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Is the 'fat acceptance' movement a good thing?
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ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »candythorns wrote: »I think the issue is food and not ppl. We glorify food. There are foodies. People go out to eat as an event.
Food is amazing. I go out to eat as a event fairly often. But I am not overweight.
Food is a longstanding part of human culture. Appreciating it isn't a problem. Eating more than you need is the problem.
I know this has already been mentioned, but appreciating food has helped me limit calories. I buy really good gelato. It's expensive and satisfying, and those two traits combine to help me limit how much of it I eat at a time. Same goes for cheese and beer. I buy the high end stuff and savor it, and as a result I eat less of it than I used to do.
Most of the things that resulted in my weight gain -- snacking when I wasn't all that hungry, taking an extra portion just because it was there, eating candy that people brought to meetings -- came from an *under-appreciation* of food, not a glorification of it. I didn't gain weight because of foodies and five-star restaurants. I gained weight because I just ate everything on my plate even when it wasn't that good or I didn't really want it.
I know my experience isn't universal, but for many of us, the glorification of food wasn't the problem. Foodies are the people encouraging people to slow down and pay attention to what they're buying and preparing and that is a great strategy for many of us.8 -
Well this actually happened to me at Disney World. A female and her kids got on the transportation bus. Myself and my brother in law, were both sitting and we both got up to let the female sit down. She chose his spot (which was beside me). I was at the end of the seat (bench seats) and she sat to my left. Every time the bus driver stopped she slid into me and pressed me into the end of the bench. And she was well over 250lbs. Not discriminating, but it was an uncomfortable ride all the way to our hotel.I think it's good in the fact that it promotes not being a total *kitten* to someone because they are fat. I mean really, how does someone else being fat affect me?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Heehee I've had broad shouldered men (my husband is one of them) and man spread men sitting next to me and I'm not a fan of stranger man thigh all over me (most times):).
Not saying you aren't being correct and honest about uncomfortableness but it happens sometimes even with non obese folks.4 -
I have been very thin (128lbs and 5'8) and very fat (over 210 lbs.) Currently I am at 172; my highest weight in 6 years. I was hanging around 160 up until the holidays. I can still pull off a size 10 because I am very toned. At 128 there were people who hated me. Fat people can be downright nasty to skinny people. At 210, I felt more accepted by most people, but there were those who clearly thought I was disgusting. My own father said an overweight woman ( meaning me) is worthless, so I better lose it.
Currently, I work with mostly obese people. They leave me out of their lunch plans when they go to McDonalds with their coupons and then go eat in a different room and leave me to eat by myself. At first I thought, "That's not very nice, I am not judging them." But after I thought about it, I had to admit I do judge them. I mean it is hard not to think when you see an obese person eating a big mac and fries with a coke, "What are you doing!" But I would never in anyway let on that I think that. Basically, they make me uncomfortable, and I make them uncomfortable. So I will just have to be lonely at work. I wonder if that is why I subconsciously gained so much over the holidays.
Everyone wants to fit in. Sometimes I find myself eating the junk at work and minimizing my healthy lifestyle. I pretend I am going to go get a piece of cake "later". I guess I just need to do what I need to do and forget about what every one else thinks.
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The only thing I can say is if it was easy to be thin, we'd all be thin.
Of course we would.
My issue with food goes back most of my life, its an emotional one and now that I am post menopause, I can see it was a very hormonal one (it changed after menopause, got easier).
I read on a thread here once, "Its hard to lose weight, its hard to be healthy, its hard to be fat, its hard to be unhealthy - choose your hard". Its this for me.
At 54 I blew my L knee, wear and tear from obesity and a family history of osteo-arthritis. I decided to take control of my health as best I could. I've never looked back.
People want to fit in, if someone is obese its their problem. Accept them.
The governments actively want us to practice healthy behaviours because it saves them money on health care - statistically. You can be overweight/obese and healthy when you are young. I don't think it lasts past 50 though.
In Australia *kitten* junk food is ridiculously cheap, the food industry encourages people to up size and eat too much, poor people often find it easier to eat this kind of food due to circumstance than to 'shop around' for nutritious food.2 -
xmichaelyx wrote: »fattymcrunnerpants wrote: »Point blank I don't think anyone should be shamed for being fat or skinny.
No one can "shame" you unless you feel you're doing something wrong. If you're satisfied with your weight, nothing anyone else does is going to make you feel bad about it.
Children are easy to shame, because they haven't yet developed the skills to understand right from wrong, or have difficulty controlling their emotions. If you're not a child and you think it's possible to be "fat-shamed" (or "slut-shamed," or whatever), then it's time to either grow up, or stop doing things that make you unhappy.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. We're social creatures and social acceptance is something most people strive for on some level.6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Legislation has been attempted to be introduced in one Canadian province along the lines of the granting the obese special privilege.
Which one? And what are they trying to do? Do you have a link to this (please)? I'm curious.
Thanks.
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I used to support FA.
Now I categorically don't. I don't think someone should feel awful or horrible about themselves because of their size, but it's bad science to pretend that being overweight has no health risks. Being overweight/obese is unhealthy, full stop. It's never too late to become healthier, which should be good news to those who are legitimately concerned about their health and wellness.5 -
carolyn000000 wrote: »I have been very thin (128lbs and 5'8) and very fat (over 210 lbs.) Currently I am at 172; my highest weight in 6 years. I was hanging around 160 up until the holidays. I can still pull off a size 10 because I am very toned. At 128 there were people who hated me. Fat people can be downright nasty to skinny people. At 210, I felt more accepted by most people, but there were those who clearly thought I was disgusting. My own father said an overweight woman ( meaning me) is worthless, so I better lose it.
Currently, I work with mostly obese people. They leave me out of their lunch plans when they go to McDonalds with their coupons and then go eat in a different room and leave me to eat by myself. At first I thought, "That's not very nice, I am not judging them." But after I thought about it, I had to admit I do judge them. I mean it is hard not to think when you see an obese person eating a big mac and fries with a coke, "What are you doing!" But I would never in anyway let on that I think that. Basically, they make me uncomfortable, and I make them uncomfortable. So I will just have to be lonely at work. I wonder if that is why I subconsciously gained so much over the holidays.
Everyone wants to fit in. Sometimes I find myself eating the junk at work and minimizing my healthy lifestyle. I pretend I am going to go get a piece of cake "later". I guess I just need to do what I need to do and forget about what every one else thinks.
This was me exactly. When I was surrounded by obese people at work (probably 70%) I felt like the outcast. Sitting at my desk eating my salad. One time they sent a sheet around for pizza orders and skipped me entirely. I eat pizza. I got over it. As far as cake and goodies, I would just skip them but people still will bring you a piece because "you just have to try it". I'd graciously accept and then toss it out when nobody was looking. Should I have said NO outright? Probably, but nobody wants to hurt someone's feelings.
Keep doing the right thing for yourself and find acceptance elsewhere.2 -
I do get the impression though that a lot of the Fat Acceptance movement is pushed by manufacturers so that their food items continue to sell. Take a look at half of the crap they sell in stores, if they reduced sugar, carbs, or used less sodium or better ingredients the calorie content of their crap food would be much less. Don't get me wrong, I love junk food like everyone else, but if there's a healthier option I've learned to choose it because I no longer want to be fat. If, however, I accepted myself as a fat person I would have no issue whatsoever filling my cart with chips, sweet snacks, and crappy prepared food on every trip to the store like I used to do. Now I hit the meat isle, pick up what I need, then I hit the veggie isle, maybe the peanut butter, and frozen vegetables, and dairy. I'm then 90% done with my shopping. I may pick up bottled water, the occasional pack of diet soda, but I skip the chip isle, just about everything in the cereal isle, and maybe hit the canned goods on the way out but I limit what I buy based on sodium content. 65% of the items in my local grocery store are of no interest to me these days. I think that's motivation enough to fund some campaigns for Fat Acceptance.
Just my humble opinion, I'll go back to wearing my tinfoil hat now... 3 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Legislation has been attempted to be introduced in one Canadian province along the lines of the granting the obese special privilege.
Which one? And what are they trying to do? Do you have a link to this (please)? I'm curious.
Thanks.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-liberals-weight-human-rights-1.38647881 -
My take is that it's important to treat people, as people.
For me, and I may have a skewed perspective, Fat Acceptance should be about accepting that people who are fat are still deserving of your time, interest, love, club, fashion, etc. You should not be excluding anyone. The error here is thinking that Fat Acceptance is the same as "Not Healthy" acceptance. I think everyone should try their best to be healthy, for so many reasons.
Although it IS a factor, fat does not necessarily equate to unhealthy. Fat is itself a wishy washy term that has no bearing on reality, because everyone has their own definition. At 19 a size 3 is often considered fat. Every pound on a scale is not a 'fat' pound.
It would be great if we could extricate the term fat from the implications and social stereotypes. We "have" fat - not we "are" fat. I also have muscle, and feelings, and problems and struggles and successes - yup - just like everyone else.
We are all human, and we have rights as humans.
To me Fat acceptance is simply an effort to remind us that we should all be included.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Legislation has been attempted to be introduced in one Canadian province along the lines of the granting the obese special privilege.
Which one? And what are they trying to do? Do you have a link to this (please)? I'm curious.
Thanks.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-liberals-weight-human-rights-1.3864788
Do they not realize surgery is a lot riskier when there patient is obese? There are actual medical reasons- X rays are not as clear, there is more tissue to have to slice through, organs are 'fatty'. Weirdly enough just because someone tells you 'no' doesn't mean they are doing it just to be mean.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Legislation has been attempted to be introduced in one Canadian province along the lines of the granting the obese special privilege.
Which one? And what are they trying to do? Do you have a link to this (please)? I'm curious.
Thanks.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-liberals-weight-human-rights-1.3864788
From the article: "Lindsey Mazur, a dietitian, said some overweight people she works with are being denied surgeries and other care unless they lose weight first. In the workforce, some people are losing out on promotions because of their weight, she added."
This sounds like they want equal access to medical treatment and job opportunities, not special privileges.2 -
ianmaclatchie wrote: »My take is that it's important to treat people, as people.
For me, and I may have a skewed perspective, Fat Acceptance should be about accepting that people who are fat are still deserving of your time, interest, love, club, fashion, etc. You should not be excluding anyone. The error here is thinking that Fat Acceptance is the same as "Not Healthy" acceptance. I think everyone should try their best to be healthy, for so many reasons.
Although it IS a factor, fat does not necessarily equate to unhealthy. Fat is itself a wishy washy term that has no bearing on reality, because everyone has their own definition. At 19 a size 3 is often considered fat. Every pound on a scale is not a 'fat' pound.
It would be great if we could extricate the term fat from the implications and social stereotypes. We "have" fat - not we "are" fat. I also have muscle, and feelings, and problems and struggles and successes - yup - just like everyone else.
We are all human, and we have rights as humans.
To me Fat acceptance is simply an effort to remind us that we should all be included.
I completely agree with this, the problem (as has been described in-depth in this thread and others) is that the fat acceptance movement has been hijacked/is being pushed by people who are the exact opposite of this, i.e. by people who will shame you for being thin or for trying to lose weight.1 -
When the time comes, only God our lord and savior will judge me!
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janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Legislation has been attempted to be introduced in one Canadian province along the lines of the granting the obese special privilege.
Which one? And what are they trying to do? Do you have a link to this (please)? I'm curious.
Thanks.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-liberals-weight-human-rights-1.3864788
From the article: "Lindsey Mazur, a dietitian, said some overweight people she works with are being denied surgeries and other care unless they lose weight first. In the workforce, some people are losing out on promotions because of their weight, she added."
This sounds like they want equal access to medical treatment and job opportunities, not special privileges.
Agreed, "special treatment", to me, indicates options that aren't or shouldn't be available to everyone. Access to medical care, and equal treatment in job performance is not special treatment.
I'll never in my life forget what a surgeon said to me after removing part of my thyroid. I had gone to him as I had a tumor growing on it. While I was in the hospital he told me that he hadn't made an effort to hide the large scar because I was "Fat, unattractive and didn't deserve to have the scar hidden". Surgeons USEUALLY try to cut along the neck folds to hide an obvious scar. I made a complaint to the hospital board but since I'm not a protected class nothing happened. That kind of behavior is not OK at all.
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Spliner1969 wrote: »I do get the impression though that a lot of the Fat Acceptance movement is pushed by manufacturers so that their food items continue to sell. Take a look at half of the crap they sell in stores, if they reduced sugar, carbs, or used less sodium or better ingredients the calorie content of their crap food would be much less. Don't get me wrong, I love junk food like everyone else, but if there's a healthier option I've learned to choose it because I no longer want to be fat. If, however, I accepted myself as a fat person I would have no issue whatsoever filling my cart with chips, sweet snacks, and crappy prepared food on every trip to the store like I used to do. Now I hit the meat isle, pick up what I need, then I hit the veggie isle, maybe the peanut butter, and frozen vegetables, and dairy. I'm then 90% done with my shopping. I may pick up bottled water, the occasional pack of diet soda, but I skip the chip isle, just about everything in the cereal isle, and maybe hit the canned goods on the way out but I limit what I buy based on sodium content. 65% of the items in my local grocery store are of no interest to me these days. I think that's motivation enough to fund some campaigns for Fat Acceptance. Just my humble opinion, I'll go back to wearing my tinfoil hat now...
This is essentially the plot of the movie "Branded". Strange movie, but a must see for anyone in marketing.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Legislation has been attempted to be introduced in one Canadian province along the lines of the granting the obese special privilege.
Which one? And what are they trying to do? Do you have a link to this (please)? I'm curious.
Thanks.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-liberals-weight-human-rights-1.3864788
Maybe just semantics but I wouldn't consider protection from discrimination the same thing as granting special privilege. Protection from discrimination is like saying a store can't kick out handicapped persons. Special privilege would be handicapped persons are allowed to shop an hour earlier than everyone else. Or are granted an extra discount. At least, that's how I would define those terms.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Legislation has been attempted to be introduced in one Canadian province along the lines of the granting the obese special privilege.
Which one? And what are they trying to do? Do you have a link to this (please)? I'm curious.
Thanks.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-liberals-weight-human-rights-1.3864788
From the article: "Lindsey Mazur, a dietitian, said some overweight people she works with are being denied surgeries and other care unless they lose weight first. In the workforce, some people are losing out on promotions because of their weight, she added."
This sounds like they want equal access to medical treatment and job opportunities, not special privileges.
That promotion story was sketchy as all get out in the first place, imo. It's straight out of a tumblr fantasy.
How exactly do you prove that a fat person was passed over for a job promotion?
Medical treatment? See the post above yours. They want treatment that is not safe at their weight. They want treatment that they don't fit the equipment for.
I have read countless tales on reddit from nurses and doctors who have cared for the very, very obese (think over 400 pounds) who have explained in clinical detail exactly why it's these services aren't provided and why weight loss needs to happen.
It's not discrimination. It's a safety issue.6 -
ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Legislation has been attempted to be introduced in one Canadian province along the lines of the granting the obese special privilege.
Which one? And what are they trying to do? Do you have a link to this (please)? I'm curious.
Thanks.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-liberals-weight-human-rights-1.3864788
Maybe just semantics but I wouldn't consider protection from discrimination the same thing as granting special privilege. Protection from discrimination is like saying a store can't kick out handicapped persons. Special privilege would be handicapped persons are allowed to shop an hour earlier than everyone else. Or are granted an extra discount. At least, that's how I would define those terms.
Special privilege as a protected class is what I should have said.
My whole premise here is that obesity is a condition that is self-inflicted.
Look, short men are turned down for jobs and discriminated against in that regard as well.
Should they be given special protection against discrimination under the law?
That would make them a protected class and give them special privilege.
Editing to add further rambling thoughts. So far, anti-discrimination legislation is geared towards things like race, age, gender, and disability. The common thread among all of these is that they are all things which cannot be changed.
Being obese is a self-inflicted and maintained condition that though being difficult to face, can be changed. This isn't the solution. Giving up on the obese and granting them protection as a class under civil rights law is furthering the sea of voices who think it's just hunky dory to be 300 or more pounds (all of these people are young-ish, btw) because they're "fierce" and don't want to deal with the real issues they face with food.5
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