Evil Dairy?
Replies
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...I was prompted to put the question out there, as once again I saw a video with a naturopath advising to cut out dairy. I just have never heard the scientific reason (outside of allergies, medical issues) for that train of thought. I'm going to keep eating it!!
The bolded word above is the root of the problem. Naturopaths are quacks and naturopathy is rooted in junk pseudoscience.
I only partially agree with you. Some are, for sure, but this particular Naturopath is a traditionally trained physician as well. In any case, I don't agree with her here.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Regarding cats, I've heard that a lot of them are actually lactose intolerant. That said, one of my cats loooves dairy. If I'm eating yogurt he will grab my hand and try to get to the spoon. (The other cat doesn't care about dairy.)
Dairy is perfectly healthy. Some people do have ethical problems with it; a lot of vegans don't eat it because the male calves are turned into veal, so it indirectly "produces" a meat, so to speak. Personally I try to buy pasture-raised milk / cheese because being cooped up in a building your entire life just seems terrible. (I am not a vegan / vegetarian.)
Another issue for vegans is that many cows used for dairy are slaughtered when they are no longer at peak production and the quality of life for those cows when they are engaged in milk production.[/quotNow that I think of it, does Bailey's count as dairy?
Haha, Maybe? Or it's all petroleum products like the international creamers. I love it anyway.
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The premise of naturopathy is based on false science....I was prompted to put the question out there, as once again I saw a video with a naturopath advising to cut out dairy. I just have never heard the scientific reason (outside of allergies, medical issues) for that train of thought. I'm going to keep eating it!!
The bolded word above is the root of the problem. Naturopaths are quacks and naturopathy is rooted in junk pseudoscience.
I only partially agree with you. Some are, for sure, but this particular Naturopath is a traditionally trained physician as well. In any case, I don't agree with her here.
I've heard naturopaths without any degrees call themselves naturopathic physicians.
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The premise of naturopathy is based on false science....I was prompted to put the question out there, as once again I saw a video with a naturopath advising to cut out dairy. I just have never heard the scientific reason (outside of allergies, medical issues) for that train of thought. I'm going to keep eating it!!
The bolded word above is the root of the problem. Naturopaths are quacks and naturopathy is rooted in junk pseudoscience.
I only partially agree with you. Some are, for sure, but this particular Naturopath is a traditionally trained physician as well. In any case, I don't agree with her here.
I've heard naturopaths without any degrees call themselves naturopathic physicians.
I have too. This one, however has her M.D. as well. Still not listening to her 1 -
It's evil is you're allergic to casein. My husband quit dairy and his heart burn, sinus issues, and constipation went away and he lost 15 lbs.0
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Geocitiesuser wrote: »I'm just looking for some insight. I've heard many people say that a person should cut out dairy. If it is organic, high quality and consumed in moderation, what is the problem? Why is it branded as "evil" lol
Anecdotally, I feel healthier when not consuming dairy. I don't need science to tell me it's evil. I just know my body functions better without it as part of my daily diet. Dairy, at least for me, is a sometimes food.
I'm not lactose intolerant that I know of, I used to eat a LOT of dairy, cottage cheese was a diet staple of mine for a while. But over time I have found that my bowels work better, my breath smells better, my skin is clearer, and I over all feel better, without dairy.
Also, I am in the camp that believes "organic" does not make a difference. I look forward to the future of GMO and the good it will do for mankind.
Same here. It's a personal choice rather than a weight loss issue but I feel a lot better since cutting dairy and others have noticed to the extent they comment on how well I look.
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The premise of naturopathy is based on false science....I was prompted to put the question out there, as once again I saw a video with a naturopath advising to cut out dairy. I just have never heard the scientific reason (outside of allergies, medical issues) for that train of thought. I'm going to keep eating it!!
The bolded word above is the root of the problem. Naturopaths are quacks and naturopathy is rooted in junk pseudoscience.
I only partially agree with you. Some are, for sure, but this particular Naturopath is a traditionally trained physician as well. In any case, I don't agree with her here.
I've heard naturopaths without any degrees call themselves naturopathic physicians.
I have too. This one, however has her M.D. as well. Still not listening to her
Most people here preach science and ask your doctor, etc etc etc. But when the medical doctor decides there is merit to treating the body naturally and decides to become an ND also then they are no longer a valid source of information and help. Not only is that hypocritical but you've also just excommunicated a whole slough of osteopathic doctors that are medical doctors but lean natural. So really, people on MFP pick and choose who and what they want to believe, it has nothing to do with science and what they've studied. Real world experience treating patients matters in so many more ways then the worshipped "studies."2 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »
The premise of naturopathy is based on false science....I was prompted to put the question out there, as once again I saw a video with a naturopath advising to cut out dairy. I just have never heard the scientific reason (outside of allergies, medical issues) for that train of thought. I'm going to keep eating it!!
The bolded word above is the root of the problem. Naturopaths are quacks and naturopathy is rooted in junk pseudoscience.
I only partially agree with you. Some are, for sure, but this particular Naturopath is a traditionally trained physician as well. In any case, I don't agree with her here.
I've heard naturopaths without any degrees call themselves naturopathic physicians.
I have too. This one, however has her M.D. as well. Still not listening to her
Most people here preach science and ask your doctor, etc etc etc. But when the medical doctor decides there is merit to treating the body naturally and decides to become an ND also then they are no longer a valid source of information and help. Not only is that hypocritical but you've also just excommunicated a whole slough of osteopathic doctors that are medical doctors but lean natural. So really, people on MFP pick and choose who and what they want to believe, it has nothing to do with science and what they've studied. Real world experience treating patients matters in so many more ways then the worshipped "studies."
I also would not trust an MD that chose to become a ND. The premise of naturopathic "medicine" is false.
This isn't saying I won't use proven natural remedies, or see doctors that suggest a combination of both.
Also an osteopathic doctor in the US is not the same as overseas. Here they actually get medical training. Overseas they do not.3 -
I also would not trust an MD that chose to become a ND. The premise of naturopathic "medicine" is false.
This isn't saying I won't use proven natural remedies, or see doctors that suggest a combination of both.
Also an osteopathic doctor in the US is not the same as overseas. Here they actually get medical training. Overseas they do not.
So if an MD decides to use both natural and standard medicine does it delegitimize them as a doctor? Or have they just figured out that standard medicine doesn't have all the answers and natural medicine isn't "woo?" There is nothing wrong with ND's that are well trained. I've said it 100 times before. There are good MD's and crappy MD's. And there are good ND's and crappy ND's. And quite frankly, in my experience of both worlds, it's about 50/50 good to crappy. I've fired a number of both. In interviewing 30 natural health doctors across the US, I found two I even considered using. I interviewed ten medical doctors when we moved here. I found one I would consider and he happened to be a DO, not because I was specifically looking for a DO. There's good and bad on both sides. The bad MD's don't stain all medical doctors - those bad doctors just tend to have less patients. The same is true for ND's. The ones people have success with will have lots of patients. The ones that stink will not. Both are legitimate forms of medicine.
As far as DO's - I'm in the US. I don't care what they require of DO's overseas. In this country, they are MD's and my question still stands. Are y'all going to throw out the DO's because you believe natural medicine is "woo?" The MD that also is an ND has more credibility and experience in both realms then any single MD has got. They have a much broader base of experience in treating disease. They will often use medicine to sustain a person while they work on natural treatments for the root cause of a person's ailment. Does that make them a better doctor or worse? And what do you all do with the MD's that are also homeopaths and use both in their practice? There a quite a lot of them.0 -
Also, just because they are a MD doesn't make them all knowing gods. My dads trusted doctor told him not to worry about the mole on his leg, he is now dead because of that doctors incompetence!
My doctor prescribed a host of different and expensive creams to get rid of the "eczema" on my stomach none of which worked.. WHY? Because it wasn't flipan eczema to begin with.
My husband wanted to get blood taken to see if he was deficient in any vitamins/minerals. The doctor told him not to bother as these deficiencies don't show up on blood tests anyway.
I'm sure there are hundreds of stories of people blindly listening to their doctors and regretting it..3 -
Maybe they say it's evil because it's high fat? I don't know lol...so many people like to tell others that they should do what they are doing...forgetting that we are all different. I eat it in moderation myself because I am a bit intolerant. My baby couldn't handle it either and I put him on goat milk formula and he does fine with that.0
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ronjsteele1 wrote: »
I also would not trust an MD that chose to become a ND. The premise of naturopathic "medicine" is false.
This isn't saying I won't use proven natural remedies, or see doctors that suggest a combination of both.
Also an osteopathic doctor in the US is not the same as overseas. Here they actually get medical training. Overseas they do not.
So if an MD decides to use both natural and standard medicine does it delegitimize them as a doctor? Or have they just figured out that standard medicine doesn't have all the answers and natural medicine isn't "woo?" There is nothing wrong with ND's that are well trained. I've said it 100 times before. There are good MD's and crappy MD's. And there are good ND's and crappy ND's. And quite frankly, in my experience of both worlds, it's about 50/50 good to crappy. I've fired a number of both. In interviewing 30 natural health doctors across the US, I found two I even considered using. I interviewed ten medical doctors when we moved here. I found one I would consider and he happened to be a DO, not because I was specifically looking for a DO. There's good and bad on both sides. The bad MD's don't stain all medical doctors - those bad doctors just tend to have less patients. The same is true for ND's. The ones people have success with will have lots of patients. The ones that stink will not. Both are legitimate forms of medicine.
As far as DO's - I'm in the US. I don't care what they require of DO's overseas. In this country, they are MD's and my question still stands. Are y'all going to throw out the DO's because you believe natural medicine is "woo?" The MD that also is an ND has more credibility and experience in both realms then any single MD has got. They have a much broader base of experience in treating disease. They will often use medicine to sustain a person while they work on natural treatments for the root cause of a person's ailment. Does that make them a better doctor or worse? And what do you all do with the MD's that are also homeopaths and use both in their practice? There a quite a lot of them.
Naturopathy is not science based medicine. There is also no national standard on what makes a naturopath, or what they are allowed to do state by state.
Good MDs and DOs follow science based medicine. Sometimes it's what you might consider "natural" sometimes it's what you might not consider natural. The difference is that it works. It's been studied and found to have the best outcomes. I know that when I go to a doctor they don't just prescribe meds or cut into me. There are other things they suggest like diet and specific exercises. It's a combination.
And let's not go into homeopathy. The idea that water can hold the memory of something it was exposed to and diluted millions of times and then turned into sugar pills?
(I wont see DOs not lisenced in the US or Canada. They do not have the same training in other countries. And for chiropractors, the ones that stick with Physical therapy are fine, but I choose to see physical therapists instead, but there is a large amount of chiropractors that push a lot of woo and quackery.)
Please point out where I made a comment against DOs in the US?7 -
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Dairy is the root of all evil. No wait, money is the root of all evil. That's it. Money.1
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Don't eat money. Got it. (Well, apart from chocolate coins, anyway.)2
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Christine_72 wrote: »Also, just because they are a MD doesn't make them all knowing gods. My dads trusted doctor told him not to worry about the mole on his leg, he is now dead because of that doctors incompetence!
My doctor prescribed a host of different and expensive creams to get rid of the "eczema" on my stomach none of which worked.. WHY? Because it wasn't flipan eczema to begin with.
My husband wanted to get blood taken to see if he was deficient in any vitamins/minerals. The doctor told him not to bother as these deficiencies don't show up on blood tests anyway.
I'm sure there are hundreds of stories of people blindly listening to their doctors and regretting it..
THIS. ^^^^^ 1000 times over, THIS. After years of dealing with MD's that are completely incompetent I finally found the solution to good health. Whatever an MD tells me to do, I do the exact opposite. I don't let them suggests tests, I tell them what tests they will run (if we need them). Because in the end, I pay them for a service, I don't pay them to boss me around. I learned after too many times that there is a reason they call it "practicing" medicine. Not only will I not be their guinea pig, but that's not science (for those that worship at the alter of science and studies).1 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »
The premise of naturopathy is based on false science....I was prompted to put the question out there, as once again I saw a video with a naturopath advising to cut out dairy. I just have never heard the scientific reason (outside of allergies, medical issues) for that train of thought. I'm going to keep eating it!!
The bolded word above is the root of the problem. Naturopaths are quacks and naturopathy is rooted in junk pseudoscience.
I only partially agree with you. Some are, for sure, but this particular Naturopath is a traditionally trained physician as well. In any case, I don't agree with her here.
I've heard naturopaths without any degrees call themselves naturopathic physicians.
I have too. This one, however has her M.D. as well. Still not listening to her
Most people here preach science and ask your doctor, etc etc etc. But when the medical doctor decides there is merit to treating the body naturally and decides to become an ND also then they are no longer a valid source of information and help. Not only is that hypocritical but you've also just excommunicated a whole slough of osteopathic doctors that are medical doctors but lean natural. So really, people on MFP pick and choose who and what they want to believe, it has nothing to do with science and what they've studied. Real world experience treating patients matters in so many more ways then the worshipped "studies."
I also would not trust an MD that chose to become a ND. The premise of naturopathic "medicine" is false.
This isn't saying I won't use proven natural remedies, or see doctors that suggest a combination of both.
Also an osteopathic doctor in the US is not the same as overseas. Here they actually get medical training. Overseas they do not.
I am all for a doctor who takes a holistic approach with treatment. These will look at prevention and natural ways with diet, fitness and supplements for treating a condition rather than just writing a prescription to treat everything. This is vastly different than a naturopath who believes in pseudoscience to treat something. Like you I would be reluctant to trust an M.D. who turned to naturopathy because they have largely turned their back on science and moved to alternative treatment instead. If they were still willing to write a script when required then I might think twice but I doubt many of them would because then they would no longer be in the field of naturopathy.2 -
Couple things.
Cats are indeed largely lactose intolerant, you can buy lactose free milk in the pet aisle (or at least in the UK they do it) but of course, much like lactose intolerant or sensitive humans, a little won't send them running for the litter tray. Mine will have dregs from my cereal, or lick a mac and cheese bowl or a yoghurt pot with no adverse effects. But I'm not about to put down a bowl of milk for them, that would probably be a terrible idea.
And naturopaths? No.
There's a GP in my practice, who thankfully I've never seen, that tries to push all sorts onto his patients. Not quite sure how he survives but the stories that come out of his consultations are both hilarious and terrifying all at once. The GP I ask to see is amazing and if it wasn't for her I wouldn't have many of the diagnoses I have and I may not have yet bothered trying to lose weight.
So a poor doctor not catching cancer or a skin condition doesn't make all doctors and modern medicine totally unreliable. You can be damn sure if I think I have cancer I am not going to a naturopath, MD or not.
Edit to add. I'm in the UK so medical treatment is free. The NHS only funds proven medicines and treatments because of budgetary constraints and sometimes it's controversial. The only controversy around natural medicine and the NHS is the fact that any of it can be accessed in the system. I cannot see a naturopath on the NHS. Make of that what you will.2 -
Naturopathy is not science based medicine. There is also no national standard on what makes a naturopath, or what they are allowed to do state by state.
Good MDs and DOs follow science based medicine. Sometimes it's what you might consider "natural" sometimes it's what you might not consider natural. The difference is that it works. It's been studied and found to have the best outcomes. I know that when I go to a doctor they don't just prescribe meds or cut into me. There are other things they suggest like diet and specific exercises. It's a combination.
And let's not go into homeopathy. The idea that water can hold the memory of something it was exposed to and diluted millions of times and then turned into sugar pills?
(I wont see DOs not lisenced in the US or Canada. They do not have the same training in other countries. And for chiropractors, the ones that stick with Physical therapy are fine, but I choose to see physical therapists instead, but there is a large amount of chiropractors that push a lot of woo and quackery.)
Please point out where I made a comment against DOs in the US?
We are going to have to agree to disagree. This is an excellent website that compares the differences between MD's, ND's, and naturepaths. http://www.thenddc.com/know-naturopathic-doctors/ There IS a difference between an ND and a naturepath, although most people do not separate the two. It is not pseudoscience, but I really don't care what anyone else thinks and I'm not going to try to convince someone. There's plenty of evidence comparing the studies of MD's and ND's for someone to see the difference. I hate to burst your bubble but my ND in another state was (and had to be to practice) fully licensed by the state and licensed to write prescriptions as well. These guys have as much training as medical doctors do. I don't get why people think they don't (except maybe they are lumping ND's and naturepaths into one pot).
So the MD (as in medical doctor) that uses homeopathy in his practice is disregarded? How does one jive that with the fact that there are quite a lot of MD's that are also homeopaths in this world (both US and overseas)? It somehow makes them less of a doctor? People here wouldn't have done well with my MIL's oncologist that was trained in China as an oncologist but used only TCM with his patients. In most cases, natural practitioners use a combination of western diagnostic testing (we do plenty of lab work) with eastern forms of medicine. Where my MIL was treated for leukemia had an entire office where oncologists sent their patients for alternative therapies to compliment their western treatments. Do the doctors that do that believe it's "woo?" I highly doubt it or they would not have heavily pushed it in their office. Just because western medicine hasn't caught up with natural medicine does not mean it's "woo" (as evidenced by the number of hospitals and doctors offices that treat cancer patients now offering these services).
A DO HAS to be licensed in the US or they cannot practice as a DO. And yes, there are still DO's that practice manipulation (mine does). He also does not believe in pushing vaccinations (but he will do them for those that want them), he uses antibiotics only when absolutely necessary (I find they never are but whatever), and he generally leans heavily to the natural. He's also in an office with 8 other very traditional MD's. Apparently, they don't think he's too "woo."
I did not separate out the quotes above yours (too time consuming when in a hurry). I was responding to multiple posted quotes at once. My apologies for not taking the time to break them out and specifically answering each quote that I was addressing. I usually just by-pass these conversations for the sake of time and energy but having dealt with huge dairy issues for almost 20yrs, I have enough knowledge to say something about it and post. Ha! I should have followed my instincts.
Posting is a time stealer.... 0 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »
Naturopathy is not science based medicine. There is also no national standard on what makes a naturopath, or what they are allowed to do state by state.
Good MDs and DOs follow science based medicine. Sometimes it's what you might consider "natural" sometimes it's what you might not consider natural. The difference is that it works. It's been studied and found to have the best outcomes. I know that when I go to a doctor they don't just prescribe meds or cut into me. There are other things they suggest like diet and specific exercises. It's a combination.
And let's not go into homeopathy. The idea that water can hold the memory of something it was exposed to and diluted millions of times and then turned into sugar pills?
(I wont see DOs not lisenced in the US or Canada. They do not have the same training in other countries. And for chiropractors, the ones that stick with Physical therapy are fine, but I choose to see physical therapists instead, but there is a large amount of chiropractors that push a lot of woo and quackery.)
Please point out where I made a comment against DOs in the US?
We are going to have to agree to disagree. This is an excellent website that compares the differences between MD's, ND's, and naturepaths. http://www.thenddc.com/know-naturopathic-doctors/ There IS a difference between an ND and a naturepath, although most people do not separate the two. It is not pseudoscience, but I really don't care what anyone else thinks and I'm not going to try to convince someone. There's plenty of evidence comparing the studies of MD's and ND's for someone to see the difference. I hate to burst your bubble but my ND in another state was (and had to be to practice) fully licensed by the state and licensed to write prescriptions as well. These guys have as much training as medical doctors do. I don't get why people think they don't (except maybe they are lumping ND's and naturepaths into one pot).
So the MD (as in medical doctor) that uses homeopathy in his practice is disregarded? How does one jive that with the fact that there are quite a lot of MD's that are also homeopaths in this world (both US and overseas)? It somehow makes them less of a doctor? People here wouldn't have done well with my MIL's oncologist that was trained in China as an oncologist but used only TCM with his patients. In most cases, natural practitioners use a combination of western diagnostic testing (we do plenty of lab work) with eastern forms of medicine. Where my MIL was treated for leukemia had an entire office where oncologists sent their patients for alternative therapies to compliment their western treatments. Do the doctors that do that believe it's "woo?" I highly doubt it or they would not have heavily pushed it in their office. Just because western medicine hasn't caught up with natural medicine does not mean it's "woo" (as evidenced by the number of hospitals and doctors offices that treat cancer patients now offering these services).
A DO HAS to be licensed in the US or they cannot practice as a DO. And yes, there are still DO's that practice manipulation (mine does). He also does not believe in pushing vaccinations (but he will do them for those that want them), he uses antibiotics only when absolutely necessary (I find they never are but whatever), and he generally leans heavily to the natural. He's also in an office with 8 other very traditional MD's. Apparently, they don't think he's too "woo."
I did not separate out the quotes above yours (too time consuming when in a hurry). I was responding to multiple posted quotes at once. My apologies for not taking the time to break them out and specifically answering each quote that I was addressing. I usually just by-pass these conversations for the sake of time and energy but having dealt with huge dairy issues for almost 20yrs, I have enough knowledge to say something about it and post. Ha! I should have followed my instincts. Posting is a time stealer....
NDs do get licensed... by an organisation that is apparently completely separate from the whole "actual doctor" stuff. There's also a whole 7 places in the entire US and Canada where you can do that.
And yes, a MD who does homeopathy is not trustworthy as they're doing something that is proven to not work and pretending or actually believing it helps. That's kindof a big deal.
And spare me that "Western medicine hasn't caught up with eastern medicine" crap.7 -
Dairy is the root of all evil. No wait, money is the root of all evil. That's it. Money.
Love of money is the root of all evil.
OP, maybe try it out? I'd never heard that dairy is bad before, but I don't think that going dairy-free would necessarily be harmful. Might be an interesting experiment.0 -
I'm just looking for some insight. I've heard many people say that a person should cut out dairy. If it is organic, high quality and consumed in moderation, what is the problem? Why is it branded as "evil" lol
That's silly. Cut out dairy if you have an allergy or intolerance to it. Otherwise, eat high quality, low quality or medium quality dairy, your choice.
No food is good or bad, it's just all food.0 -
We don't really NEED the lactation fluids from another species. There is lots of calcium in other foods. And it might not be as good for men and their prostates ( NIH 2014 published a study linking milk, red meat, and fat to the risk for prostate cancer). Having said that, I would be hard pressed to give up my plain fat free Greek yogurt. I love the stuff. There might be something to milk producing hormones given to cows, even though my dairy farm cousins tell me it is all natural. A lot of milk products contain added sugars and saturated fat and flavorings and hard to pronounce ingredients. I don't know. I'm sticking to my mostly Mediterranean Diet without drinking milk, and I'm getting a flatter belly, but I won't give up my yogurt unless a very compelling reason is found.0
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