Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

Should your S.O./Spouse have a say so if they feel you are too thin or too large?

1…1112141617…46

Replies

  • STLBADGIRL
    STLBADGIRL Posts: 1,693 Member
    cqbkaju wrote: »
    JeepHair77 wrote: »
    For what it's worth - I think we understand you. It's just... sort of hard to wrap our minds around.
    Many humans are not comfortable when confronted with hard truths from others that they do not want to consider in themselves.

    Just sayin'

    I agree and stated this above.
  • JeepHair77
    JeepHair77 Posts: 1,291 Member
    cqbkaju wrote: »
    JeepHair77 wrote: »
    For what it's worth - I think we understand you. It's just... sort of hard to wrap our minds around.
    Many humans are not comfortable when confronted with hard truths from others that they do not want to consider in themselves.

    Just sayin'

    LOL! Yeah, I know the hard truth, believe me. I said myself back on page 2 or so that I actually DO recognize this as a hard truth in my own relationship - although jeez, even my husband would never put it in such point-blank terminology. (Or then again, maybe, on a semi-anonymous message board, he would.)

    I think most of us, by virtue of being HERE, get that truth in some form or fashion. The part I've had trouble with from @heiliskrimsli is that context is missing from the analysis.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    edited April 2017
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    heiliskrimsli wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    heiliskrimsli wrote: »
    Therealobi1 wrote: »
    heiliskrimsli wrote: »
    Therealobi1 wrote: »
    Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
    The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?

    You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?

    Really?

    i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
    by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?

    I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.

    What if it's a positive thing in their life?

    Are you suggesting that in a relationship it's OK if one of the parties is fundamentally unhappy as long as the other person thinks its great?

    I am suggesting that a good relationship is a partnership, and often that can mean putting the needs of your partner above the needs of yourself. I am not saying that individuals don't have the right to be happy. But your black and white view of this seems focused solely on yourself, and that does not suggest that you view your relationships as a true partnership.

    ^This. Particularly if the emphasis is on building a lasting relationship.

    I will stand by my contention that the focus on things like sex and appearance (though they might be early on) without any consideration that things evolve over time and circumstances change and priorities shift over time and true partners with a commitment to a relationship work though these things is something that people with an eye on the fact that life could throw you a curve ball at any time don't focus on. Adaptability and a willingness to support is key to keeping a relationship going through changing circumstances.
  • Nixi3Knox
    Nixi3Knox Posts: 182 Member
    heiliskrimsli wrote: »
    Nixi3Knox wrote: »
    There is a difference in demanding that a person lose weight and in in giving an opinion. Telling the other person that you feel they should make this kind of change because you are concerned for their health or because they are not as attractive to you as they used to be does not necessarily equate to not loving them anymore. However telling someone to lose or gain weight or the relationship will end is out of line. So is withholding love and/or affection, cheating, berating and harshly criticizing or other mental/emotional abuse due to the person's physical appearance. If someone has taken it upon themselves to use the other person's physical appearance as their reason for their poor behavior then there is a problem aside from physical appearance that needs to unearthed.

    No one is owed a relationship and everyone is entitled to define their own deal-breakers. If you don't like someone else's deal-breakers, don't get into a relationship with them.

    If a relationship is making one of the people in it unhappy, they have every right to leave.

    Perhaps these "deal breakers" should be disclosed UP FRONT.
  • heiliskrimsli
    heiliskrimsli Posts: 735 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    heiliskrimsli wrote: »
    You want to know what I think about partnership? Partnership doe snot mean one person gives u p what is important to them because the other one fundamentally changes who they are. If I started a relationship on the terms that I'm an active person, a normal weight person, someone who goes out and does things with this other person and then I completely change my lifestyle on them by quitting exercise, replacing all those mutually shared activities with couch surfing, and I gain a bunch of weight, I'm not the same person they committed to being with.

    Getting to a BMI of 25 or 26 -- and you said you'd warn them if the pants started getting tight, do it again if the pants stopped fitting, and out the door as soon as they were officially overweight -- does not mean "fundamentally changes who they are" or "completely changes lifestyle" or stops being an active person, though. It really does just seem purely physical. Which you've acknowledged in other posts, I think, and that's totally your choice and all.

    That kind of progression doesn't happen overnight. Or in a week. Or one month.
    For me, some weight ups and downs (and other life ups and down) seem like things lots of people go through. A lot of people have talked about how they gained some weight due to temporary life circumstances. Pregnancy/new baby is one, lost job/temporary mild depression may be another (and some might have this go the other way and end up in better shape, but people are different). Others are stress at work or adjusting to a new job, health issues in the family, an injury or health issue that changes mobility for a while, lots of things. Some people really struggle with things like stress eating, for example.

    I have specifically said in this thread that there would be multiple conversations as this is going on about the changes, and about whether any effort would be applied to changing things in a positive direction or the other person would just continue to gain weight. Picking things out of context and then pretending that a change of 30 or more pounds happens in an extremely short period of time is a little disingenuous and seems like a concerted effort to paint me as a jerk.
    Now, of course, none of these things require one to gain weight, and I think many of the people I am talking about will eventually get a handle on it, but you seem to have very little willingness to let a partner be flawed, from what you've said here. If I had a partner who told me "I love you at 125, but 130 gets a warning and get to 141 and overweight, and blech, it's over," that wouldn't make me think I wanted to stay thin, I'd end the relationship now (even though I have no intentions of gaining weight).

    "Eventually" is a pretty loaded word. Does someone get a couple of months to reverse direction and show that they're making positive strides? Sure. Couple of years? No.

    While you have painted this whole scenario as playing out in a matter of days or even weeks so as to make me look bad, I'm also not willing to sit around and wait for "eventually" to turn into "never". There is a time to fish or cut bait.
    My dad is probably over a 25 BMI these days, not by a lot, but he's still extremely active for his age. My mom, not, because she's had health issues (not weight related). Her weight hasn't actually changed that much, but she's unable to move around nearly how she used to. If my dad decided that wasn't what he'd signed up for, she was a different person, I can't say I'd react positively. And if it were the reverse and my dad with the mobility issues and my mom without, and she left for that reason, I'd think that was bad too.

    But granted, parents.

    I don't judge people for ending a relationship that they are no longer happy in. It's not up to me to define the terms of a relationship between people who aren't me.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited April 2017
    heiliskrimsli wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    heiliskrimsli wrote: »
    You want to know what I think about partnership? Partnership doe snot mean one person gives u p what is important to them because the other one fundamentally changes who they are. If I started a relationship on the terms that I'm an active person, a normal weight person, someone who goes out and does things with this other person and then I completely change my lifestyle on them by quitting exercise, replacing all those mutually shared activities with couch surfing, and I gain a bunch of weight, I'm not the same person they committed to being with.

    Getting to a BMI of 25 or 26 -- and you said you'd warn them if the pants started getting tight, do it again if the pants stopped fitting, and out the door as soon as they were officially overweight -- does not mean "fundamentally changes who they are" or "completely changes lifestyle" or stops being an active person, though. It really does just seem purely physical. Which you've acknowledged in other posts, I think, and that's totally your choice and all.

    That kind of progression doesn't happen overnight. Or in a week. Or one month.

    Probably not. I didn't suggest it did.
    For me, some weight ups and downs (and other life ups and down) seem like things lots of people go through. A lot of people have talked about how they gained some weight due to temporary life circumstances. Pregnancy/new baby is one, lost job/temporary mild depression may be another (and some might have this go the other way and end up in better shape, but people are different). Others are stress at work or adjusting to a new job, health issues in the family, an injury or health issue that changes mobility for a while, lots of things. Some people really struggle with things like stress eating, for example.

    I have specifically said in this thread that there would be multiple conversations as this is going on about the changes, and about whether any effort would be applied to changing things in a positive direction or the other person would just continue to gain weight. Picking things out of context and then pretending that a change of 30 or more pounds happens in an extremely short period of time is a little disingenuous and seems like a concerted effort to paint me as a jerk.

    I'm BMI 22, and would be overweight with a gain of 15 lbs, roughly. In fact, isn't that the normal range, 30 lbs? So around the middle and it's 15 lbs or so -- let's say 10-20 lbs, depending.

    I think the idea that one stops being active and a fundamentally different person with that kind of gain is just wrong too. I've run a 10 min/mile marathon at 145 or so, done weeklong bike rides of 50-100 miles/day, stuff like that. (I don't have huge muscle mass, I was overweight.)

    So it's purely aesthetics we are talking about, I think.

    Anyway, I wouldn't consider 3 months or even a year an unreasonable time for the things I mentioned. Could I gain 5 lbs/month so 15 in 3 months? Warning at the end of the first month, talking to/second warning at the end of the second, out the door at the end of the third seemed to be exactly what you were saying.
    Now, of course, none of these things require one to gain weight, and I think many of the people I am talking about will eventually get a handle on it, but you seem to have very little willingness to let a partner be flawed, from what you've said here. If I had a partner who told me "I love you at 125, but 130 gets a warning and get to 141 and overweight, and blech, it's over," that wouldn't make me think I wanted to stay thin, I'd end the relationship now (even though I have no intentions of gaining weight).

    "Eventually" is a pretty loaded word. Does someone get a couple of months to reverse direction and show that they're making positive strides? Sure. Couple of years? No.

    This kind of attitude toward someone, as if they were a student or employee making an effort to turn things around, just seems really different than anything I can understand toward a partner, especially someone who was struggling.

    But like I said, your deal, and so long as you were completely upfront I think that's fair (just so you know, I'll give a warning or two, but BMI 25 and it's out the door). But this is what you are saying.
    While you have painted this whole scenario as playing out in a matter of days or even weeks so as to make me look bad, I'm also not willing to sit around and wait for "eventually" to turn into "never". There is a time to fish or cut bait.

    It's not to make you look bad. I'm trying to explain why you are getting the reaction you are. It just does sound really shocking to me, but it's your life, I don't care.
    My dad is probably over a 25 BMI these days, not by a lot, but he's still extremely active for his age. My mom, not, because she's had health issues (not weight related). Her weight hasn't actually changed that much, but she's unable to move around nearly how she used to. If my dad decided that wasn't what he'd signed up for, she was a different person, I can't say I'd react positively. And if it were the reverse and my dad with the mobility issues and my mom without, and she left for that reason, I'd think that was bad too.

    But granted, parents.

    I don't judge people for ending a relationship that they are no longer happy in. It's not up to me to define the terms of a relationship between people who aren't me. [/quote]

    Fair enough.

    If my dad left my mom (or vice versa) because of an illness (not one that led to terrible treatment, like an addiction, but one that made her less able to go out to do fun things and more helpless), I probably would judge.
  • Nixi3Knox
    Nixi3Knox Posts: 182 Member
    heiliskrimsli wrote: »
    Nixi3Knox wrote: »
    Perhaps these "deal breakers" should be disclosed UP FRONT.

    I have stated before in this thread that I do discuss deal breakers up front.

    Not just those related to fitness, activity, and attraction but a lot of things like religion and kids. This is not something that I would spring on a person after years of being together.

    My advice is not to YOU but to the OP. I you need to discuss yourself maybe start your own thread. The OP here does not say that it ever was or was not listed in some list of deal breakers at the start of the relationship.
  • jpoehls9025
    jpoehls9025 Posts: 471 Member
    I always tell my wife to let me know when its time to change workout methods (bulk, cut) I really depend on her criticism. It can be hard for me to adequately judge my own physique at times because I just don't see myself like others do.
  • STLBADGIRL
    STLBADGIRL Posts: 1,693 Member
    I believe the ones that talk about a long lasting relationship is totally correct that it is give and take...and there are life circumstances that occur that are so much bigger than weight...but I'm not sure if OP ever stated that she wanted to be in a long term relationship or marriage. If that is the case, would you have a different opinion on her views?
  • pinuplove
    pinuplove Posts: 12,871 Member
    @GottaBurnEmAll That's deep *kitten* about your assault and your mother's reaction. Thank you for sharing. I think this is a very important post for people to see and ponder. Humans are complicated creatures, and our relationships with others even more so.

    Agreed that I can't see myself being happy long-term with someone who placed stipulations such as have been described in this thread, but to each their own. Luckily, I don't have to!
  • STLBADGIRL
    STLBADGIRL Posts: 1,693 Member
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    pinuplove wrote: »
    There have been so.many.times my husband carried more than his fair share. On the flip side, there have been many times when I bore more than my share. That's marriage. That's life over decades throwing you curve-balls and one of you handling it better than the other for a while. That's commitment and love and all that other Hallmark Channel sappy garbage. I'm so freaking happy he never gave up on me when I wasn't pulling my weight (or piling on more than my share of the weight, as it were :wink: ).

    Yes, and that's how a long-standing relationship has to work.

    I find the questions of "well how long do you wait for someone to get their act together" in this thread particularly interesting because it's ... how to unpack this... I can't.

    I can't because there is the kid in me who remembers my mother shoving me out the door in the aftermath of my rape when I wasn't ready telling me it was time and that I needed to look for work. I was terrified to navigate the streets and bus routes. I don't know that I ever forgave her for pushing me out like that without getting me counseling.

    So I see shades of her selfishness in those types of questions. The "how long do you wait for someone else to get their act together" questions. Because her action was about her not being able to deal with my pain. And that made her action selfish. And love isn't selfish.

    Relationships are shifting landscapes and as you said, pinuplove, it's not all 50/50. A lot of times you have to be selfless while the other person marshals their resources and that can take time.

    If some other people have different types of relationships in mind, that is their prerogative, I guess, but I can't see how they'd be in any way fulfilling. They wouldn't be to me. We learn more when we give in a relationship and relationships grow deeper after weathering the rough patches.

    Wow, so sorry that this happened to you and also your mother's response to it. I'm at a lost for words.
  • LKArgh
    LKArgh Posts: 5,178 Member
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    pinuplove wrote: »
    There have been so.many.times my husband carried more than his fair share. On the flip side, there have been many times when I bore more than my share. That's marriage. That's life over decades throwing you curve-balls and one of you handling it better than the other for a while. That's commitment and love and all that other Hallmark Channel sappy garbage. I'm so freaking happy he never gave up on me when I wasn't pulling my weight (or piling on more than my share of the weight, as it were :wink: ).

    Yes, and that's how a long-standing relationship has to work.

    I find the questions of "well how long do you wait for someone to get their act together" in this thread particularly interesting because it's ... how to unpack this... I can't.

    I can't because there is the kid in me who remembers my mother shoving me out the door in the aftermath of my rape when I wasn't ready telling me it was time and that I needed to look for work. I was terrified to navigate the streets and bus routes. I don't know that I ever forgave her for pushing me out like that without getting me counseling.

    So I see shades of her selfishness in those types of questions. The "how long do you wait for someone else to get their act together" questions. Because her action was about her not being able to deal with my pain. And that made her action selfish. And love isn't selfish.

    Relationships are shifting landscapes and as you said, pinuplove, it's not all 50/50. A lot of times you have to be selfless while the other person marshals their resources and that can take time.

    If some other people have different types of relationships in mind, that is their prerogative, I guess, but I can't see how they'd be in any way fulfilling. They wouldn't be to me. We learn more when we give in a relationship and relationships grow deeper after weathering the rough patches.

    Getting a bit of topic, but we are all defined in some percentage by our past relationships, starting from childhood. Your past experience for example might make you far more tolerant and patient in a relationship. Having experienced the opposite in my own life (a couple of people very close to me pretty much doing nothing in their lives, DESPITE counseling), I would probably be far more impatient and more proactive. I am not saying that my attitude is better than yours, and I suspect that different reactions suit different situations. Plus we probably would all act different in different scenarios. But, since we do all have different experiences, have witnessed different outcomes etc, it is normal to have different attitudes and different expectations in a relationship.
  • missh1967
    missh1967 Posts: 661 Member
    edited April 2017
    aggelikik wrote: »
    Getting a bit of topic, but we are all defined in some percentage by our past relationships, starting from childhood. Your past experience for example might make you far more tolerant and patient in a relationship. Having experienced the opposite in my own life (a couple of people very close to me pretty much doing nothing in their lives, DESPITE counseling), I would probably be far more impatient and more proactive. I am not saying that my attitude is better than yours, and I suspect that different reactions suit different situations. Plus we probably would all act different in different scenarios. But, since we do all have different experiences, have witnessed different outcomes etc, it is normal to have different attitudes and different expectations in a relationship.

    I think this is key. Everyone has their proverbial "line in the sand" of how much and what they will or will not tolerate. That is often guided by experience, but certainly also preference and tolerance. I don't believe that one person's line makes him or her a saint, and I don't believe it makes the other person a.s.s.ho.l.e of the year.

    And when it comes to being so unhappy as to threaten one's own mental and physical health and the other person doesn't care enough to make some changes, well, something has to give.
  • SpotLighttt
    SpotLighttt Posts: 174 Member
    jenilla1 wrote: »
    This thread is kind of sad. :(

    It seems like most of the posts on this thread have devolved into people losing their minds because a certain poster has "more-stringent-than-average" relationship standards. Those standards may relax in time or they may not. But it's actually OK if someone else has deal-breakers that don't align with your values. It's not about you. It's their relationship, not yours.

    I think people are taking it way too personal, projecting their own feelings and experiences into the poster's love life, and making a lot of assumptions about the poster's character and life experience. We all have our own standards and that's great, because we're the ones who have to live with whatever we settle for. Don't feel bad for this person's partners. It sounds like they have been well-informed, willing participants in their relationships.

    There is a difference between sickness/disability (involuntary) and making the choice (voluntary) to just not take care of oneself. I myself would have a definite problem if my husband willingly let himself go to the point of obesity. But it wouldn't get to that point, because there would be an intervention. And I doubt it would even get that far, since it's not really in either of our natures to let that happen. And I would expect the same reaction from him if I let myself go, since we've both agreed that health and fitness is important to us as individuals and as a team. I can understand some normal weight gain (not obesity) and other changes with age, but putting effort into caring for oneself and at least trying to be the best version of yourself at every life stage and circumstance is an important value to me. I'm not ashamed of that. It's clearly not a value for everyone here, and that's OK, too.

    And no, I'm not young or a newlywed. I've been with my husband for nearly two decades. We're well into our 40's, and neither one of us has ever been overweight. With middle age, we both started creeping up into the upper range of healthy weight, so we came here to reverse the trend and have been successful in doing so. I don't think it's inevitable that people have to fall apart as they age, but I am well aware that "beauty fades" and people do get old.

    Personally, I think that natural, healthy aging is a beautiful thing. But I don't have to like or accept the idea of my partner or myself using our normal life experiences (like having kids or getting older) as an excuse to give up and fall apart. I had beautiful, healthy, active grandparents to role model this for me. Anything can happen - we're not in total control, but to purposely put yourself at risk when you can at least actively try to stay fit and healthy doesn't fly with me. I consider that to be pretty toxic behavior. And toxic behavior is kind of a deal breaker for me...

    There's no expectation of perfection or some delusion about staying the same forever. Everyone earns some battle scars along the way. But just because some people have divergent standards doesn't make them bad or wrong. It just makes them different.

    <3

    QFT
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Alatariel75 wrote: »
    I think also there is a huge gulf between hypothetical and actual. What you can say with utter conviction that you would not do if the situation arose, can be completely different to what you do do in circumstances where you get there.

    I think this is totally true.
This discussion has been closed.

Categories