Protein, Protein, Protein -enough Protein
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I think the typical American diet contains enough protein. We eat meat, fish, and eggs with every meal.
We eat those at every meal? I don't, and didn't before losing weight. I think the average American breakfast is pretty low protein -- I dislike cold cereal, but it seems to me it's not uncommon for that to be breakfast, or some fruit and toast, or a muffin or donut.
That aside, I happen to agree that ON AVERAGE Americans eat plenty of protein, but part of that is that Americans on average eat so many calories. Is it common to cut back and end up low protein? From what I've seen here, yeah. Do some Americans (and others, as this is an international site) struggle to eat much protein? Again, yeah.
Beyond that, there are added reasons to care about protein when losing weight -- to preserve muscle, the recommended amount goes up (here's a pretty good discussion of different protein goals: https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-i-need-every-day/). I've seen a number of other studies showing that people lose more fat and less muscle when having more protein than the RDA. In that there are added reasons to focus on protein as one ages, I aim for .8 g/lb (of a healthy weight, but I am) when losing and at least .6-.8 g/lb anyway (I do train for endurance events and do some strength training, but that's not the main reason why).6 -
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25886710
http://www.eatthis.com/what-happens-when-you-eat-too-much-protein
https://www.forksoverknives.com/meeting-protein-needs-simply-by-eating/
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/three-problems-associated-much-protein-intake-6546.html
http://www.livestrong.com/article/287078-how-much-protein-is-bad-for-the-liver/
http://www.onegreenplanet.org/natural-health/the-effects-of-too-much-animal-protein-on-our-liver/
I ask the questions because I am older and -as you can see- I look like a whale. I do not want my fat to turn into muscles, I would look like a funny version of Schwarzenegger.
I want to be lean and have muscles. I am taking daily medications that already could damage my liver -like Ibuprofen does- I am trying to find out what the healthiest diet will be for ME, in my age. I am planning on living for another 40 years, so it better be good.
Most of our animal products are genetically manipulated, many contain antibiotics -none of it can be healthy to us. I fear that too much animal products could be unhealthy in the long run.
I appreciate all your answers. Some of you have done your homework (thank you) while others just repeat what they have heard or read here (not so good).
In the end, we all have to find our way back to health and back to a normal weight. Health first, that's why I asked.
I am older than many of you who have taken your time to answer me. I might have different issues, osteoporosis, and arthritis and joint pain are some of them.
I think my mind is pretty much made up. I will stay away from too much protein, especially from animal protein.
Sorry, this is not a great source list a discredited documentary a couple biased sites and a fluff site (livestrong) which is a very iffy site for information, some of it ok some not so ok. Please note that EVERYTHING we eat is genetically modified from it's original state, bananas, oranges, apples, grains, broccoli, etc none of that occurred in nature before human intervention.
Also, you are actually insulting a lot of hardworking women, and men, who spend years trying to build lean muscle by thinking that you can just turn fat into muscle by eating a little too much protein. That would be magic if you could do that. I don't think it was your intent but there is no way you could ever look like a bodybuilder, particularly not one of the most genetically gifted, unless you actually tried to do it and had a great drug regiment and where genetically gifted beyond belief.
I wish you the best of luck trying to get back to health but you really need to find better source information because it won't help you reach your goals when you map points in the wrong direction. You can certainly be vegan and get enough protein etc but you will really have to know your foods and plan your meals.9 -
Oh, and of course fat doesn't "turn into" muscle. When losing as a middle-aged woman gaining muscle isn't going to be an issue, preserving what you have is.11
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and of course fat doesn't "turn into" muscle. When losing as a middle-aged woman gaining muscle isn't going to be an issue, preserving what you have is.
If I had a pill that could do that I would be a billionaire next year!6 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and of course fat doesn't "turn into" muscle. When losing as a middle-aged woman gaining muscle isn't going to be an issue, preserving what you have is.
If I had a pill that could do that I would be a billionaire next year!
You should try a juice cleanse. Without all those toxins, you'll be able to turn fat into muscle whilst eating what you want.15 -
trigden1991 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and of course fat doesn't "turn into" muscle. When losing as a middle-aged woman gaining muscle isn't going to be an issue, preserving what you have is.
If I had a pill that could do that I would be a billionaire next year!
You should try a juice cleanse. Without all those toxins, you'll be able to turn fat into muscle whilst eating what you want.
Oh, right I forgot about the cleanse because it's not January yet!
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and of course fat doesn't "turn into" muscle. When losing as a middle-aged woman gaining muscle isn't going to be an issue, preserving what you have is.
If I had a pill that could do that I would be a billionaire next year!
This has turned now into your thread, so please take over and manipulate it into the direction of your liking.
I did not mean to offend anybody. I wrongfully assumed that people here would be open-minded. You show clearly that this is not the case.
I wish you and all your bodybuilding hard working friend all the best -may you always be right. I would also suggest that in the future you should stay away from posts that might have a different opinion than yours.
Thank you for your insults! Well done
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25886710
http://www.eatthis.com/what-happens-when-you-eat-too-much-protein
https://www.forksoverknives.com/meeting-protein-needs-simply-by-eating/
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/three-problems-associated-much-protein-intake-6546.html
http://www.livestrong.com/article/287078-how-much-protein-is-bad-for-the-liver/
http://www.onegreenplanet.org/natural-health/the-effects-of-too-much-animal-protein-on-our-liver/
I ask the questions because I am older and -as you can see- I look like a whale. I do not want my fat to turn into muscles, I would look like a funny version of Schwarzenegger.
I want to be lean and have muscles. I am taking daily medications that already could damage my liver -like Ibuprofen does- I am trying to find out what the healthiest diet will be for ME, in my age. I am planning on living for another 40 years, so it better be good.
Most of our animal products are genetically manipulated, many contain antibiotics -none of it can be healthy to us. I fear that too much animal products could be unhealthy in the long run.
I appreciate all your answers. Some of you have done your homework (thank you) while others just repeat what they have heard or read here (not so good).
In the end, we all have to find our way back to health and back to a normal weight. Health first, that's why I asked.
I am older than many of you who have taken your time to answer me. I might have different issues, osteoporosis, and arthritis and joint pain are some of them.
I think my mind is pretty much made up. I will stay away from too much protein, especially from animal protein.
Isn't most of the food we eat modified though? Fruits and veggie, grains etc.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and of course fat doesn't "turn into" muscle. When losing as a middle-aged woman gaining muscle isn't going to be an issue, preserving what you have is.
If I had a pill that could do that I would be a billionaire next year!
This has turned now into your thread, so please take over and manipulate it into the direction of your liking.
I did not mean to offend anybody. I wrongfully assumed that people here would be open-minded. You show clearly that this is not the case.
I wish you and all your bodybuilding hard working friend all the best -may you always be right. I would also suggest that in the future you should stay away from posts that might have a different opinion than yours.
Thank you for your insults! Well done
But fat doesn't turn into muscle. They are completely different things. Stating that doesn't make someone close minded it shows that they have an understanding of science.10 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and of course fat doesn't "turn into" muscle. When losing as a middle-aged woman gaining muscle isn't going to be an issue, preserving what you have is.
If I had a pill that could do that I would be a billionaire next year!
This has turned now into your thread, so please take over and manipulate it into the direction of your liking.
I did not mean to offend anybody. I wrongfully assumed that people here would be open-minded. You show clearly that this is not the case.
I wish you and all your bodybuilding hard working friend all the best -may you always be right. I would also suggest that in the future you should stay away from posts that might have a different opinion than yours.
Thank you for your insults! Well done
If you take that as an insult you need to re-evaluate your interpretations of what you read. I'm guessing you get insulted a lot.
ETA why is it that the most closed minded people always choose to label others as such? Is it because I don't affirm your opinions like your friends on those biased sites? That I don't choose to believe the unscientific? That I choose to think on my own? Please let me know why I'm closed minded and you aren't.23 -
You asked for evidence-based recommendations, you got them, and then you dropped us some vegan propaganda and said that your mind is already made up. Now you are accusing the community of being closed-minded and offensive. What exactly are you looking for from this community?
Lifting weights and moderate- or high-protein diet has been associated with fat loss, muscle gain, and increased bone density. Some links are provided above, but I can find a lot more if you want.
High animal protein intake does not cause osteoporosis. Low-protein diet has been linked to osteoporosis:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/5/1567S.full
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15546911
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21248199
I am middle-aged, have multi-joint osteoarthritis and widespread joint pain. I have experimented with very-high protein diets. Does not seem to affect my joints either way. I have my share of health problems, but none of them can be attributed to protein intake. I am lean and muscular (at least for a 40-year old desk jockey). Moderate to high protein intake has helped me reach my goals.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and of course fat doesn't "turn into" muscle. When losing as a middle-aged woman gaining muscle isn't going to be an issue, preserving what you have is.
If I had a pill that could do that I would be a billionaire next year!
This has turned now into your thread, so please take over and manipulate it into the direction of your liking.
I did not mean to offend anybody. I wrongfully assumed that people here would be open-minded. You show clearly that this is not the case.
I wish you and all your bodybuilding hard working friend all the best -may you always be right. I would also suggest that in the future you should stay away from posts that might have a different opinion than yours.
Thank you for your insults! Well done
I am a 42 year old woman who isn't a body builder, am I allowed to comment even though my opinion may differ than yours? Many posters here have explained why preserving lean body mass should be a goal for anyone, particularly those who are losing weight and especially as we grow older. Many experienced posters have also tried to explain that your comments about not wanting excessive fat to turn into excessive muscle simply by eating too much protein just isn't going to happen. That isn't close mindedness, that is a discussion of science and fact. Posting a rant blasting the community at large for their beliefs and historical advice, and then refusing to engage in an intelligent debate with those who disagree with you really isn't the most productive approach, do you agree?17 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »There's a million or so people who've commented on the community pages here. Which of them are you hoping will see your soliloquy?
A Nutritionist of course, or any other expert here on the board. A doctor, a biochemist who specializes in the effect of nutrition on long-term health. Someone who knows more than we do.
There are people out there who eat cotton balls and guess what, they lose weight. That doesn't make it right, neither is it healthy.
Are experts here at MFP or do we all just follow blindly guidelines without asking questions?
If you would like sound, personalized, nutritional advice I suggest that you consult with a Registered Dietitian. I would not expect well-qualified experts to spend their days answering questions on MFP or any other website for free. They have to earn a living like the rest of us.6 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and of course fat doesn't "turn into" muscle. When losing as a middle-aged woman gaining muscle isn't going to be an issue, preserving what you have is.
If I had a pill that could do that I would be a billionaire next year!
This has turned now into your thread, so please take over and manipulate it into the direction of your liking.
I did not mean to offend anybody. I wrongfully assumed that people here would be open-minded. You show clearly that this is not the case.
I wish you and all your bodybuilding hard working friend all the best -may you always be right. I would also suggest that in the future you should stay away from posts that might have a different opinion than yours.
Thank you for your insults! Well done
You can choose to be insulted, or choose to be open minded and learn something that might actually help you. Choice is yours...9 -
You seem to believe that only animal products contain protein and that just isn't true. There are lots of vegetarian protein sources. No one is telling you that you have to eat protein but just understand that if you don't eat enough of it you will lose a significant amount of muscle and will probably not be pleased with your results when you are a healthy bmi range but have a high body fat percentage.6
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and of course fat doesn't "turn into" muscle. When losing as a middle-aged woman gaining muscle isn't going to be an issue, preserving what you have is.
If I had a pill that could do that I would be a billionaire next year!
This has turned now into your thread, so please take over and manipulate it into the direction of your liking.
I did not mean to offend anybody. I wrongfully assumed that people here would be open-minded. You show clearly that this is not the case.
I wish you and all your bodybuilding hard working friend all the best -may you always be right. I would also suggest that in the future you should stay away from posts that might have a different opinion than yours.
Thank you for your insults! Well done
You can choose to be insulted, or choose to be open minded and learn something that might actually help you. Choice is yours...
This advice triggered me.7 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and of course fat doesn't "turn into" muscle. When losing as a middle-aged woman gaining muscle isn't going to be an issue, preserving what you have is.
If I had a pill that could do that I would be a billionaire next year!
This has turned now into your thread, so please take over and manipulate it into the direction of your liking.
I did not mean to offend anybody. I wrongfully assumed that people here would be open-minded. You show clearly that this is not the case.
I wish you and all your bodybuilding hard working friend all the best -may you always be right. I would also suggest that in the future you should stay away from posts that might have a different opinion than yours.
Thank you for your insults! Well done
If you take that as an insult you need to re-evaluate your interpretations of what you read. I'm guessing you get insulted a lot.
ETA why is it that the most closed minded people always choose to label others as such? Is it because I don't affirm your opinions like your friends on those biased sites? That I don't choose to believe the unscientific? That I choose to think on my own? Please let me know why I'm closed minded and you aren't.
Geez, Wheelhouse, you and all your insulting science and research and facts. Facts are mean.
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jmbmilholland wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and of course fat doesn't "turn into" muscle. When losing as a middle-aged woman gaining muscle isn't going to be an issue, preserving what you have is.
If I had a pill that could do that I would be a billionaire next year!
This has turned now into your thread, so please take over and manipulate it into the direction of your liking.
I did not mean to offend anybody. I wrongfully assumed that people here would be open-minded. You show clearly that this is not the case.
I wish you and all your bodybuilding hard working friend all the best -may you always be right. I would also suggest that in the future you should stay away from posts that might have a different opinion than yours.
Thank you for your insults! Well done
If you take that as an insult you need to re-evaluate your interpretations of what you read. I'm guessing you get insulted a lot.
ETA why is it that the most closed minded people always choose to label others as such? Is it because I don't affirm your opinions like your friends on those biased sites? That I don't choose to believe the unscientific? That I choose to think on my own? Please let me know why I'm closed minded and you aren't.
Geez, Wheelhouse, you and all your insulting science and research and facts. Facts are mean.
I'm sorry I forgot.
6 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »There's a million or so people who've commented on the community pages here. Which of them are you hoping will see your soliloquy?
A Nutritionist of course, or any other expert here on the board. A doctor, a biochemist who specializes in the effect of nutrition on long-term health. Someone who knows more than we do.
There are people out there who eat cotton balls and guess what, they lose weight. That doesn't make it right, neither is it healthy.
Are experts here at MFP or do we all just follow blindly guidelines without asking questions?
If you would like sound, personalized, nutritional advice I suggest that you consult with a Registered Dietitian. I would not expect well-qualified experts to spend their days answering questions on MFP or any other website for free. They have to earn a living like the rest of us.
In addition to the multitude of people here who have accomplished the health improvements and physique they want through hard work and many informal hours of studying nutrition, there are doctors, biochemists, and registered dietitians that regularly hang out in these forums and answer questions.7 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, and of course fat doesn't "turn into" muscle. When losing as a middle-aged woman gaining muscle isn't going to be an issue, preserving what you have is.
If I had a pill that could do that I would be a billionaire next year!
This has turned now into your thread, so please take over and manipulate it into the direction of your liking.
I did not mean to offend anybody. I wrongfully assumed that people here would be open-minded. You show clearly that this is not the case.
I wish you and all your bodybuilding hard working friend all the best -may you always be right. I would also suggest that in the future you should stay away from posts that might have a different opinion than yours.
Thank you for your insults! Well done
I'm 57. I started overweight (not horribly, but still) and weak. I've had multiple surgeries, various joints, had most of the bones in both feet shattered and have arthritis (degenerative) in both feet.
I came to mfp with a lot of preconceived notions about what was good for me and a lot of bad info from fluff sites and marketing pitches. Here was my dilemma - if I knew what was best I wouldn't have been in the shape I was.
These folks here know what they're talking about and will say what needs to be said to keep facts straight, not what someone wants to hear.
Guess what? What they said to do worked. My way didn't. I'm within 4lbs of my goal weight, can do an hours worth of very intensive exercise, to muscle failure, including all manner of squats....
C'mon now - don't take being corrected personally. If you, just like me, had answers that worked, you wouldn't have come here. Give it a shot.15
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