for hours. Given this, I chose to the diet ones and just up my daily exercise to work off the extra calories.

    As far as everyone else....I could give a crap less on what you believe.

    FYI, a list of things that the FDA banned in the fifties and sixties due to the possibility of those things causing problems in animals does not stand up well as an argument to completely distrust the standards of the FDA.

    ETA: If anything, it demonstrates the diligence of the FDA in enforcing the strictest standards of safety in that they took action to ban things that had previously been considered safe.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    Has anyone posted this one yet?

    https://chriskresser.com/how-artificial-sweeteners-wreak-havoc-on-your-gut/?utm_source=ChrisKresser.com&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e7d56abf8a-ee9c9ca3ac-95902905&utm_content&utm_campaign=ee9c9ca3ac-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2016_11_09&mc_cid=ee9c9ca3ac&mc_eid=56daae840f
  • crzycatlady1
    crzycatlady1 Posts: 1,930 Member
    edited November 2016
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Has anyone posted this one yet?

    https://chriskresser.com/how-artificial-sweeteners-wreak-havoc-on-your-gut/?utm_source=ChrisKresser.com&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e7d56abf8a-ee9c9ca3ac-95902905&utm_content&utm_campaign=ee9c9ca3ac-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2016_11_09&mc_cid=ee9c9ca3ac&mc_eid=56daae840f

    I decided to lose the extra weight because I had a high/pre-diabetic glucose number. As I began losing weight I also started drinking diet soda. Fast forward a few years, and 50lbs lost, and my glucose numbers are consistently under 100. I consume artificial sweeteners every single day now (sidenote: when I was overweight/had high glucose numbers I did not use artificial sweeteners at all).
  • Tacklewasher
    Tacklewasher Posts: 7,122 Member
    Trying to get used to the taste of any of them. I really don't like the taste but otherwise get that they are safe.

    @Aaron_K123 I like the info you present.
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