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Should your S.O./Spouse have a say so if they feel you are too thin or too large?
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STLBADGIRL wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »a relationship is about honesty.
A partner has every right to comment on weight gain/loss irrespective of whether its a health concern.
Don't know about the rest of you and although physical attractiveness is high up in the initial part of the relationship and cemented for the rest, it doesn't mean we have turned completely blind - I'd rather voice my concerns to my partner than ogle over other people to get my 2 seconds of lust.
Do you mean that you would still be attracted to someone even if they got fat?
Would I love them just as much? Ofcourse.
Will I find them attractive? Really difficult to answer at this moment because it's not an issue.
Will I tell them they are gaining weight and it is rather noticeable? definitely.
Will I give them a hard time? no way, thats horrible.
I agree. If I am truly in love with the person, I would exhaust all possibilities first.
But I do admire people that know what they like and want and do not want to settle. But at the same token I would want to feel secure in my relationship and not that any moment due to weight gain. I think it is very important to discuss this type of stuff when you are dating and before it move to the serious mark - because clearly people have different perspectives (and they are entitled to)... But before now, I never thought about it as a must have conversation.
There's another way to not get left for becoming fat and unattractive to a partner.
By not getting fat. I wouldn't worry about it myself because I'm not worried about gaining weight, it's something I know I can control, and I do control it.
This is something that YOU can control. You are still dismissing the issue that food addiction is real and most obese or 'fat' people struggle with and is difficult for them to manage or control. Addiction is real.
Calling overeating an "addiction" sounds offensive to real addicts, no matter how many times I read it. And I cannot see how it improves the situation. If one were to post "My husband has been drinking more and more, is now drinking all day long and refuses to het help" no one would post "oh, you must accept him as he is, do not say anything or you might hurt his feelings, and stay in this marriage for the kids sake"! If we are going to accept food is an addiction, then a spouse should give an ultimatum for professional help and run if the "addict" does not want to change things. Who would advise anyone to tolerate an addict who does not want help???
You know who wants someone not to leave an alcoholic?0 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »a relationship is about honesty.
A partner has every right to comment on weight gain/loss irrespective of whether its a health concern.
Don't know about the rest of you and although physical attractiveness is high up in the initial part of the relationship and cemented for the rest, it doesn't mean we have turned completely blind - I'd rather voice my concerns to my partner than ogle over other people to get my 2 seconds of lust.
Do you mean that you would still be attracted to someone even if they got fat?
Would I love them just as much? Ofcourse.
Will I find them attractive? Really difficult to answer at this moment because it's not an issue.
Will I tell them they are gaining weight and it is rather noticeable? definitely.
Will I give them a hard time? no way, thats horrible.
I agree. If I am truly in love with the person, I would exhaust all possibilities first.
But I do admire people that know what they like and want and do not want to settle. But at the same token I would want to feel secure in my relationship and not that any moment due to weight gain. I think it is very important to discuss this type of stuff when you are dating and before it move to the serious mark - because clearly people have different perspectives (and they are entitled to)... But before now, I never thought about it as a must have conversation.
There's another way to not get left for becoming fat and unattractive to a partner.
By not getting fat. I wouldn't worry about it myself because I'm not worried about gaining weight, it's something I know I can control, and I do control it.
I really hope you fall off that high horse of yours one day...
I was once fat. Now I am not. I will not be fat again. Ever.WinoGelato wrote: »The lack of compassion and empathy in some individuals, totally focusing on whether their partner "gets fat" and what that would do to their attraction for that person, and whether they could still achieve physical gratification is just, well, words escape me. And that doesn't happen very often.
Relationships are complex. They are about more than sex.
Attraction is complex. It's about more than a physical appearance.
Health is complex. It is about more than weight.
Life is complex. Extenuating circumstances arise. Situations change. That people assume that nothing should ever come in the way of staying thin and attractive is... what's the word I'm looking for... appalling?
If you would be happy in a sexless relationship, that's your choice. I won't settle for what amounts to being financially entangled roommates with someone who I'm not attracted to. Your casual dismissal of the importance of sex in a relationship aside, surely you can understand that for many people the physical component of attraction cannot be removed.
I'm not attracted to fat people, and that doesn't, no matter what you say, make me a bad person.
I understand you aren't attracted to "fat people" and that for you, sex is an important part of the relationship (sounds like maybe the most important part, from your comments) and that you wouldn't have sex with a fat person. I have a couple of questions...
First, you've said that you yourself were fat, and are still working on losing weight. Were you in a relationship at the time? Did your partner continue to fulfill your sexual desires, even though you were overweight? I'm also presuming that because physical gratification is so important to you, that you on occasion... take care of business yourself. Did you find difficulty with this because you didn't meet your own criteria for not being attracted to fat people and not wanting to have sex with someone who is overweight?
Second, in the scenario you've built in this thread - when you said that you would end a relationship if they were obese because it would be "sexless" as you've described - it almost sounds like you are describing a partner that goes instantly from healthy BMI and physically fit, to morbidly obese. Weight gain, as we discuss so many times on these boards, doesn't happen overnight. Many people put weight on slowly over the years, due to a number of reasons (obviously root cause is CI>CO but there are lots of factors that contribute to those equations as we discuss endlessly around here) and often just wake up one day and realize that they've become overweight or obese, and want to do something about it. Presumably in the scenario you've described - over those months, years, etc you were still having sex with your partner, still attracted to them. You didn't just meet an individual that you were repelled by, you were in a committed relationship and the weight creeps on. Do you envision that this is is a proportional scale - that as their weight slowly rises, your attraction slowly declines? Do you envision that you would still be just as attracted and fulfilled by them and then suddenly one day you would look at them lying naked in bed and think "God, you are disgusting, I can't do this"?
Third, you are so firm about this, I have to ask - has this actually been the case, did you do this to someone or did someone do it to you - or is this all a hypothetical scenario?
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There is a difference in demanding that a person lose weight and in in giving an opinion. Telling the other person that you feel they should make this kind of change because you are concerned for their health or because they are not as attractive to you as they used to be does not necessarily equate to not loving them anymore. However telling someone to lose or gain weight or the relationship will end is out of line. So is withholding love and/or affection, cheating, berating and harshly criticizing or other mental/emotional abuse due to the person's physical appearance. If someone has taken it upon themselves to use the other person's physical appearance as their reason for their poor behavior then there is a problem aside from physical appearance that needs to unearthed.5
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I've known my husband for almost 30 years. Over that time we've each been up and down the scale.
Navigating a successful long-term relationship requires a lot of skill and determination and focus on a big picture.
Some things are deal breakers to some people, they aren't to others, apparently.
In our relationship, we've dealt with financial bad times, the death of parents, the development of a major chronic illness and ensuing major depressive episode in its aftermath, a child with behavioral problems, and a child on the autism spectrum.
A successful relationship, we've come to find, has meant supporting each other through these things and communicating well to see ourselves through the bad times.
Neither of us have cared much what the other has looked like weight-wise, and I know, from past experience with a mother who fat-shamed me that people can't make other people change.
People can have their preferences, of course. My husband would have preferred that I had not had a personality shift when I developed a brain tumor, for example. It took a while for us to adjust. I would have preferred that my husband had not become moody when he had a terrible boss for a while at work. It took a while for us to adjust. My husband would have preferred that I not had a bout of major depression. It took us a while to adjust.
The thing is, we love each other and are committed to our marriage. Other people may view relationships and what their priorities are differently.
I can't wrap my head around love that's so conditional that something external could end it and sex that frankly, as the years pass, becomes less and less an important factor in a relationship.
You may not find sex to be a required part of a relationship. Other people do, and that doesn't make them wrong and you right.
I happen to be someone who requires sex (and frequently) as part of a relationship. If that need is not met, that relationship will not work. I'm not looking for a roommate.
You also may be someone who doesn't care what your partner weighs. I am. I'm not attracted to people who fall outside the normal weight range in general. That doesn't make me wrong or a bad person or less mature than you, either. I don't expect that my preferences would make someone else change - but they need to understand as well that I am not obligated to change what I'm attracted to to suit them and it doesn't make me a jerk that the body type I'm attracted to isn't the one they have. It would be the same if they weren't the gender that I'm attracted to.
You also seem to be assuming that this is age related and that those of us who eschew the idea of sexless relationships are simply young and will learn as we get older. That is most definitely not the case for me.
Not seeing where she said her relationship was devoid of sex, just that in the overall, realistic and all-encompassing elements that a true lifelong committed relationship requires, sex is merely one small piece of a much more complex and way less superficial or self-serving whole.12 -
I wonder when people say that sex is really not important after some years in a relationship, if they ever had an honest conversation about it with their partner and if he/she agrees, or if they just assume it is so.1
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I've known my husband for almost 30 years. Over that time we've each been up and down the scale.
Navigating a successful long-term relationship requires a lot of skill and determination and focus on a big picture.
Some things are deal breakers to some people, they aren't to others, apparently.
In our relationship, we've dealt with financial bad times, the death of parents, the development of a major chronic illness and ensuing major depressive episode in its aftermath, a child with behavioral problems, and a child on the autism spectrum.
A successful relationship, we've come to find, has meant supporting each other through these things and communicating well to see ourselves through the bad times.
Neither of us have cared much what the other has looked like weight-wise, and I know, from past experience with a mother who fat-shamed me that people can't make other people change.
People can have their preferences, of course. My husband would have preferred that I had not had a personality shift when I developed a brain tumor, for example. It took a while for us to adjust. I would have preferred that my husband had not become moody when he had a terrible boss for a while at work. It took a while for us to adjust. My husband would have preferred that I not had a bout of major depression. It took us a while to adjust.
The thing is, we love each other and are committed to our marriage. Other people may view relationships and what their priorities are differently.
I can't wrap my head around love that's so conditional that something external could end it and sex that frankly, as the years pass, becomes less and less an important factor in a relationship.
You may not find sex to be a required part of a relationship. Other people do, and that doesn't make them wrong and you right.
I happen to be someone who requires sex (and frequently) as part of a relationship. If that need is not met, that relationship will not work. I'm not looking for a roommate.
You also may be someone who doesn't care what your partner weighs. I am. I'm not attracted to people who fall outside the normal weight range in general. That doesn't make me wrong or a bad person or less mature than you, either. I don't expect that my preferences would make someone else change - but they need to understand as well that I am not obligated to change what I'm attracted to to suit them and it doesn't make me a jerk that the body type I'm attracted to isn't the one they have. It would be the same if they weren't the gender that I'm attracted to.
You also seem to be assuming that this is age related and that those of us who eschew the idea of sexless relationships are simply young and will learn as we get older. That is most definitely not the case for me.
You are entitled to your preferences.
I do however, believe you've never been in a long-term relationship.
Circumstances change over the course of passing time. You would have learned that if you'd ever had the experience of having navigated a very long relationship spanning decades.
You don't speak like someone who has ever shared anything but conditional love. Relationships based on that don't last.18 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I've known my husband for almost 30 years. Over that time we've each been up and down the scale.
Navigating a successful long-term relationship requires a lot of skill and determination and focus on a big picture.
Some things are deal breakers to some people, they aren't to others, apparently.
In our relationship, we've dealt with financial bad times, the death of parents, the development of a major chronic illness and ensuing major depressive episode in its aftermath, a child with behavioral problems, and a child on the autism spectrum.
A successful relationship, we've come to find, has meant supporting each other through these things and communicating well to see ourselves through the bad times.
Neither of us have cared much what the other has looked like weight-wise, and I know, from past experience with a mother who fat-shamed me that people can't make other people change.
People can have their preferences, of course. My husband would have preferred that I had not had a personality shift when I developed a brain tumor, for example. It took a while for us to adjust. I would have preferred that my husband had not become moody when he had a terrible boss for a while at work. It took a while for us to adjust. My husband would have preferred that I not had a bout of major depression. It took us a while to adjust.
The thing is, we love each other and are committed to our marriage. Other people may view relationships and what their priorities are differently.
I can't wrap my head around love that's so conditional that something external could end it and sex that frankly, as the years pass, becomes less and less an important factor in a relationship.
You may not find sex to be a required part of a relationship. Other people do, and that doesn't make them wrong and you right.
I happen to be someone who requires sex (and frequently) as part of a relationship. If that need is not met, that relationship will not work. I'm not looking for a roommate.
You also may be someone who doesn't care what your partner weighs. I am. I'm not attracted to people who fall outside the normal weight range in general. That doesn't make me wrong or a bad person or less mature than you, either. I don't expect that my preferences would make someone else change - but they need to understand as well that I am not obligated to change what I'm attracted to to suit them and it doesn't make me a jerk that the body type I'm attracted to isn't the one they have. It would be the same if they weren't the gender that I'm attracted to.
You also seem to be assuming that this is age related and that those of us who eschew the idea of sexless relationships are simply young and will learn as we get older. That is most definitely not the case for me.
Not seeing where she said her relationship was devoid of sex, just that in the overall, realistic and all-encompassing elements that a true lifelong committed relationship requires, sex is merely one small piece of a much more complex and way less superficial or self-serving whole.
Fair point. Our relationship is not devoid of sex. It's just not a huge priority the way it used to be when we were in our 20's and 30's. Or even 40's.5 -
WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »a relationship is about honesty.
A partner has every right to comment on weight gain/loss irrespective of whether its a health concern.
Don't know about the rest of you and although physical attractiveness is high up in the initial part of the relationship and cemented for the rest, it doesn't mean we have turned completely blind - I'd rather voice my concerns to my partner than ogle over other people to get my 2 seconds of lust.
Do you mean that you would still be attracted to someone even if they got fat?
Would I love them just as much? Ofcourse.
Will I find them attractive? Really difficult to answer at this moment because it's not an issue.
Will I tell them they are gaining weight and it is rather noticeable? definitely.
Will I give them a hard time? no way, thats horrible.
I agree. If I am truly in love with the person, I would exhaust all possibilities first.
But I do admire people that know what they like and want and do not want to settle. But at the same token I would want to feel secure in my relationship and not that any moment due to weight gain. I think it is very important to discuss this type of stuff when you are dating and before it move to the serious mark - because clearly people have different perspectives (and they are entitled to)... But before now, I never thought about it as a must have conversation.
There's another way to not get left for becoming fat and unattractive to a partner.
By not getting fat. I wouldn't worry about it myself because I'm not worried about gaining weight, it's something I know I can control, and I do control it.
I really hope you fall off that high horse of yours one day...
I was once fat. Now I am not. I will not be fat again. Ever.WinoGelato wrote: »The lack of compassion and empathy in some individuals, totally focusing on whether their partner "gets fat" and what that would do to their attraction for that person, and whether they could still achieve physical gratification is just, well, words escape me. And that doesn't happen very often.
Relationships are complex. They are about more than sex.
Attraction is complex. It's about more than a physical appearance.
Health is complex. It is about more than weight.
Life is complex. Extenuating circumstances arise. Situations change. That people assume that nothing should ever come in the way of staying thin and attractive is... what's the word I'm looking for... appalling?
If you would be happy in a sexless relationship, that's your choice. I won't settle for what amounts to being financially entangled roommates with someone who I'm not attracted to. Your casual dismissal of the importance of sex in a relationship aside, surely you can understand that for many people the physical component of attraction cannot be removed.
I'm not attracted to fat people, and that doesn't, no matter what you say, make me a bad person.
I understand you aren't attracted to "fat people" and that for you, sex is an important part of the relationship (sounds like maybe the most important part, from your comments) and that you wouldn't have sex with a fat person. I have a couple of questions...
Most of which are probably already answered earlier in the thread.
First, you've said that you yourself were fat, and are still working on losing weight. Were you in a relationship at the time?[/quote]
At various points in time yes.Did your partner continue to fulfill your sexual desires, even though you were overweight?
There isn't a yes or no answer to this because there wasn't a single partner during all of the time that we're talking about. Yes and no.I'm also presuming that because physical gratification is so important to you, that you on occasion... take care of business yourself. Did you find difficulty with this because you didn't meet your own criteria for not being attracted to fat people and not wanting to have sex with someone who is overweight?
Taking care of business became difficult, yep, and mostly because I was fat and considered myself unattractive.Second, in the scenario you've built in this thread - when you said that you would end a relationship if they were obese because it would be "sexless" as you've described - it almost sounds like you are describing a partner that goes instantly from healthy BMI and physically fit, to morbidly obese. Weight gain, as we discuss so many times on these boards, doesn't happen overnight. Many people put weight on slowly over the years, due to a number of reasons (obviously root cause is CI>CO but there are lots of factors that contribute to those equations as we discuss endlessly around here) and often just wake up one day and realize that they've become overweight or obese, and want to do something about it. Presumably in the scenario you've described - over those months, years, etc you were still having sex with your partner, still attracted to them. You didn't just meet an individual that you were repelled by, you were in a committed relationship and the weight creeps on. Do you envision that this is is a proportional scale - that as their weight slowly rises, your attraction slowly declines? Do you envision that you would still be just as attracted and fulfilled by them and then suddenly one day you would look at them lying naked in bed and think "God, you are disgusting, I can't do this"?
I have said several times in this thread that there would be various points at which I would bring it up. I have outlined it pretty clearly, but you probably just didn't read it.- 5-10 lbs is a conversation about "Hey, you're gaining weight. Time to reevaluate the eating we've been doing and up the exercise.
- 15-20 lbs is a conversation about "You're really packing on the pounds. Are you at all interested in changing that even though it's negatively affecting our relationship and sex life?
- 30 lbs / overweight is the point at which it's "This has become untenable. Unless you are going to correct the problem with your overeating, I do not see this relationship having a future."
Third, you are so firm about this, I have to ask - has this actually been the case, did you do this to someone or did someone do it to you - or is this all a hypothetical scenario?
It's gone both ways before. And no, I'm not bitter about being dumped. It was the right thing to do at the time because I wasn't a good partner.
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There is a difference in demanding that a person lose weight and in in giving an opinion. Telling the other person that you feel they should make this kind of change because you are concerned for their health or because they are not as attractive to you as they used to be does not necessarily equate to not loving them anymore. However telling someone to lose or gain weight or the relationship will end is out of line. So is withholding love and/or affection, cheating, berating and harshly criticizing or other mental/emotional abuse due to the person's physical appearance. If someone has taken it upon themselves to use the other person's physical appearance as their reason for their poor behavior then there is a problem aside from physical appearance that needs to unearthed.
No one is owed a relationship and everyone is entitled to define their own deal-breakers. If you don't like someone else's deal-breakers, don't get into a relationship with them.
If a relationship is making one of the people in it unhappy, they have every right to leave.snickerscharlie wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I've known my husband for almost 30 years. Over that time we've each been up and down the scale.
Navigating a successful long-term relationship requires a lot of skill and determination and focus on a big picture.
Some things are deal breakers to some people, they aren't to others, apparently.
In our relationship, we've dealt with financial bad times, the death of parents, the development of a major chronic illness and ensuing major depressive episode in its aftermath, a child with behavioral problems, and a child on the autism spectrum.
A successful relationship, we've come to find, has meant supporting each other through these things and communicating well to see ourselves through the bad times.
Neither of us have cared much what the other has looked like weight-wise, and I know, from past experience with a mother who fat-shamed me that people can't make other people change.
People can have their preferences, of course. My husband would have preferred that I had not had a personality shift when I developed a brain tumor, for example. It took a while for us to adjust. I would have preferred that my husband had not become moody when he had a terrible boss for a while at work. It took a while for us to adjust. My husband would have preferred that I not had a bout of major depression. It took us a while to adjust.
The thing is, we love each other and are committed to our marriage. Other people may view relationships and what their priorities are differently.
I can't wrap my head around love that's so conditional that something external could end it and sex that frankly, as the years pass, becomes less and less an important factor in a relationship.
You may not find sex to be a required part of a relationship. Other people do, and that doesn't make them wrong and you right.
I happen to be someone who requires sex (and frequently) as part of a relationship. If that need is not met, that relationship will not work. I'm not looking for a roommate.
You also may be someone who doesn't care what your partner weighs. I am. I'm not attracted to people who fall outside the normal weight range in general. That doesn't make me wrong or a bad person or less mature than you, either. I don't expect that my preferences would make someone else change - but they need to understand as well that I am not obligated to change what I'm attracted to to suit them and it doesn't make me a jerk that the body type I'm attracted to isn't the one they have. It would be the same if they weren't the gender that I'm attracted to.
You also seem to be assuming that this is age related and that those of us who eschew the idea of sexless relationships are simply young and will learn as we get older. That is most definitely not the case for me.
Not seeing where she said her relationship was devoid of sex, just that in the overall, realistic and all-encompassing elements that a true lifelong committed relationship requires, sex is merely one small piece of a much more complex and way less superficial or self-serving whole.
I don't consider it a "small" piece.I wonder when people say that sex is really not important after some years in a relationship, if they ever had an honest conversation about it with their partner and if he/she agrees, or if they just assume it is so.
I would consider it foolish to commit to someone without agreement about sex, and that includes both libido and interests.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I've known my husband for almost 30 years. Over that time we've each been up and down the scale.
Navigating a successful long-term relationship requires a lot of skill and determination and focus on a big picture.
Some things are deal breakers to some people, they aren't to others, apparently.
In our relationship, we've dealt with financial bad times, the death of parents, the development of a major chronic illness and ensuing major depressive episode in its aftermath, a child with behavioral problems, and a child on the autism spectrum.
A successful relationship, we've come to find, has meant supporting each other through these things and communicating well to see ourselves through the bad times.
Neither of us have cared much what the other has looked like weight-wise, and I know, from past experience with a mother who fat-shamed me that people can't make other people change.
People can have their preferences, of course. My husband would have preferred that I had not had a personality shift when I developed a brain tumor, for example. It took a while for us to adjust. I would have preferred that my husband had not become moody when he had a terrible boss for a while at work. It took a while for us to adjust. My husband would have preferred that I not had a bout of major depression. It took us a while to adjust.
The thing is, we love each other and are committed to our marriage. Other people may view relationships and what their priorities are differently.
I can't wrap my head around love that's so conditional that something external could end it and sex that frankly, as the years pass, becomes less and less an important factor in a relationship.
You may not find sex to be a required part of a relationship. Other people do, and that doesn't make them wrong and you right.
I happen to be someone who requires sex (and frequently) as part of a relationship. If that need is not met, that relationship will not work. I'm not looking for a roommate.
You also may be someone who doesn't care what your partner weighs. I am. I'm not attracted to people who fall outside the normal weight range in general. That doesn't make me wrong or a bad person or less mature than you, either. I don't expect that my preferences would make someone else change - but they need to understand as well that I am not obligated to change what I'm attracted to to suit them and it doesn't make me a jerk that the body type I'm attracted to isn't the one they have. It would be the same if they weren't the gender that I'm attracted to.
You also seem to be assuming that this is age related and that those of us who eschew the idea of sexless relationships are simply young and will learn as we get older. That is most definitely not the case for me.
You are entitled to your preferences.
Then why are you making personal judgments about what kind of person I am?I do however, believe you've never been in a long-term relationship.
Wrong.Circumstances change over the course of passing time. You would have learned that if you'd ever had the experience of having navigated a very long relationship spanning decades.
This is needlessly judgmental.You don't speak like someone who has ever shared anything but conditional love. Relationships based on that don't last.
All love is conditional. The only difference is what conditions are placed upon it by the person whose love it is.2 -
There is a difference in demanding that a person lose weight and in in giving an opinion. Telling the other person that you feel they should make this kind of change because you are concerned for their health or because they are not as attractive to you as they used to be does not necessarily equate to not loving them anymore. However telling someone to lose or gain weight or the relationship will end is out of line. So is withholding love and/or affection, cheating, berating and harshly criticizing or other mental/emotional abuse due to the person's physical appearance. If someone has taken it upon themselves to use the other person's physical appearance as their reason for their poor behavior then there is a problem aside from physical appearance that needs to unearthed.
Ending a relationship, or discussing it a possibility is not the same as berating, abusing or cheating.
It would be awful to use a person's weight, or health, or new hobby or whatever else as an excuse to cheat or call names or physically abuse.
But leaving a partner is always an option, and there are several reasons to do so. Having a talk about it, or several discussions about which things in a relationship are not working and how these should change, it sounds like the mature thing to do. Why would one just have to suffer in silence? Telling a partner that you have a serious problem with them becoming chain smokers, or going through a midlife crisis and staying out late every night, or developing poor hygiene habits, or constantly gaining weight, or losing their sex drive, or whatever else, so this person can decide if he/she wants to work on the relationship and make an effort or not, it is better than suffering in silence until it all gets too much.1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »All love is conditional. The only difference is what conditions are placed upon it by the person whose love it is.
To a small degree, I agree with you.
If, for example, the man that I married turned into a physically/verbally abusive alcoholic or drug addict who resisted any and all attempts at rehab, for my own safety and that of my family, that would definitely be a dealbreaker.
But something like, for example, dumping your partner because he lost his job and wasn't able to financially provide the way he could previously, or because he's losing his hair, or has put on a few pounds seems rather tragically superficial to me.
Unconditional love within the parameters of a healthy loving relationship *does* exist, and it it something that everyone should experience at least once in their life.
(Edited to fix quotes. Arrgghh.)
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I've known my husband for almost 30 years. Over that time we've each been up and down the scale.
Navigating a successful long-term relationship requires a lot of skill and determination and focus on a big picture.
Some things are deal breakers to some people, they aren't to others, apparently.
In our relationship, we've dealt with financial bad times, the death of parents, the development of a major chronic illness and ensuing major depressive episode in its aftermath, a child with behavioral problems, and a child on the autism spectrum.
A successful relationship, we've come to find, has meant supporting each other through these things and communicating well to see ourselves through the bad times.
Neither of us have cared much what the other has looked like weight-wise, and I know, from past experience with a mother who fat-shamed me that people can't make other people change.
People can have their preferences, of course. My husband would have preferred that I had not had a personality shift when I developed a brain tumor, for example. It took a while for us to adjust. I would have preferred that my husband had not become moody when he had a terrible boss for a while at work. It took a while for us to adjust. My husband would have preferred that I not had a bout of major depression. It took us a while to adjust.
The thing is, we love each other and are committed to our marriage. Other people may view relationships and what their priorities are differently.
I can't wrap my head around love that's so conditional that something external could end it and sex that frankly, as the years pass, becomes less and less an important factor in a relationship.
You may not find sex to be a required part of a relationship. Other people do, and that doesn't make them wrong and you right.
I happen to be someone who requires sex (and frequently) as part of a relationship. If that need is not met, that relationship will not work. I'm not looking for a roommate.
You also may be someone who doesn't care what your partner weighs. I am. I'm not attracted to people who fall outside the normal weight range in general. That doesn't make me wrong or a bad person or less mature than you, either. I don't expect that my preferences would make someone else change - but they need to understand as well that I am not obligated to change what I'm attracted to to suit them and it doesn't make me a jerk that the body type I'm attracted to isn't the one they have. It would be the same if they weren't the gender that I'm attracted to.
You also seem to be assuming that this is age related and that those of us who eschew the idea of sexless relationships are simply young and will learn as we get older. That is most definitely not the case for me.
You are entitled to your preferences.
Then why are you making personal judgments about what kind of person I am?
Why do you make judgments about what type of people fat people are?I do however, believe you've never been in a long-term relationship.Wrong.
Decades long? Longer than 10 years? I don't think so.Circumstances change over the course of passing time. You would have learned that if you'd ever had the experience of having navigated a very long relationship spanning decades.This is needlessly judgmental.
High irony coming from you after all you've said in this thread.You don't speak like someone who has ever shared anything but conditional love. Relationships based on that don't last.All love is conditional. The only difference is what conditions are placed upon it by the person whose love it is.
Fair enough. I wouldn't stay with someone who molested our children.
I just find that where you're drawing the line on your conditional love to be rather close to something superficial.
12 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I've known my husband for almost 30 years. Over that time we've each been up and down the scale.
Navigating a successful long-term relationship requires a lot of skill and determination and focus on a big picture.
Some things are deal breakers to some people, they aren't to others, apparently.
In our relationship, we've dealt with financial bad times, the death of parents, the development of a major chronic illness and ensuing major depressive episode in its aftermath, a child with behavioral problems, and a child on the autism spectrum.
A successful relationship, we've come to find, has meant supporting each other through these things and communicating well to see ourselves through the bad times.
Neither of us have cared much what the other has looked like weight-wise, and I know, from past experience with a mother who fat-shamed me that people can't make other people change.
People can have their preferences, of course. My husband would have preferred that I had not had a personality shift when I developed a brain tumor, for example. It took a while for us to adjust. I would have preferred that my husband had not become moody when he had a terrible boss for a while at work. It took a while for us to adjust. My husband would have preferred that I not had a bout of major depression. It took us a while to adjust.
The thing is, we love each other and are committed to our marriage. Other people may view relationships and what their priorities are differently.
I can't wrap my head around love that's so conditional that something external could end it and sex that frankly, as the years pass, becomes less and less an important factor in a relationship.
You may not find sex to be a required part of a relationship. Other people do, and that doesn't make them wrong and you right.
I happen to be someone who requires sex (and frequently) as part of a relationship. If that need is not met, that relationship will not work. I'm not looking for a roommate.
You also may be someone who doesn't care what your partner weighs. I am. I'm not attracted to people who fall outside the normal weight range in general. That doesn't make me wrong or a bad person or less mature than you, either. I don't expect that my preferences would make someone else change - but they need to understand as well that I am not obligated to change what I'm attracted to to suit them and it doesn't make me a jerk that the body type I'm attracted to isn't the one they have. It would be the same if they weren't the gender that I'm attracted to.
You also seem to be assuming that this is age related and that those of us who eschew the idea of sexless relationships are simply young and will learn as we get older. That is most definitely not the case for me.
You are entitled to your preferences.
Then why are you making personal judgments about what kind of person I am?
Why do you make judgments about what type of people fat people are?I do however, believe you've never been in a long-term relationship.Wrong.
Decades long? Longer than 10 years? I don't think so.Circumstances change over the course of passing time. You would have learned that if you'd ever had the experience of having navigated a very long relationship spanning decades.This is needlessly judgmental.
High irony coming from you after all you've said in this thread.You don't speak like someone who has ever shared anything but conditional love. Relationships based on that don't last.All love is conditional. The only difference is what conditions are placed upon it by the person whose love it is.
Fair enough. I wouldn't stay with someone who molested our children.
I just find that where you're drawing the line on your conditional love to be rather close to something superficial.
now you are clutching at straws and needlessly getting personal.
There is no need for this behavior and even though I don't agree with his stance either, he is entitled to his own views and nobody has the right to belittle or play holier than thou. I see him doing no harm to anyone.
4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Why do you make judgments about what type of people fat people are?
I judge that they are not compatible with me because we have different attitudes and lifestyles which do not result in a mutually beneficial romantic relationship.
If you think that makes me a bad person, you're entitled to your opinion.Decades long? Longer than 10 years? I don't think so.
What does that demonstrate?High irony coming from you after all you've said in this thread.
I have said repeatedly that other people have the right to define what they want out of a relationship for themselves, and have never told you that you are wrong or a bad person for not wanting the same things that I do.Fair enough. I wouldn't stay with someone who molested our children.
I just find that where you're drawing the line on your conditional love to be rather close to something superficial.
Superficial to you. Compatible lifestyles and that includes fitness and sex are not something I consider superficial.
0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »But something like, for example, dumping your partner because he lost his job and wasn't able to financially provide the way he could previously, or because he's losing his hair, or has put on a few pounds seems rather tragically superficial to me.
It really depends on what the response to losing the job is.
No effort to get another one will end the relationship. Balding is also not the same as getting fat - one of those is involuntary and the other is a result of choices.1 -
There is a difference in demanding that a person lose weight and in in giving an opinion. Telling the other person that you feel they should make this kind of change because you are concerned for their health or because they are not as attractive to you as they used to be does not necessarily equate to not loving them anymore. However telling someone to lose or gain weight or the relationship will end is out of line. So is withholding love and/or affection, cheating, berating and harshly criticizing or other mental/emotional abuse due to the person's physical appearance. If someone has taken it upon themselves to use the other person's physical appearance as their reason for their poor behavior then there is a problem aside from physical appearance that needs to unearthed.
Ending a relationship, or discussing it a possibility is not the same as berating, abusing or cheating.
It would be awful to use a person's weight, or health, or new hobby or whatever else as an excuse to cheat or call names or physically abuse.
But leaving a partner is always an option, and there are several reasons to do so. Having a talk about it, or several discussions about which things in a relationship are not working and how these should change, it sounds like the mature thing to do. Why would one just have to suffer in silence? Telling a partner that you have a serious problem with them becoming chain smokers, or going through a midlife crisis and staying out late every night, or developing poor hygiene habits, or constantly gaining weight, or losing their sex drive, or whatever else, so this person can decide if he/she wants to work on the relationship and make an effort or not, it is better than suffering in silence until it all gets too much.
Didn't say it was the same. I used the two as separate items.0 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »a relationship is about honesty.
A partner has every right to comment on weight gain/loss irrespective of whether its a health concern.
Don't know about the rest of you and although physical attractiveness is high up in the initial part of the relationship and cemented for the rest, it doesn't mean we have turned completely blind - I'd rather voice my concerns to my partner than ogle over other people to get my 2 seconds of lust.
Do you mean that you would still be attracted to someone even if they got fat?
Would I love them just as much? Ofcourse.
Will I find them attractive? Really difficult to answer at this moment because it's not an issue.
Will I tell them they are gaining weight and it is rather noticeable? definitely.
Will I give them a hard time? no way, thats horrible.
I agree. If I am truly in love with the person, I would exhaust all possibilities first.
But I do admire people that know what they like and want and do not want to settle. But at the same token I would want to feel secure in my relationship and not that any moment due to weight gain. I think it is very important to discuss this type of stuff when you are dating and before it move to the serious mark - because clearly people have different perspectives (and they are entitled to)... But before now, I never thought about it as a must have conversation.
There's another way to not get left for becoming fat and unattractive to a partner.
By not getting fat. I wouldn't worry about it myself because I'm not worried about gaining weight, it's something I know I can control, and I do control it.
This is something that YOU can control. You are still dismissing the issue that food addiction is real and most obese or 'fat' people struggle with and is difficult for them to manage or control. Addiction is real.
Calling overeating an "addiction" sounds offensive to real addicts, no matter how many times I read it. And I cannot see how it improves the situation. If one were to post "My husband has been drinking more and more, is now drinking all day long and refuses to het help" no one would post "oh, you must accept him as he is, do not say anything or you might hurt his feelings, and stay in this marriage for the kids sake"! If we are going to accept food is an addiction, then a spouse should give an ultimatum for professional help and run if the "addict" does not want to change things. Who would advise anyone to tolerate an addict who does not want help???
I NEVER once told anyone to tolerate it. But for people to keep slinging the word around that they can control it or they brought it on themselves as a blanket statement is dismissing the fact that some people are addicted or have another underlying issue. If this is the case a "real addict" whatever that is - has created that problem for themselves as well if we are going there or using that logic
No one forces an alcoholic to drink or to use drugs - its a choice that becomes uncontrollable or out of hand. 2 -
SpotLighttt wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I've known my husband for almost 30 years. Over that time we've each been up and down the scale.
Navigating a successful long-term relationship requires a lot of skill and determination and focus on a big picture.
Some things are deal breakers to some people, they aren't to others, apparently.
In our relationship, we've dealt with financial bad times, the death of parents, the development of a major chronic illness and ensuing major depressive episode in its aftermath, a child with behavioral problems, and a child on the autism spectrum.
A successful relationship, we've come to find, has meant supporting each other through these things and communicating well to see ourselves through the bad times.
Neither of us have cared much what the other has looked like weight-wise, and I know, from past experience with a mother who fat-shamed me that people can't make other people change.
People can have their preferences, of course. My husband would have preferred that I had not had a personality shift when I developed a brain tumor, for example. It took a while for us to adjust. I would have preferred that my husband had not become moody when he had a terrible boss for a while at work. It took a while for us to adjust. My husband would have preferred that I not had a bout of major depression. It took us a while to adjust.
The thing is, we love each other and are committed to our marriage. Other people may view relationships and what their priorities are differently.
I can't wrap my head around love that's so conditional that something external could end it and sex that frankly, as the years pass, becomes less and less an important factor in a relationship.
You may not find sex to be a required part of a relationship. Other people do, and that doesn't make them wrong and you right.
I happen to be someone who requires sex (and frequently) as part of a relationship. If that need is not met, that relationship will not work. I'm not looking for a roommate.
You also may be someone who doesn't care what your partner weighs. I am. I'm not attracted to people who fall outside the normal weight range in general. That doesn't make me wrong or a bad person or less mature than you, either. I don't expect that my preferences would make someone else change - but they need to understand as well that I am not obligated to change what I'm attracted to to suit them and it doesn't make me a jerk that the body type I'm attracted to isn't the one they have. It would be the same if they weren't the gender that I'm attracted to.
You also seem to be assuming that this is age related and that those of us who eschew the idea of sexless relationships are simply young and will learn as we get older. That is most definitely not the case for me.
You are entitled to your preferences.
Then why are you making personal judgments about what kind of person I am?
Why do you make judgments about what type of people fat people are?I do however, believe you've never been in a long-term relationship.Wrong.
Decades long? Longer than 10 years? I don't think so.Circumstances change over the course of passing time. You would have learned that if you'd ever had the experience of having navigated a very long relationship spanning decades.This is needlessly judgmental.
High irony coming from you after all you've said in this thread.You don't speak like someone who has ever shared anything but conditional love. Relationships based on that don't last.All love is conditional. The only difference is what conditions are placed upon it by the person whose love it is.
Fair enough. I wouldn't stay with someone who molested our children.
I just find that where you're drawing the line on your conditional love to be rather close to something superficial.
now you are clutching at straws and needlessly getting personal.
There is no need for this behavior and even though I don't agree with his stance either, he is entitled to his own views and nobody has the right to belittle or play holier than thou. I see him doing no harm to anyone.
Since the question of this thread is regarding relationships, yes, I'm getting personal because I believe she (the other poster is not a man) is sharing her opinions on the topic as someone from within the framework of a relationship, but rather from within the framework of her feelings on her own weight.
She is entitled to her own opinions on her weight, and I am entitled to my opinions on how she views relationships.6 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Why do you make judgments about what type of people fat people are?
I judge that they are not compatible with me because we have different attitudes and lifestyles which do not result in a mutually beneficial romantic relationship.
If you think that makes me a bad person, you're entitled to your opinion.Decades long? Longer than 10 years? I don't think so.
What does that demonstrate?High irony coming from you after all you've said in this thread.
I have said repeatedly that other people have the right to define what they want out of a relationship for themselves, and have never told you that you are wrong or a bad person for not wanting the same things that I do.Fair enough. I wouldn't stay with someone who molested our children.
I just find that where you're drawing the line on your conditional love to be rather close to something superficial.
Superficial to you. Compatible lifestyles and that includes fitness and sex are not something I consider superficial.
The quotes get all messed up so I'm not going to bother, but I want to respond to you about the length of relationships and why it's clear to me why you've never been in a very long term relationship.
The superficial fades over time. You've made claims to not being young, but I doubt you're old and I doubt you've ever dealt with something like a major health crisis. The passage of time (long amounts of it) changes people and their perspective, and many years with someone changes the face of a relationship.
You do not speak like someone who has had the chance to live that experience.10
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