Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Should your S.O./Spouse have a say so if they feel you are too thin or too large?
Replies
-
Nope we can't force people to change but do we just abandon someone who is going through the worst thing ever3
-
lemurcat12 wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »The answer to bad moral character? I think everyone knows that's much, much harder than weight loss. A fat person (defined here as a person who is at 1 lb over the arbitrary WHO guide of BMI=25) can lose weight.They can bring joy to the lives of others. They can participate in athletic activities, be upstanding members of their communities, be generous and kind,and fun, and small good, and yes, have sex with ordinary humans without crushing them or breaking bones. And they can, as I said, lose the weight.
A narrow, shallow, judgmental person changing is the stuff of fairy tales.
I personally think anyone married to such a person is better off without the dead weight of that spouse.
So, physical attraction is a matter of morals?
I love it how everyone is supposedly for communication and honesty in marriages, as long as there is actually no real communication and honesty happening...
It's not about physical attraction after a certain point. After all, we're all going to age, and wrinkled bits and sagging boobs and whatnot aren't all that.
An established long-standing relationship becomes about more than physical attraction after a while. It stops mattering. You are making love to the person who has shared life's ups and downs with you and sex is about expressing everything you feel for each other.
This has been the thrust of all the push back in this discussion. The idea of being turned on because they look hot just then and then going and having sex in a long-standing relationship is just not how it happens. I can remember that happening with my husband, way back in the early days, looking at him here and there and getting turned on, but that's just not how it works now.
not true. I understand exactly where you are coming from but it doesn't disappear for us all. This is why you will find a lot of long term couples who still workout, who still look well groomed, who still dress well and conduct themselves in a desirable manner. Some of these attributes are what individuals generally find attractive. Not everyone gives up because the ups and downs of life have worn them down. Some people are stronger, this is where varying personalities come in because some people manage lifes stresses differently to others. Some people are young at heart, they want to remain desirable, they have a high sex drive and they are youthful.
Your way is not the only way even though I appreciate it gets the majority count.
An established long term relationship is about everything you mention AND physical attraction for some.
And in life things happen. A lot of people have mentioned having things happen for a while and then making changes. People might find it harder to focus on fitness or to devote themselves to certain commonly enjoyed activities (two different things) during the first year of a baby's life or if a child was having health problems or when having to deal with parents with health problems or dying or with a worklife that becomes unmanageable. People go through periods where they may struggle with depression. People deal with health changes in different ways. My mother let herself go for a time after she had breast cancer and lost a breast. Yes, some might not. I don't think you can predict how you would react until you face the situation. That's definitely the case for aging. (And not everyone considers someone 65 being a little overweight = not caring about being attractive.)there really is no right or wrong answer here
Sure. But it's a conversation, and I think talking about what you would consider right in a relationship is fair game and not being mean, as you seem to think. That's what the original question was about -- would you say something.
I think suggesting/patronizing (more than once) someone has never been in a long term "established" relationship because their perspective on relationships is different leans towards being mean and takes away from having a 2 way healthy discussion. It's rather accusatory/condescending, no?
Loaded conversations.
3 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
I haven't gotten too much flack from men for my viewpoint, here or elsewhere.
I find men see this as a no brainer in general as they are sexually more driven.
It's women that get soppy about this stuff2 -
EbonyDahlia wrote: »It's not about not changing over time. That's reasonable. It's about respecting your partner enough to take care of yourself. You can't turn into a fat pig and then say "you should love me no matter what". That's disrespectful, and unreasonable IMO. People have a right to have standards. If you take care of yourself, and your partner does not, then you should say something. Or move on. Either way.
Pretty much this. The weight gain/loss is not the real issue, it's the attitude behind it (see bolded) Likewise if somebody uses the "You should love me no matter what card" in the case of neglecting hygiene, quitting a job or reducing hours to play video games on the couch all day because 'their income will support us both just fine', drinking/drugs/gambling. An attitude of "I can do whatever I like and you MUST like it or else you don't love me" does not lend well to a healthy relationship.
The answer to that is not that the person who leaves is a horrible person because they ended the relationship, either. It's one thing to support someone who is actually making an effort to be a partner, and another to have them make no effort at all.Therealobi1 wrote: »Nope we can't force people to change but do we just abandon someone who is going through the worst thing ever
So let's say I developed a serious gambling habit because of some trauma that I refuse to deal with and instead would rather burn through all the savings and go into debt by running up a bunch of credit cards at the local casino. My SO is understandably upset about this and has brought it up multiple times, encouraged me to get help for the underlying problem, and is even willing to pay for a counselor. Except that when I say I'm going to my therapy appointment, I actually go to the casino instead and lose even more money.
Is my SO a bad person to lay it down and say "I have given you time, I have paid for therapy, and I have told you that this behavior is destructive to our relationship and that if it continued I would have no choice but to end things. This has continued for months and you have racked up even more debt. This relationship is over. I will have no further contact with you."?3 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »Nope we can't force people to change but do we just abandon someone who is going through the worst thing ever
It depends on what is the worst time ever and what is causing it.
I am stressed at work, have been this way for the last 3 years, and as a result I am e.g. drinking 10 cans of beer to "cope", is not for example something that for me would qualify as a bad time.
I had a baby 5 years ago and this explains why I have been 100 lbs overweight ever since, no this does not sound right either.
My mother just died 2 weeks ago, or I am battling with a disabling terminal illness, that's a completely different story.5 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »I have a cousin that went through this exact thing. Furthermore, she would over indulge in private or at work. Her husband would pay for PTs and she would come over my house while he would think she was there. She looooooooved candy and always had sweets around. She had no interest in losing weight. He was so supportive and patient, she even had health issues from the weight gain. When they first met she was probably 125 lbs and she got up to 249 lbs. But she met him after her mom was brutally raped and left for murder, her brother was killed a couple years after that, she lived from house to house and was separated from her young sister at this time. She had a very rough child hood and unfortunate situations after another...she suffers from major depression. Her main goal is to get through the day and pretend that everything is ok. I think the proper route to take if your partner/spouse is gaining weight is to address the underlying issue.
That sounds a lot like you expect him to just keep his mouth shut about it and continue wasting money paying a trainer while his wife lies to him.
Wow is that what you got out of that? What planet do you live on? You asked me what if they do not want to lose weight and you give them months and they don't lose weight but gain more weight...I shared with you a true story (never once in this whole thread did I state that a partner should keep his mouth shut - NEVER) My point is some people weight gain is a result of something else that manifest itself through extra weight. Deal with the root cause with the person YOU LOVE.0 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »Wow is that what you got out of that? What planet do you live on? You asked me what if they do not want to lose weight and you give them months and they don't lose weight but gain more weight...I shared with you a true story (never once in this whole thread did I state that a partner should keep his mouth shut - NEVER) My point is some people weight gain is a result of something else that manifest itself through extra weight. Deal with the root cause with the person YOU LOVE.
I asked you what then, and you told a story that had no resolution. Did the guy break up with her? Did she fix her issues? Did he just stop bringing it up? What actually happened?
Also, you can't fix someone else's "root cause" when they're lying to you about their own effort.4 -
SpotLighttt wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »The answer to bad moral character? I think everyone knows that's much, much harder than weight loss. A fat person (defined here as a person who is at 1 lb over the arbitrary WHO guide of BMI=25) can lose weight.They can bring joy to the lives of others. They can participate in athletic activities, be upstanding members of their communities, be generous and kind,and fun, and small good, and yes, have sex with ordinary humans without crushing them or breaking bones. And they can, as I said, lose the weight.
A narrow, shallow, judgmental person changing is the stuff of fairy tales.
I personally think anyone married to such a person is better off without the dead weight of that spouse.
So, physical attraction is a matter of morals?
I love it how everyone is supposedly for communication and honesty in marriages, as long as there is actually no real communication and honesty happening...
It's not about physical attraction after a certain point. After all, we're all going to age, and wrinkled bits and sagging boobs and whatnot aren't all that.
An established long-standing relationship becomes about more than physical attraction after a while. It stops mattering. You are making love to the person who has shared life's ups and downs with you and sex is about expressing everything you feel for each other.
This has been the thrust of all the push back in this discussion. The idea of being turned on because they look hot just then and then going and having sex in a long-standing relationship is just not how it happens. I can remember that happening with my husband, way back in the early days, looking at him here and there and getting turned on, but that's just not how it works now.
not true. I understand exactly where you are coming from but it doesn't disappear for us all. This is why you will find a lot of long term couples who still workout, who still look well groomed, who still dress well and conduct themselves in a desirable manner. Some of these attributes are what individuals generally find attractive. Not everyone gives up because the ups and downs of life have worn them down. Some people are stronger, this is where varying personalities come in because some people manage lifes stresses differently to others. Some people are young at heart, they want to remain desirable, they have a high sex drive and they are youthful.
Your way is not the only way even though I appreciate it gets the majority count.
An established long term relationship is about everything you mention AND physical attraction for some.
And in life things happen. A lot of people have mentioned having things happen for a while and then making changes. People might find it harder to focus on fitness or to devote themselves to certain commonly enjoyed activities (two different things) during the first year of a baby's life or if a child was having health problems or when having to deal with parents with health problems or dying or with a worklife that becomes unmanageable. People go through periods where they may struggle with depression. People deal with health changes in different ways. My mother let herself go for a time after she had breast cancer and lost a breast. Yes, some might not. I don't think you can predict how you would react until you face the situation. That's definitely the case for aging. (And not everyone considers someone 65 being a little overweight = not caring about being attractive.)there really is no right or wrong answer here
Sure. But it's a conversation, and I think talking about what you would consider right in a relationship is fair game and not being mean, as you seem to think. That's what the original question was about -- would you say something.
I think suggesting/patronizing (more than once) someone has never been in a long term "established" relationship because their perspective on relationships is different leans towards being mean and takes away from having a 2 way healthy discussion. It's rather accusatory/condescending, no?
Loaded conversations.
I didn't say that (although I don't think it's especially mean to say that -- it's akin to saying "you'd feel differently if you had children." Annoying to those without children, I'm sure, but fair game if someone offers an opinion about what a parent should do in certain situations, IMO. (I don't have children, btw. I don't think it's mean to point that out.)
I also think saying that it might be different if someone were actually in the situation (dealing with a real person they loved and not just a hypothetical person they were imagining had no excuse for gaining a few lbs and no extenuating circumstances and obviously deserved no sympathy, was just being a loser) rather than just thinking about it theoretically (which is what I did say) is assuming the best of someone.2 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »Nope we can't force people to change but do we just abandon someone who is going through the worst thing ever
then why are we forced to accept?1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »So let's say I developed a serious gambling habit because of some trauma that I refuse to deal with and instead would rather burn through all the savings and go into debt by running up a bunch of credit cards at the local casino. My SO is understandably upset about this and has brought it up multiple times, encouraged me to get help for the underlying problem, and is even willing to pay for a counselor. Except that when I say I'm going to my therapy appointment, I actually go to the casino instead and lose even more money.
Is my SO a bad person to lay it down and say "I have given you time, I have paid for therapy, and I have told you that this behavior is destructive to our relationship and that if it continued I would have no choice but to end things. This has continued for months and you have racked up even more debt. This relationship is over. I will have no further contact with you."?
So this, in your mind, is reasonably analogous to gaining sufficient weight to be, say, a BMI 25.5?
And not losing weight successfully does not always mean you are not trying. It's simple, but not always easy.
I would like to move away from the focus on a specific person, so since others are bringing up hypotheticals (and don't seem to want this thread to be over, which I think would really be the best), let's talk about it hypothetically.
(However, I'll note that I think the "I'd kick the fat partner to the curb, and what I mean is anyone overweight at all" thing was brought up intentionally to make a point about how awful and unacceptable it is, always, to gain weight, to slam overweight people as not being worthwhile acceptable partners at all. Many, not all of us, have been overweight, even though of course we ultimately lost it, or are in the process of doing so. Many of us (not me, for the record, not that it should matter) also have overweight partners who we love. So that disagreeing and saying "that doesn't seem like what someone in a committed relationship would really do" is being called the mean position is rather ironic, IMO.)7 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »So let's say I developed a serious gambling habit because of some trauma that I refuse to deal with and instead would rather burn through all the savings and go into debt by running up a bunch of credit cards at the local casino. My SO is understandably upset about this and has brought it up multiple times, encouraged me to get help for the underlying problem, and is even willing to pay for a counselor. Except that when I say I'm going to my therapy appointment, I actually go to the casino instead and lose even more money.
Is my SO a bad person to lay it down and say "I have given you time, I have paid for therapy, and I have told you that this behavior is destructive to our relationship and that if it continued I would have no choice but to end things. This has continued for months and you have racked up even more debt. This relationship is over. I will have no further contact with you."?
So this, in your mind, is reasonably analogous to gaining sufficient weight to be, say, a BMI 25.5?
Yes. By that point it has already been discussed more than once and consequences have been made clear.And not losing weight successfully does not always mean you are not trying. It's simple, but not always easy.
I don't accept that.I would like to move away from the focus on a specific person, so since others are bringing up hypotheticals (and don't seem to want this thread to be over, which I think would really be the best), let's talk about it hypothetically.
Didn't you just criticize me literally six minutes ago because you think this is all theoretical and that there's no way it could possibly be like this in an actual relationship?(However, I'll note that I think the "I'd kick the fat partner to the curb, and what I mean is anyone overweight at all" thing was brought up intentionally to make a point about how awful and unacceptable it is, always, to gain weight, to slam overweight people as not being worthwhile acceptable partners at all. Many, not all of us, have been overweight, even though of course we ultimately lost it, or are in the process of doing so. Many of us also have overweight partners who we love. So that disagreeing and saying "that doesn't seem like what someone in a committed relationship would really do" is being called the mean position is rather ironic, IMO.)
Again, what I have said about my relationships with my partners has never been about you, and I sure didn't make it up just to irritate you.1 -
I don't condemn narrow and highly exclusive meteics of physical attraction. That's your business.
But where I'm from, marriage is a life - long commitment. We promise to "love, honor and cherish one another for better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and health, so long as we both shall live"
If you really don't mean those words, you have no business saying them in the first place. Draw up a legal roommate agreement, because you want a temporary relationship.
So this pushback isn't about some arbitrary declaration of physical attraction. It's about the very nature of marriage and life - long commitment. No one is misunderstanding those who say "I'll divorce my spouse if they're a single pound overweight". There's no misunderstanding that. Commitment to another person means a great deal more to me
For crying out loud, if the worst thing my husband ever did was become overweight, I would have cried for joy and considered myself the luckiest woman on earth.15 -
I don't condemn narrow and highly exclusive meteics of physical attraction. That's your business.
But where I'm from, marriage is a life - long commitment. We promise to "love, honor and cherish one another for better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and health, so long as we both shall live"
If you really don't mean those words, you have no business saying them in the first place. Draw up a legal roommate agreement, because you want a temporary relationship.
So this pushback isn't about some arbitrary declaration of physical attraction. It's about the very nature of marriage and life - long commitment. No one is misunderstanding those who say "I'll divorce my spouse if they're a single pound overweight". There's no misunderstanding that. Commitment to another person means a great deal more to me
For crying out loud, I'd the worst thing my husband ever did was become overweight, I would have cried for joy and considered myself the luckiest woman on earth.
...a marriage is a legal contract. Vows mean different things to different people but that is a fact.
I'm married and I've been with him for ten years and I plan on staying with him for the rest of my life. But we both know that there's a chance something could go wrong and sorry, but if that's the way it goes for us and we're no longer happy in our relationship and it can't be fixed then it will end.
I refuse to let the fact that we married one another stop us from being happy down the road.
In terms of what I bolded, I actually think that's exactly what the issue is here. This is MyFitnessPal, a website/app where the majority of people come to in order to lose weight so of course most people will be very offended when someone says, "if my spouse gets fat and won't exercise then I'd leave him," because then the thought is, "...but I'm overweight so you must think I'm a worthless human being."
That's exactly what I was about to say.2 -
...a marriage is a legal contract. Vows mean different things to different people but that is a fact.
I'm married and I've been with him for ten years and I plan on staying with him for the rest of my life. But we both know that there's a chance something could go wrong and sorry, but if that's the way it goes for us and we're no longer happy in our relationship and it can't be fixed then it will end.
I refuse to let the fact that we married one another stop us from being happy down the road.
In terms of what I bolded, I actually think that's exactly what the issue is here. This is MyFitnessPal, a website/app where the majority of people come to in order to lose weight so of course most people will be very offended when someone says, "if my spouse gets fat and won't exercise then I'd leave him," because then the thought is, "...but I'm overweight so you must think I'm a worthless human being that no one wants to stay married to."[/quote]
So in other words you are saying, I vow to be married to you until you get fat? And although I think the divorce rate is tooooooo high, I don't think one should not feel that they are stuck in a marriage forever. But I do believe in a marriage you should exhaust all possibilities before calling it quits.
0 -
I don't condemn narrow and highly exclusive meteics of physical attraction. That's your business.
But where I'm from, marriage is a life - long commitment. We promise to "love, honor and cherish one another for better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and health, so long as we both shall live"
If you really don't mean those words, you have no business saying them in the first place. Draw up a legal roommate agreement, because you want a temporary relationship.
So this pushback isn't about some arbitrary declaration of physical attraction. It's about the very nature of marriage and life - long commitment. No one is misunderstanding those who say "I'll divorce my spouse if they're a single pound overweight". There's no misunderstanding that. Commitment to another person means a great deal more to me
For crying out loud, I'd the worst thing my husband ever did was become overweight, I would have cried for joy and considered myself the luckiest woman on earth.
...a marriage is a legal contract. Vows mean different things to different people but that is a fact.
I'm married and I've been with him for ten years and I plan on staying with him for the rest of my life. But we both know that there's a chance something could go wrong and sorry, but if that's the way it goes for us and we're no longer happy in our relationship and it can't be fixed then it will end.
I refuse to let the fact that we married one another stop us from being happy down the road.
In terms of what I bolded, I actually think that's exactly what the issue is here. This is MyFitnessPal, a website/app where the majority of people come to in order to lose weight so of course most people will be very offended when someone says, "if my spouse gets fat and won't exercise then I'd leave him," because then the thought is, "...but I'm overweight so you must think I'm a worthless human being that no one wants to stay married to."
My interpretation of marriage vows would be in line with @tomteboda , which is why I waited until I was 34 to make these vows, but my interpretation only applies to me. I follow the wisdom of my parents who stressed long engagements and thorough discussions with my spouse to make sure we are both making the right decision and are truly a good fit.
I think there's a split in this debate between those who have had generally good relationships and those who have run into some bad actors. When you encounter one bad actor, whether it be passive aggressive, manipulative, or generally toxic behavior, your tolerance of these types of people lowers dramatically.
8 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »So let's say I developed a serious gambling habit because of some trauma that I refuse to deal with and instead would rather burn through all the savings and go into debt by running up a bunch of credit cards at the local casino. My SO is understandably upset about this and has brought it up multiple times, encouraged me to get help for the underlying problem, and is even willing to pay for a counselor. Except that when I say I'm going to my therapy appointment, I actually go to the casino instead and lose even more money.
Is my SO a bad person to lay it down and say "I have given you time, I have paid for therapy, and I have told you that this behavior is destructive to our relationship and that if it continued I would have no choice but to end things. This has continued for months and you have racked up even more debt. This relationship is over. I will have no further contact with you."?
So this, in your mind, is reasonably analogous to gaining sufficient weight to be, say, a BMI 25.5?
Yes. By that point it has already been discussed more than once and consequences have been made clear.
I was actually specifically asking Spottlight, since I am trying to move away from the discussion of what you would do, as that seemed to be bothering people.
But okay. I disagree.And not losing weight successfully does not always mean you are not trying. It's simple, but not always easy.
I don't accept that.[/quote]
Okay. I disagree.I would like to move away from the focus on a specific person, so since others are bringing up hypotheticals (and don't seem to want this thread to be over, which I think would really be the best), let's talk about it hypothetically.
Didn't you just criticize me literally six minutes ago because you think this is all theoretical and that there's no way it could possibly be like this in an actual relationship? [/quote]
No, I was responding to a specific thing that Spottlight brought up that I thought had to do with past comments by people other than you.
Also, not a criticism at all. I think it's much worse to believe that someone would kick out someone they loved for becoming BMI 25.5. In fact, I think that means it was never really love, it's not consistent in my mind with what I understand love to mean.
And you haven't said you've actually done this, so I am not criticizing you. I think we'd all be more comfortable if we could talk about this in the hypothetical and not make it about what someone supposedly did do or would do.
I don't see how you can say that you want me to believe you really would do that and want that to be the topic of conversation, but expressing my opinion about it is mean.(However, I'll note that I think the "I'd kick the fat partner to the curb, and what I mean is anyone overweight at all" thing was brought up intentionally to make a point about how awful and unacceptable it is, always, to gain weight, to slam overweight people as not being worthwhile acceptable partners at all. Many, not all of us, have been overweight, even though of course we ultimately lost it, or are in the process of doing so. Many of us also have overweight partners who we love. So that disagreeing and saying "that doesn't seem like what someone in a committed relationship would really do" is being called the mean position is rather ironic, IMO.)
Again, what I have said about my relationships with my partners has never been about you, and I sure didn't make it up just to irritate you.[/quote]
I didn't say you did. I think expecting no response or only a positive one is unreasonable.4 -
SpotLighttt wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Nope we can't force people to change but do we just abandon someone who is going through the worst thing ever
then why are we forced to accept?
No one is forcing you to do anything.1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Wow is that what you got out of that? What planet do you live on? You asked me what if they do not want to lose weight and you give them months and they don't lose weight but gain more weight...I shared with you a true story (never once in this whole thread did I state that a partner should keep his mouth shut - NEVER) My point is some people weight gain is a result of something else that manifest itself through extra weight. Deal with the root cause with the person YOU LOVE.
I asked you what then, and you told a story that had no resolution. Did the guy break up with her? Did she fix her issues? Did he just stop bringing it up? What actually happened?
Also, you can't fix someone else's "root cause" when they're lying to you about their own effort.
The point wasn't the resolution - I say that because there are many stories on here with a resolution and it didn't broaden your view...so I don't know why this time it would be different. The point I was making is that he paid all that money for PT's, gym memberships, and classes, when that wasn't the REAL issue. Once a person has a healthy mind, they can start being healthy in all other areas of their life.
But if you must know the resolution to the story. The husband found out he had an aggressive cancer and died within 3 months at the age of 33. Good thing he didn't dump her, because she took GOOD care of him in his final days, She was there for him when he couldn't walk a few steps away to use the bathroom, or bathe himself, or do something so simple as feed himself. She learned how to cook healthy foods for him because his diet had changed dramatically. She gave up the sweets and ate what he ate to support him b/c she knew that the new diet was adjustment for him. And although she lost her husband, she learned how to eat healthy and prepare her own meals and lost a great amount of weight.17 -
I've been with my partner 3 years and gained about 10kgs a year since we started dating
25kgs roughly. now I'm making the change to turn that around because we both love being outdoorsy active people and I can't keep up anymore. My partner always told me he never noticed my weight gain altho I love him for it I know on the inside he's lying. Now that I've lost 11kg he said to me the other day your guts looking smaller. Should always talk about your health goals together but wording is everything it is never ok to call your partner fat!! If you want your other half to lose or gain weight then support them! You can't expect them to succeed if you sit there and eat a big juicy burger or pizza whilst they have a salad with no dressing, make good choices and do it together!! That's what has helped me most on my journey my calorie intake is about 1200 and my partner needs about 3000 but we still eat the same stuff just different portion sizes. And he saves his junk days for when I'm not around 
4 -
Personally, I think that your spouse is the only one (besides your Dr) who with dignity and honest concern for your well being has the right to say anything about Thier spouses/s/o weight. I mean really, who knows you best? Who is more invested in your survivability , so you both can continue to thrive as a couple9
-
lemurcat12 wrote: »No, I was responding to a specific thing that Spottlight brought up that I thought had to do with past comments by people other than you.
Also, not a criticism at all. I think it's much worse to believe that someone would kick out someone they loved for becoming BMI 25.5. In fact, I think that means it was never really love, it's not consistent in my mind with what I understand love to mean.
And you haven't said you've actually done this, so I am not criticizing you. I think we'd all be more comfortable if we could talk about this in the hypothetical and not make it about what someone supposedly did do or would do.
I don't see how you can say that you want me to believe you really would do that and want that to be the topic of conversation, but expressing my opinion about it is mean.
Either you attack because this is all hypothetical and you claim that I don't really mean it because it hasn't happened, or I tell you that in fact it has and you attack because I'm mean and you're more comfortable talking in the hypothetical.
You want to ask me if I've stopped beating my wife next?3 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Wow is that what you got out of that? What planet do you live on? You asked me what if they do not want to lose weight and you give them months and they don't lose weight but gain more weight...I shared with you a true story (never once in this whole thread did I state that a partner should keep his mouth shut - NEVER) My point is some people weight gain is a result of something else that manifest itself through extra weight. Deal with the root cause with the person YOU LOVE.
I asked you what then, and you told a story that had no resolution. Did the guy break up with her? Did she fix her issues? Did he just stop bringing it up? What actually happened?
Also, you can't fix someone else's "root cause" when they're lying to you about their own effort.
The point wasn't the resolution - I say that because there are many stories on here with a resolution and it didn't broaden your view...so I don't know why this time it would be different. The point I was making is that he paid all that money for PT's, gym memberships, and classes, when that wasn't the REAL issue. Once a person has a healthy mind, they can start being healthy in all other areas of their life.
But if you must know the resolution to the story. The husband found out he had an aggressive cancer and died within 3 months at the age of 33. Good thing he didn't dump her, because she took GOOD care of him in his final days, She was there for him when he couldn't walk a few steps away to use the bathroom, or bathe himself, or do something so simple as feed himself. She learned how to cook healthy foods for him because his diet had changed dramatically. She gave up the sweets and ate what he ate to support him b/c she knew that the new diet was adjustment for him. And although she lost her husband, she learned how to eat healthy and prepare her own meals and lost a great amount of weight.
Wow. I've been reading the rest of this with horrified interest, but this made me teary.8 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Wow is that what you got out of that? What planet do you live on? You asked me what if they do not want to lose weight and you give them months and they don't lose weight but gain more weight...I shared with you a true story (never once in this whole thread did I state that a partner should keep his mouth shut - NEVER) My point is some people weight gain is a result of something else that manifest itself through extra weight. Deal with the root cause with the person YOU LOVE.
I asked you what then, and you told a story that had no resolution. Did the guy break up with her? Did she fix her issues? Did he just stop bringing it up? What actually happened?
Also, you can't fix someone else's "root cause" when they're lying to you about their own effort.
The point wasn't the resolution - I say that because there are many stories on here with a resolution and it didn't broaden your view...so I don't know why this time it would be different. The point I was making is that he paid all that money for PT's, gym memberships, and classes, when that wasn't the REAL issue. Once a person has a healthy mind, they can start being healthy in all other areas of their life.
And what I'm saying is there's a limit to how long I'm willing to wait for someone to actually work on their issues. That limit is not measured in years for me.But if you must know the resolution to the story. The husband found out he had an aggressive cancer and died within 3 months at the age of 33. Good thing he didn't dump her, because she took GOOD care of him in his final days, She was there for him when he couldn't walk a few steps away to use the bathroom, or bathe himself, or do something so simple as feed himself. She learned how to cook healthy foods for him because his diet had changed dramatically. She gave up the sweets and ate what he ate to support him b/c she knew that the new diet was adjustment for him. And although she lost her husband, she learned how to eat healthy and prepare her own meals and lost a great amount of weight.
Well, it sucks that he got cancer, and at least they both did what worked for them. It's rough when young people die. I'm not going to extrapolate anything else from that.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Wow is that what you got out of that? What planet do you live on? You asked me what if they do not want to lose weight and you give them months and they don't lose weight but gain more weight...I shared with you a true story (never once in this whole thread did I state that a partner should keep his mouth shut - NEVER) My point is some people weight gain is a result of something else that manifest itself through extra weight. Deal with the root cause with the person YOU LOVE.
I asked you what then, and you told a story that had no resolution. Did the guy break up with her? Did she fix her issues? Did he just stop bringing it up? What actually happened?
Also, you can't fix someone else's "root cause" when they're lying to you about their own effort.
The point wasn't the resolution - I say that because there are many stories on here with a resolution and it didn't broaden your view...so I don't know why this time it would be different. The point I was making is that he paid all that money for PT's, gym memberships, and classes, when that wasn't the REAL issue. Once a person has a healthy mind, they can start being healthy in all other areas of their life.
And what I'm saying is there's a limit to how long I'm willing to wait for someone to actually work on their issues. That limit is not measured in years for me.But if you must know the resolution to the story. The husband found out he had an aggressive cancer and died within 3 months at the age of 33. Good thing he didn't dump her, because she took GOOD care of him in his final days, She was there for him when he couldn't walk a few steps away to use the bathroom, or bathe himself, or do something so simple as feed himself. She learned how to cook healthy foods for him because his diet had changed dramatically. She gave up the sweets and ate what he ate to support him b/c she knew that the new diet was adjustment for him. And although she lost her husband, she learned how to eat healthy and prepare her own meals and lost a great amount of weight.
Well, it sucks that he got cancer, and at least they both did what worked for them. It's rough when young people die. I'm not going to extrapolate anything else from that.
How decent of you.8 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »But if you must know the resolution to the story. The husband found out he had an aggressive cancer and died within 3 months at the age of 33. Good thing he didn't dump her, because she took GOOD care of him in his final days, She was there for him when he couldn't walk a few steps away to use the bathroom, or bathe himself, or do something so simple as feed himself. She learned how to cook healthy foods for him because his diet had changed dramatically. She gave up the sweets and ate what he ate to support him b/c she knew that the new diet was adjustment for him. And although she lost her husband, she learned how to eat healthy and prepare her own meals and lost a great amount of weight.
One of the most heartbreaking wake-up calls I have read...
5 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Wow is that what you got out of that? What planet do you live on? You asked me what if they do not want to lose weight and you give them months and they don't lose weight but gain more weight...I shared with you a true story (never once in this whole thread did I state that a partner should keep his mouth shut - NEVER) My point is some people weight gain is a result of something else that manifest itself through extra weight. Deal with the root cause with the person YOU LOVE.
I asked you what then, and you told a story that had no resolution. Did the guy break up with her? Did she fix her issues? Did he just stop bringing it up? What actually happened?
Also, you can't fix someone else's "root cause" when they're lying to you about their own effort.
The point wasn't the resolution - I say that because there are many stories on here with a resolution and it didn't broaden your view...so I don't know why this time it would be different. The point I was making is that he paid all that money for PT's, gym memberships, and classes, when that wasn't the REAL issue. Once a person has a healthy mind, they can start being healthy in all other areas of their life.
And what I'm saying is there's a limit to how long I'm willing to wait for someone to actually work on their issues. That limit is not measured in years for me.But if you must know the resolution to the story. The husband found out he had an aggressive cancer and died within 3 months at the age of 33. Good thing he didn't dump her, because she took GOOD care of him in his final days, She was there for him when he couldn't walk a few steps away to use the bathroom, or bathe himself, or do something so simple as feed himself. She learned how to cook healthy foods for him because his diet had changed dramatically. She gave up the sweets and ate what he ate to support him b/c she knew that the new diet was adjustment for him. And although she lost her husband, she learned how to eat healthy and prepare her own meals and lost a great amount of weight.
Well, it sucks that he got cancer, and at least they both did what worked for them. It's rough when young people die. I'm not going to extrapolate anything else from that.
How decent of you.
That wasn't necessary.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Wow is that what you got out of that? What planet do you live on? You asked me what if they do not want to lose weight and you give them months and they don't lose weight but gain more weight...I shared with you a true story (never once in this whole thread did I state that a partner should keep his mouth shut - NEVER) My point is some people weight gain is a result of something else that manifest itself through extra weight. Deal with the root cause with the person YOU LOVE.
I asked you what then, and you told a story that had no resolution. Did the guy break up with her? Did she fix her issues? Did he just stop bringing it up? What actually happened?
Also, you can't fix someone else's "root cause" when they're lying to you about their own effort.
The point wasn't the resolution - I say that because there are many stories on here with a resolution and it didn't broaden your view...so I don't know why this time it would be different. The point I was making is that he paid all that money for PT's, gym memberships, and classes, when that wasn't the REAL issue. Once a person has a healthy mind, they can start being healthy in all other areas of their life.
And what I'm saying is there's a limit to how long I'm willing to wait for someone to actually work on their issues. That limit is not measured in years for me.But if you must know the resolution to the story. The husband found out he had an aggressive cancer and died within 3 months at the age of 33. Good thing he didn't dump her, because she took GOOD care of him in his final days, She was there for him when he couldn't walk a few steps away to use the bathroom, or bathe himself, or do something so simple as feed himself. She learned how to cook healthy foods for him because his diet had changed dramatically. She gave up the sweets and ate what he ate to support him b/c she knew that the new diet was adjustment for him. And although she lost her husband, she learned how to eat healthy and prepare her own meals and lost a great amount of weight.
Well, it sucks that he got cancer, and at least they both did what worked for them. It's rough when young people die. I'm not going to extrapolate anything else from that.
How decent of you.
That wasn't necessary.
Ok.4 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »Nope we can't force people to change but do we just abandon someone who is going through the worst thing ever
I believe in supporting people through tough times, but I also believe that people going through tough times should either actively try to get better or at least not reject attempts by others to assist them in getting better. Why must I spend my life having my soul sucked dry by someone who refuses to be helped? At some point, it's not my problem anymore. I won't let myself get dragged down into a toxic relationship like that. I refuse to be an enabler. Therefore, I didn't choose a partner who indulges in self-destructive behaviors. Sometimes...tough love is in order.
Now there are others who would love the drama, and seek out a relationship where they can take on the role of protector, as they coddle their partner and enable their self-destructive behaviors. That's not my personality. Again, I am a big fan of supporting someone who is making effort - even if they struggle and occasionally stumble along the way. But it's not healthy for me, personally, to be a co-dependent to someone who refuses to take care of themselves. That's demoralizing as hell. To each his/her own. 5 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »No, I was responding to a specific thing that Spottlight brought up that I thought had to do with past comments by people other than you.
Also, not a criticism at all. I think it's much worse to believe that someone would kick out someone they loved for becoming BMI 25.5. In fact, I think that means it was never really love, it's not consistent in my mind with what I understand love to mean.
And you haven't said you've actually done this, so I am not criticizing you. I think we'd all be more comfortable if we could talk about this in the hypothetical and not make it about what someone supposedly did do or would do.
I don't see how you can say that you want me to believe you really would do that and want that to be the topic of conversation, but expressing my opinion about it is mean.
Either you attack because this is all hypothetical and you claim that I don't really mean it because it hasn't happened, or I tell you that in fact it has and you attack because I'm mean and you're more comfortable talking in the hypothetical.
You want to ask me if I've stopped beating my wife next?
You are the one who has created this unfair bind where we cannot comment.
First, I have not attacked, that's ridiculous. You expressed an opinon (complete with some rather inflammatory assumptions about anyone who gained weight), and I expressed an opinion on a particular action. But because you said you'd take that action (i.e., personalized it), expressing an opinion on it = attack and you therefore are trying to say that any disagreement with you is mean.
It's simply not realistic to expect people to think any action toward a partner is totally cool and not for anyone else to have an opinion about. For example, if someone gambled away all the family's money, after promising the partner he would not, I'd think he was acting badly. If someone dumped his wife of 30 years because he's not attracted to older women I'd think he was a jerk and superficial (if I really knew that was true, of course -- and let's assume she's thin). And if someone dumped a partner because he or she gained 15 lbs and became a 25.5 BMI and didn't lose it for 2 months, despite an ultimatum, I'd have opinions on that too, including that that's not really consistent with my understanding of what love and commitment means (and that there's something wrong if attraction dies so easily).
In other words, it's totally fine for you to express a particular opinion/expected action, including that you'd find a partner who became a 25.5 BMI repulsive and that that is a good reason to end even a long term relationship, no question. It's your business and as long as you told the person up front I see no reason to complain. But it's also fine for me to say that I wouldn't and that I don't believe that ending a relationship based on that -- and nothing else, as stated -- is consistent with a real love or commitment.
I don't really care if you really really would do it or not. I said -- because I thought it was an effort to understand and see you in the most positive light -- that this is a hypothetical discussion, not colored by actual feelings toward an actual person, and in which you seemed to be imagining other reasons to be upset with the partner (not trying, becoming a different person, becoming completely sedentary) that I don't think are inherent in merely becoming a bit overweight. You are offended by this, because you claim you absolutely would do it.
Fine, whatever, it's not even the topic of the thread. I have my opinions about it (and my suspicions that maybe if we were talking about a real loved one you'd feel differently) and you have decided to think that's awful and disrespectful of me. Cool. Nothing more to be said by me. Feel free to say whatever more you want to say. But again you are the one who created the bind where your opinion cannot be disagreed with without it being met with a claim that you are being attacked.12 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »Nope we can't force people to change but do we just abandon someone who is going through the worst thing ever
I believe in supporting people through tough times, but I also believe that people going through tough times should either actively try to get better or at least not reject attempts by others to assist them in getting better. Why must I spend my life having my soul sucked dry by someone who refuses to be helped? At some point, it's not my problem anymore. I won't let myself get dragged down into a toxic relationship like that. I refuse to be an enabler. Therefore, I didn't choose a partner who indulges in self-destructive behaviors. Sometimes...tough love is in order.
Now there are others who would love the drama, and seek out a relationship where they can take on the role of protector, as they coddle their partner and enable their self-destructive behaviors. That's not my personality. Again, I am a big fan of supporting someone who is making effort - even if they struggle and occasionally stumble along the way. But it's not healthy for me, personally, to be a co-dependent to someone who refuses to take care of themselves. That's demoralizing as hell. To each his/her own.
Sorry, but you're not allowed to have thoughts/opinions in this thread. You either agree, or you're an *kitten*.3
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.5K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 430 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions