Clean eating- does it matter?
Replies
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RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I think "clean eating" is a pretty much meaningless term...everyone is going to have their own definition of what "clean" means.
I eat a diet rich in whole food nutrition whether I'm losing or maintaining...but I also enjoy pizza night most Fridays and whatnot. If nutritional requirements are met then it's all good...you don't get extra credit for more broccoli.cassandrarodriguez89 wrote: »Yes, it 100% matters, for instance, I eat healthy. I ate one cancer meal (taco bell) and broke out in sweat throwing up for hours. If I eat a slice of cake I get horrid acne. Actually, anything that has no good nutrition sends me into oblivion, I will get sick, depressed and acne. Not to mention I hate the taste of white bread, white rice and fried foods. The flavors are nasty, I don't understand why some people enjoy the taste, I honestly think they pretend to like it because they don't want to make effort in eating healthy. White bread tastes like paper... unless they have weird taste buds its a strange concept to me. I will say sugar is different though, it tastes AMAZING... and sometimes its worth the acne and migraine
Seems like that's all in your head...probably a crap relationship with food bordering on orthorexia.12 -
well if you're hitting all your nutritional goals most days, then you're obviously eating a predominately healthy diet. My friend is eating mcdonalds and cookies just super small portionscwolfman13 wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I think "clean eating" is a pretty much meaningless term...everyone is going to have their own definition of what "clean" means.
I eat a diet rich in whole food nutrition whether I'm losing or maintaining...but I also enjoy pizza night most Fridays and whatnot. If nutritional requirements are met then it's all good...you don't get extra credit for more broccoli.cassandrarodriguez89 wrote: »Yes, it 100% matters, for instance, I eat healthy. I ate one cancer meal (taco bell) and broke out in sweat throwing up for hours. If I eat a slice of cake I get horrid acne. Actually, anything that has no good nutrition sends me into oblivion, I will get sick, depressed and acne. Not to mention I hate the taste of white bread, white rice and fried foods. The flavors are nasty, I don't understand why some people enjoy the taste, I honestly think they pretend to like it because they don't want to make effort in eating healthy. White bread tastes like paper... unless they have weird taste buds its a strange concept to me. I will say sugar is different though, it tastes AMAZING... and sometimes its worth the acne and migraine
Seems like that's all in your head...probably a crap relationship with food bordering on orthorexia.
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RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
well if you're hitting all your nutritional goals most days, then you're obviously eating a predominately healthy diet. My friend is eating mcdonalds and cookies just super small portionscwolfman13 wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I think "clean eating" is a pretty much meaningless term...everyone is going to have their own definition of what "clean" means.
I eat a diet rich in whole food nutrition whether I'm losing or maintaining...but I also enjoy pizza night most Fridays and whatnot. If nutritional requirements are met then it's all good...you don't get extra credit for more broccoli.cassandrarodriguez89 wrote: »Yes, it 100% matters, for instance, I eat healthy. I ate one cancer meal (taco bell) and broke out in sweat throwing up for hours. If I eat a slice of cake I get horrid acne. Actually, anything that has no good nutrition sends me into oblivion, I will get sick, depressed and acne. Not to mention I hate the taste of white bread, white rice and fried foods. The flavors are nasty, I don't understand why some people enjoy the taste, I honestly think they pretend to like it because they don't want to make effort in eating healthy. White bread tastes like paper... unless they have weird taste buds its a strange concept to me. I will say sugar is different though, it tastes AMAZING... and sometimes its worth the acne and migraine
Seems like that's all in your head...probably a crap relationship with food bordering on orthorexia.
Why are you asking for our experiences, referencing the responses you've had but insisting we talk about your friend who we know nothing about other than your insistence all she's eating is "junk"?7 -
diannethegeek wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Well my hair and nails look fantastic eating this way and so does my skin. Plus it's been effortless and fun. I feel great. I didn't claim that you cod tell how someone ate by looking at them but you can certainly see changes in yourself. You can eat however you want. I'm just commenting and straying discussionRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Im only trying to lose another few and then I'll start bulking in the gym. I'm still recovering from a fractured patella so I'm getting back down to my normal weight and then I'll start rock climbing and lifting again and put back on some healthy weightRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I know you have probably already heard this, but while clean eating may be your thing it has nil to do with actual weight loss. Weight loss is strictly calories in, calories out.
Why are you trying to lose weight when you are not overweight? In fact, you are at the low end of a healthy weight range.
I'm not just talking about the weight loss itself but also how satisfied you feel during the process and how the rest of you looks.
I don't understand the statement I have put in bold. You can't tell by how someone looks whether they eat clean. I used to eat loads of fruits, vegetables, no added sugar, no sodas, low fat, and I gained weight, but nobody could tell that by looking at me. In fact, I'm pretty sure their impression was that I was eating a lot of high calorie foods.
whatever works. You do you. I feel like healthy foods have made this process easier for me
You seem to be saying that those of us who've said we don't eat clean don't look as good because of it.
After losing 96 lbs, I look damn good today in my size 10 dress (down from 22W). I hope the 80 cals of bacon I ate the morning won't make my hair fall out!7 -
RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »Either way, I don't want to debate semantics. It's clear that this threat is about if there is benefit to eating a healthier diet vs a junkier one for weight loss.
But see, this is a VERY different question than you first asked (which I tried to explain in my first post on page one, which was ignored).
If you'd asked this question, I would have said "yes, for most people." However, I do think there are exceptions. Some people really do seem to not want to change how they eat at all or can't cook or think doing so would be hugely burdensome or see having to eat foods they dislike (or think they dislike) as a huge stumbling block preventing them from losing weight. For them knowing they can lose just by controlling calories can be freeing, and allow them to start. Many or most of those, IME, do end up improving their diet as they gradually start cooking some and realize it's easier than they realized or faster, see how much difference it makes to how much they can eat, make changes as they figure out what's sating or learn more about food.
I did know a woman who ate mostly fast food (most people in my social circle really don't), and even she -- who was committed to the idea that she wanted to lose but not change how she ate other than amounts/choices at the fast food place, gradually started making nutritionally better choices with her orders, first, and then transitioning to much more home cooking, very gradually, and I think because as she got thinner she started feeling more able to care about nutrition (I was the opposite, but people are different) and because she didn't push herself to do something she thought she hated at first.
With your friend, I find it puzzling as I'd hate to be hungry all the time (just couldn't, to be honest), and so I'd naturally start eating more filling foods even if I didn't immediately think to do that or do it because of nutrition. So when people don't, I assume it's because they think it will just be for a short time and don't care (crash or fad dieting) or really feel set on not changing how they eat. In either case, that's their business, not mine.
Has your friend said why the hunger is worth it to her? (Just asking since you brought it up.)6 -
I appreciate all the responses. I agree that some treats are fine in moderation. Maybe I can get a screen grab of her food diary with her permission but anyway- I think I've just kind of lost my way in this thread. I did t realize clean eating was such a loaded word. I thought it was interchangeable with healthy or nutrient richVintageFeline wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
well if you're hitting all your nutritional goals most days, then you're obviously eating a predominately healthy diet. My friend is eating mcdonalds and cookies just super small portionscwolfman13 wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I think "clean eating" is a pretty much meaningless term...everyone is going to have their own definition of what "clean" means.
I eat a diet rich in whole food nutrition whether I'm losing or maintaining...but I also enjoy pizza night most Fridays and whatnot. If nutritional requirements are met then it's all good...you don't get extra credit for more broccoli.cassandrarodriguez89 wrote: »Yes, it 100% matters, for instance, I eat healthy. I ate one cancer meal (taco bell) and broke out in sweat throwing up for hours. If I eat a slice of cake I get horrid acne. Actually, anything that has no good nutrition sends me into oblivion, I will get sick, depressed and acne. Not to mention I hate the taste of white bread, white rice and fried foods. The flavors are nasty, I don't understand why some people enjoy the taste, I honestly think they pretend to like it because they don't want to make effort in eating healthy. White bread tastes like paper... unless they have weird taste buds its a strange concept to me. I will say sugar is different though, it tastes AMAZING... and sometimes its worth the acne and migraine
Seems like that's all in your head...probably a crap relationship with food bordering on orthorexia.
Why are you asking for our experiences, referencing the responses you've had but insisting we talk about your friend who we know nothing about other than your insistence all she's eating is "junk"?
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lemurcat12 wrote: »JohnnyPenso wrote: »
That's also the general impression I have from my short time here at MFP. When the subject of making more nutritionally dense food choices comes up and someone is enthusiastic about it or says it made a real difference in their lives, an army of posters comes along to mock and ridicule and force them to define what they mean with Merriam Webster like accuracy.Sometimes in these "clean eating" conversations, the concept of nutrition seems to get lost. I see repeated statements that calorie deficit is THE ONLY THING that matters, and that food choices are an irrelevant personal preference.
I don't agree with that at all (and I'm someone who goes into an "I hate vegetables" thread and says that they are important and the person should work on learning to like them, and give cookbook recommendations.
I get kind of offended by such claims really, since I so frequently post about how important nutrition is (a real understanding of nutrition, not nonsensical clean eating) and enjoy talking about it, and see many others who are similar. It also suggests that most of us are recommending bad diets, and I've never seen that.
I would be interested in your comments on my posts in this thread, specifically the ones distinguishing between clean eating and nutrition. That I think processed foods can be fine or occasional treats does NOT mean I am not focused on nutrition or recommending it, and that people insist on reading things that way is IMO offensive and prevents real discussion.
I post posts like here, and yet people in the discussion continue making false dichotomies between those who "clean eat" and the rest who care nothing about nutrition. How is that not an intentional misunderstanding?When somene comes along and says, "Oh I can't stop eating cookies", they are barraged with.....understanding and acceptance. I find it especially funny how the oreos are globbed onto as if the OP wasn't just using oreos as an example to illustrate a point.
Again, not what I see at all. I am one of many people who often gives advice on dealing with difficulties controlling food consumption, including sweets. I just don't happen to think the one and only answer for everyone is never eat them. (And as I said above, I don't personally care about Oreos. I suspect one thing about them is that just one is quite low cal, much lower cal than the homemade cookies I have in my recipe box.)If calories in/calories out really is the only thing that matters in weight loss, why don't we simply accept the OP's choices as what's working best for them and leave it at that?
Are you asking about this thread? Are you interested in actually having a conversation about it? If so, that would be nice.
The answer is because OP did not just say "I find it helpful to eat this way." She said "do you think clean eating matters" and gave an example that it did based a difference between her very specific diet (low fat and vegan as well as whole foods based) and her friend who supposedly eats only small portions of "junk." I 100% agree that some diets are more satiating than others -- I could not happily survive on only junk, as I understand that term -- but I also don't think one NEEDS to eat "clean" (let alone low fat and vegan) to be satisfied on a deficit, and that's why I don't think clean eating matters. Also, for nutrition I don't think clean eating matters or is even necessarily a good diet. I think eating a nutrient dense and balanced or complete diet matters, yes. Maybe for weight loss, if like many of us it helps you be sated, and definitely for nutrition.
But my answer to OP's question is still no, I don't think it matters, and the only alternative to her kind of clean eating is not a non nutrition and non sating diet.
You seem to be ignoring the question OP asked. I don't think people have been telling her to eat differently. If she likes how she eats it's great for her, and I certainly did not say otherwise.
(Of course this post will be ignored, the better to continue an argument against strawmen rather than what is actually being said.)
Actually, I think you're right. I didn't mean to ignore the in between. I'm sorry that I came across that way. I guess I should have phrased the question 'Does eating a nutritionally adequate diet matter" I feel like I've come across the wrong way because I didn't understand the definition of clean easing. I thought it just ,want eating healthy foods. Sorry for the confusion. I really didn't mean to upset people.
And trust me- I'm not trying to tell anyone to eat like me!! I'm just stating that I think there should be some focus on nutrition during weight loss rather than just the calorie. I didn't express myself clearly. Sorry for that5 -
RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »I feel like people hang onto some buzz words that trigger them and lost my overall point but I'll just be careful when posting in the future. You clearly have to be super precise and careful with language on these forums lol.
It's not about being triggered, it's about words having meanings. Your post didn't annoy me at all, but the answer to "how do you feel about nutrition-conscious eating" is different from that to "is clean eating necessary." Clean eating does not mean "nutrition-conscious eating." Ways in which they are different:
(1) Clean eating asserts that it's important to NEVER eat certain kinds of foods, whereas nutrition-conscious eating can include them if other bases are met (and in some cases they may even help meet goals).
(2) Nutrition-conscious eating focuses on real nutritional considerations (yes, like the kinds of things tracked on Chronometer, a site I often recommend and like). Clean eating makes a fake distinction between "processed" and "non processed" foods.
It sounds like you are really more interested in nutrition-conscious eating and asking about that, and that's cool, I also am quite interested in that. But since "clean eating" is commonly asserted to be important, it's worth discussing.
Weirdly, some people (not you, this is about the discussions I've seen at other tiems) seem to think "clean eating" means cutting out fast food and ultra processed junk food (or eating them rarely), even if you still eat lots of actually processed things like smoked salmon and dried pasta and cottage cheese (or Maytag blue) or homemade pies (well, occasionally). I find the assertion that these are not processed or the assumption that everyone not "clean eating" eats lots of ultra processed junk food and fast food to be puzzling.5 -
VintageFeline wrote: »What is the question? Will you lose more weight eating "clean" by whatever personal definition that is? No.
Your friend appears to be suffering the effect of undereating. By and large, those getting enough calories from fast food etc don't experience things like brittle nails. Or there could be an unknown medical cause.
Yes, you may be right. She may be deficient in something or just not eating enough1 -
Yeah, I'll bite too. I lost 60 lbs. over about a year and a half. I had borderline high cholesterol before and now my numbers are great. Because I lost the weight, it was easier to become more active. I took up running and so far have reached the half marathon distance (was training for a full and got injured) and I have been lifting to maintain muscle. I am 51 years old and I am certain my testosterone level is shrinking so staying fit and active are important to me. I have done all of this while eating ice cream every day. I eat pizza, burgers, fries, BBQ, cookies, cake, donuts...you get the picture. Now here is the thing.......I don't do it everyday....because that doesn't fit my goals, but a meat lovers pizza has very good macro nutrient percentages for me for example, but I cant eat that many calories too often. Last night for dinner I had a chicken breast, oven baked cabbage and potato's, that's how I usually eat. I eat healthy. I am healthy. I don't eat "clean".4
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diannethegeek wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Well my hair and nails look fantastic eating this way and so does my skin. Plus it's been effortless and fun. I feel great. I didn't claim that you cod tell how someone ate by looking at them but you can certainly see changes in yourself. You can eat however you want. I'm just commenting and straying discussionRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Im only trying to lose another few and then I'll start bulking in the gym. I'm still recovering from a fractured patella so I'm getting back down to my normal weight and then I'll start rock climbing and lifting again and put back on some healthy weightRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I know you have probably already heard this, but while clean eating may be your thing it has nil to do with actual weight loss. Weight loss is strictly calories in, calories out.
Why are you trying to lose weight when you are not overweight? In fact, you are at the low end of a healthy weight range.
I'm not just talking about the weight loss itself but also how satisfied you feel during the process and how the rest of you looks.
I don't understand the statement I have put in bold. You can't tell by how someone looks whether they eat clean. I used to eat loads of fruits, vegetables, no added sugar, no sodas, low fat, and I gained weight, but nobody could tell that by looking at me. In fact, I'm pretty sure their impression was that I was eating a lot of high calorie foods. whatever works. You do you. I feel like healthy foods have made this process easier for me
You seem to be saying that those of us who've said we don't eat clean don't look as good because of it.
After losing 96 lbs, I look damn good today in my size 10 dress (down from 22W). I hope the 80 cals of bacon I ate the morning won't make my hair fall out!
Bacon in a white roll here. Was delicious.5 -
RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »it's ridiculous you can't claim to be a healthy eater if at least 90% of your choices are healthy. People who take it beyond that have orthorexia. My choices are mostly all whole food plant based. Everybody moderates to different degrees. I'm not judging anyone. Actually- you are
But why would you WANT to claim to be a "clean eater"? What's the point?
For me, it was explained to me that clean eating means 100% non processed. I don't cut out processed foods, I think some processed foods are healthy and others are delicious (cheese) and fit just fine in my goals.
But since I willingly eat some processed foods, if I said "yes, I am a clean eater" I would feel like a liar, even though I know most people who claim to eat clean eat pretty similar to how I do. (I eat less "clean" when eating veggie, like now, since I include some processed foods like tofu and tempeh to get up my protein.)
Oh, and sorry to keep responding to your posts -- I should probably wait 'til the end, but then it would be unreasonably long. I think this is an interesting topic and all of this is meant in a friendly way, in case it's not clear. I'm into whole foods based eating and nutrition myself, and have toyed with plant based although 100% PB is not currently for me, and probably won't be -- I just find it's easier and I feel better with some animal based foods and I don't have the ethical commitment to work around that. (I do care about sourcing and that's enough for me although I respect it is not for ethical vegetarians and vegans.)2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »Either way, I don't want to debate semantics. It's clear that this threat is about if there is benefit to eating a healthier diet vs a junkier one for weight loss.
But see, this is a VERY different question than you first asked (which I tried to explain in my first post on page one, which was ignored).
If you'd asked this question, I would have said "yes, for most people." However, I do think there are exceptions. Some people really do seem to not want to change how they eat at all or can't cook or think doing so would be hugely burdensome or see having to eat foods they dislike (or think they dislike) as a huge stumbling block preventing them from losing weight. For them knowing they can lose just by controlling calories can be freeing, and allow them to start. Many or most of those, IME, do end up improving their diet as they gradually start cooking some and realize it's easier than they realized or faster, see how much difference it makes to how much they can eat, make changes as they figure out what's sating or learn more about food.
I did know a woman who ate mostly fast food (most people in my social circle really don't), and even she -- who was committed to the idea that she wanted to lose but not change how she ate other than amounts/choices at the fast food place, gradually started making nutritionally better choices with her orders, first, and then transitioning to much more home cooking, very gradually, and I think because as she got thinner she started feeling more able to care about nutrition (I was the opposite, but people are different) and because she didn't push herself to do something she thought she hated at first.
With your friend, I find it puzzling as I'd hate to be hungry all the time (just couldn't, to be honest), and so I'd naturally start eating more filling foods even if I didn't immediately think to do that or do it because of nutrition. So when people don't, I assume it's because they think it will just be for a short time and don't care (crash or fad dieting) or really feel set on not changing how they eat. In either case, that's their business, not mine.
Has your friend said why the hunger is worth it to her? (Just asking since you brought it up.)
Yes, you're right. I am realizing that I phrased it wrong. And I can see what you mean by different approaches working for different people.
She works weird hours and rarely buys groceries so she eats all her food out but she is a bartender and her looks are important to her. She wants to fit into her clothes from last year. I think she has a definite stigma against healthy foods because she was forced to eat them but now that she is feeling s *kitten* she is wanting to try more things but just kind of stuck in a cycle of eating what she's been eating the last ten years. (She was with me yesterday, but she's not today so that's all I can really say on her behalf.)
but anyway, I'm sorry my message wasn't clearly articulated. I didn't know clean eating was some kind of a cult lol3 -
diannethegeek wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Um, anyone who thinks their way of eating makes them MORALLY superior to someone else has some serious issues. I wasn't bragging about anything. I was engaging in conversation and discussion. I have no problem with the people who stuck to the discussion but it's ridiculous you can't claim to be a healthy eater if at least 90% of your choices are healthy. People who take it beyond that have orthorexia. My choices are mostly all whole food plant based. Everybody moderates to different degrees. I'm not judging anyone. Actually- you areprattiger65 wrote: »In the OP you said you ate "super clean", now you come back saying, "I drink twice a year and I eat a homemade dessert about once a month. I do use some processed sauces and when I'm sick, I eat white toast and drink processed juice", in other words, you moderate......just like most of us do. The difference is, we don't start threads that say "how important do you think it is to eat a homemade brownie in moderation?" See the difference? Quite honestly, it seems your OP was more of a humble brag on how superior your diet is to your friends and a backhanded put down of her. Moral equivocation has no place when it comes to food.
Healthy eating and clean eating are not synonymous, though. Maybe that's why we're having such a strange conversation here.
Okay, I'm going to post an edit to clarify. sorry it took me so long to understand that 0 -
Or wait, is there a way to add an edit to an existing thread?0
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RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
No, "clean eating" is a preference but not necessary for healthy weight loss.
Your rate of loss is pretty aggressive for your size. You may want to slow that down if you want to be a good example for others.
Your friend is likely malnourished and hungry maybe from too few calories if she has been trying to lose with a very aggressive rate and likely not eating enough nutrients.
She does not need to eat "clean" to have a nutritious filling diet. She does need to eat more than cookies. Protein, fats and fiber help people to feel satisfied- have her look at her consumption of these.
Suggest that she adjust her goal to something less aggressive. If she is 50+ lbs overweight then losing 2 lbs a week could be okay. Under 50 lbs overweight then 1 lb a week is usually a pretty reasonable goal. If 20 lbs or less overweight then .5 lb a week might be best.
If she wants advice she could post her stats and what she is eating here and people would be able to give input. Or she could see a doctor and/or registered dietician for help.
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RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »Or wait, is there a way to add an edit to an existing thread?
You can only edit a post for the first hour, unfortunately. Those of us who are participating can see that clearly we've come around to understanding each other (I can totally see why this thread looks like it does if you thought we were all talking about just not eating healthy). But you'll have posters pop in for the next few days who clearly haven't read past the first post. For the most part, you can just ignore them.0 -
RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »Either way, I don't want to debate semantics. It's clear that this threat is about if there is benefit to eating a healthier diet vs a junkier one for weight loss.
But see, this is a VERY different question than you first asked (which I tried to explain in my first post on page one, which was ignored).
If you'd asked this question, I would have said "yes, for most people." However, I do think there are exceptions. Some people really do seem to not want to change how they eat at all or can't cook or think doing so would be hugely burdensome or see having to eat foods they dislike (or think they dislike) as a huge stumbling block preventing them from losing weight. For them knowing they can lose just by controlling calories can be freeing, and allow them to start. Many or most of those, IME, do end up improving their diet as they gradually start cooking some and realize it's easier than they realized or faster, see how much difference it makes to how much they can eat, make changes as they figure out what's sating or learn more about food.
I did know a woman who ate mostly fast food (most people in my social circle really don't), and even she -- who was committed to the idea that she wanted to lose but not change how she ate other than amounts/choices at the fast food place, gradually started making nutritionally better choices with her orders, first, and then transitioning to much more home cooking, very gradually, and I think because as she got thinner she started feeling more able to care about nutrition (I was the opposite, but people are different) and because she didn't push herself to do something she thought she hated at first.
With your friend, I find it puzzling as I'd hate to be hungry all the time (just couldn't, to be honest), and so I'd naturally start eating more filling foods even if I didn't immediately think to do that or do it because of nutrition. So when people don't, I assume it's because they think it will just be for a short time and don't care (crash or fad dieting) or really feel set on not changing how they eat. In either case, that's their business, not mine.
Has your friend said why the hunger is worth it to her? (Just asking since you brought it up.)
Yes, you're right. I am realizing that I phrased it wrong. And I can see what you mean by different approaches working for different people.
She works weird hours and rarely buys groceries so she eats all her food out but she is a bartender and her looks are important to her. She wants to fit into her clothes from last year. I think she has a definite stigma against healthy foods because she was forced to eat them but now that she is feeling s *kitten* she is wanting to try more things but just kind of stuck in a cycle of eating what she's been eating the last ten years. (She was with me yesterday, but she's not today so that's all I can really say on her behalf.)
but anyway, I'm sorry my message wasn't clearly articulated. I didn't know clean eating was some kind of a cult lol
Don't worry about it. You clarified! I was never upset or anything anyway, it just changes my answer.
I think your explanation about your friend makes sense, and it's why I don't normally worry about lecturing people to eat better (although they should not give up on vegetables, LOL!). It tends to take care of itself as they realize it affects how hungry they are and how they feel, and they often are more likely to stick to it if they feel like they are doing it because they want to and not because others tell them to or they have to (that was part of the deal with my friend with the fast food -- she felt like people couldn't tell her how to lose weight). Lots of people have a contrarian streak like that, I do myself, although not about nutrition/weight loss, really.3 -
cassandrarodriguez89 wrote: »Yes, it 100% matters, for instance, I eat healthy. I ate one cancer meal (taco bell) and broke out in sweat throwing up for hours. If I eat a slice of cake I get horrid acne. Actually, anything that has no good nutrition sends me into oblivion, I will get sick, depressed and acne. Not to mention I hate the taste of white bread, white rice and fried foods. The flavors are nasty, I don't understand why some people enjoy the taste, I honestly think they pretend to like it because they don't want to make effort in eating healthy. White bread tastes like paper... unless they have weird taste buds its a strange concept to me. I will say sugar is different though, it tastes AMAZING... and sometimes its worth the acne and migraine
Mmmm... I would be willing to try a Doritos-flavor-dusted cake taco.1 -
OP, back to your friend. Perhaps you could help her in this way. You say she has a weird schedule and doesn't buy groceries.....cool. You say she eats a lot off fast food and gas station junk (my words, not yours)....cool. Here is the thing, she can still eat McDonalds and Taco Bell etc., buy gas station junk (sort of) and still eat somewhat healthy. my challenge to you is this, have this conversation with your friend; " I know you have a busy schedule and it is hard for you to make time to shop and cook. I understand your need for fast food and convenience store snacks. I can help you make choices that will be healthier OVERALL while still meeting YOUR needs." If you can get over any preconceived notions that all fast food is bad and actually look at the macro/micro nutrient content, you can put together a not too bad meal plan. One of my go to snacks is beef jerky, its low calorie and high in protein. I buy it at the convenience store. A grilled chicken sandwich, plain with lettuce and a little sauce of your choice (I like ketchup) is just fine. Heck, a Big Mac is ok if you pair it with a side salad. See what I mean? If you really want to help someone, meet them at THEIR point of need, not yours. I hope this helps, Im not trying to be snarky.6
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prattiger65 wrote: »OP, back to your friend. Perhaps you could help her in this way. You say she has a weird schedule and doesn't buy groceries.....cool. You say she eats a lot off fast food and gas station junk (my words, not yours)....cool. Here is the thing, she can still eat McDonalds and Taco Bell etc., buy gas station junk (sort of) and still eat somewhat healthy. my challenge to you is this, have this conversation with your friend; " I know you have a busy schedule and it is hard for you to make time to shop and cook. I understand your need for fast food and convenience store snacks. I can help you make choices that will be healthier OVERALL while still meeting YOUR needs." If you can get over any preconceived notions that all fast food is bad and actually look at the macro/micro nutrient content, you can put together a not too bad meal plan. One of my go to snacks is beef jerky, its low calorie and high in protein. I buy it at the convenience store. A grilled chicken sandwich, plain with lettuce and a little sauce of your choice (I like ketchup) is just fine. Heck, a Big Mac is ok if you pair it with a side salad. See what I mean? If you really want to help someone, meet them at THEIR point of need, not yours. I hope this helps, Im not trying to be snarky.
Great tips!!! This would definitely make a huge improvement for her. I'm going to copy and paste her the message and then help her choose some healthier things at the places I know she eats. Idk if she'll be willing to do the side salad though lmao1 -
Yeah, I don't know why that took me is long to figure out haha. I guess I didn't know what clean eating actually meant. Thanks for understanding guysdiannethegeek wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »Or wait, is there a way to add an edit to an existing thread?
You can only edit a post for the first hour, unfortunately. Those of us who are participating can see that clearly we've come around to understanding each other (I can totally see why this thread looks like it does if you thought we were all talking about just not eating healthy). But you'll have posters pop in for the next few days who clearly haven't read past the first post. For the most part, you can just ignore them.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »Either way, I don't want to debate semantics. It's clear that this threat is about if there is benefit to eating a healthier diet vs a junkier one for weight loss.
But see, this is a VERY different question than you first asked (which I tried to explain in my first post on page one, which was ignored).
If you'd asked this question, I would have said "yes, for most people." However, I do think there are exceptions. Some people really do seem to not want to change how they eat at all or can't cook or think doing so would be hugely burdensome or see having to eat foods they dislike (or think they dislike) as a huge stumbling block preventing them from losing weight. For them knowing they can lose just by controlling calories can be freeing, and allow them to start. Many or most of those, IME, do end up improving their diet as they gradually start cooking some and realize it's easier than they realized or faster, see how much difference it makes to how much they can eat, make changes as they figure out what's sating or learn more about food.
I did know a woman who ate mostly fast food (most people in my social circle really don't), and even she -- who was committed to the idea that she wanted to lose but not change how she ate other than amounts/choices at the fast food place, gradually started making nutritionally better choices with her orders, first, and then transitioning to much more home cooking, very gradually, and I think because as she got thinner she started feeling more able to care about nutrition (I was the opposite, but people are different) and because she didn't push herself to do something she thought she hated at first.
With your friend, I find it puzzling as I'd hate to be hungry all the time (just couldn't, to be honest), and so I'd naturally start eating more filling foods even if I didn't immediately think to do that or do it because of nutrition. So when people don't, I assume it's because they think it will just be for a short time and don't care (crash or fad dieting) or really feel set on not changing how they eat. In either case, that's their business, not mine.
Has your friend said why the hunger is worth it to her? (Just asking since you brought it up.)
Yes, you're right. I am realizing that I phrased it wrong. And I can see what you mean by different approaches working for different people.
She works weird hours and rarely buys groceries so she eats all her food out but she is a bartender and her looks are important to her. She wants to fit into her clothes from last year. I think she has a definite stigma against healthy foods because she was forced to eat them but now that she is feeling s *kitten* she is wanting to try more things but just kind of stuck in a cycle of eating what she's been eating the last ten years. (She was with me yesterday, but she's not today so that's all I can really say on her behalf.)
but anyway, I'm sorry my message wasn't clearly articulated. I didn't know clean eating was some kind of a cult lol
Don't worry about it. You clarified! I was never upset or anything anyway, it just changes my answer.
I think your explanation about your friend makes sense, and it's why I don't normally worry about lecturing people to eat better (although they should not give up on vegetables, LOL!). It tends to take care of itself as they realize it affects how hungry they are and how they feel, and they often are more likely to stick to it if they feel like they are doing it because they want to and not because others tell them to or they have to (that was part of the deal with my friend with the fast food -- she felt like people couldn't tell her how to lose weight). Lots of people have a contrarian streak like that, I do myself, although not about nutrition/weight loss, really.
Yeah, I think she's at that breaking point where she's starting to want to try something new.3 -
In the end OP, she has to be receptive to your help. Good luck!0
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This thread really took a positive turn! I appreciate @RedheadedPrincess14 , that you now understand where we were coming from and why the term "clean eating" is a bit of a loaded one. I really appreciate that you acknowledged it and were even willing to amend your original post - that is a refreshing change!
I agree with Dianne, there will still be people coming in and responding to your original comments, (and maybe cancer meals, LOL), but for those who have been reading along we are all up to speed and much more on the same page. Yeah!10 -
I agree with you. I have the same ideology as you. I always feel like crap when I eat junk, but when I eat healthy I'm fine. Everyone has their own goals. In the beginning it won't matter, but sooner or later it will catch up to you.
I once ate bad all day and for 3 days I was sick. I felt so disgusted. I couldn't wait until it pass.0 -
I'm pretty sure that some places, one big chain that escapes me right now (assuming you're US) has wraps and fruit bowls and salad bowls etc. So those could be options too.2
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VintageFeline wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »It might help to clarify which version of clean eating we're talking about.
Calories matter for weight loss. Good nutrition matters for things like hunger and health. But those can both be achieved with or without a "clean" diet.
Your diary shows a really low fat intake. I just want to be sure you're being smart about that because I can't imagine keeping my fat that low (and I have to stay low fat without my gallbladder).
Best of luck with your goals! :flowerforyou:
I have to eat low fat because fat cause my skin to break out and give me breakouts but I make sure I get my omegas from my greens on chronometer and if I don't, I'll have a tbsp of seeds. All my blood work is perfect for the first time in my life. I think eating clean just helps you feel full. For example, I'm going to feel a lot more full on a giant salad then two Oreos so I feel like it would be harder to feel full without eating clean
Who makes a choice between a giant salad, or two oreos? What harm will I come to, if I eat a salad AND eat Oreos, when I have room in my calories for both?
She already stated that eating Oreos would not make her feel full (and presumably would lead to overeating).
If you are someone who can eat anything, anytime and stay in tiptop shape, well then..hallelujah.
I make good steaks.
Eating Oreos instead of a salad would not make her feel full. Me neither. I really can't think of a time when I was trying to decide between a salad, which I would consider a meal, and two Oreos, which I would consider dessert. My point is that why does there always have to be this false dilemma? Are there people who choose to eat Oreos instead of a sensible meal? Not that they choose to consume Oreos after a sensible meal, but instead of? Those are the scenarios that are always proposed in these threads and they just don't seem realistic to me.
Eat anything, any time and stay in tip top shape? I don't think I would go that far, but I don't see how my comments indicate that I believe that I do that. I'm not striving for top top shape.... I'm striving for generally healthy and happy, and a diet that includes a variety of Whole Foods, processed foods, and even Oreos in moderation - helps me achieve that.
The problem is you are speaking from the perspective of someone who's healthy and rational and balanced.
But nothing is rational or absurd, rare about this false dilemma when it comes to food choice for people with eating disorder.
I think it's encouraging that the OP finds salad to be a solution for her, however it may seem trivial to you. Also, people like me could read more from it and develop other ideas. It doesn't have to be for a meal. Anytime I feel hungry, instead of going for Oreos, I can preemptively eat a big salad.
Does it mean I think Oreos are bad? No. But while dealing with an eating disorder, I need to pick a side and decide that Oreos would derail my effort and need to be avoided. It's like an alcoholic forgoing alcohol drinks completely to deal with his problem instead of striving for a balance like responsible drinkers do.
Whilst I respect and empathise with your situation it is completely different from the average person, this has sort of been brought up before. Should we, in every thread, tiptoe round and cover every single eventuality and medical issue someone might be dealing with if they haven't disclosed that to be an issue?
That's something someone should be working on with their treatment team if they have one. It's not my responsibility or expertise to make sure that when I say you can have a salad and an Orea that someone with an ED might be thrown for a loop because they find the notion in conflict with themselves. It's horrible for that person no doubt, but this isn't an ED specific support forum.
I think where you and I differ is your impression that this eating disorder is medical and can only be treated by professional. That's not my impression. This overeating disorder brought up in a wt loss forum can be helped with good strategies shared by ordinary successful people.
Being a forum you're gonna get different topics and individual cases.
Anyway, do you think that any dieter -- I'm not talking about those with medical issue -- can take the generic advice that she can have a salad and Oreos and have it work, even if it works for you? I think it's a little naive if you think so.0 -
Eat anything you want as long as you hit your macros. Clean eating or not will not affect your goals as long as you hit yours macros.0
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endlessfall16 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »It might help to clarify which version of clean eating we're talking about.
Calories matter for weight loss. Good nutrition matters for things like hunger and health. But those can both be achieved with or without a "clean" diet.
Your diary shows a really low fat intake. I just want to be sure you're being smart about that because I can't imagine keeping my fat that low (and I have to stay low fat without my gallbladder).
Best of luck with your goals! :flowerforyou:
I have to eat low fat because fat cause my skin to break out and give me breakouts but I make sure I get my omegas from my greens on chronometer and if I don't, I'll have a tbsp of seeds. All my blood work is perfect for the first time in my life. I think eating clean just helps you feel full. For example, I'm going to feel a lot more full on a giant salad then two Oreos so I feel like it would be harder to feel full without eating clean
Who makes a choice between a giant salad, or two oreos? What harm will I come to, if I eat a salad AND eat Oreos, when I have room in my calories for both?
She already stated that eating Oreos would not make her feel full (and presumably would lead to overeating).
If you are someone who can eat anything, anytime and stay in tiptop shape, well then..hallelujah.
I make good steaks.
Eating Oreos instead of a salad would not make her feel full. Me neither. I really can't think of a time when I was trying to decide between a salad, which I would consider a meal, and two Oreos, which I would consider dessert. My point is that why does there always have to be this false dilemma? Are there people who choose to eat Oreos instead of a sensible meal? Not that they choose to consume Oreos after a sensible meal, but instead of? Those are the scenarios that are always proposed in these threads and they just don't seem realistic to me.
Eat anything, any time and stay in tip top shape? I don't think I would go that far, but I don't see how my comments indicate that I believe that I do that. I'm not striving for top top shape.... I'm striving for generally healthy and happy, and a diet that includes a variety of Whole Foods, processed foods, and even Oreos in moderation - helps me achieve that.
The problem is you are speaking from the perspective of someone who's healthy and rational and balanced.
But nothing is rational or absurd, rare about this false dilemma when it comes to food choice for people with eating disorder.
I think it's encouraging that the OP finds salad to be a solution for her, however it may seem trivial to you. Also, people like me could read more from it and develop other ideas. It doesn't have to be for a meal. Anytime I feel hungry, instead of going for Oreos, I can preemptively eat a big salad.
Does it mean I think Oreos are bad? No. But while dealing with an eating disorder, I need to pick a side and decide that Oreos would derail my effort and need to be avoided. It's like an alcoholic forgoing alcohol drinks completely to deal with his problem instead of striving for a balance like responsible drinkers do.
Whilst I respect and empathise with your situation it is completely different from the average person, this has sort of been brought up before. Should we, in every thread, tiptoe round and cover every single eventuality and medical issue someone might be dealing with if they haven't disclosed that to be an issue?
That's something someone should be working on with their treatment team if they have one. It's not my responsibility or expertise to make sure that when I say you can have a salad and an Orea that someone with an ED might be thrown for a loop because they find the notion in conflict with themselves. It's horrible for that person no doubt, but this isn't an ED specific support forum.
I think where you and I differ is your impression that this eating disorder is medical and can only be treated by professional. That's not my impression. This overeating disorder brought up in a wt loss forum can be helped with good strategies shared by ordinary successful people.
Being a forum you're gonna get different topics and individual cases.
Anyway, do you think that any dieter -- I'm not talking about those with medical issue -- can take the generic advice that she can have a salad and Oreos and have it work, even if it works for you? I think it's a little naive if you think so.
But if that's my experience and I clearly state that's what I do but YMMV what else can I do?
I mean, I'm not even a fan of Oreos but I can certainly see the merits of fitting one in if you so desire and can moderate them.
I can't cover all bases because I only have my personal experience to offer, or at the very least all I can offer is generic advice if the OP/person asking doesn't fully disclose any issues they may have.2
This discussion has been closed.
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