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Should your S.O./Spouse have a say so if they feel you are too thin or too large?
Replies
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STLBADGIRL wrote: »I believe the ones that talk about a long lasting relationship is totally correct that it is give and take...and there are life circumstances that occur that are so much bigger than weight...but I'm not sure if OP ever stated that she wanted to be in a long term relationship or marriage. If that is the case, would you have a different opinion on her views?
Aren't you OP? ;-) Don't give up your own thread!
With respect to the more controversial statements in the thread, I do feel differently about the topic (not referring to any poster) depending on whether it's a long term relationship or not. I don't have a particularly narrow weight limit for attractiveness (I wouldn't stop finding someone attractive if they were slightly overweight or went from, I dunno, 170 to 200), but I probably wouldn't be attracted to someone morbidly obese. But it also all depends on how the relationship comes about -- for me when I know and care about someone (or love them) I tend to see them through that lens, and someone who was just okay becomes very attractive or even sexy to me, potentially. (It also happens the other way, unfortunately, as I've stopped finding a partner attractive due to other issues with the relationship.) For me, though, purely physical things are going to be much more important the less I know the person (I have never computer dated, but from people I know who do or have, they are much more apt to see things as a definite no or disqualifier -- not only looks -- that wouldn't be with someone they knew already before dating, I think). But of course some people you are attracted to, and some you just are not.
Since people change over time, I think the focus on fitting exactly the physical ideal that you might have almost has to be flexible -- if my physical ideal were the same as when I was 22, I'd be in trouble, and I sure don't look exactly the same as when I was 22, and probably wouldn't be attractive to someone who was into 22 year old women.
To answer the original question, yes, I think it's fair game to talk to a partner about weight gain, although how to do it can be a minefield, depending on the person and the circumstances. Talking to a partner about major life changes (stopped being active, spending all the time doing something sedentary instead, or even working much greater hours than before -- usually there are broader issues than "just became different" or "just became lazy"). I also will admit that if I thought the weight gain was the symptom of some kind of lack of caring or huge change in personality somehow that would make a difference (but then there would also be other issues in the relationship, it wouldn't really be just about the weight gain). I just don't assume that's probably the issue -- I see it much more likely to relate to something to which I'd be much more empathetic, and that's how I'm seeing it.
But sure, if someone said "I'm just in this for the fun, sex, and companionship and if things get not fun or you stop being hot, it's over" I see that as fair warning and a different thing than "in sickness and in health," etc. But for me it would seem wrong to ditch a partner because he decided to (say) change careers from a really lucrative one to a lower paying but more satisfying one, because he aged and wasn't the sexy young thing he was at 25, OR because he struggled with his weight and gained some. (And yes, I do feel judgy about people who would leave for these reasons, although I wouldn't say it to them, as not my business and in reality there might be more going on.) Yes, I think it's possible to lose weight, but I went through a long phase where because of other things in my life I couldn't get my head into losing or care enough, and I'd be understanding of that in someone else. Once in a committed relationship I would not personally stop finding someone attractive because of some weight gain (are there limits to this? maybe, but I think it would always be combined with other things, changes, frustrations), and if someone told me their love was conditional and would go away if I gained 30 or even 50 lbs, I would see that as not true love and want to know upfront and stay away.
I do think there's some degree of personal experience influencing this, as someone else said. There seems to be an assumption by some that the weight gain would result from "just not caring anymore" or major personality changes. I am not assuming that as part of it and to me it doesn't seem likely to be part of it (and this also has not been an experience I have had, so that could be relevant).2 -
JeepHair77 wrote: »
Many humans are not comfortable when confronted with hard truths from others that they do not want to consider in themselves.JeepHair77 wrote: »For what it's worth - I think we understand you. It's just... sort of hard to wrap our minds around.
Just sayin'
LOL! Yeah, I know the hard truth, believe me. I said myself back on page 2 or so that I actually DO recognize this as a hard truth in my own relationship - although jeez, even my husband would never put it in such point-blank terminology. (Or then again, maybe, on a semi-anonymous message board, he would.)
I think most of us, by virtue of being HERE, get that truth in some form or fashion. The part I've had trouble with from @heiliskrimsli is that context is missing from the analysis.
Honestly, that would be the deal breaker for me. Is the inability to have a hard truthful conversation.
That's the core of relationship.1 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »I believe the ones that talk about a long lasting relationship is totally correct that it is give and take...and there are life circumstances that occur that are so much bigger than weight...but I'm not sure if OP ever stated that she wanted to be in a long term relationship or marriage. If that is the case, would you have a different opinion on her views?
Aren't you the OP?
In any regard, the key to any relationship is that the couple have similar goals in mind and ability to work towards them together, whatever they might be.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »But of course some people you are attracted to, and some you just are not.
And here I am, being judged and called all manner of horrible things because I have said that I wouldn't stay in a monogamous relationship with someone if I were no longer attracted to them.Since people change over time, I think the focus on fitting exactly the physical ideal that you might have almost has to be flexible -- if my physical ideal were the same as when I was 22, I'd be in trouble, and I sure don't look exactly the same as when I was 22, and probably wouldn't be attractive to someone who was into 22 year old women.
Aging is different than becoming overweight/obese. Becoming overweight or obese is not just part of getting older that is unavoidable.But sure, if someone said "I'm just in this for the fun, sex, and companionship and if things get not fun or you stop being hot, it's over" I see that as fair warning and a different thing than "in sickness and in health," etc.
Placing importance on sex in a relationship does not mean the relationship is trivial.But for me it would seem wrong to ditch a partner because he decided to (say) change careers from a really lucrative one to a lower paying but more satisfying one,
That depends on whether or not it was discussed or just "Surprise, I quit my six figure income job to make 10$ an hour at the burger joint."because he aged and wasn't the sexy young thing he was at 25,
The only way to avoid aging is to die young.OR because he struggled with his weight and gained some. (And yes, I do feel judgy about people who would leave for these reasons, although I wouldn't say it to them, as not my business and in reality there might be more going on.)
Weight gain is controllable. And as far as saying it to them, you are in this thread.Yes, I think it's possible to lose weight, but I went through a long phase where because of other things in my life I couldn't get my head into losing or care enough, and I'd be understanding of that in someone else. Once in a committed relationship I would not personally stop finding someone attractive because of some weight gain (are there limits to this? maybe, but I think it would always be combined with other things, changes, frustrations), and if someone told me their love was conditional and would go away if I gained 30 or even 50 lbs, I would see that as not true love and want to know upfront and stay away.
I didn't decide what I am and am not physically attracted to through conscious will, and I can't force myself to be attracted to someone if it's not there. Someone I'm in a relationship with could become unattractive physically, and for me there's no overriding that no matter how much I love them. At that point, when I no longer look at them and have any interest in having sex with them, it's no longer that type of relationship. Even if I love them. If that aspect isn't there, it's over.I do think there's some degree of personal experience influencing this, as someone else said. There seems to be an assumption by some that the weight gain would result from "just not caring anymore" or major personality changes. I am not assuming that as part of it and to me it doesn't seem likely to be part of it (and this also has not been an experience I have had, so that could be relevant).
Weight gain is the result of eating more than one is burning. It's not some inevitable, unavoidable, mysterious process. Excessive eating is no different than excessive drinking or excessive drug use. If someone is not willing to fix that problem, I am not willing to be in a relationship with them.3 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »But of course some people you are attracted to, and some you just are not.
And here I am, being judged and called all manner of horrible things because I have said that I wouldn't stay in a monogamous relationship with someone if I were no longer attracted to them.
I am not judging you.
I actually thought you were trying to be provocative, since you made such a point of saying, first, if he gets to overweight (25 BMI) and doesn't fix it in a couple months, out the door. That seems like a really hard line for what is attractive or not for someone you (in this hypothetical) love, but obviously if that's what you see a relationship as about and those are your hard lines about what's attractive, that's fine, it's your life.
I actually don't think you'd really be so hard and fast about it in a real situation, but that's just based on my assumptions about people, I don't know you or, I suppose, have any reason to doubt it. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
You also made a point of disagreeing with those saying health was different, you wouldn't kick someone out if health made sex impossible, and said you would, unless there was an arrangement that you could have health elsewhere. So again, I think you are at least trying to be provocative in saying things that of course a lot of people are going to think is a wrong way to treat a partner.Since people change over time, I think the focus on fitting exactly the physical ideal that you might have almost has to be flexible -- if my physical ideal were the same as when I was 22, I'd be in trouble, and I sure don't look exactly the same as when I was 22, and probably wouldn't be attractive to someone who was into 22 year old women.
Aging is different than becoming overweight/obese. Becoming overweight or obese is not just part of getting older that is unavoidable.
Of course, but I don't see how this makes it different based on what specifically you have said. If you aren't attracted to old people, and someone gets old.
I also don't think people are always as in control of themselves as you seem to demand. Sometimes for life reasons people gain weight. Yes, in theory, that is controllable -- physically, it is. Mentally, I don't think it always is, and can be a struggle -- like I said before, I am not likely to see it as someone being thoughtless and just not caring. With the people I know it's more about dealing with the mentality of it. People often aren't perfect and don't act in the ways that I think they should or that would be the absolute best (I procrastinate badly and make plans not to, but keep doing it, for just one example). I personally react to stress and bad things in my life, often, by eating too much and gaining weight. I'm working on that, don't plan to gain weight again, but would tend to be empathetic to this. You seem very much to see gaining weight as something that makes someone a bad person (which puzzles me in someone who has been fat, but oh well), and is an unforgivable sin, essentially. It's just a different approach which is coloring this.
I also can't see finding someone attractive at BMI 24 and then completely not attractive 30 lbs later, if he was someone I shared all those other relationship things with, and was in love with, and found his personality attractive and sexy and so on, but people are different. To me, the physical perception I have of people just varies so much based on my feelings about them, connection with them, knowledge of the personality, so on. (And thank goodness, because of aging.)But sure, if someone said "I'm just in this for the fun, sex, and companionship and if things get not fun or you stop being hot, it's over" I see that as fair warning and a different thing than "in sickness and in health," etc.
Placing importance on sex in a relationship does not mean the relationship is trivial.
Important on sex, no. That's not what I said. I stand by what I said.But for me it would seem wrong to ditch a partner because he decided to (say) change careers from a really lucrative one to a lower paying but more satisfying one,
That depends on whether or not it was discussed or just "Surprise, I quit my six figure income job to make 10$ an hour at the burger joint."
Yes, of course, there's context. One is changing who the person is or showing disrespect to me or the relationship (or there's something way more going on, because in reality who would do that?), the other is simply changing a superficial element that I might have liked (having more money). If the love for the person is dependent on him having a certain salary, yeah, I think there's something wrong with that. If the issue is that certain qualities that make him compatible with you (being ambitious, interested in his job, whatever), then that's not so.
If someone goes from interested in health and activity and doing stuff to wanting to sit around eating chips and playing video games and gains weight, then I understand feeling like the person isn't the same person. In my version of this story I'm assuming depression or something and feeling more empathetic, like the right response isn't "lose weight, you look terrible," but again it relates to personal experience, I am sure. But absent something being wrong, I don't think people fundamentally change in the drastic way proposed and I also think the relationship problem isn't really the weight, but the behavior. I'm much more able to understand finding someone unattractive (especially if we aren't talking a temporary thing in a long term relationship) because he just sits around and seems to have no interest in anything and so on, and also gains weight, sure, but there the issue seems much broader than putting on 15-20 lbs and ending up technically overweight.OR because he struggled with his weight and gained some. (And yes, I do feel judgy about people who would leave for these reasons, although I wouldn't say it to them, as not my business and in reality there might be more going on.)
Weight gain is controllable. And as far as saying it to them, you are in this thread.
Right, but it's not a real situation, we are talking theoretically. You went out of your way to state what you knew would be some pretty controversial opinions, so I think the "it's unfair to have negative responses to them" thing is sort of ridiculous.
I don't comment when people post about their actual marriage issues, because I think there's always more to it and none of my business.Yes, I think it's possible to lose weight, but I went through a long phase where because of other things in my life I couldn't get my head into losing or care enough, and I'd be understanding of that in someone else. Once in a committed relationship I would not personally stop finding someone attractive because of some weight gain (are there limits to this? maybe, but I think it would always be combined with other things, changes, frustrations), and if someone told me their love was conditional and would go away if I gained 30 or even 50 lbs, I would see that as not true love and want to know upfront and stay away.
I didn't decide what I am and am not physically attracted to through conscious will, and I can't force myself to be attracted to someone if it's not there. Someone I'm in a relationship with could become unattractive physically, and for me there's no overriding that no matter how much I love them. At that point, when I no longer look at them and have any interest in having sex with them, it's no longer that type of relationship. Even if I love them. If that aspect isn't there, it's over.
I can't say I wouldn't lose interesting in having sex with someone who gained 100 lbs or something, it's never happened. (Depending on the relationship I might still feel like that wasn't adequate reason to leave them, just like I wouldn't leave someone for being depressed even if the depression made sex/physical attraction impossible. I just think that in a relationship like marriage that is wrong. But that's my view, not saying you need to share it, and I wouldn't judge.) But the idea that attraction for someone you love and perhaps have shared a life with and have children with is so contingent that it goes away if he becomes slightly overweight is again something that I just can't get my head around. It does read to me as akin to trading in the spouse for a younger model, that degree of superficiality. I really don't understand it. Attraction is one thing (and important), but it being so tied to a specific physical appearance despite all else seems odd to me.
But yes, people are different.I do think there's some degree of personal experience influencing this, as someone else said. There seems to be an assumption by some that the weight gain would result from "just not caring anymore" or major personality changes. I am not assuming that as part of it and to me it doesn't seem likely to be part of it (and this also has not been an experience I have had, so that could be relevant).
Weight gain is the result of eating more than one is burning. It's not some inevitable, unavoidable, mysterious process. Excessive eating is no different than excessive drinking or excessive drug use. If someone is not willing to fix that problem, I am not willing to be in a relationship with them.
Human beings are not machines. Weight gain and loss are simple processes, but not always easy. People fail to act as effectively as they might in all kinds of ways and in all areas of their life, and I don't see pulling out weight as the one area where weakness is unforgivable, which is what you seem to be doing here. (But of course we haven't talked about other areas, so maybe that's not the case.)6 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I actually thought you were trying to be provocative, since you made such a point of saying, first, if he gets to overweight (25 BMI) and doesn't fix it in a couple months, out the door. That seems like a really hard line for what is attractive or not for someone you (in this hypothetical) love, but obviously if that's what you see a relationship as about and those are your hard lines about what's attractive, that's fine, it's your life.
May seem like a "really hard line" to you, but for it to even reach that point in my relationship there would have already been a lot of conversations about the issue.I actually don't think you'd really be so hard and fast about it in a real situation, but that's just based on my assumptions about people, I don't know you or, I suppose, have any reason to doubt it. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
What you want to be true is not what is.You also made a point of disagreeing with those saying health was different, you wouldn't kick someone out if health made sex impossible, and said you would, unless there was an arrangement that you could have health elsewhere. So again, I think you are at least trying to be provocative in saying things that of course a lot of people are going to think is a wrong way to treat a partner.
I can assure you I am not merely "trying to be provocative" as that would be trolling. I will assume you did not mean to accuse me of trolling.
My opinions are what they are. There are clearly people here who disagree with them to the point of making character judgments about me because of them. Ultimately, I do not consider these opinions to be character flaws.Of course, but I don't see how this makes it different based on what specifically you have said. If you aren't attracted to old people, and someone gets old.
Have I ever at any point said that I am specifically not attracted to people because of age?I also don't think people are always as in control of themselves as you seem to demand. Sometimes for life reasons people gain weight. Yes, in theory, that is controllable -- physically, it is. Mentally, I don't think it always is, and can be a struggle -- like I said before, I am not likely to see it as someone being thoughtless and just not caring. With the people I know it's more about dealing with the mentality of it. People often aren't perfect and don't act in the ways that I think they should or that would be the absolute best (I procrastinate badly and make plans not to, but keep doing it, for just one example). I personally react to stress and bad things in my life, often, by eating too much and gaining weight. I'm working on that, don't plan to gain weight again, but would tend to be empathetic to this. You seem very much to see gaining weight as something that makes someone a bad person (which puzzles me in someone who has been fat, but oh well), and is an unforgivable sin, essentially. It's just a different approach which is coloring this.
Clearly we would not be compatible. That doesn't make me wrong to place the same level of expectation of having one's act together that I have placed upon myself. I don't expect perfect, but I do have a high standard for a partner.
I do consider having been fat to be a failure of me as a person. I have corrected that failure. I will not allow it to happen again.I also can't see finding someone attractive at BMI 24 and then completely not attractive 30 lbs later, if he was someone I shared all those other relationship things with, and was in love with, and found his personality attractive and sexy and so on, but people are different. To me, the physical perception I have of people just varies so much based on my feelings about them, connection with them, knowledge of the personality, so on. (And thank goodness, because of aging.)
Thirty pounds over a BMI of 24 is borderline obese, which would definitely be physically unattractive to me. Even at a BMI of 24, most people unless they are very serious weight lifters and have a low body fat percentage are not really what I'm looking for, either.
But to be honest, attraction is already lessening as they're approaching BMI 24. It's not a light switch, it's a gradient.Important on sex, no. That's not what I said. I stand by what I said.
What you said was:"I'm just in this for the fun, sex, and companionship and if things get not fun or you stop being hot, it's over"
You at least very heavily implied that I am not capable of actually loving someone and that my relationships are trivial.Right, but it's not a real situation, we are talking theoretically. You went out of your way to state what you knew would be some pretty controversial opinions, so I think the "it's unfair to have negative responses to them" thing is sort of ridiculous.
I'm not speaking theoretically at all.I can't say I wouldn't lose interesting in having sex with someone who gained 100 lbs or something, it's never happened. (Depending on the relationship I might still feel like that wasn't adequate reason to leave them, just like I wouldn't leave someone for being depressed even if the depression made sex/physical attraction impossible. I just think that in a relationship like marriage that is wrong. But that's my view, not saying you need to share it, and I wouldn't judge.) But the idea that attraction for someone you love and perhaps have shared a life with and have children with is so contingent that it goes away if he becomes slightly overweight is again something that I just can't get my head around. It does read to me as akin to trading in the spouse for a younger model, that degree of superficiality. I really don't understand it. Attraction is one thing (and important), but it being so tied to a specific physical appearance despite all else seems odd to me.
Why does that seem odd? Attraction as a physical thing is built into the human animal by evolution. We're wired to respond sexually to individuals that present a healthy image.Human beings are not machines. Weight gain and loss are simple processes, but not always easy. People fail to act as effectively as they might in all kinds of ways and in all areas of their life, and I don't see pulling out weight as the one area where weakness is unforgivable, which is what you seem to be doing here. (But of course we haven't talked about other areas, so maybe that's not the case.)
It's not the only area in reality. It's just the only one being discussed in this thread.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Perhaps these "deal breakers" should be disclosed UP FRONT.
I have stated before in this thread that I do discuss deal breakers up front.
Not just those related to fitness, activity, and attraction but a lot of things like religion and kids. This is not something that I would spring on a person after years of being together.
My advice is not to YOU but to the OP. I you need to discuss yourself maybe start your own thread. The OP here does not say that it ever was or was not listed in some list of deal breakers at the start of the relationship.
You quoted me. I thought you were responding to me. It's a reasonable conclusion.jpoehls9025 wrote: »I always tell my wife to let me know when its time to change workout methods (bulk, cut) I really depend on her criticism. It can be hard for me to adequately judge my own physique at times because I just don't see myself like others do.
I appreciate that kind of honest criticism from a partner. I find it motivating, personally, and it is usually part of being with someone who values the same things that I do. Doubly so if it means being active together.
I was responding to YOU as it is YOU who quoted ME first. You seem to be on a quoting an d debating bender. Who has this kind of time to argue so extensively? Please go find something else to do.2 -
This thread is kind of sad.
It seems like most of the posts on this thread have devolved into people losing their minds because a certain poster has "more-stringent-than-average" relationship standards. Those standards may relax in time or they may not. But it's actually OK if someone else has deal-breakers that don't align with your values. It's not about you. It's their relationship, not yours.
I think people are taking it way too personal, projecting their own feelings and experiences into the poster's love life, and making a lot of assumptions about the poster's character and life experience. We all have our own standards and that's great, because we're the ones who have to live with whatever we settle for. Don't feel bad for this person's partners. It sounds like they have been well-informed, willing participants in their relationships.
There is a difference between sickness/disability (involuntary) and making the choice (voluntary) to just not take care of oneself. I myself would have a definite problem if my husband willingly let himself go to the point of obesity. But it wouldn't get to that point, because there would be an intervention. And I doubt it would even get that far, since it's not really in either of our natures to let that happen. And I would expect the same reaction from him if I let myself go, since we've both agreed that health and fitness is important to us as individuals and as a team. I can understand some normal weight gain (not obesity) and other changes with age, but putting effort into caring for oneself and at least trying to be the best version of yourself at every life stage and circumstance is an important value to me. I'm not ashamed of that. It's clearly not a value for everyone here, and that's OK, too.
And no, I'm not young or a newlywed. I've been with my husband for nearly two decades. We're well into our 40's, and neither one of us has ever been overweight. With middle age, we both started creeping up into the upper range of healthy weight, so we came here to reverse the trend and have been successful in doing so. I don't think it's inevitable that people have to fall apart as they age, but I am well aware that "beauty fades" and people do get old.
Personally, I think that natural, healthy aging is a beautiful thing. But I don't have to like or accept the idea of my partner or myself using our normal life experiences (like having kids or getting older) as an excuse to give up and fall apart. I had beautiful, healthy, active grandparents to role model this for me. Anything can happen - we're not in total control, but to purposely put yourself at risk when you can at least actively try to stay fit and healthy doesn't fly with me. I consider that to be pretty toxic behavior. And toxic behavior is kind of a deal breaker for me...
There's no expectation of perfection or some delusion about staying the same forever. Everyone earns some battle scars along the way. But just because some people have divergent standards doesn't make them bad or wrong. It just makes them different.
Unfortunately I am limited to selecting one, so it's a toss up between insightful and awesome.
This thread has been an interesting display of projection.6 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »I believe the ones that talk about a long lasting relationship is totally correct that it is give and take...and there are life circumstances that occur that are so much bigger than weight...but I'm not sure if OP ever stated that she wanted to be in a long term relationship or marriage. If that is the case, would you have a different opinion on her views?
Aren't you OP? ;-) Don't give up your own thread!
-Yes, I am and don't know where the hell that came from :0 I'm going to blame it on a long day.....lol that's funny.
To answer the original question, yes, I think it's fair game to talk to a partner about weight gain, although how to do it can be a minefield, depending on the person and the circumstances. Talking to a partner about major life changes (stopped being active, spending all the time doing something sedentary instead, or even working much greater hours than before -- usually there are broader issues than "just became different" or "just became lazy"). I also will admit that if I thought the weight gain was the symptom of some kind of lack of caring or huge change in personality somehow that would make a difference (but then there would also be other issues in the relationship, it wouldn't really be just about the weight gain). I just don't assume that's probably the issue -- I see it much more likely to relate to something to which I'd be much more empathetic, and that's how I'm seeing it.
-I agree with this.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »I believe the ones that talk about a long lasting relationship is totally correct that it is give and take...and there are life circumstances that occur that are so much bigger than weight...but I'm not sure if OP ever stated that she wanted to be in a long term relationship or marriage. If that is the case, would you have a different opinion on her views?
Aren't you the OP? -Yes, clearly a mess up on my part....lol and smh.
In any regard, the key to any relationship is that the couple have similar goals in mind and ability to work towards them together, whatever they might be.
I totally agree.
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »May seem like a "really hard line" to you, but for it to even reach that point in my relationship there would have already been a lot of conversations about the issue.
So (using my own weight) someone you love and have a longstanding relationship with goes from 125 (BMI 22) to 130 over the course of a year (been a stressful year), you complain, someone goes from 130 to 135 over the course of the next year (work has been terrible, lots of long hours, not as much working out, but still active and interested in outdoor stuff you like to do together), you complain, say clothes aren't fitting. Someone goes from 135 to 140 over the next 6 months, you say this is getting disgusting, if this doesn't turn around in 2 months (the time you gave before), it's over. Person stays around the low 140s (BMI 25, so overweight for me), refocuses on working out, but says she doesn't feel like dieting yet with everything else going on and you say "it's over." (I realize from what you said that this likely is a man, or might be, anyway, but I know the numbers for my own height best).
That's what you said you'd do, not some unfair hypothetical I made up.
I think it's your right to have that approach, of course. To me it isn't consistent with a real commitment to the person as a person or a relationship, and so -- to make sense of it or because I don't believe you are probably really as superficial as that sounds to me -- that you are assuming there must be more going on or a personality change that goes beyond what I am presuming.
YOU are the one who brought up that you would kick someone to the curb if they got overweight despite warnings from you.You also made a point of disagreeing with those saying health was different, you wouldn't kick someone out if health made sex impossible, and said you would, unless there was an arrangement that you could have health elsewhere. So again, I think you are at least trying to be provocative in saying things that of course a lot of people are going to think is a wrong way to treat a partner.
I can assure you I am not merely "trying to be provocative" as that would be trolling. I will assume you did not mean to accuse me of trolling.
Trolling is making stuff up. I think you made a point of being really in your face with an opinion you knew lots of people would find disagreeable, because you seemed to want to discuss/debate it or let people know how you felt. So getting upset that people have the expected reaction seems odd. Yes, lots of people will judge (whether they admit it or not) dumping a longterm partner because of hitting an overweight BMI.Of course, but I don't see how this makes it different based on what specifically you have said. If you aren't attracted to old people, and someone gets old.
Have I ever at any point said that I am specifically not attracted to people because of age?
The logic is the same. If you were repulsed by older men (even age appropriate ones) or older women, say, or found them simply not attractive. If it's fine to dump a spouse because he or she gets to a BMI that is overweight, even with no other changes, since that made him/her unattractive in your eyes, why not (hypothetically) someone saying the same about partners over 35?I do consider having been fat to be a failure of me as a person. I have corrected that failure. I will not allow it to happen again.
You have posts from just a few months ago putting you at a BMI of around 24, if memory serves. I get you are still losing, but if that's right, it can't have been that long ago that you were over 25 (or over 24, which you are now saying is an issue). That's part of what puzzles me here:
As you just said:But to be honest, attraction is already lessening as they're approaching BMI 24. It's not a light switch, it's a gradient.Right, but it's not a real situation, we are talking theoretically. You went out of your way to state what you knew would be some pretty controversial opinions, so I think the "it's unfair to have negative responses to them" thing is sort of ridiculous.
I'm not speaking theoretically at all.
Unless you've actually dumped a longterm partner for hitting 25 BMI, yes, you are.1 -
So I've read the last 100+ posts and to be honest I don't quite see the point of this argument continuing.
It's just going around in circles. If you don't like what someone else deems to be a deal-breaker in a relationship, that's fine, but your opinion won't change theirs. I feel like everything's been said that can be and this isn't a very constructive conversation at this point.
Possibly. But part of growth as a person is the ability to consider opposing viewpoints and, while not necessarily agreeing with them, be able to say 'Hmm, that's an interesting way to look at it, and it appears to work for you so there must be some merit to your way of thinking.' Your (collective you, not you specifically) horizons may be expanded just a teeny bit more by way of a spirited debate
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So I've read the last 100+ posts and to be honest I don't quite see the point of this argument continuing.
It's just going around in circles. If you don't like what someone else deems to be a deal-breaker in a relationship, that's fine, but your opinion won't change theirs. I feel like everything's been said that can be and this isn't a very constructive conversation at this point.
Possibly. But part of growth as a person is the ability to consider opposing viewpoints and, while not necessarily agreeing with them, be able to say 'Hmm, that's an interesting way to look at it, and it appears to work for you so there must be some merit to your way of thinking.' Your (collective you, not you specifically) horizons may be expanded just a teeny bit more by way of a spirited debate
I agree with this and I am a personal witness to this. Not to say that it is going to happen here, but to others that pass through and reading it may.
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So I've read the last 100+ posts and to be honest I don't quite see the point of this argument continuing.
It's just going around in circles. If you don't like what someone else deems to be a deal-breaker in a relationship, that's fine, but your opinion won't change theirs. I feel like everything's been said that can be and this isn't a very constructive conversation at this point.
Possibly. But part of growth as a person is the ability to consider opposing viewpoints and, while not necessarily agreeing with them, be able to say 'Hmm, that's an interesting way to look at it, and it appears to work for you so there must be some merit to your way of thinking.' Your (collective you, not you specifically) horizons may be expanded just a teeny bit more by way of a spirited debate
When it comes to physical attraction and romantic relationships, I seriously doubt anyone ever in human history felt that chemistry was there based on a debate or logical arguments!2 -
So I've read the last 100+ posts and to be honest I don't quite see the point of this argument continuing.
It's just going around in circles. If you don't like what someone else deems to be a deal-breaker in a relationship, that's fine, but your opinion won't change theirs. I feel like everything's been said that can be and this isn't a very constructive conversation at this point.
Possibly. But part of growth as a person is the ability to consider opposing viewpoints and, while not necessarily agreeing with them, be able to say 'Hmm, that's an interesting way to look at it, and it appears to work for you so there must be some merit to your way of thinking.' Your (collective you, not you specifically) horizons may be expanded just a teeny bit more by way of a spirited debate
When it comes to physical attraction and romantic relationships, I seriously doubt anyone ever in human history felt that chemistry was there based on a debate or logical arguments!
This thread isn't just about chemistry and romantic relationships.1 -
So I've read the last 100+ posts and to be honest I don't quite see the point of this argument continuing.
It's just going around in circles. If you don't like what someone else deems to be a deal-breaker in a relationship, that's fine, but your opinion won't change theirs. I feel like everything's been said that can be and this isn't a very constructive conversation at this point.
Possibly. But part of growth as a person is the ability to consider opposing viewpoints and, while not necessarily agreeing with them, be able to say 'Hmm, that's an interesting way to look at it, and it appears to work for you so there must be some merit to your way of thinking.' Your (collective you, not you specifically) horizons may be expanded just a teeny bit more by way of a spirited debate
When it comes to physical attraction and romantic relationships, I seriously doubt anyone ever in human history felt that chemistry was there based on a debate or logical arguments!
If that were the case, we might have a lower divorce rate!
But it might help someone understand why another person is with who they are with - or not, as it were (not that it matters - none of my concern who's sleeping with who, unless myself or my husband is involved!) But I still like seeing the opposing viewpoint.
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And what constitutes a flag. It's a post on here with 3 flags....and for what? It's been A LOT of stuff on here that probably warranted a flag or two, but that one gets 3..... ugh0
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STLBADGIRL wrote: »And what constitutes a flag. It's a post on here with 3 flags....and for what? It's been A LOT of stuff on here that probably warranted a flag or two, but that one gets 3..... ugh
Poster basically told another poster to bug off because he/she didn't like their response. I didn't flag it, but did think it was uncalled for. I think the debate folder gets a little more leeway than the other folders, though.1 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »So I've read the last 100+ posts and to be honest I don't quite see the point of this argument continuing.
It's just going around in circles. If you don't like what someone else deems to be a deal-breaker in a relationship, that's fine, but your opinion won't change theirs. I feel like everything's been said that can be and this isn't a very constructive conversation at this point.
Possibly. But part of growth as a person is the ability to consider opposing viewpoints and, while not necessarily agreeing with them, be able to say 'Hmm, that's an interesting way to look at it, and it appears to work for you so there must be some merit to your way of thinking.' Your (collective you, not you specifically) horizons may be expanded just a teeny bit more by way of a spirited debate
When it comes to physical attraction and romantic relationships, I seriously doubt anyone ever in human history felt that chemistry was there based on a debate or logical arguments!
This thread isn't just about chemistry and romantic relationships.
I was replying to the part about expandign a persons horizons through debate, which does nto apply to sexuality. And this thread addresses specifically romantic relationships, the question was not if we would tell our mother or sister she is getting too heavy.
Very often the reason to be unhappy with a partner's obesity is that this kills sexual attraction. I am not saying it always kills it, but it is crazy to pretend it does not happen. And for these people who just cannot feel attracted to an obese sexual partner, it makes no sense to try to present arguments about why they should not feel this way. They might leave, or stay and be miserable in this aspect, but no one can convince a person that his/her sexual preferences are wrong!
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Hmmmm, thanks for the info...because with my colorful personality, I will tell a person to go play in traffic quick tooSTLBADGIRL wrote: »And what constitutes a flag. It's a post on here with 3 flags....and for what? It's been A LOT of stuff on here that probably warranted a flag or two, but that one gets 3..... ugh
Poster basically told another poster to bug off because he/she didn't like their response. I didn't flag it, but did think it was uncalled for. I think the debate folder gets a little more leeway than the other folders, though.
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »Perhaps these "deal breakers" should be disclosed UP FRONT.
I have stated before in this thread that I do discuss deal breakers up front.
Not just those related to fitness, activity, and attraction but a lot of things like religion and kids. This is not something that I would spring on a person after years of being together.
Deal breakers should be disclosed up front but this still makes me cringe because things can change, and will change, over the course of a relationship.
When my husband and I tallked marriage, we discussed that I would probably want kids and that I'd probably want to stay home with them -less money for him and less time for him. These were issues that I thought to talk about back then when we were in our 20's. We didn't talk about physical degeneration at all because we were so young. We were both incredibly fit and looked really good. My hubby biked everywhere and climbed year round and I lifted, played basketball, ran half marathons and climbed mountains for 6 hours after work.
Now? We both have some health issues. Mine is autoimmune and involves my digestive system, metabolism, and a fair amount of pain. It hurts to walk. I'm not running much. I don't lift often. Right now I can get my arms above my head. It makes me tired and my metabolism is not very fast anymore.
I'm about 15lbs heavier than I used to be but I look more like 25 lbs heavier because of muscle loss. No more 6-pack. Even if I was that thin the large scar across my abdomen prevents great muscle tone there. I can't do what I did when we met. I was 18. Now I'm in my mid 40s. If looks and being able to keep up with your spouses activities were deal breakers, we would have split long ago....
Course, I think spouses should have their own activities and not rely on their significant other to entertain them. Even 20+ years ago, I climbed those mountains and ran on my own, and hubby climbed the waterfalls and rode bikes without me. We are with each other for who we are and not what he will do with me in my spare time.9 -
This thread is turning into a preteen novel, with multiple posters of the female persuasion doing their best to change the bad boy.
...and scene!8 -
Who's a bad boy?? I though the main antagonist remained mysteriously gender-neutral? WHAT DID I MISS??3
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I am lucky as I have never had a person I have been in a relationship comment on my weight . This being said I decided to do something about my weight. I don't think I would love my husband any less if he gained 30 or even 50 pounds. There would come a time though when it would effect my relationship with him. Haters are going to hate but I chose to do something about my weight . If my partner gained over 100 pounds and did nothing I don't think I would stay in the relationship. You would expect your partner to get help if they drank too much, you would expect them to look for a new job if they were jobless, why wouldn't I expect my partner to do anything about their weight? I am not a quitter and I don't want to be with someone who is . I am not saying they would have to be fit but they would have to be doing something if they were morbidly obese . Sorry it isn't about looks like it comes across - I generally have a low tolerance for people who always have excuses and don't take charge of their lives. Pleasantly plump is fine - morbidly obese where it effects life's enjoyment is not . At least try to improve ourselves6
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This thread is turning into a preteen novel, with multiple posters of the female persuasion doing their best to change the bad boy.
...and scene!
It's not so much change the bad boy as it is to inform the bad boy, I think. The judgments about projection are a bit unfair. I think those of us sharing stories of long term relationships are scratching our heads because we know how they work and aren't seeing anything to relate to in what she's saying. That's not projecting, that's looking for common ground.
People who have been through what the "bad boy" is describing over the long haul having invested a lot in loving relationships usually have a foundation built on deeper issues.
This is why I was making an issue on the other poster's history. What she is saying sounds purely theoretical.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »This thread is turning into a preteen novel, with multiple posters of the female persuasion doing their best to change the bad boy.
...and scene!
It's not so much change the bad boy as it is to inform the bad boy, I think. The judgments about projection are a bit unfair. I think those of us sharing stories of long term relationships are scratching our heads because we know how they work and aren't seeing anything to relate to in what she's saying. That's not projecting, that's looking for common ground.
People who have been through what the "bad boy" is describing over the long haul having invested a lot in loving relationships usually have a foundation built on deeper issues.
This is why I was making an issue on the other poster's history. What she is saying sounds purely theoretical.
I confused about the gender of everyone in this thread now
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It's ok - the thread should probably wander off into the wilderness to die its natural death at this point anyway
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Is the thread really that tense? I'm not taking the discussion to be as antagonistic as I guess some are?
Anyway, I think OP has lots of views on her question, so maybe it should end!1
This discussion has been closed.
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