"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.

NannersBalletLegs wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

All I can say is you and I must be reading very different threads. I see posters go out of their way to mention "but, nutrition" all the time.

And I'm sorry, but it is kind of condescending to suggest that the average newbie doesn't realize that nutrition is important without being explicitly told that in every single reply. I don't think the concept that "weight loss" and "health" are two related but different things is such an intellectual leap for most.

We must be, because all I'm seeing in this thread (with about two exceptions), is a bunch of people responding with things like, "No thanks. I'll take my chili cheese fries over your broccoli" or "Fall on your face eating organic chia seeds, you weirdo. I'm gonna go eat buffalo wings and chocolate and pizza." Those aren't exact quotes of course, but it's the general spirit of much of the commentary in this thread. I guess everyone prefers flame wars to actual conversations just like in every other internet forum.

A lot of people are really ignorant about basic nutrition. It's not necessarily insulting people to offer nutritional advice or to assume that they may not have a lot of knowledge. I was very uneducated (and pretty indifferent) about that sort of thing when I was really young and am still learning more all the time. As I enter my mid-thirties, I find that my interest in it has only grown, because I'd really like to avoid osteoporosis, colon cancer, and other unpleasantness as I age. Anyone who wants to remind me to eat my leafy greens and take a vitamin every now and again is okay in my book.

But we aren't giving advice to a newbie here. Someone decided to post a rant about how all of these random people giving free advice on the internet aren't doing it right, and we're responding to that, right?

Here's the thing: I'm not a doctor. I'm not every poster's mom. I'm not a paid consultant. If they ask - Is it true I can lose weight while eating junk food? My answer is yes, because I believe that will help them. I have no responsibility here beyond posting my opinion. It's not my job to teach them about nutrition, or post a 12 paragraph synopsis summarizing every possible eventuality they might run into. If they want more info, they can ask. And if someone doesn't think that's enough info, they are more than welcome to post their own far more detailed response in whatever thread they want. Rather than starting this thread-rant, OP could have set aside some time every day and contributed by posting his own free advice on the many newbie threads that pop up every day, instead of criticizing the people who bother to do that.

Lillymoo01 wrote: »

dania201 wrote: »

I'm not an expert at weight loss or anything, but I do think that you need to let people have some lee-way to eat the things they need to get by, honestly

Not everyone can be a kale freak all the time lol

I made homemade pizza last night and decided to add kale to see what it would be like. I actually enjoyed the flavour and liked the fact that there was more colour. Surprising on what you experiment with when you are trying to hit nutritional goals. Today's experiment was scrambled eggs with tuna.

I like chopped up dill pickles in my scrambled eggs.

The "garbage advice" has helped me more than I can explain so I'll say this...

One mans garbage is another's treasure.

jdb3388 wrote: »

.......MOST people, especially larger people, run out of calories waaaaay before they become satiated. If you are a 135lb woman that's 5'9 which I think was an example somewhere in this thread, and you're only eating at a 500 calorie deficit, no *kitten* you are gonna be full before you run out of calories. You're small, even if you aren't at your "goal" you are going to feel satiated.

Way too much assuming going on here. I have the appetite of a 300 pound linebacker, whether I weigh 115 or 200 (I am a small, older woman). I am very rarely "satisfied" for any length of time, despite eating a large-ish volume of food (which I do by lowering fat content and going with vegetables, whole grains, and lean protein). I get what you're saying in your original post as far as still being hungry if I "ate what I want," because I want 4-5 slices of thick-crust pizza, not 1. I want 2 massive bowls of ice cream, not 65 grams. I will ALWAYS want those portions. But I've learned self-control and discipline and worked on much of my reasons for emotional eating.

I think OP that you are taking the advice of just eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories a little out of context. The idea about it is to get people in the mindset of not demonising food. The chances are emotional eater, fussy eater whatever kind of eater you are that you come on to mfp with the same mindset as you (I use the general you here) had when you followed any diet. That there are foods you can and can't have. The experienced people on the forum have been there, done that, it demonises foods you love and crave even more because in your head you have said you can't have them because they are bad for you. That is setting yourself up for failure from the start. The idea a lot of us experienced folk (yep I'm counting myself in that group) are trying to get across is that getting to and staying at a healthy weight is the start of a lifestyle, not a diet then go back to the old ways. In a lifestyle you are not going to eat 100% healthy all of the time, life just doesn't work that way so try and include the foods you enjoy, don't force yourself to eat foods you don't because they are supposed to be good for you and don't beat yourself up if you have a bad day and go over its life. But be open to try new foods that you haven't had before that may be less calorie dense than your usual.

Sometimes these things get very shortened in a post but you have to realise that the same questions get asked time and time again year after year, people want to help but probably shorten their response a little making it difficult to interpret correctly and therefore people can take it out of context a little. This is why there are some great stickied posts at the top of the forums. In general they just want to spare newbies the same mistakes they made though.

I find it a little offensive you assume we have forgotten what it is like to be fat, I certainly don't, I'm close to goal now but I don't realise how thin I am in comparison to my morbidly obese self, I still feel like that fat girl I was and am surprised time and time again when I look in the mirror.

And you know there is nothing wrong with cutting foods completely for a while, I couldn't have cookies and biscuits (in the UK context of biscuits) in the house as they were my emotional crutch, it forced me to find other ways to deal with my emotions.

MFP is designed so that you can lose weight in whatever way works for you within a calorie defecit and that is what is so great about it. But if asking for advice on the forums, 100% of the time, you will hear what has worked for the responder to the question, of course if you don't want to hear: "you can eat whatever you like in moderation within your calorie allotment" then you can ignore that advice.

jdb3388 wrote: »

People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.

People can, and do, eat all foods in moderation, and lose weight. Because you, and others, may not be able to eat this way, doesn't mean that other people can not be successful. Your "advice isn't helpful in practice", for everyone.
For me, it is better learning to eat in moderation and portion control, preparing myself for a sustainable way of eating for life. May not work for everyone, but different things work for different people.

BTW, the statistics for keeping the weight off successfully for over 5 years are very discouraging (over 80% of people gain the weight back, some gaining even more than they lost). Perhaps teaching yourself portion control and moderation may help some of us be in the low percent that keep the weight off. Worth a try IMHO.

Here is what I am seeing in this thread, many, many people who have successfully lost weight and kept it off for years. Then I see a few people who are new and/or struggling with weight loss. One side is telling the other side that they are doing it wrong. See, I can generalize too. I took the time not so long ago to do the research on the nutritional breakdown of a slice of Mellow Mushroom Mighty Meaty pizza, while I dont remember the exact numbers, it came out very good in terms of macro/micro nutrient content. It is calorie dense, I can't eat it everyday, but it is far from junk food. I can work a Big Mac into my week with no problem. What some of the detractors fail to realize is, most of us already tried restriction and we already know that it doesn't work. Keep telling yourself that my pizza every three or four weeks is setting me back and your (fill in the blank) is far superior, get back with me 36 months from now.

I have been giving this a lot of thought. Getting newbies to start with CICO is the best place to start with transitioning to the new them. They start with the very basics of weight loss. They realise that there is no food that has to be avoided at all costs. From here people would often transition to paying more attention to macros and IIFYM way of thinking which will make them think more about nutrition. They can still easily fit in treats but realise that care needs to taken to properly fit these into their nutritional needs. This leads to healthier food choices in general and working out which treats are important to them and how often they can be consumed but overall their diet is so much healthier.
Some go to greater extremes by limiting so much and sticking to 'clean food' (whatever that is) which works for them. However some of these same people then avoid social situations involving food because of an inability to stray from their chosen diet. If this works for them and they are achieving their goals then great. However, most of us are social beings. Generally we need these occassions for our mental health. There is no point being physically well if your mental health is out of kilter. Health is a mixer of diet, exercise and mental wellbeing. We need to work out a healthy balance of all 3 to achieve our best health possible. For many, a diet allowing for these types of meals and treats is essential for our overall wellbeing.

Actually, whenever I have eaten "clean" for a decent period of time, I have always fallen off the wagon and binged on foods that I had been restricting myself from having. Since I've been allowing myself treats built into most of my days, I haven't binged as much. It's all about moderation.