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Fat Acceptance Movement

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  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    Theo166 wrote: »
    Just watched several episodes of "My 600-lb Life"

    What I see is an almost complete lack of nutrition knowledge by the families, every 'patient' is surrounded by enablers. They all seem to be afraid of making the 'subject' mad. One mom was sneaking her daughter fast food because she was afraid her 600lb girl was going to starve to death.

    I was also surprised at the lack of nutrition advice pushed by the show. In 5 episodes I've seen just one Nutritionist do a house call to educate the woman and her family, but that didn't even happen until 11 months into the journey and was a one-off visit. Most of them were eating fast food on a daily basis, with no calorie counting.

    Just like with the Biggest Loser show, this genre is devoid of including practical advice to help the average viewer.

    I believe in real life, nutrition counseling is if not required, strongly encouraged with fat removal/bariatric surgery. However the counseling doesn't make as good TV (sarcasm) as a 600 pound person eating 4 bags of food from a fast food place or struggling to get off the couch.

    Unfortunately nobody wants to be educated anymore. I remember when The Learning Channel started, they actually had programing that would educate as opposed to shows featuring trashy people buying a dress, talking about their big fat fabulous life, while slowly killing themselves, and a guy with who knows how many wives, etc.
  • Gallowmere1984
    Gallowmere1984 Posts: 6,626 Member
    metalmeow1 wrote: »
    Having always been fat, I can unapologetically say that FA is disgusting because it promotes slow suicide.
    No, you should not love your body at every size. You should love your friends and family. You should love them enough to fight for them, to be there as long as possible for them. You should always actively be taking good care of your body. You wouldn't tell a heroine/drug addict to love their substance, would you? Why would you tell someone with an eating disorder that they're normal?!
    Do you ever see 90 year old 600lb people?

    And another thing. I've been made fun of my entire life. And I still choose freedom of speech, jokes, and ridicule to a dystopian political correct Orwellian world. Now I can laugh at the joke's thrown at me. Offense is taken not given.

    You just won this thread. <3
  • antinomiancelestial
    antinomiancelestial Posts: 36 Member
    I think the fat acceptance movement does have some good points. There is a lot of size-based discrimination in our culture. I've known people who were really sick but who couldn't get medical care because, according to their doctors, it wasn't even worth testing them for medical diseases as long as they were fat. It's troubling, especially considering how some serious medical conditions can actually cause obesity (think hypothyroidism). Just like people with any other medical condition, fat people should be treated like human beings and not judged by people who lack the full story. For example, a lot of times it's assumed that all fat people simply struggle with self-control when the fact is that some have medical conditions, medications, and other obstacles preventing them from looking their best. Having people assume you're eating trash and throwing your life away when you're actually trying and just not there yet can be really disheartening.

    That said, fat acceptance isn't just about treating fat people with more dignity and respect than our culture presently does. It often comes with the idea that there is no correlation whatsoever between excess weight and a decline in health. Like others have said, watching "My 600 Pound Life" makes it pretty obvious that that isn't the case. There's a wide (no pun intended) spectrum between being thin and being 600 pounds, but being fat is generally a warning sign that one's body is out of balance.

    Additionally, fat positivity sometimes comes with the idea that all sizes are objectively attractive. I don't mind the idea that anyone/anything can be beautiful, but when I'm being called a fatphobic bigot for finding slimmer people more attractive than people above a certain size, I get kind of irritated. What happened to the idea that we can't help what we're attracted to?

    I think the fat acceptance movement is filling a gap that nothing else is filling right now, unfortunately. There are people who go on diets, do so desperately and unhealthily, and need to be told that being large isn't worth destroying themselves over. That said, I've seen too many people decide that "whelp; dieting was hard the first time I tried it, so that must be my body's way of saying it likes being obese." I've also seen people equate their partners still finding them attractive at an obese size with obesity being non-problematic.

    I've also noticed that a lot of fat people seem to have some degree of mental illness/emotional trouble keeping them in a cycle of unhealthy eating. Mental illness shouldn't be stigmatized, and people should be free to choose whether or not to seek treatment/how much treatment to seek/etc. That all being said, I think overeating is a problematic behavior just like drinking is a problematic behavior. Those types of actions negatively impact other people and put the person doing them's life at risk. Isn't there a way to destigmatize mental health conditions without saying "fat is healthy" or "there's literally nothing dangerous about being so large you can barely walk?" Isn't there a way to let people make the choices that make sense for them without saying "there's literally no health difference between having a salad for lunch and having four cheeseburgers?"

    There are probably more reasonable fat-positive folks than the ones I've run into, but I wouldn't know.

    *Sigh.* I get that some of my friends would find me extremely fat-phobic for writing this, but it's how I feel.
  • GemstoneofHeart
    GemstoneofHeart Posts: 865 Member
    antinomiancelestial wrote: »
    I've also noticed that a lot of fat people seem to have some degree of mental illness/emotional trouble keeping them in a cycle of unhealthy eating. Mental illness shouldn't be stigmatized, and people should be free to choose whether or not to seek treatment/how much treatment to seek/etc. That all being said, I think overeating is a problematic behavior just like drinking is a problematic behavior. Those types of actions negatively impact other people and put the person doing them's life at risk. Isn't there a way to destigmatize mental health conditions without saying "fat is healthy" or "there's literally nothing dangerous about being so large you can barely walk?" Isn't there a way to let people make the choices that make sense for them without saying "there's literally no health difference between having a salad for lunch and having four

    This. I don't like the fat acceptance movement at all, because mental health is seriously at play. I know because I suffer from it myself. My binging is anxiety related. If you are accepting fat as it is, you are denying yourself the mental care that you deserve!
  • tomteboda
    tomteboda Posts: 2,171 Member
    GemstoneofHeart wrote: »
    This. I don't like the fat acceptance movement at all, because mental health is seriously at play. I know because I suffer from it myself. My binging is anxiety related. If you are accepting fat as it is, you are denying yourself the mental care that you deserve!

    Except for a lot of people the feelings of worthlessness associated with the stigmas against fat and the biases against fat people will simply feed mental illness problems instead of encouraging people to get help.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    antinomiancelestial wrote: »
    I think the fat acceptance movement does have some good points. There is a lot of size-based discrimination in our culture. I've known people who were really sick but who couldn't get medical care because, according to their doctors, it wasn't even worth testing them for medical diseases as long as they were fat. It's troubling, especially considering how some serious medical conditions can actually cause obesity (think hypothyroidism). Just like people with any other medical condition, fat people should be treated like human beings and not judged by people who lack the full story. For example, a lot of times it's assumed that all fat people simply struggle with self-control when the fact is that some have medical conditions, medications, and other obstacles preventing them from looking their best. Having people assume you're eating trash and throwing your life away when you're actually trying and just not there yet can be really disheartening.

    That said, fat acceptance isn't just about treating fat people with more dignity and respect than our culture presently does. It often comes with the idea that there is no correlation whatsoever between excess weight and a decline in health. Like others have said, watching "My 600 Pound Life" makes it pretty obvious that that isn't the case. There's a wide (no pun intended) spectrum between being thin and being 600 pounds, but being fat is generally a warning sign that one's body is out of balance.

    Additionally, fat positivity sometimes comes with the idea that all sizes are objectively attractive. I don't mind the idea that anyone/anything can be beautiful, but when I'm being called a fatphobic bigot for finding slimmer people more attractive than people above a certain size, I get kind of irritated. What happened to the idea that we can't help what we're attracted to?

    I think the fat acceptance movement is filling a gap that nothing else is filling right now, unfortunately. There are people who go on diets, do so desperately and unhealthily, and need to be told that being large isn't worth destroying themselves over. That said, I've seen too many people decide that "whelp; dieting was hard the first time I tried it, so that must be my body's way of saying it likes being obese." I've also seen people equate their partners still finding them attractive at an obese size with obesity being non-problematic.

    I've also noticed that a lot of fat people seem to have some degree of mental illness/emotional trouble keeping them in a cycle of unhealthy eating. Mental illness shouldn't be stigmatized, and people should be free to choose whether or not to seek treatment/how much treatment to seek/etc. That all being said, I think overeating is a problematic behavior just like drinking is a problematic behavior. Those types of actions negatively impact other people and put the person doing them's life at risk. Isn't there a way to destigmatize mental health conditions without saying "fat is healthy" or "there's literally nothing dangerous about being so large you can barely walk?" Isn't there a way to let people make the choices that make sense for them without saying "there's literally no health difference between having a salad for lunch and having four cheeseburgers?"

    There are probably more reasonable fat-positive folks than the ones I've run into, but I wouldn't know.

    *Sigh.* I get that some of my friends would find me extremely fat-phobic for writing this, but it's how I feel.

    There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding metabolic diseases and the extent of their impact. Hypothyroidism can cause ~10 lbs of weight increase due to increased cellular absorption (water weight) during periods of hormonal shift but does not cause obesity. From clinical observation T3/T4 impacts BMR/REE by ~5%.

    There is an equal amount of evidence suggesting that the increase in hypothyroidism and other metabolic diseases is due to obesity. Hormones are free cycling and it is difficult if not impossible for a body to maintain balance if glands are overworked.

    The solution to this issue is to address the symptoms and root cause. The problem with these acceptance movements is that they attempt to normalize that which is abnormal.
  • brittyn3
    brittyn3 Posts: 481 Member
    edited March 2017
    I think on the level of self acceptance and loving who you are - it's a commendable movement. I think it's important to treat everyone with the same respect and love we all expect. I also think it's important to not shame anyone for their size. However, I think as a society in whole - it's scary that we are just accepting either ourselves, loved ones, etc to be unhealthy and have higher risk of health concerns. (All of this is on the assumption you do not have a medical condition etc.)

    I try not to judge people. I hate being judged myself. But I have a hard time seeing overweight children. Why would you want your child to be subjected to ridicule their entire life? The fact of the matter is, we live in a world that judges... and judges hard. It's sooooo sad that our society thinks they can dehumanize people. Everyone deserves to be treated like they matter... because they all do.

    We should start teaching calories and what they mean, along with nutrition. If you explained to someone how easy it is (in theory - baring no health issues) to lose weight... more people would be doing it. I think people are accepting being fat, because they think it's next to impossible to lose. Or it means spending hours upon hours in the gym, and that's just not true.

    It takes an extremely strong and confident person to defy the norms of society, which are far and few between. Long spiel later - why set yourself up for a more difficult and challenged life, when something can be done about it. It'll take a lot of willpower, and some people might not think it's worth that... and that's ok. But other people might have never been given that push.

    Again, I commend anyone who is confident no matter what shape or size. The world can use more confidence and self love like that.
  • Afura
    Afura Posts: 2,054 Member
    I'll agree. Being morbidly obese, I don't love myself, and that's hard on the emotions especially when you're trying to lose weight (why should I bother, I'm *insert negative statement*). We should love ourselves for who we are, not what we look at. That does not mean that just because we love ourselves we should ignore health concerns, no matter the size.
  • brittyn3
    brittyn3 Posts: 481 Member
    Afura wrote: »
    I'll agree. Being morbidly obese, I don't love myself, and that's hard on the emotions especially when you're trying to lose weight (why should I bother, I'm *insert negative statement*). We should love ourselves for who we are, not what we look at. That does not mean that just because we love ourselves we should ignore health concerns, no matter the size.

    The fact that you're "bothering" to lose weight - is because you love yourself. You don't have to love the way you look at the moment. That's ok. You just have to love yourself enough to want to do better for yourself.

    Weight loss is never easy. When you're stripping down the layers - literally... it's when you find out more about yourself than you likely knew before.
  • ekim2016
    ekim2016 Posts: 1,199 Member
    True, but I want to be slender like in college days again in hopes it will rejuvenate my spirit as well as help my health...
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    Afura wrote: »
    I'll agree. Being morbidly obese, I don't love myself, and that's hard on the emotions especially when you're trying to lose weight (why should I bother, I'm *insert negative statement*). We should love ourselves for who we are, not what we look at. That does not mean that just because we love ourselves we should ignore health concerns, no matter the size.

    Is this really true or do you not love the behavior? In a sort of 'love the sinner, hate the sin' way. We personalize our behavior to the point where it becomes destructive.

    I can't get too wrapped up in aesthetics as this is all fleeting. Love yourself and others for who they are and what they do, not what they look like.
  • antinomiancelestial
    antinomiancelestial Posts: 36 Member
    @Afura - Interesting. It sounds like you draw a distinction between loving ourselves and loving aspects of ourselves that are unhealthy. That's a good way of looking at it, in my opinion.

    @brittyn3 - Obese children are really sad to see. In addition to the bullying they deal with, obese children are set up for a lifetime of unhealthy eating. It's confusing to me sometimes how parents don't see their children becoming much, much heavier than their peers and start to realize that something's wrong. I can see not noticing a problem in oneself, but once people pass unhealthy behaviors onto their children, I start to wonder how they just don't see it.

    @CSARdiver - That's interesting information, although I still think that doctors should be willing to take complaints from larger patients seriously rather than dismissing everything as weight-related. I've heard of people having undiagnosed tumors, even, because doctors just assumed whatever was wrong had to do with weight/could wait to be dealt with until the person was thinner.

    @tomteboda - That's definitely true. I'm not sure what the right answer is when both obesity and the measures taken to eliminate obesity can be full of pathology/unhealthy thinking.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    antinomiancelestial wrote: »
    @Afura - Interesting. It sounds like you draw a distinction between loving ourselves and loving aspects of ourselves that are unhealthy. That's a good way of looking at it, in my opinion.

    @brittyn3 - Obese children are really sad to see. In addition to the bullying they deal with, obese children are set up for a lifetime of unhealthy eating. It's confusing to me sometimes how parents don't see their children becoming much, much heavier than their peers and start to realize that something's wrong. I can see not noticing a problem in oneself, but once people pass unhealthy behaviors onto their children, I start to wonder how they just don't see it.

    @CSARdiver - That's interesting information, although I still think that doctors should be willing to take complaints from larger patients seriously rather than dismissing everything as weight-related. I've heard of people having undiagnosed tumors, even, because doctors just assumed whatever was wrong had to do with weight/could wait to be dealt with until the person was thinner.

    @tomteboda - That's definitely true. I'm not sure what the right answer is when both obesity and the measures taken to eliminate obesity can be full of pathology/unhealthy thinking.

    How serious does one take complaints based on false information? When a patient comes in not "feeling right" and is 200 lbs overweight how do you make an informed diagnosis? The additional weight masks what is going on the body and dramatically increases the challenge of making an accurate diagnosis. Don't blame a symptom of the root cause because the root cause is politically incorrect to address.

    I recommend anyone spend time working in a free clinic before weighing in on this. You want an insight into what's wrong with healthcare volunteer at a free clinic for two weeks. You can be trained as a pre-screener in a few hours and taking vitals and information to relay to the physicians.
  • Theo166
    Theo166 Posts: 2,564 Member
    I don't watch medical shows but I'm curious how often shows like House M.D. discuss obesity, it's impact, and how it can be tamed.

    Any medical drama fans out there?
  • heiliskrimsli
    heiliskrimsli Posts: 735 Member
    Theo166 wrote: »
    I don't watch medical shows but I'm curious how often shows like House M.D. discuss obesity, it's impact, and how it can be tamed.

    Any medical drama fans out there?

    As I recall, only once, and that was with a HAES style patient who was completely immobile and depicted from a very HAES viewpoint - House had to treat him without focusing on the obesity at all, and of course it ends up that obesity to the point of immobility doesn't cause this guy's health problem.
  • Theo166
    Theo166 Posts: 2,564 Member
    heiliskrimsli wrote: »
    Theo166 wrote: »
    I don't watch medical shows but I'm curious how often shows like House M.D. discuss obesity, it's impact, and how it can be tamed.

    Any medical drama fans out there?

    As I recall, only once, and that was with a HAES style patient who was completely immobile and depicted from a very HAES viewpoint - House had to treat him without focusing on the obesity at all, and of course it ends up that obesity to the point of immobility doesn't cause this guy's health problem.

    Yea, someone slogging it out and losing weight over six months, then coming off there meds doesn't make good drama, though it is dramatic.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    House isn't on anymore, but the concept was someone with a weird inexplicable ailment that no one else could figure out, but House eventually did (while being as offputting as possible to everyone and chumming around with his pal from Dead Poet's Society). He's, of course, a Holmes figure. (Eventually it went off the rails, IMO, so I don't really know what happened in the later seasons.) Point is that dealing with obesity-caused health issues would not really be on the agenda.

    Many of the rest seem to focus on emergency type things or crazy surgeries, but then I don't really watch any of the current ones. (I watched most of ER, back in the day.)
  • KassLea22
    KassLea22 Posts: 112 Member
    I am a thin person, but I can see the positive side of the movement. I don't think anyone should spend their life miserable and hating themselves no matter what they look like or what weight they are. So in a way I feel like this movement gives people a support network and self-confidence. However on the flipside of that, in my personal opinion this movement leads to exclusion and enabling mindsets. I've heard it a million times: thin doesn't mean healthy. And that is true to an extent, but if you are closer to a normal weight you're more likely to be all around healthier. And although it's not the intent I don't believe, that statement comes off as very belittling to those of us who are thinner. How other people live their lives really does not affect me, but I do have my own personal opinions about them. Personally I think everyone should be striving to led a healthy, Active life. When you're healthy you are less likely to develop serious health complications, you'll live longer, you will be able to do more things, and studies have proven that mental health will be better. From an outside perspective, this movement enables overweight people to not lose weight and that it's okay to be obese. And to be honest, talking strictly healthwise, it's not OK to be Obese. I'm all about body positivity and not shaming anyone no matter what they look like, but I also think it's important to be realistic. And to me this movement tells people that it's not important to be healthy. I feel like people turn to this movement when they have given up because it enables the mindset that they don't need to be thinner and almost is an easy way out. But again, I've never struggled with weight so in a way I feel like I probably have a skewed perspective. I think a lot of people probably do use this movement as a support network while they are losing weight, but you can't ignore that some people are enabled. I think you can love yourself and want to pursue a healthier lifestyle at the same time. But again this is just my personal opinion from an outside perspective,
  • FatPorkyChop
    FatPorkyChop Posts: 83 Member
    tomteboda wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    How serious does one take complaints based on false information? When a patient comes in not "feeling right" and is 200 lbs overweight how do you make an informed diagnosis? The additional weight masks what is going on the body and dramatically increases the challenge of making an accurate diagnosis. Don't blame a symptom of the root cause because the root cause is politically incorrect to address.

    This actually just makes me see red. I got to a point I nearly died because of this. You see, I have systemic lupus erythematosus. However, Over the last 20 years the number of doctors who dismissed all of my symptoms and problems as being due to my weight was tremendous. I quit going to see any doctor for any reason unless I thought I was going to die.

    I was completely incapacitated by weakness two years ago. It turned out I had pericarditis (inflammation of the heart). But because I'd heard from SO MANY DOCTORS "your problem is you are fat" I didn't go in until I couldn't stay awake more than 4 hours a day. I feel incredibly lucky the doctor listened that day.

    I don't think I would've survived to lose weight, which really became greatly eased by finally getting on proper medication for my until-then ENTIRELY UNTREATED lupus.

    I want to add that I heard "you're fat, lose weight" even at 5'11" - 180 lbs , rather than getting medical treatment for conditions as diverse as mononucleosis and pneumonia. I can't blame a town because these experiences happened in several states and different regions of the country.

    My mom experienced the same kind of blatant discrimination for years, and I recall when she developed Cushing's Disease, rather than taking her symptoms seriously, she was told, to her face, in front of her children "Stop eating like a pig. You're a hypochondriac".


    That makes me want to scream, it is soo appalling !!
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    Berkgal33 wrote: »
    Nonsense. Humans mentally judge each other; it's built into us.

    1. I see no reason to give someone crap for their choice to be overfat to the point of self-destruction.
    2. It doesn't make it less dangerous to be overfat.

    None of those things force people to take in more calories than they burn. If you gain weight, it's because you've chosen to consume more than you need.

    Weight gain is a choice. Weight loss is a choice. Maintaining is a choice. Every food item that passes your lips is a choice to ingest those calories.

    Medicine and medical conditions can make it more difficult, but what you eat is *always* still a choice.

    [/quote]

    This.
    [/quote]

    This view of obesity is very wrong from a medical point of view.

    Next to no one sits down and Decides to be come Obese.

    "Choice" can be hidden from a person through physical and mental abuse over time.

    Only counting calories can not fix physical and mental health under lying obesity causes but it can be a good stop gap measure.

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