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Fasting
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Could you please answer my question? I think I've made it all fairly clear. Someone eats one meal per day of 500 calories more than they need. These calories are made up of fat and protein. They do this for several months. What happens to the excess calories and how does it work?0
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NimCould you please answer my question? I think I've made it all fairly clear. Someone eats one meal per day of 500 calories more than they need. These calories are made up of fat and protein. They do this for several months. What happens to the excess calories and how does it work?
Hi, just read this. Draw your own conclusion. This was turning into a wall of text. I'm lazy ATM. Sue me. https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-physiology-part-ii/0 -
NimCould you please answer my question? I think I've made it all fairly clear. Someone eats one meal per day of 500 calories more than they need. These calories are made up of fat and protein. They do this for several months. What happens to the excess calories and how does it work?
Hi, just read this. Draw your own conclusion. This was turning into a wall of text. I'm lazy ATM. Sue me. https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-physiology-part-ii/
That doesn't say that a daily calorie surplus will be negated if someone fasts. It doesn't talk about a calorie surplus at all.1 -
NimCould you please answer my question? I think I've made it all fairly clear. Someone eats one meal per day of 500 calories more than they need. These calories are made up of fat and protein. They do this for several months. What happens to the excess calories and how does it work?
Hi, just read this. Draw your own conclusion. This was turning into a wall of text. I'm lazy ATM. Sue me. https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-physiology-part-ii/
That doesn't say that a daily calorie surplus will be negated if someone fasts. It doesn't talk about a calorie surplus at all.
Your TEE increases too.. seriously read the blog. What's his six hour lecture on the etiology on obesity. It wil be explained throughly. Good night. Wife says stop now.0 -
NimCould you please answer my question? I think I've made it all fairly clear. Someone eats one meal per day of 500 calories more than they need. These calories are made up of fat and protein. They do this for several months. What happens to the excess calories and how does it work?
Hi, just read this. Draw your own conclusion. This was turning into a wall of text. I'm lazy ATM. Sue me. https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-physiology-part-ii/
That doesn't say that a daily calorie surplus will be negated if someone fasts. It doesn't talk about a calorie surplus at all.
Your TEE increases too.. seriously read the blog. What's his six hour lecture on the etiology on obesity. It wil be explained throughly. Good night. Wife says stop now.
I already stated that TDEE increases after 16 hours in the fasted state. That's well known. I also stated 500 calories beyond total daily needs.0 -
People trying to debate stuff that they obviously don't understand never turns out pretty.5
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It's rather difficult to contend with armchair science and google theses days. Whilst the intent was to inform causally, and direct folks to a staring point, I was sucked into a course of conversation not suited for an iPhone and facts to support my claims. Here I concede. Enjoy the process. Do the research. Fasting works. Now go find out why.0
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Kidney damage is irreversible. Define cure of diabetes. To say the absence of a condition that no long requires medical intervention, does this suffice? If so I say cure.
Hmmm .... I think it's more remission ... cause Remission: Disappearance of the signs and symptoms of cancer or other disease. A remission can be temporary or permanent.
With diabeties ... Type 1 is never cured, Type 2 can go into remission and kept in remission as long as the supporting lifestyle and organ health remains constant. ... Have Type 2 long enough and you won't be able to get it under control and into a state of remission. .... I'm from a long line of Type 2 Diabetics and have seen it's affects on generations of people. (PS ... both immediate family line and other family tree limb lines)
Thanks for sharing by the way. Why do you believe this?
Why do believe Type 2 Diabeties can go into remission but not be 'cured'? .... I suppose it's really a subjective thing for me personally. Cure signifies no traces left of the disease. Remission, to me, signifies, no further damage is currently active ... but that doesn't mean that damage already done has been put back to normal. ... Maybe it's a bit of symantics on my part. Maybe it's also how long the remission lasts and if other physical improvements are experienced that had been compromized in the uncontrolled or even tightly controlled state.
Cure = once the treatment is over, you don't have the problem anymore. Broken arm -> get a cast, wait a few weeks -> cast gets off -> no broken arm anymore and no further steps have to be taken.
Remission = you still have it throughout the whole process. Diabetes -> you get your insulin under control through diet etc. -> no symptoms anymore but you'll always have to keep your insulin in check, there is never going to be a point at which you can eat anything without thinking about it like healthy people.7 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Don't need to! Dr Fung claims you can cure diabetes. Hogwash.
I read there is significant quality research proving many (not all) can reverse type 2 diabetes using diet/fasting. It's not hogwash.3 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Don't need to! Dr Fung claims you can cure diabetes. Hogwash.
I read there is significant quality research proving many (not all) can reverse type 2 diabetes using diet/fasting. It's not hogwash.
Reverse diabetes is different than cure diabetes.2 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Don't need to! Dr Fung claims you can cure diabetes. Hogwash.
I read there is significant quality research proving many (not all) can reverse type 2 diabetes using diet/fasting. It's not hogwash.
Reverse diabetes is different than cure diabetes.
I think you are splitting hairs with that definition.
Someone who gets off their meds probably feels cured, though 'remission' may be more apropos.5 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Don't need to! Dr Fung claims you can cure diabetes. Hogwash.
I read there is significant quality research proving many (not all) can reverse type 2 diabetes using diet/fasting. It's not hogwash.
Reverse diabetes is different than cure diabetes.
I think you are splitting hairs with that definition.
Someone who gets off their meds probably feels cured, though 'remission' may be more apropos.
Well, he is a medical doctor, he should know the difference. I'm not splitting hairs.1 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Don't need to! Dr Fung claims you can cure diabetes. Hogwash.
I read there is significant quality research proving many (not all) can reverse type 2 diabetes using diet/fasting. It's not hogwash.
Reverse diabetes is different than cure diabetes.
I think you are splitting hairs with that definition.
Someone who gets off their meds probably feels cured, though 'remission' may be more apropos.
Feels cured, eventually stops being as diligent with the diet because they feel good, whoopsiedaisy there is that pesky diabetes again because it was not cured, you only had the symptoms in check. That's the difference.6 -
stevencloser wrote: »Kidney damage is irreversible. Define cure of diabetes. To say the absence of a condition that no long requires medical intervention, does this suffice? If so I say cure.
Hmmm .... I think it's more remission ... cause Remission: Disappearance of the signs and symptoms of cancer or other disease. A remission can be temporary or permanent.
With diabeties ... Type 1 is never cured, Type 2 can go into remission and kept in remission as long as the supporting lifestyle and organ health remains constant. ... Have Type 2 long enough and you won't be able to get it under control and into a state of remission. .... I'm from a long line of Type 2 Diabetics and have seen it's affects on generations of people. (PS ... both immediate family line and other family tree limb lines)
Thanks for sharing by the way. Why do you believe this?
Why do believe Type 2 Diabeties can go into remission but not be 'cured'? .... I suppose it's really a subjective thing for me personally. Cure signifies no traces left of the disease. Remission, to me, signifies, no further damage is currently active ... but that doesn't mean that damage already done has been put back to normal. ... Maybe it's a bit of symantics on my part. Maybe it's also how long the remission lasts and if other physical improvements are experienced that had been compromized in the uncontrolled or even tightly controlled state.
Cure = once the treatment is over, you don't have the problem anymore. Broken arm -> get a cast, wait a few weeks -> cast gets off -> no broken arm anymore and no further steps have to be taken.
Remission = you still have it throughout the whole process. Diabetes -> you get your insulin under control through diet etc. -> no symptoms anymore but you'll always have to keep your insulin in check, there is never going to be a point at which you can eat anything without thinking about it like healthy people.
You think healthy people don't think about what they eat?
How do you think they stay healthy?
That's like saying that rich people never think about spending money.1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Kidney damage is irreversible. Define cure of diabetes. To say the absence of a condition that no long requires medical intervention, does this suffice? If so I say cure.
Hmmm .... I think it's more remission ... cause Remission: Disappearance of the signs and symptoms of cancer or other disease. A remission can be temporary or permanent.
With diabeties ... Type 1 is never cured, Type 2 can go into remission and kept in remission as long as the supporting lifestyle and organ health remains constant. ... Have Type 2 long enough and you won't be able to get it under control and into a state of remission. .... I'm from a long line of Type 2 Diabetics and have seen it's affects on generations of people. (PS ... both immediate family line and other family tree limb lines)
Thanks for sharing by the way. Why do you believe this?
Why do believe Type 2 Diabeties can go into remission but not be 'cured'? .... I suppose it's really a subjective thing for me personally. Cure signifies no traces left of the disease. Remission, to me, signifies, no further damage is currently active ... but that doesn't mean that damage already done has been put back to normal. ... Maybe it's a bit of symantics on my part. Maybe it's also how long the remission lasts and if other physical improvements are experienced that had been compromized in the uncontrolled or even tightly controlled state.
Cure = once the treatment is over, you don't have the problem anymore. Broken arm -> get a cast, wait a few weeks -> cast gets off -> no broken arm anymore and no further steps have to be taken.
Remission = you still have it throughout the whole process. Diabetes -> you get your insulin under control through diet etc. -> no symptoms anymore but you'll always have to keep your insulin in check, there is never going to be a point at which you can eat anything without thinking about it like healthy people.
You think healthy people don't think about what they eat?
How do you think they stay healthy?
That's like saying that rich people never think about spending money.
But that is not what he is saying. Cure versus remission. You cannot cure diabetes, if you let your guard it will reappear.0 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Kidney damage is irreversible. Define cure of diabetes. To say the absence of a condition that no long requires medical intervention, does this suffice? If so I say cure.
Hmmm .... I think it's more remission ... cause Remission: Disappearance of the signs and symptoms of cancer or other disease. A remission can be temporary or permanent.
With diabeties ... Type 1 is never cured, Type 2 can go into remission and kept in remission as long as the supporting lifestyle and organ health remains constant. ... Have Type 2 long enough and you won't be able to get it under control and into a state of remission. .... I'm from a long line of Type 2 Diabetics and have seen it's affects on generations of people. (PS ... both immediate family line and other family tree limb lines)
Thanks for sharing by the way. Why do you believe this?
Why do believe Type 2 Diabeties can go into remission but not be 'cured'? .... I suppose it's really a subjective thing for me personally. Cure signifies no traces left of the disease. Remission, to me, signifies, no further damage is currently active ... but that doesn't mean that damage already done has been put back to normal. ... Maybe it's a bit of symantics on my part. Maybe it's also how long the remission lasts and if other physical improvements are experienced that had been compromized in the uncontrolled or even tightly controlled state.
Cure = once the treatment is over, you don't have the problem anymore. Broken arm -> get a cast, wait a few weeks -> cast gets off -> no broken arm anymore and no further steps have to be taken.
Remission = you still have it throughout the whole process. Diabetes -> you get your insulin under control through diet etc. -> no symptoms anymore but you'll always have to keep your insulin in check, there is never going to be a point at which you can eat anything without thinking about it like healthy people.
You think healthy people don't think about what they eat?
How do you think they stay healthy?
That's like saying that rich people never think about spending money.
But that is not what he is saying. Cure versus remission. You cannot cure diabetes, if you let your guard it will reappear.
So all you have to do in that case is eat like a healthy person eats, and you'll be fine? If only cancer were so difficult.0 -
There's research that supports type 2 diabetes being reversible - the Newcastle study and bariatric surgery comes to mind - very low calorie diets both. It stands to reason fasting could provide the same results. If anecdotal evidence is to be believed eating low carb can get you the same results.
It's not a matter of "letting your guard down" it's a matter of not eating *kitten* food that makes people fat and sick. Don't do that and you'll reverse or prevent a whole host of diseases.1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Kidney damage is irreversible. Define cure of diabetes. To say the absence of a condition that no long requires medical intervention, does this suffice? If so I say cure.
Hmmm .... I think it's more remission ... cause Remission: Disappearance of the signs and symptoms of cancer or other disease. A remission can be temporary or permanent.
With diabeties ... Type 1 is never cured, Type 2 can go into remission and kept in remission as long as the supporting lifestyle and organ health remains constant. ... Have Type 2 long enough and you won't be able to get it under control and into a state of remission. .... I'm from a long line of Type 2 Diabetics and have seen it's affects on generations of people. (PS ... both immediate family line and other family tree limb lines)
Thanks for sharing by the way. Why do you believe this?
Why do believe Type 2 Diabeties can go into remission but not be 'cured'? .... I suppose it's really a subjective thing for me personally. Cure signifies no traces left of the disease. Remission, to me, signifies, no further damage is currently active ... but that doesn't mean that damage already done has been put back to normal. ... Maybe it's a bit of symantics on my part. Maybe it's also how long the remission lasts and if other physical improvements are experienced that had been compromized in the uncontrolled or even tightly controlled state.
Cure = once the treatment is over, you don't have the problem anymore. Broken arm -> get a cast, wait a few weeks -> cast gets off -> no broken arm anymore and no further steps have to be taken.
Remission = you still have it throughout the whole process. Diabetes -> you get your insulin under control through diet etc. -> no symptoms anymore but you'll always have to keep your insulin in check, there is never going to be a point at which you can eat anything without thinking about it like healthy people.
You think healthy people don't think about what they eat?
How do you think they stay healthy?
That's like saying that rich people never think about spending money.
But that is not what he is saying. Cure versus remission. You cannot cure diabetes, if you let your guard it will reappear.
So all you have to do in that case is eat like a healthy person eats, and you'll be fine? If only cancer were so difficult.
A healthy person doesn't care if their blood sugar spikes, someone with diabetes does.0
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