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Should your S.O./Spouse have a say so if they feel you are too thin or too large?
Replies
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Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »I have been married twice (18 years the first time and 20 the second time).
In addition to personality, intelligence, sense of humor and being honorable, it is important to me that my SO be healthy. In addition to bathing / grooming, being at an optimal weight is important to me for several reasons.
I am not attracted to men who are overweight. They smell.
I feel that I have the right to be physically safe in a relationship and I am not a large woman (I am 5'6"). A large overweight man on top of me is actually dangerous to my health and puts me at risk for injury due to shoulders and hips being dislocated and internal organs being crushed. If hubsters wants sexy time, then he better keep his weight in check. I have a battery operated boyfriend, and I am not afraid to use it.
Women don't speak up enough about this.
i know you are being serious but the way you expressed yourself made me laugh.
I like that people are speaking up in this thread and not feeling cowered due to a few judgmental and nasty women. It's unbelievable how rude some posters are because one persons choices are different.
Quite a few people assumed that I was a man because of my opinion and not being attracted to overweight or obese people. It seems like some are still hanging on to that, and at least a couple are trying to convince me that they're the exception to my misogynist standards.
As far as being cowered by a pile-on, that's about as likely to happen as me suddenly deciding that fat is sexy or gravity suddenly reversing itself.
Knowing that fat people are unattractive how come you let yourself get fat
perhaps she realized fat is unattractive AFTER going through it herself?
From some of her conversations above, I am sure she said something like that.
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SpotLighttt wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »I have been married twice (18 years the first time and 20 the second time).
In addition to personality, intelligence, sense of humor and being honorable, it is important to me that my SO be healthy. In addition to bathing / grooming, being at an optimal weight is important to me for several reasons.
I am not attracted to men who are overweight. They smell.
I feel that I have the right to be physically safe in a relationship and I am not a large woman (I am 5'6"). A large overweight man on top of me is actually dangerous to my health and puts me at risk for injury due to shoulders and hips being dislocated and internal organs being crushed. If hubsters wants sexy time, then he better keep his weight in check. I have a battery operated boyfriend, and I am not afraid to use it.
Women don't speak up enough about this.
i know you are being serious but the way you expressed yourself made me laugh.
I like that people are speaking up in this thread and not feeling cowered due to a few judgmental and nasty women. It's unbelievable how rude some posters are because one persons choices are different.
Quite a few people assumed that I was a man because of my opinion and not being attracted to overweight or obese people. It seems like some are still hanging on to that, and at least a couple are trying to convince me that they're the exception to my misogynist standards.
As far as being cowered by a pile-on, that's about as likely to happen as me suddenly deciding that fat is sexy or gravity suddenly reversing itself.
Knowing that fat people are unattractive how come you let yourself get fat
perhaps she realized fat is unattractive AFTER going through it herself?
From some of her conversations above, I am sure she said something like that.
Thanks for your update3 -
SpotLighttt wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »I have been married twice (18 years the first time and 20 the second time).
In addition to personality, intelligence, sense of humor and being honorable, it is important to me that my SO be healthy. In addition to bathing / grooming, being at an optimal weight is important to me for several reasons.
I am not attracted to men who are overweight. They smell.
I feel that I have the right to be physically safe in a relationship and I am not a large woman (I am 5'6"). A large overweight man on top of me is actually dangerous to my health and puts me at risk for injury due to shoulders and hips being dislocated and internal organs being crushed. If hubsters wants sexy time, then he better keep his weight in check. I have a battery operated boyfriend, and I am not afraid to use it.
Women don't speak up enough about this.
i know you are being serious but the way you expressed yourself made me laugh.
I like that people are speaking up in this thread and not feeling cowered due to a few judgmental and nasty women. It's unbelievable how rude some posters are because one persons choices are different.
Quite a few people assumed that I was a man because of my opinion and not being attracted to overweight or obese people. It seems like some are still hanging on to that, and at least a couple are trying to convince me that they're the exception to my misogynist standards.
As far as being cowered by a pile-on, that's about as likely to happen as me suddenly deciding that fat is sexy or gravity suddenly reversing itself.
Knowing that fat people are unattractive how come you let yourself get fat
perhaps she realized fat is unattractive AFTER going through it herself?
From some of her conversations above, I am sure she said something like that.
I mean I knew it was unattractive. I made terrible, lazy decisions about things for a while and got fat. I took a look at myself, was disgusted at what I saw, the negative performance impact it had on literally every activity I did and knowing that I had failed so hard at basic self-care, and resolved the problem with my lazy, stupid decisions and my weight.
I never expected a fit person to find me attractive regardless of my weight. Why should they? I wasn't compatible with them when I was packing extra pounds and couldn't keep up with a fit person doing activities. Nor did I even find myself attractive. I looked awful.4 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »I have been married twice (18 years the first time and 20 the second time).
In addition to personality, intelligence, sense of humor and being honorable, it is important to me that my SO be healthy. In addition to bathing / grooming, being at an optimal weight is important to me for several reasons.
I am not attracted to men who are overweight. They smell.
I feel that I have the right to be physically safe in a relationship and I am not a large woman (I am 5'6"). A large overweight man on top of me is actually dangerous to my health and puts me at risk for injury due to shoulders and hips being dislocated and internal organs being crushed. If hubsters wants sexy time, then he better keep his weight in check. I have a battery operated boyfriend, and I am not afraid to use it.
Women don't speak up enough about this.
i know you are being serious but the way you expressed yourself made me laugh.
I like that people are speaking up in this thread and not feeling cowered due to a few judgmental and nasty women. It's unbelievable how rude some posters are because one persons choices are different.
Quite a few people assumed that I was a man because of my opinion and not being attracted to overweight or obese people. It seems like some are still hanging on to that, and at least a couple are trying to convince me that they're the exception to my misogynist standards.
As far as being cowered by a pile-on, that's about as likely to happen as me suddenly deciding that fat is sexy or gravity suddenly reversing itself.
Knowing that fat people are unattractive how come you let yourself get fat
perhaps she realized fat is unattractive AFTER going through it herself?
From some of her conversations above, I am sure she said something like that.
Thanks for your update
No worries.
the pitching in with the occasional dig gets tiring to read. Its evident you are ignoring what she is writing and focusing on which sentence to find to directly put her down.
'bit lame.
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »I have been married twice (18 years the first time and 20 the second time).
In addition to personality, intelligence, sense of humor and being honorable, it is important to me that my SO be healthy. In addition to bathing / grooming, being at an optimal weight is important to me for several reasons.
I am not attracted to men who are overweight. They smell.
I feel that I have the right to be physically safe in a relationship and I am not a large woman (I am 5'6"). A large overweight man on top of me is actually dangerous to my health and puts me at risk for injury due to shoulders and hips being dislocated and internal organs being crushed. If hubsters wants sexy time, then he better keep his weight in check. I have a battery operated boyfriend, and I am not afraid to use it.
Women don't speak up enough about this.
i know you are being serious but the way you expressed yourself made me laugh.
I like that people are speaking up in this thread and not feeling cowered due to a few judgmental and nasty women. It's unbelievable how rude some posters are because one persons choices are different.
Quite a few people assumed that I was a man because of my opinion and not being attracted to overweight or obese people. It seems like some are still hanging on to that, and at least a couple are trying to convince me that they're the exception to my misogynist standards.
As far as being cowered by a pile-on, that's about as likely to happen as me suddenly deciding that fat is sexy or gravity suddenly reversing itself.
Knowing that fat people are unattractive how come you let yourself get fat
Stupid, lazy, bad decisions that were entirely my fault. There's no excuse. It was a personal failure.
Operative word is was. The problem has been corrected and will not recur.
I am really intrigued how your relationship went. You see for me I got big and my other half never said a word he even told me not too lose too much weight this is why I am fascinated by your posts.
P.s are you allowed fat friends4 -
SpotLighttt wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »I have been married twice (18 years the first time and 20 the second time).
In addition to personality, intelligence, sense of humor and being honorable, it is important to me that my SO be healthy. In addition to bathing / grooming, being at an optimal weight is important to me for several reasons.
I am not attracted to men who are overweight. They smell.
I feel that I have the right to be physically safe in a relationship and I am not a large woman (I am 5'6"). A large overweight man on top of me is actually dangerous to my health and puts me at risk for injury due to shoulders and hips being dislocated and internal organs being crushed. If hubsters wants sexy time, then he better keep his weight in check. I have a battery operated boyfriend, and I am not afraid to use it.
Women don't speak up enough about this.
i know you are being serious but the way you expressed yourself made me laugh.
I like that people are speaking up in this thread and not feeling cowered due to a few judgmental and nasty women. It's unbelievable how rude some posters are because one persons choices are different.
Quite a few people assumed that I was a man because of my opinion and not being attracted to overweight or obese people. It seems like some are still hanging on to that, and at least a couple are trying to convince me that they're the exception to my misogynist standards.
As far as being cowered by a pile-on, that's about as likely to happen as me suddenly deciding that fat is sexy or gravity suddenly reversing itself.
Knowing that fat people are unattractive how come you let yourself get fat
perhaps she realized fat is unattractive AFTER going through it herself?
From some of her conversations above, I am sure she said something like that.
Thanks for your update
No worries.
the pitching in with the occasional dig gets tiring to read. Its evident you are ignoring what she is writing and focusing on which sentence to find to directly put her down.
'bit lame.
Temporary ignoring user4 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »I have been married twice (18 years the first time and 20 the second time).
In addition to personality, intelligence, sense of humor and being honorable, it is important to me that my SO be healthy. In addition to bathing / grooming, being at an optimal weight is important to me for several reasons.
I am not attracted to men who are overweight. They smell.
I feel that I have the right to be physically safe in a relationship and I am not a large woman (I am 5'6"). A large overweight man on top of me is actually dangerous to my health and puts me at risk for injury due to shoulders and hips being dislocated and internal organs being crushed. If hubsters wants sexy time, then he better keep his weight in check. I have a battery operated boyfriend, and I am not afraid to use it.
Women don't speak up enough about this.
i know you are being serious but the way you expressed yourself made me laugh.
I like that people are speaking up in this thread and not feeling cowered due to a few judgmental and nasty women. It's unbelievable how rude some posters are because one persons choices are different.
Quite a few people assumed that I was a man because of my opinion and not being attracted to overweight or obese people. It seems like some are still hanging on to that, and at least a couple are trying to convince me that they're the exception to my misogynist standards.
As far as being cowered by a pile-on, that's about as likely to happen as me suddenly deciding that fat is sexy or gravity suddenly reversing itself.
Knowing that fat people are unattractive how come you let yourself get fat
Stupid, lazy, bad decisions that were entirely my fault. There's no excuse. It was a personal failure.
Operative word is was. The problem has been corrected and will not recur.
I am really intrigued how your relationship went. You see for me I got big and my other half never said a word he even told me not too lose too much weight this is why I am fascinated by your posts.
P.s are you allowed fat friends
P.s I am upsetting spotlight let me know if I offend you0 -
I find it very hard to understand what the "correct"answer some posters want. They do not want a person to tell their partner that they hate his/her body changes. They do not want this person to leave. They obviously do not want this person to cheat. So, this poor woman/guy who cannot be attracted to their partner, and they are not even allowed to speak about it, what are they supposed to do? Do not say "get over it". Assume that this is not possible, and the woman/man in the example cannot feel attracted to this new body. He/she can care for their partner, worry about their partner, feel guilty and sad about no longer being attracted, but cannot feel attracted. So, what next? If he/she is not even allowed to inform their partner about the problem and how bad it is for the relationship?2
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Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »I have been married twice (18 years the first time and 20 the second time).
In addition to personality, intelligence, sense of humor and being honorable, it is important to me that my SO be healthy. In addition to bathing / grooming, being at an optimal weight is important to me for several reasons.
I am not attracted to men who are overweight. They smell.
I feel that I have the right to be physically safe in a relationship and I am not a large woman (I am 5'6"). A large overweight man on top of me is actually dangerous to my health and puts me at risk for injury due to shoulders and hips being dislocated and internal organs being crushed. If hubsters wants sexy time, then he better keep his weight in check. I have a battery operated boyfriend, and I am not afraid to use it.
Women don't speak up enough about this.
i know you are being serious but the way you expressed yourself made me laugh.
I like that people are speaking up in this thread and not feeling cowered due to a few judgmental and nasty women. It's unbelievable how rude some posters are because one persons choices are different.
Quite a few people assumed that I was a man because of my opinion and not being attracted to overweight or obese people. It seems like some are still hanging on to that, and at least a couple are trying to convince me that they're the exception to my misogynist standards.
As far as being cowered by a pile-on, that's about as likely to happen as me suddenly deciding that fat is sexy or gravity suddenly reversing itself.
Knowing that fat people are unattractive how come you let yourself get fat
Stupid, lazy, bad decisions that were entirely my fault. There's no excuse. It was a personal failure.
Operative word is was. The problem has been corrected and will not recur.
I am really intrigued how your relationship went. You see for me I got big and my other half never said a word he even told me not too lose too much weight this is why I am fascinated by your posts.
P.s are you allowed fat friends
The long and short of it is that I was single at the time that this went on, and did not try to date.
I tend to make friends who are interested in the same type of activities as me, and who are at similar levels of capability. It tends to self select into people who are relatively fit.1 -
I find it very hard to understand what the "correct"answer some posters want. They do not want a person to tell their partner that they hate his/her body changes. They do not want this person to leave. They obviously do not want this person to cheat. So, this poor woman/guy who cannot be attracted to their partner, and they are not even allowed to speak about it, what are they supposed to do? Do not say "get over it". Assume that this is not possible, and the woman/man in the example cannot feel attracted to this new body. He/she can care for their partner, worry about their partner, feel guilty and sad about no longer being attracted, but cannot feel attracted. So, what next? If he/she is not even allowed to inform their partner about the problem and how bad it is for the relationship?
exactly, isnt this also coined as lack of communication? So whos fault is it?0 -
I find it very hard to understand what the "correct"answer some posters want. They do not want a person to tell their partner that they hate his/her body changes. They do not want this person to leave. They obviously do not want this person to cheat. So, this poor woman/guy who cannot be attracted to their partner, and they are not even allowed to speak about it, what are they supposed to do? Do not say "get over it". Assume that this is not possible, and the woman/man in the example cannot feel attracted to this new body. He/she can care for their partner, worry about their partner, feel guilty and sad about no longer being attracted, but cannot feel attracted. So, what next? If he/she is not even allowed to inform their partner about the problem and how bad it is for the relationship?
There is never going to be a right answer2 -
I find it very hard to understand what the "correct"answer some posters want. They do not want a person to tell their partner that they hate his/her body changes. They do not want this person to leave. They obviously do not want this person to cheat. So, this poor woman/guy who cannot be attracted to their partner, and they are not even allowed to speak about it, what are they supposed to do? Do not say "get over it". Assume that this is not possible, and the woman/man in the example cannot feel attracted to this new body. He/she can care for their partner, worry about their partner, feel guilty and sad about no longer being attracted, but cannot feel attracted. So, what next? If he/she is not even allowed to inform their partner about the problem and how bad it is for the relationship?
Apparently the answer is shut up, close your eyes, and think of England while being physically affectionate/sexual anyway.
I'd rather leave and be thought an arsehole than suffer in silence.2 -
I find it very hard to understand what the "correct"answer some posters want. They do not want a person to tell their partner that they hate his/her body changes. They do not want this person to leave. They obviously do not want this person to cheat. So, this poor woman/guy who cannot be attracted to their partner, and they are not even allowed to speak about it, what are they supposed to do? Do not say "get over it". Assume that this is not possible, and the woman/man in the example cannot feel attracted to this new body. He/she can care for their partner, worry about their partner, feel guilty and sad about no longer being attracted, but cannot feel attracted. So, what next? If he/she is not even allowed to inform their partner about the problem and how bad it is for the relationship?
Nobody is looking for any kind of answer. We all have to do what we think is right for us/our relationship. I think there is still a degree of trying to understand the other perspective by some posters in this thread at this point, but it's rapidly degrading at this point.
Several posters up-thread shared their personal experiences of weight gain/loss within their relationships and various other related issues to illustrate that weight gain for them isn't a deal-breaker, nor is it always a permanent state. For others it is a deal-breaker, and that doesn't necessarily make them bad people. Different strokes.4 -
The answer to bad moral character? I think everyone knows that's much, much harder than weight loss. A fat person (defined here as a person who is at 1 lb over the arbitrary WHO guide of BMI=25) can lose weight.They can bring joy to the lives of others. They can participate in athletic activities, be upstanding members of their communities, be generous and kind,and fun, and small good, and yes, have sex with ordinary humans without crushing them or breaking bones. And they can, as I said, lose the weight.
A narrow, shallow, judgmental person changing is the stuff of fairy tales.
I personally think anyone married to such a person is better off without the dead weight of that spouse.26 -
The answer to bad moral character? I think everyone knows that's much, much harder than weight loss. A fat person (defined here as a person who is at 1 lb over the arbitrary WHO guide of BMI=25) can lose weight.They can bring joy to the lives of others. They can participate in athletic activities, be upstanding members of their communities, be generous and kind,and fun, and small good, and yes, have sex with ordinary humans without crushing them or breaking bones. And they can, as I said, lose the weight.
A narrow, shallow, judgmental person changing is the stuff of fairy tales.
I personally think anyone married to such a person is better off without the dead weight of that spouse.
So, physical attraction is a matter of morals?
I love it how everyone is supposedly for communication and honesty in marriages, as long as there is actually no real communication and honesty happening...4 -
I have been married twice (18 years the first time and 20 the second time).
In addition to personality, intelligence, sense of humor and being honorable, it is important to me that my SO be healthy. In addition to bathing / grooming, being at an optimal weight is important to me for several reasons.
I am not attracted to men who are overweight. They smell.
I feel that I have the right to be physically safe in a relationship and I am not a large woman (I am 5'6"). A large overweight man on top of me is actually dangerous to my health and puts me at risk for injury due to shoulders and hips being dislocated and internal organs being crushed. If hubsters wants sexy time, then he better keep his weight in check. I have a battery operated boyfriend, and I am not afraid to use it.
Women don't speak up enough about this.
Like the other posters here, you are more than right to have your own standards of attraction and I'm not arguing that, but your basis for some of it seems out of left field.
At 5'6", I would consider you a fairly large woman. I am 5', and 104lbs. At one time I was 95lbs and my husband 350lbs. In no way were my internal organs ever crushed or any joint dislocated. The possibility never even crossed my mind. You do know as well, that the man does not have to be on top right?
As for overweight people smelling.....what an over generalization. The only overweight people I've ever been around that smelled where those that had a medical condition.17 -
I find it very hard to understand what the "correct"answer some posters want. They do not want a person to tell their partner that they hate his/her body changes. They do not want this person to leave. They obviously do not want this person to cheat. So, this poor woman/guy who cannot be attracted to their partner, and they are not even allowed to speak about it, what are they supposed to do? Do not say "get over it". Assume that this is not possible, and the woman/man in the example cannot feel attracted to this new body. He/she can care for their partner, worry about their partner, feel guilty and sad about no longer being attracted, but cannot feel attracted. So, what next? If he/she is not even allowed to inform their partner about the problem and how bad it is for the relationship?
Nobody is looking for any kind of answer. We all have to do what we think is right for us/our relationship. I think there is still a degree of trying to understand the other perspective by some posters in this thread at this point, but it's rapidly degrading at this point.
Several posters up-thread shared their personal experiences of weight gain/loss within their relationships and various other related issues to illustrate that weight gain for them isn't a deal-breaker, nor is it always a permanent state. For others it is a deal-breaker, and that doesn't necessarily make them bad people. Different strokes.
Except that now someone has said that not being physically attracted to overweight and obese people is literally bad moral character.The answer to bad moral character? I think everyone knows that's much, much harder than weight loss. A fat person (defined here as a person who is at 1 lb over the arbitrary WHO guide of BMI=25) can lose weight.They can bring joy to the lives of others. They can participate in athletic activities, be upstanding members of their communities, be generous and kind,and fun, and small good, and yes, have sex with ordinary humans without crushing them or breaking bones. And they can, as I said, lose the weight.
A narrow, shallow, judgmental person changing is the stuff of fairy tales.
I personally think anyone married to such a person is better off without the dead weight of that spouse.
Best of luck to them in finding someone they're compatible with, but they won't be in a relationship or having sex with me if they choose to be overweight, regardless of what you think that says about my moral character.
I don't owe anyone sex or a relationship. Ever.The answer to bad moral character? I think everyone knows that's much, much harder than weight loss. A fat person (defined here as a person who is at 1 lb over the arbitrary WHO guide of BMI=25) can lose weight.They can bring joy to the lives of others. They can participate in athletic activities, be upstanding members of their communities, be generous and kind,and fun, and small good, and yes, have sex with ordinary humans without crushing them or breaking bones. And they can, as I said, lose the weight.
A narrow, shallow, judgmental person changing is the stuff of fairy tales.
I personally think anyone married to such a person is better off without the dead weight of that spouse.
So, physical attraction is a matter of morals?
I love it how everyone is supposedly for communication and honesty in marriages, as long as there is actually no real communication and honesty happening...
As long as the communication is exactly what they want to hear, they're all for it.mom23mangos wrote: »I have been married twice (18 years the first time and 20 the second time).
In addition to personality, intelligence, sense of humor and being honorable, it is important to me that my SO be healthy. In addition to bathing / grooming, being at an optimal weight is important to me for several reasons.
I am not attracted to men who are overweight. They smell.
I feel that I have the right to be physically safe in a relationship and I am not a large woman (I am 5'6"). A large overweight man on top of me is actually dangerous to my health and puts me at risk for injury due to shoulders and hips being dislocated and internal organs being crushed. If hubsters wants sexy time, then he better keep his weight in check. I have a battery operated boyfriend, and I am not afraid to use it.
Women don't speak up enough about this. Like the other posters here, you are more than right to have your own standards of attraction and I'm not arguing that, but your basis for some of it seems out of left field.
At 5'6", I would consider you a fairly large woman. I am 5', and 104lbs. At one time I was 95lbs and my husband 350lbs. In no way were my internal organs ever crushed or any joint dislocated. The possibility never even crossed my mind. You do know as well, that the man does not have to be on top right?
As for overweight people smelling.....what an over generalization. The only overweight people I've ever been around that smelled where those that had a medical condition.
Hygiene can be an issue for overweight and obese people. Bacteria in skin folds coupled with sweat results in body odor, and being overweight or obese means more sweating from normal daily activity. Lots of people who have a ripe aroma are not actually aware that they smell because their olfactory sense has filtered it out.3 -
Realizing that the posters here are all inherently biased as we have all been more out of shape than we would like, realized this problem, and did something about it. This heavily skews the conversation as the participants are people that take responsibility for their actions. How do you impart this mindset and behavior to people you care about?
To the larger point @heiliskrimsli is making - relationships take effort. It is easy to coast through when things naturally fall in place and both parties are aligned, but any long term relationship will hit rocky points and stressors. When one person stops putting in effort we make a judgment on how much we are going to tolerate before ending this. Are people taking this view personally because we have all been on the wrong side of this at one point? Another point is that most of the posters here are in relationships with good people that stood by us - this is not always the case.
One of the most difficult points for me was realizing that I was in fact, not honoring my wife when I allowed myself to get so out of shape. I had stopped putting in the needed effort. Getting back into shape and conducting a detailed self analysis identified several root causes that I was ignoring - many willfully. The critical point is implementing changes and building habits to maintain and develop these positive habits.
8 -
So... Hmmm... If your SO is not making the effort to try and be in shape and or generally just be healthy then she is lacking respect for herself or himself. I know when I am heavy I feel like I am being way too lazy and therefore feel guilty. I am heavy now and making a concerted effort to get where I should be.
I in fact would love my SO to tell me when I am losing my path, it would make me jump to attention.4 -
P.s to all if you don't wash everyday regardless of size you will smell. Just wanted to point that out.4
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Realizing that the posters here are all inherently biased as we have all been more out of shape than we would like, realized this problem, and did something about it. This heavily skews the conversation as the participants are people that take responsibility for their actions. How do you impart this mindset and behavior to people you care about?
To the larger point @heiliskrimsli is making - relationships take effort. It is easy to coast through when things naturally fall in place and both parties are aligned, but any long term relationship will hit rocky points and stressors. When one person stops putting in effort we make a judgment on how much we are going to tolerate before ending this. Are people taking this view personally because we have all been on the wrong side of this at one point? Another point is that most of the posters here are in relationships with good people that stood by us - this is not always the case.
One of the most difficult points for me was realizing that I was in fact, not honoring my wife when I allowed myself to get so out of shape. I had stopped putting in the needed effort. Getting back into shape and conducting a detailed self analysis identified several root causes that I was ignoring - many willfully. The critical point is implementing changes and building habits to maintain and develop these positive habits.
I appreciate what you're trying to say here, but I think the point some of us are trying to make is exactly this! That sometimes relationships take work, and walking away because a spouse hit 25.1 bmi and wasn't in the right place mentally or physically to change that just yet isn't an option for them. We've covered the full gambit in 19 pages here - pregnancy, mental health, physical disabilities, aging.
I feel blessed beyond measure to have a spouse who has stood beside me no matter what for 17 years and counting. Even moreso now.11 -
The answer to bad moral character? I think everyone knows that's much, much harder than weight loss. A fat person (defined here as a person who is at 1 lb over the arbitrary WHO guide of BMI=25) can lose weight.They can bring joy to the lives of others. They can participate in athletic activities, be upstanding members of their communities, be generous and kind,and fun, and small good, and yes, have sex with ordinary humans without crushing them or breaking bones. And they can, as I said, lose the weight.
A narrow, shallow, judgmental person changing is the stuff of fairy tales.
I personally think anyone married to such a person is better off without the dead weight of that spouse.
So, physical attraction is a matter of morals?
I love it how everyone is supposedly for communication and honesty in marriages, as long as there is actually no real communication and honesty happening...
It's not about physical attraction after a certain point. After all, we're all going to age, and wrinkled bits and sagging boobs and whatnot aren't all that.
An established long-standing relationship becomes about more than physical attraction after a while. It stops mattering. You are making love to the person who has shared life's ups and downs with you and sex is about expressing everything you feel for each other.
This has been the thrust of all the push back in this discussion. The idea of being turned on because they look hot just then and then going and having sex in a long-standing relationship is just not how it happens. I can remember that happening with my husband, way back in the early days, looking at him here and there and getting turned on, but that's just not how it works now.
3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »The answer to bad moral character? I think everyone knows that's much, much harder than weight loss. A fat person (defined here as a person who is at 1 lb over the arbitrary WHO guide of BMI=25) can lose weight.They can bring joy to the lives of others. They can participate in athletic activities, be upstanding members of their communities, be generous and kind,and fun, and small good, and yes, have sex with ordinary humans without crushing them or breaking bones. And they can, as I said, lose the weight.
A narrow, shallow, judgmental person changing is the stuff of fairy tales.
I personally think anyone married to such a person is better off without the dead weight of that spouse.
So, physical attraction is a matter of morals?
I love it how everyone is supposedly for communication and honesty in marriages, as long as there is actually no real communication and honesty happening...
It's not about physical attraction after a certain point. After all, we're all going to age, and wrinkled bits and sagging boobs and whatnot aren't all that.
An established long-standing relationship becomes about more than physical attraction after a while. It stops mattering. You are making love to the person who has shared life's ups and downs with you and sex is about expressing everything you feel for each other.
This has been the thrust of all the push back in this discussion. The idea of being turned on because they look hot just then and then going and having sex in a long-standing relationship is just not how it happens. I can remember that happening with my husband, way back in the early days, looking at him here and there and getting turned on, but that's just not how it works now.
Sorry, but this is a very sad way of thinking, for me. I am no longer that young. And yet, I do not consider myself unattractive. I do not want my husband to think of me as someone with whom he is sharing intimacy because of the past and companionship. I make an effort to look good. I look good for my age, I am not planning on dating someone 20 years younger. It is not only about physical appearance, but this matters too. I think it is sad to feel your partner no longer looks good and just make love because he/she once was attractive to you. No matter if they are 20 or 70.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »The answer to bad moral character? I think everyone knows that's much, much harder than weight loss. A fat person (defined here as a person who is at 1 lb over the arbitrary WHO guide of BMI=25) can lose weight.They can bring joy to the lives of others. They can participate in athletic activities, be upstanding members of their communities, be generous and kind,and fun, and small good, and yes, have sex with ordinary humans without crushing them or breaking bones. And they can, as I said, lose the weight.
A narrow, shallow, judgmental person changing is the stuff of fairy tales.
I personally think anyone married to such a person is better off without the dead weight of that spouse.
So, physical attraction is a matter of morals?
I love it how everyone is supposedly for communication and honesty in marriages, as long as there is actually no real communication and honesty happening...
It's not about physical attraction after a certain point. After all, we're all going to age, and wrinkled bits and sagging boobs and whatnot aren't all that.
An established long-standing relationship becomes about more than physical attraction after a while. It stops mattering. You are making love to the person who has shared life's ups and downs with you and sex is about expressing everything you feel for each other.
This has been the thrust of all the push back in this discussion. The idea of being turned on because they look hot just then and then going and having sex in a long-standing relationship is just not how it happens. I can remember that happening with my husband, way back in the early days, looking at him here and there and getting turned on, but that's just not how it works now.
not true. I understand exactly where you are coming from but it doesn't disappear for us all. This is why you will find a lot of long term couples who still workout, who still look well groomed, who still dress well and conduct themselves in a desirable manner. Some of these attributes are what individuals generally find attractive. Not everyone gives up because the ups and downs of life have worn them down. Some people are stronger, this is where varying personalities come in because some people manage lifes stresses differently to others. Some people are young at heart, they want to remain desirable, they have a high sex drive and they are youthful.
Your way is not the only way even though I appreciate it gets the majority count.
An established long term relationship is about everything you mention AND physical attraction for some.
there really is no right or wrong answer here
Also what is an established long standing relationship? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years? If a couple met when they were 15 and are together for 30 years then at 45 they still have a reasonable sex drive and it wont be abnormal to have physical/sexual interests as opposed to a couple in their 80's who's priorities are now shifted.
Perspective is key here.3 -
Realizing that the posters here are all inherently biased as we have all been more out of shape than we would like, realized this problem, and did something about it. This heavily skews the conversation as the participants are people that take responsibility for their actions. How do you impart this mindset and behavior to people you care about?
To the larger point @heiliskrimsli is making - relationships take effort. It is easy to coast through when things naturally fall in place and both parties are aligned, but any long term relationship will hit rocky points and stressors. When one person stops putting in effort we make a judgment on how much we are going to tolerate before ending this. Are people taking this view personally because we have all been on the wrong side of this at one point? Another point is that most of the posters here are in relationships with good people that stood by us - this is not always the case.
One of the most difficult points for me was realizing that I was in fact, not honoring my wife when I allowed myself to get so out of shape. I had stopped putting in the needed effort. Getting back into shape and conducting a detailed self analysis identified several root causes that I was ignoring - many willfully. The critical point is implementing changes and building habits to maintain and develop these positive habits.
I appreciate what you're trying to say here, but I think the point some of us are trying to make is exactly this! That sometimes relationships take work, and walking away because a spouse hit 25.1 bmi and wasn't in the right place mentally or physically to change that just yet isn't an option for them. We've covered the full gambit in 19 pages here - pregnancy, mental health, physical disabilities, aging.
I feel blessed beyond measure to have a spouse who has stood beside me no matter what for 17 years and counting. Even moreso now.
I think this is an issue of talking past one another and taking things literally when they were intended as figuratively. There simply isn't enough time to address every "What if?" in these threads.
Kudos to you both! We've just passed 11 years, but putting in the work to make this last to the vows.1 -
Realizing that the posters here are all inherently biased as we have all been more out of shape than we would like, realized this problem, and did something about it. This heavily skews the conversation as the participants are people that take responsibility for their actions. How do you impart this mindset and behavior to people you care about?
To the larger point @heiliskrimsli is making - relationships take effort. It is easy to coast through when things naturally fall in place and both parties are aligned, but any long term relationship will hit rocky points and stressors. When one person stops putting in effort we make a judgment on how much we are going to tolerate before ending this. Are people taking this view personally because we have all been on the wrong side of this at one point? Another point is that most of the posters here are in relationships with good people that stood by us - this is not always the case.
One of the most difficult points for me was realizing that I was in fact, not honoring my wife when I allowed myself to get so out of shape. I had stopped putting in the needed effort. Getting back into shape and conducting a detailed self analysis identified several root causes that I was ignoring - many willfully. The critical point is implementing changes and building habits to maintain and develop these positive habits.
I appreciate what you're trying to say here, but I think the point some of us are trying to make is exactly this! That sometimes relationships take work, and walking away because a spouse hit 25.1 bmi and wasn't in the right place mentally or physically to change that just yet isn't an option for them. We've covered the full gambit in 19 pages here - pregnancy, mental health, physical disabilities, aging.
I feel blessed beyond measure to have a spouse who has stood beside me no matter what for 17 years and counting. Even moreso now.
I think this is an issue of talking past one another and taking things literally when they were intended as figuratively. There simply isn't enough time to address every "What if?" in these threads.
Kudos to you both! We've just passed 11 years, but putting in the work to make this last to the vows.
Truth. And once one side or the other (or both) gets on the defensive, it's difficult to overcome.
Thanks! Honestly, it feels like no time. We just celebrated a kiddo's 16th birthday and I still have NO IDEA how that can even be possible.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I am a reasonably fit person of normal weight. I expect the same of a partner.
This gets to the heart of it. Many here are pretending that those of us who would not be in a relationship with an obese person would dump our SO without warning if their weight hits a certain number. That's not the case (and I can't imagine what kind of relationships they're in that would make them come to that conclusion).
I'm a relatively active, fit person. Unless my SO is handicapped in some way, I expect her to be as well - this is something we've shared since the beginning, and that's valuable to me. I haven't pretended otherwise.
One doesn't go from fit to obese overnight. If she chooses obesity, there will be a long transitional period where we'll communicate about our thoughts, desires, and expectations, just as we have throughout the rest of our relationship.
We don't have kids, so if we choose to go our separate ways, that's fine. That's what adults who grow apart should do.
People here have also made some hay over my weight and whether I'm actually a reasonably fit person because at one point I was overweight.
I ran a 13 mile training run yesterday. That is not something an unfit person does.
I didn't say you were unfit. That wasn't the point at all. I'd be interested in you responding to the actual point.
I ran a marathon at 145, which is overweight at my height. Could have have run it faster if thinner? I am sure, but I ran it around 4:30, which is respectable enough for a first timer who didn't train that consistently, which was me at the time.
Being overweight does not mean that you can't do physical activities. Does being a certain amount overweight mean that? Sure, of course. But your drawing the line at 25 and then saying it's because the person would have stopped being who you fell in love with or changed so much or no longer can share interests doesn't make sense, and that's part of why I pointed out that you were talking about a weight you were not so long ago.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »
I ran a 13 mile training run yesterday. That is not something an unfit person does.
Actually, this is an awful metric, and I think that's the point some people are trying to make. You don't have to be a normal BMI to be active. I've never been a normal BMI. I've run 3 marathons and many half marathons. I put on 50 pounds when my husband died (on my still-overweight frame) and still did a half marathon. A friend has always been about the same size as me and has done ultra-marathons.
I kayak. I hike and camp.
Were many of these things more comfortable at a lower weight? Absolutely.
Are they only doable at a normal-BMI weight? Absolutely NOT.
Yeah, all this, and you remind me that I did a half marathons when I was only a few months into losing and was still obese. I definitely find it easier when I am not (wanting to be faster is part of why I want to lose more weight even though I am a healthy weight), but the idea that someone can't go biking and hiking or kayaking or the rest is not true.
And someone can stop being interested in those things without gaining weight, of course.1 -
Surprised this is still going!
Even for a debate forum there has been little bits of nastiness, those that haven't seen it, lucky ducks! Or maybe they are less sensitive? Some of the comments have been hard to read but it's all been interesting in some form.
Many are taking this quite personally and I hope any hostilities are winding now.
Thanks to the OP for a very 'lively' topic to read and weigh in on.
3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I am a reasonably fit person of normal weight. I expect the same of a partner.
This gets to the heart of it. Many here are pretending that those of us who would not be in a relationship with an obese person would dump our SO without warning if their weight hits a certain number. That's not the case (and I can't imagine what kind of relationships they're in that would make them come to that conclusion).
I'm a relatively active, fit person. Unless my SO is handicapped in some way, I expect her to be as well - this is something we've shared since the beginning, and that's valuable to me. I haven't pretended otherwise.
One doesn't go from fit to obese overnight. If she chooses obesity, there will be a long transitional period where we'll communicate about our thoughts, desires, and expectations, just as we have throughout the rest of our relationship.
We don't have kids, so if we choose to go our separate ways, that's fine. That's what adults who grow apart should do.
People here have also made some hay over my weight and whether I'm actually a reasonably fit person because at one point I was overweight.
I ran a 13 mile training run yesterday. That is not something an unfit person does.
I didn't say you were unfit. That wasn't the point at all. I'd be interested in you responding to the actual point.
I ran a marathon at 145, which is overweight at my height. Could have have run it faster if thinner? I am sure, but I ran it around 4:30, which is respectable enough for a first timer who didn't train that consistently, which was me at the time.
Being overweight does not mean that you can't do physical activities. Does being a certain amount overweight mean that? Sure, of course. But your drawing the line at 25 and then saying it's because the person would have stopped being who you fell in love with or changed so much or no longer can share interests doesn't make sense, and that's part of why I pointed out that you were talking about a weight you were not so long ago.
Being overweight is, as you yourself stated, a performance limiter.
As for the rest of your comment, you've clearly missed the previous times I have explained in this thread that it is not some binary switch that is on at 24.9999999 and off at 25.0. It's a progressive less and less attractive as the BMI gets up to the overweight range (barring some very fit low body fat lifters I've seen) and then it just becomes a hard "No."
And yep, a while ago, I was fat and unattractive. I fixed the problem and am working on getting even more fit and attractive. So no, you didn't find some mother lode of hypocrisy.3
This discussion has been closed.
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