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Should your S.O./Spouse have a say so if they feel you are too thin or too large?
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Wait! Scars are cool again?! Yay! I'm going to be a winner!I have the same opinion of the men of that generation. Growing old with grace and dignity. Every scar, every wrinkle is a badge of honor.
I probably have enough scars (ring and street confrontations) to make John Wayne look like James Stewart!
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?0 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Why do you make judgments about what type of people fat people are?
I judge that they are not compatible with me because we have different attitudes and lifestyles which do not result in a mutually beneficial romantic relationship.
If you think that makes me a bad person, you're entitled to your opinion.Decades long? Longer than 10 years? I don't think so.
What does that demonstrate?High irony coming from you after all you've said in this thread.
I have said repeatedly that other people have the right to define what they want out of a relationship for themselves, and have never told you that you are wrong or a bad person for not wanting the same things that I do.Fair enough. I wouldn't stay with someone who molested our children.
I just find that where you're drawing the line on your conditional love to be rather close to something superficial.
Superficial to you. Compatible lifestyles and that includes fitness and sex are not something I consider superficial.
The quotes get all messed up so I'm not going to bother, but I want to respond to you about the length of relationships and why it's clear to me why you've never been in a very long term relationship.
The superficial fades over time. You've made claims to not being young, but I doubt you're old and I doubt you've ever dealt with something like a major health crisis. The passage of time (long amounts of it) changes people and their perspective, and many years with someone changes the face of a relationship.
You do not speak like someone who has had the chance to live that experience.
Until you know why someone's relationships ended, you really shouldn't pass judgement about it. You've made a lot of assumptions about me, and most of them at the very least imply that I'm a pretty horrible person.
You have not walked in my shoes and don't know anywhere near enough about me to sit in judgment of my romantic history. I'm not sitting here judging you and yours, so please be somewhat respectful and back off.
It seems to me in several posts that you've stated you would end a relationship over your partners weight, which you would no longer find attractive. You've put your relationship deal breaker out there in response to a debate question. Thats your prerogative. Your perspective and your relationships. Thats cool. A few others have agreed with you. You are not alone.
I think others in relationships (some long term) are saying that after a period of time with someone (initially physically attracted to) they become much more than their weight or physical appearance. They have qualities and attributes that are still very attractive. Physical appearance isn't the main nor only reason they are attracted to a person.
But as I understand your posts qualities, personality and a history aren't important to you because you've stated several times if your partner becomes overweight and after the warnings you've issued and they don't change that you would end the relationship.
So in all honesty as I see it you are judging your partner on looks alone? Others are judging you because you go on looks alone. Is that a fair assesment? It seems fair to me.
I'm not trying to be antagonistic I just see both perspectives although I may not agree with one.
This explains exactly what I meant when I said that I was passing judgment on the other poster's statements.
I can only judge what has been said about her stance on relationships. I haven't made the same choices for my marriage and can't see my relationship having lasted 30 years if I had.
You've judged me as a person based upon your perception of my relationships as lesser because I haven't had a single relationship that lasted >30 years, but more than one relationship over a period of decades. You don't know how many, or their circumstances or duration, but you've already decided that I don't have the capacity for what you consider a real long-term relationship.
You actually know absolutely nothing about me other than that I've said significant weight gain is a deal breaker and that I consider a fulfilling sex life a necessary condition of a monogamous relationship, and from that you've made a sweeping judgment about my character and determined that none of my relationships have ever been as real as yours is.
I don't consider you superior or inferior to me in terms of relationships, just different. I'm sorry it doesn't seem the same from your direction.
I just read Gottaburns comment as HER relationship wouldn't have lasted 30 years if she took the same stance as you have. Honestly I can't imagine any relationship lasting very long based on looks alone. There is always someone out there thinner, prettier, more handsome, fitter...
Wouldn't you agree?
Who said my relationships are based on looks alone?
I said that sexual attraction is a necessary component for me. Not that it is the only component.
So when you say you would leave based on weight gain you also mean there are other reasons outside of their looks alone that you found unattractive?
When you say weight gain is a deal breaker that implies looks alone to me. Maybe I'm wrong?
Someone being attractive to me isn't enough to make a relationship, but someone being unattractive is enough to mean that there won't be one.
I don't know how else to break this down for you. It's necessary but not sufficient.
For what it's worth - I think we understand you. It's just... sort of hard to wrap our minds around.
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Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?
I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.1 -
JeepHair77 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Why do you make judgments about what type of people fat people are?
I judge that they are not compatible with me because we have different attitudes and lifestyles which do not result in a mutually beneficial romantic relationship.
If you think that makes me a bad person, you're entitled to your opinion.Decades long? Longer than 10 years? I don't think so.
What does that demonstrate?High irony coming from you after all you've said in this thread.
I have said repeatedly that other people have the right to define what they want out of a relationship for themselves, and have never told you that you are wrong or a bad person for not wanting the same things that I do.Fair enough. I wouldn't stay with someone who molested our children.
I just find that where you're drawing the line on your conditional love to be rather close to something superficial.
Superficial to you. Compatible lifestyles and that includes fitness and sex are not something I consider superficial.
The quotes get all messed up so I'm not going to bother, but I want to respond to you about the length of relationships and why it's clear to me why you've never been in a very long term relationship.
The superficial fades over time. You've made claims to not being young, but I doubt you're old and I doubt you've ever dealt with something like a major health crisis. The passage of time (long amounts of it) changes people and their perspective, and many years with someone changes the face of a relationship.
You do not speak like someone who has had the chance to live that experience.
Until you know why someone's relationships ended, you really shouldn't pass judgement about it. You've made a lot of assumptions about me, and most of them at the very least imply that I'm a pretty horrible person.
You have not walked in my shoes and don't know anywhere near enough about me to sit in judgment of my romantic history. I'm not sitting here judging you and yours, so please be somewhat respectful and back off.
It seems to me in several posts that you've stated you would end a relationship over your partners weight, which you would no longer find attractive. You've put your relationship deal breaker out there in response to a debate question. Thats your prerogative. Your perspective and your relationships. Thats cool. A few others have agreed with you. You are not alone.
I think others in relationships (some long term) are saying that after a period of time with someone (initially physically attracted to) they become much more than their weight or physical appearance. They have qualities and attributes that are still very attractive. Physical appearance isn't the main nor only reason they are attracted to a person.
But as I understand your posts qualities, personality and a history aren't important to you because you've stated several times if your partner becomes overweight and after the warnings you've issued and they don't change that you would end the relationship.
So in all honesty as I see it you are judging your partner on looks alone? Others are judging you because you go on looks alone. Is that a fair assesment? It seems fair to me.
I'm not trying to be antagonistic I just see both perspectives although I may not agree with one.
This explains exactly what I meant when I said that I was passing judgment on the other poster's statements.
I can only judge what has been said about her stance on relationships. I haven't made the same choices for my marriage and can't see my relationship having lasted 30 years if I had.
You've judged me as a person based upon your perception of my relationships as lesser because I haven't had a single relationship that lasted >30 years, but more than one relationship over a period of decades. You don't know how many, or their circumstances or duration, but you've already decided that I don't have the capacity for what you consider a real long-term relationship.
You actually know absolutely nothing about me other than that I've said significant weight gain is a deal breaker and that I consider a fulfilling sex life a necessary condition of a monogamous relationship, and from that you've made a sweeping judgment about my character and determined that none of my relationships have ever been as real as yours is.
I don't consider you superior or inferior to me in terms of relationships, just different. I'm sorry it doesn't seem the same from your direction.
I just read Gottaburns comment as HER relationship wouldn't have lasted 30 years if she took the same stance as you have. Honestly I can't imagine any relationship lasting very long based on looks alone. There is always someone out there thinner, prettier, more handsome, fitter...
Wouldn't you agree?
Who said my relationships are based on looks alone?
I said that sexual attraction is a necessary component for me. Not that it is the only component.
So when you say you would leave based on weight gain you also mean there are other reasons outside of their looks alone that you found unattractive?
When you say weight gain is a deal breaker that implies looks alone to me. Maybe I'm wrong?
Someone being attractive to me isn't enough to make a relationship, but someone being unattractive is enough to mean that there won't be one.
I don't know how else to break this down for you. It's necessary but not sufficient.
For what it's worth - I think we understand you. It's just... sort of hard to wrap our minds around.
summed up well0 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?
I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.
What if it's a positive thing in their life?3 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?
I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.
agreed. but yes if it is just because of weight. weight can be lost1 -
Many humans are not comfortable when confronted with hard truths from others that they do not want to consider in themselves.JeepHair77 wrote: »For what it's worth - I think we understand you. It's just... sort of hard to wrap our minds around.
Just sayin'5 -
WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?
I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.
What if it's a positive thing in their life?
Are you suggesting that in a relationship it's OK if one of the parties is fundamentally unhappy as long as the other person thinks its great?Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?
I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.
agreed. but yes if it is just because of weight. weight can be lost
And if after multiple conversations and months of time, it's not?
How long is long enough to wait for someone to get their life in order?
Many humans are not comfortable when confronted with hard truths from others that they do not want to consider in themselves.JeepHair77 wrote: »For what it's worth - I think we understand you. It's just... sort of hard to wrap our minds around.
Just sayin'
Just call me Captain Unpopular Opinion.5 -
Can I call you Ms. Captain, My Captain?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Just call me Captain Unpopular Opinion.
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OK... Now that I have your attention, let me requote the OP:
STLBADGIRL wrote: »Can we have a candid and respectful conversation about this subject? I read on here frequently that a S.O/spouse should love your regardless of your weight....but isn't a part of love being open and honest with a person?
I want to be clear....I don't think anyone should demand a person to gain or lose weight.
Candid and respectful debate can sometimes get lively, and that's totally okay. What isn't okay is to devolve into personal attacks or disrespect to entire groups of people. Debate another posters ideas rather than falling into personal swipes. Personal swipes can violate several guidelines, which I'm quoting below.1. No Attacks or Insults and No Reciprocation
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I know this is the debate section, however community guidelines are still enforced here.
Play nice.
Em
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Many humans are not comfortable when confronted with hard truths from others that they do not want to consider in themselves.JeepHair77 wrote: »For what it's worth - I think we understand you. It's just... sort of hard to wrap our minds around.
Just sayin'
I agree and stated this above.0 -
Many humans are not comfortable when confronted with hard truths from others that they do not want to consider in themselves.JeepHair77 wrote: »For what it's worth - I think we understand you. It's just... sort of hard to wrap our minds around.
Just sayin'
LOL! Yeah, I know the hard truth, believe me. I said myself back on page 2 or so that I actually DO recognize this as a hard truth in my own relationship - although jeez, even my husband would never put it in such point-blank terminology. (Or then again, maybe, on a semi-anonymous message board, he would.)
I think most of us, by virtue of being HERE, get that truth in some form or fashion. The part I've had trouble with from @heiliskrimsli is that context is missing from the analysis.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?
I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.
What if it's a positive thing in their life?
Are you suggesting that in a relationship it's OK if one of the parties is fundamentally unhappy as long as the other person thinks its great?
I am suggesting that a good relationship is a partnership, and often that can mean putting the needs of your partner above the needs of yourself. I am not saying that individuals don't have the right to be happy. But your black and white view of this seems focused solely on yourself, and that does not suggest that you view your relationships as a true partnership.
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WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?
I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.
What if it's a positive thing in their life?
Are you suggesting that in a relationship it's OK if one of the parties is fundamentally unhappy as long as the other person thinks its great?
I am suggesting that a good relationship is a partnership, and often that can mean putting the needs of your partner above the needs of yourself. I am not saying that individuals don't have the right to be happy. But your black and white view of this seems focused solely on yourself, and that does not suggest that you view your relationships as a true partnership.
^This. Particularly if the emphasis is on building a lasting relationship.
I will stand by my contention that the focus on things like sex and appearance (though they might be early on) without any consideration that things evolve over time and circumstances change and priorities shift over time and true partners with a commitment to a relationship work though these things is something that people with an eye on the fact that life could throw you a curve ball at any time don't focus on. Adaptability and a willingness to support is key to keeping a relationship going through changing circumstances.2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?
I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.
What if it's a positive thing in their life?
Are you suggesting that in a relationship it's OK if one of the parties is fundamentally unhappy as long as the other person thinks its great?
I am suggesting that a good relationship is a partnership, and often that can mean putting the needs of your partner above the needs of yourself. I am not saying that individuals don't have the right to be happy. But your black and white view of this seems focused solely on yourself, and that does not suggest that you view your relationships as a true partnership.
No one is obligated to sacrifice their own happiness to spend their lives toiling for someone else's happiness. You talk about partnership like the only partner with obligations is the one whose attraction is to a normal weight body type, but there is another side to that coin.
You want to know what I think about partnership? Partnership doe snot mean one person gives u p what is important to them because the other one fundamentally changes who they are. If I started a relationship on the terms that I'm an active person, a normal weight person, someone who goes out and does things with this other person and then I completely change my lifestyle on them by quitting exercise, replacing all those mutually shared activities with couch surfing, and I gain a bunch of weight, I'm not the same person they committed to being with.
That would be true if I became a compulsive gambler, a drug addict, converted to another religion, completely reversed my stance on having children, or came out as transgender and started on HRT.
Unless both partners are committed to making themselves a positive aspect of the relationship, it's not a partnership.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?
I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.
What if it's a positive thing in their life?
Are you suggesting that in a relationship it's OK if one of the parties is fundamentally unhappy as long as the other person thinks its great?
I am suggesting that a good relationship is a partnership, and often that can mean putting the needs of your partner above the needs of yourself. I am not saying that individuals don't have the right to be happy. But your black and white view of this seems focused solely on yourself, and that does not suggest that you view your relationships as a true partnership.
^This. Particularly if the emphasis is on building a lasting relationship.
I will stand by my contention that the focus on things like sex and appearance (though they might be early on) without any consideration that things evolve over time and circumstances change and priorities shift over time and true partners with a commitment to a relationship work though these things is something that people with an eye on the fact that life could throw you a curve ball at any time don't focus on. Adaptability and a willingness to support is key to keeping a relationship going through changing circumstances.
For you.
For you those things may not be important over time. I've been through the dead bedroom. I'm not doing it again. I suppose another fundamental difference of opinion here is that I don't think that keeping a relationship going once it's no longer fulfilling is a positive thing. I know you view that as a failure and not a real relationship, but we don't all have to have the same metrics for our lives, and as long as I don't lie to a partner about what I find important, who are you to say that my priorities are wrong?5 -
There have been so.many.times my husband carried more than his fair share. On the flip side, there have been many times when I bore more than my share. That's marriage. That's life over decades throwing you curve-balls and one of you handling it better than the other for a while. That's commitment and love and all that other Hallmark Channel sappy garbage. I'm so freaking happy he never gave up on me when I wasn't pulling my weight (or piling on more than my share of the weight, as it were
). 14 -
There have been so.many.times my husband carried more than his fair share. On the flip side, there have been many times when I bore more than my share. That's marriage. That's life over decades throwing you curve-balls and one of you handling it better than the other for a while. That's commitment and love and all that other Hallmark Channel sappy garbage. I'm so freaking happy he never gave up on me when I wasn't pulling my weight (or piling on more than my share of the weight, as it were ).
It's because he sees you as something more than your weight alone. He sees the good qualities that are worth it to him to maintain that relationship. Things like love, commitment, strength. Those things in of themselves can be very attractive to me!6 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »There is a difference in demanding that a person lose weight and in in giving an opinion. Telling the other person that you feel they should make this kind of change because you are concerned for their health or because they are not as attractive to you as they used to be does not necessarily equate to not loving them anymore. However telling someone to lose or gain weight or the relationship will end is out of line. So is withholding love and/or affection, cheating, berating and harshly criticizing or other mental/emotional abuse due to the person's physical appearance. If someone has taken it upon themselves to use the other person's physical appearance as their reason for their poor behavior then there is a problem aside from physical appearance that needs to unearthed.
No one is owed a relationship and everyone is entitled to define their own deal-breakers. If you don't like someone else's deal-breakers, don't get into a relationship with them.
If a relationship is making one of the people in it unhappy, they have every right to leave.
Perhaps these "deal breakers" should be disclosed UP FRONT.1 -
Perhaps these "deal breakers" should be disclosed UP FRONT.
I have stated before in this thread that I do discuss deal breakers up front.
Not just those related to fitness, activity, and attraction but a lot of things like religion and kids. This is not something that I would spring on a person after years of being together.7
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