Why do some people struggle with losing weight?
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queenliz99 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
So, you're saying that you take in more calories than you burn and still lose weight? Please - share with the group!
No, that's not what he is saying at all. That is what you are assuming he is saying.
Is this tongue in cheek?
No, I am not being tongue in cheek.
CICO is fat loss at the most basic level. Struggling with weight loss is a bigger issue than just looking at CICO.
I will use myself as an example. This year I lost 8 pounds from January through March. At the end of March my work-related stress shot through the roof for a variety of reasons. I increased my caloric deficit but saw no movement on the scale so I added more exercise. Still no movement on the scale. Meanwhile, my work stress increased again significantly, I lost my period, and my emotions were a mess (I am not a person who cries very often and I was crying every night.) Eventually I realized that my NEAT expenditure was in the tank and I started reading more about long term consequences of losing your period and how NEAT can dip significantly in a cut so I backed off on my deficit and on exercise. That went fairly well to destress me a bit. By that point I'd gone 5 months without losing a pound. Around that time I had a DEXA, the results of which were pretty terrible, and I pretty much said screw it and I ate whatever I wanted for 6 weeks. The plus side of that was that my period finally returned but the minus was that I gained some weight. At the most basic level was that due to CICO? Absolutely. But was my struggle simply due to CICO? No way. My struggle was with balancing a variety of issues going on in my life, not simply what I was eating.
If people think my problems this year were simply due to:- a disconnect in [my]self-control between "I want" and "I will"
- Nothing is my fault, I'm a special snowflake, and I'm amazing no matter what.
- because I hide behind excuses 80% of the time, And 19.9% is just lack of educating [myself].
...that's all fine. I'm not fragile enough to get bogged down by those comments. But others who may not have been at the weight loss game very long may be and I truly feel for them.
Then, what is the OP saying? I missed it.
Wait--OP or helloitsDan?
The OP asked why do some people struggle with losing weight, what goes wrong?
Dan said that some people will say it is CICO and then he linked to the diagram showing a variety of factors that influence obesity.
Then amyepdx said to Dan "So, you're saying that you take in more calories than you burn and still lose weight? Please - share with the group!"
Then I said no, that is not what he is saying at all.
Phew. I think that's it
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I guess where I, and others, are getting hung up is on the whole "there is more to it than CICO". The clinical reality is there isn't more than CICO, but that isn't a particularly helpful insight to someone having difficulties with weight loss. There are lots of reasons why someone is having a tough time losing weight, personal, medical etc. and somehow this is being presented as CICO isn't enough. They are two very different conversations.
Honestly the reason why i wasn't losing weight until recently is I didn't give a *kitten*. I now give a *kitten*. But I'm not everyone. Some are trying and failing for various reasons. But then we get into personal conversations that some may not want to have.
My opinion is when these questions come up, it is better for me to assume there are not deeper issues and to respond with a more factual explanation and advice based on what I've done. It's different then if someone's post comes across as needed medical or emotional help. In all honesty, I don't respond to those because I am not qualified and it is not my strong suit.
In short, I'm an accountant.7 -
I just want to go on record that I have never flagged any post.
I believe that feedback is the only way I'm going to learn. If I'm not learning, I'm not going forward. And I can learn even from snarky, mean, sarcastic and even inaccurate posts (learn about people themselves). I may not like it though:).
If its blatantly hate speech, I may reserve the right to flag.1 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
So, you're saying that you take in more calories than you burn and still lose weight? Please - share with the group!
That's not really what he's saying...he's pointing out that there are a myriad of reasons for which a person may have difficulty adhering to a diet and losing weight. This is true, but I don't know that it's particularly helpful in a forum setting. If someone is having trouble with dietary adherence, it is probably best to be addressed one on one with their trainer/coach, therapist, dietitian, or whatever depending on what the issue is...I don't think anyone in a forum setting is going to be able to sit down with a poster and dissect a potential myriad of underlying issues, nor would most members be properly equipped to actually handle or help solve that issue, particularly in a forum setting.
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Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
Too bad you couldn't say that obesity is a complex issue without taking a swipe at a great many of the people you're claiming to want to help.
You know, a lot of us have done really well with CICO, Dan.
I don't know what your beef is here. I'm the first to say that obesity is a complex issue, and that for any one individual struggling with it, there could be any number of factors at play -- and those factors will vary from the next person who is struggling with it.
It took me 40 years to work through the numerous issues I had playing into my own issues with weight because of all the factors involved, but ultimately, it still came down to energy balance to lose the 94 pounds I lost, and it still comes down to energy balance to maintain that loss.
You insult and deny the validity of the experience and success a great deal of us have had every time you make a comment like you've done here. It's beyond me what you're trying to accomplish.15 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
Your link, as far as I can tell completely supports CICO/energy balance. It just lays out things effecting both CI and CO.
Yes, just saying CICO may be simplistic to you, but it's the way things work and trust me, it's far similar to understand energy balances then trying to wade through 'diet woo' that exists in the media. It's a place to start and can shine light on the psychological and other factors that can then be worked on to ensure success.
Weight loss is simple, but not easy.7 -
queenliz99 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
So, you're saying that you take in more calories than you burn and still lose weight? Please - share with the group!
No, that's not what he is saying at all. That is what you are assuming he is saying.
Is this tongue in cheek?
No, I am not being tongue in cheek.
CICO is fat loss at the most basic level. Struggling with weight loss is a bigger issue than just looking at CICO.
I will use myself as an example. This year I lost 8 pounds from January through March. At the end of March my work-related stress shot through the roof for a variety of reasons. I increased my caloric deficit but saw no movement on the scale so I added more exercise. Still no movement on the scale. Meanwhile, my work stress increased again significantly, I lost my period, and my emotions were a mess (I am not a person who cries very often and I was crying every night.) Eventually I realized that my NEAT expenditure was in the tank and I started reading more about long term consequences of losing your period and how NEAT can dip significantly in a cut so I backed off on my deficit and on exercise. That went fairly well to destress me a bit. By that point I'd gone 5 months without losing a pound. Around that time I had a DEXA, the results of which were pretty terrible, and I pretty much said screw it and I ate whatever I wanted for 6 weeks. The plus side of that was that my period finally returned but the minus was that I gained some weight. At the most basic level was that due to CICO? Absolutely. But was my struggle simply due to CICO? No way. My struggle was with balancing a variety of issues going on in my life, not simply what I was eating.
If people think my problems this year were simply due to:- a disconnect in [my]self-control between "I want" and "I will"
- Nothing is my fault, I'm a special snowflake, and I'm amazing no matter what.
- because I hide behind excuses 80% of the time, And 19.9% is just lack of educating [myself].
...that's all fine. I'm not fragile enough to get bogged down by those comments. But others who may not have been at the weight loss game very long may be and I truly feel for them.
Then, what is the OP saying? I missed it.
Wait--OP or helloitsDan?
The OP asked why do some people struggle with losing weight, what goes wrong?
Dan said that some people will say it is CICO and then he linked to the diagram showing a variety of factors that influence obesity.
Then amyepdx said to Dan "So, you're saying that you take in more calories than you burn and still lose weight? Please - share with the group!"
Then I said no, that is not what he is saying at all.
Phew. I think that's it
I was confused too0 -
Quite honestly, it sounds to me like the new trend is "It isn't just CICO....it's so so soooooo much deeper and more complicated than that, there are all these bazillionty things you just couldn't possibly figure out on your own - you need a coach. Oh, by the way, I'm a coach."19
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Quite honestly, it sounds to me like the new trend is "It isn't just CICO....it's so so soooooo much deeper and more complicated than that, there are all these bazillionty things you just couldn't possibly figure out on your own - you need a coach. Oh, by the way, I'm a coach."
I'm a coach, too!3 -
grmckenzie wrote: »I guess where I, and others, are getting hung up is on the whole "there is more to it than CICO". The clinical reality is there isn't more than CICO, but that isn't a particularly helpful insight to someone having difficulties with weight loss. There are lots of reasons why someone is having a tough time losing weight, personal, medical etc. and somehow this is being presented as CICO isn't enough. They are two very different conversations.
Honestly the reason why i wasn't losing weight until recently is I didn't give a *kitten*. I now give a *kitten*. But I'm not everyone. Some are trying and failing for various reasons. But then we get into personal conversations that some may not want to have.
My opinion is when these questions come up, it is better for me to assume there are not deeper issues and to respond with a more factual explanation and advice based on what I've done. It's different then if someone's post comes across as needed medical or emotional help. In all honesty, I don't respond to those because I am not qualified and it is not my strong suit.
In short, I'm an accountant.
Ha! I'm an accountant too so that made me laugh. It also was part of why my crying this summer felt like WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP! System in distress! WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP! It was an extremely abnormal reaction for me.
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singingflutelady wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
I would have to agree.
I havent been here for very long (july this year) but its quite clear that this forum is "run" by 15-20 people. Those people will in general have a big post count, they are likely to throw a title in your face, and some of them tend to flag posts they simply disagree with.
And yes, the answer is far more complex.
For instance, we dont all have the same amount of fat cells in our body.
Odd... I find that it's typically newer members that misuse the flag system. Not always, but typically.
How do you know?
Because established users are more familiar with the rules than newbies and we get our (non abusive, non spam bit) posts flagged just as much as others
MORE than others. It's almost always (or so it seems) when someone new comes in, spouts utter nonsense, and that nonsense is corrected by people who have actually learned better. The "veteran" posters end up with flags.
I don't know and I haven't kept track, but since the sort of topic you describe is bound to push buttons all over the place, I can see it being a flag-for-all no matter what...noobs, secret oldsters, anybody. Stuff like that tends to turn into a you-know-what storm. I don't know why. "No" should be enough. LOL.
Again, JMO.
How to phrase this... experienced users know, from experience, that it's against the rules to "abuse" the flag system.
Also, experienced users know that mods do not see truly abusive posts that are merely flagged; they don't flag those posts, they report them.
New users don't know the ins and outs of the system.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Also, experienced users know that mods do not see truly abusive posts that are merely flagged; they don't flag those posts, they report them.
New users don't know the ins and outs of the system.
How do you report them, vs. flagging them?
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »
This. They are most likely not watching their calorie intake.SuzySunshine99 wrote: »They are consuming more calories than they burn. Unless there is a medical condition, that is the only reason.
Eating clean/healthy and exercise does not necessarily mean someone will lose weight.
Really, this is something that's often drastically understated by most people. It's MUCH more effective to restrict calories to lose weight, than it is to increase exercise to any appreciable degree. I can create a 1000 calorie deficit, even with my relatively piddly maintenance calories (2100) pretty easily. To burn an extra 1000 calories in a day via exercise? Yeah, I don't have a bunch of spare hours to spend making myself want to die on an elliptical. So what do you expect from the kind of people who think of walking their dog and washing laundry as exercise?
Walking the dog IS exercise. It might not burn as many calories per hour as running, but it is exercise. So is housework, under the right conditions. It's just hard to quantify compared to a lot of other things. That's why if people do it consistently it winds up under the activity level setting.
No, that's not exercise, unless you do them wearing full military loadouts of gear. Those are called "life". Just like food prep isn't exercise, unless you're a hibachi chef tossing knives and dodging fireballs all day.
I would class walking my daughters Husky as exercise. However i would not class walking my 17 year old shih-tzu as exercise.1 -
Nicole_kayy wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Not saying this is the case for everyone, but some heath conditions make it harder to lose weight. PCOS and thyroid disorders are the two main medical reasons I'm aware of or Maybe they may be eating too much or not as healthy as you suspect? I know someone said PCOS is an excuse people use, but I believe it may actually make weight loss slower, even if you eat actual healthy foods and excerise daily (while having a calorie deficit). That being said, I do believe losing weight with PCOS is possible.
Thyroid disorders, once properly treated, do not make it harder to lose weight. This is a misconception.
I and many other successful posters on these forums have thyroid conditions.1 -
grmckenzie wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Also, experienced users know that mods do not see truly abusive posts that are merely flagged; they don't flag those posts, they report them.
New users don't know the ins and outs of the system.
How do you report them, vs. flagging them?
NM. Found it. Yeah, I've been flagging when I should have reported. Bad me.0 -
This is a very good point...I am fifty nine years old and I am finding it VERY difficult to lose weight...I think this is threefold...It gets harder to lose weight the older that you get(the old "metabolism" thing), I put on a lot of weight during menopause, which a lot of women do), and I have to eat at least HALF of what I used to, even five to ten years ago, to get down to a "normal" weight...I am in the low end of the obese weight right now, and, honestly, if I could just get down into the "overweight" range(and STAY THERE), I would be ecstatic...I just had blood work done recently, and all my numbers are good...The only thing that was high was my cholesterol, and it's been high since my early forties...So, I'm really in pretty good health for someone that is almost sixty years old...Good luck to everyone....and DON'T GIVE UP!!!
Naaer
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I absolutely count walking my dog as exercise.
Yes, that's just part of life in some ways, but I'd argue that going to the gym is also part of life for those that choose to include that. Plus before we had the dog, I was definitely walking less so it's not actually part of my life-without-dog.
I'm not physically able to do some types of exercise (thanks to an old injury), and some I just don't like. Including things I can do and enjoy is actually a much better way for me to get exercise than trying to make a habit of something that just is not going to happen.
(sorry, this was meant to be a reply to some up-thread posts but I have managed to muck up the quoting! Oops.)5 -
I can only speak for myself..
I know exactly how to lose weight, and i give advice here everyday to many people on how to achieve it. Now, if only i could follow my own advice lol The concept is simple, following through 24 hours a day, 7 days a week is the hard part!
I got down to my goal weight of 143lbs (5"8) last year, getting there meant perfect precision and constant thoughts of calories/macros in every single item i ate.. Exhausting was what it was! There was NO cheating, NO tastes of this and that without prelogging it first, constant swapping around of foods to MAKE them fit within my calories, NO rest days from exercise.
Then winter came, and along with that came comfort foods and i quickly regained 5-6lbs. I laxed on my logging with stuff like chips and crackers and i stopped logging those little evening snacks, cheat days went from one every few months to once a week.
I rebelled and got angry that i would have to watch every little thing i ate forever more. I could go on and on, but long story short food tastes good and it's hard to stop at a serving of ice cream or just 1 or 2 cookies. For me, successful weight loss means unbreakable willpower, which is definitely not my strongest trait. Some folks find losing weight a breeze, i am not one of them. It takes a lot of determination, which is work and some people don't want to put in the work.8 -
I absolutely count walking my dog as exercise.
Yes, that's just part of life in some ways, but I'd argue that going to the gym is also part of life for those that choose to include that. Plus before we had the dog, I was definitely walking less so it's not actually part of my life-without-dog.
I'm not physically able to do some types of exercise (thanks to an old injury), and some I just don't like. Including things I can do and enjoy is actually a much better way for me to get exercise than trying to make a habit of something that just is not going to happen.
(sorry, this was meant to be a reply to some up-thread posts but I have managed to muck up the quoting! Oops.)
It's fine, it's obvious that you were replying to either my post, or one that replied to it. I think a lot of people missed my point in the noise that followed. So long as you realize that walking your dog is not equivalent to setting an elliptical to max resistance, or doing metabolic work with weights, it's fine to consider it exercise. It's the mental aspect that seems to trip up some. Exercise usually translates into the need to eat more, and with the excessive burn estimates, a chronic dog walker could be duped into believing that they "deserve" or even "need" that extra thousand calories that they didn't actually burn.1 -
But you're still missing their point, too. With Max elliptical or heavy weights, one could still overly estimate their calorie burn and eat way too much, finding themselves unable to lose at their desired pace. They're explaining their chosen, or in some cases, designated forms of exercise to you, and how this could be max exertion, not to mention result getting, for themGallowmere1984 wrote: »I absolutely count walking my dog as exercise.
Yes, that's just part of life in some ways, but I'd argue that going to the gym is also part of life for those that choose to include that. Plus before we had the dog, I was definitely walking less so it's not actually part of my life-without-dog.
I'm not physically able to do some types of exercise (thanks to an old injury), and some I just don't like. Including things I can do and enjoy is actually a much better way for me to get exercise than trying to make a habit of something that just is not going to happen.
(sorry, this was meant to be a reply to some up-thread posts but I have managed to muck up the quoting! Oops.)
It's fine, it's obvious that you were replying to either my post, or one that replied to it. I think a lot of people missed my point in the noise that followed. So long as you realize that walking your dog is not equivalent to setting an elliptical to max resistance, or doing metabolic work with weights, it's fine to consider it exercise. It's the mental aspect that seems to trip up some. Exercise usually translates into the need to eat more, and with the excessive burn estimates, a chronic dog walker could be duped into believing that they "deserve" or even "need" that extra thousand calories that they didn't actually burn.
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