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Should your S.O./Spouse have a say so if they feel you are too thin or too large?
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »You want to know what I think about partnership? Partnership doe snot mean one person gives u p what is important to them because the other one fundamentally changes who they are. If I started a relationship on the terms that I'm an active person, a normal weight person, someone who goes out and does things with this other person and then I completely change my lifestyle on them by quitting exercise, replacing all those mutually shared activities with couch surfing, and I gain a bunch of weight, I'm not the same person they committed to being with.
Getting to a BMI of 25 or 26 -- and you said you'd warn them if the pants started getting tight, do it again if the pants stopped fitting, and out the door as soon as they were officially overweight -- does not mean "fundamentally changes who they are" or "completely changes lifestyle" or stops being an active person, though. It really does just seem purely physical. Which you've acknowledged in other posts, I think, and that's totally your choice and all.
For me, some weight ups and downs (and other life ups and down) seem like things lots of people go through. A lot of people have talked about how they gained some weight due to temporary life circumstances. Pregnancy/new baby is one, lost job/temporary mild depression may be another (and some might have this go the other way and end up in better shape, but people are different). Others are stress at work or adjusting to a new job, health issues in the family, an injury or health issue that changes mobility for a while, lots of things. Some people really struggle with things like stress eating, for example.
Now, of course, none of these things require one to gain weight, and I think many of the people I am talking about will eventually get a handle on it, but you seem to have very little willingness to let a partner be flawed, from what you've said here. If I had a partner who told me "I love you at 125, but 130 gets a warning and get to 141 and overweight, and blech, it's over," that wouldn't make me think I wanted to stay thin, I'd end the relationship now (even though I have no intentions of gaining weight).
My dad is probably over a 25 BMI these days, not by a lot, but he's still extremely active for his age. My mom, not, because she's had health issues (not weight related). Her weight hasn't actually changed that much, but she's unable to move around nearly how she used to. If my dad decided that wasn't what he'd signed up for, she was a different person, I can't say I'd react positively. And if it were the reverse and my dad with the mobility issues and my mom without, and she left for that reason, I'd think that was bad too.
But granted, parents.6 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »You want to know what I think about partnership? Partnership doe snot mean one person gives u p what is important to them because the other one fundamentally changes who they are. If I started a relationship on the terms that I'm an active person, a normal weight person, someone who goes out and does things with this other person and then I completely change my lifestyle on them by quitting exercise, replacing all those mutually shared activities with couch surfing, and I gain a bunch of weight, I'm not the same person they committed to being with.
Getting to a BMI of 25 or 26 -- and you said you'd warn them if the pants started getting tight, do it again if the pants stopped fitting, and out the door as soon as they were officially overweight -- does not mean "fundamentally changes who they are" or "completely changes lifestyle" or stops being an active person, though. It really does just seem purely physical. Which you've acknowledged in other posts, I think, and that's totally your choice and all.
That kind of progression doesn't happen overnight. Or in a week. Or one month.For me, some weight ups and downs (and other life ups and down) seem like things lots of people go through. A lot of people have talked about how they gained some weight due to temporary life circumstances. Pregnancy/new baby is one, lost job/temporary mild depression may be another (and some might have this go the other way and end up in better shape, but people are different). Others are stress at work or adjusting to a new job, health issues in the family, an injury or health issue that changes mobility for a while, lots of things. Some people really struggle with things like stress eating, for example.
I have specifically said in this thread that there would be multiple conversations as this is going on about the changes, and about whether any effort would be applied to changing things in a positive direction or the other person would just continue to gain weight. Picking things out of context and then pretending that a change of 30 or more pounds happens in an extremely short period of time is a little disingenuous and seems like a concerted effort to paint me as a jerk.Now, of course, none of these things require one to gain weight, and I think many of the people I am talking about will eventually get a handle on it, but you seem to have very little willingness to let a partner be flawed, from what you've said here. If I had a partner who told me "I love you at 125, but 130 gets a warning and get to 141 and overweight, and blech, it's over," that wouldn't make me think I wanted to stay thin, I'd end the relationship now (even though I have no intentions of gaining weight).
"Eventually" is a pretty loaded word. Does someone get a couple of months to reverse direction and show that they're making positive strides? Sure. Couple of years? No.
While you have painted this whole scenario as playing out in a matter of days or even weeks so as to make me look bad, I'm also not willing to sit around and wait for "eventually" to turn into "never". There is a time to fish or cut bait.My dad is probably over a 25 BMI these days, not by a lot, but he's still extremely active for his age. My mom, not, because she's had health issues (not weight related). Her weight hasn't actually changed that much, but she's unable to move around nearly how she used to. If my dad decided that wasn't what he'd signed up for, she was a different person, I can't say I'd react positively. And if it were the reverse and my dad with the mobility issues and my mom without, and she left for that reason, I'd think that was bad too.
But granted, parents.
I don't judge people for ending a relationship that they are no longer happy in. It's not up to me to define the terms of a relationship between people who aren't me.2 -
I can go from a bmi of 25 to 26 overnight after a couple of slices of pizza and a couple of beers. Thats only 6 lbs for me:).10
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »You want to know what I think about partnership? Partnership doe snot mean one person gives u p what is important to them because the other one fundamentally changes who they are. If I started a relationship on the terms that I'm an active person, a normal weight person, someone who goes out and does things with this other person and then I completely change my lifestyle on them by quitting exercise, replacing all those mutually shared activities with couch surfing, and I gain a bunch of weight, I'm not the same person they committed to being with.
Getting to a BMI of 25 or 26 -- and you said you'd warn them if the pants started getting tight, do it again if the pants stopped fitting, and out the door as soon as they were officially overweight -- does not mean "fundamentally changes who they are" or "completely changes lifestyle" or stops being an active person, though. It really does just seem purely physical. Which you've acknowledged in other posts, I think, and that's totally your choice and all.
That kind of progression doesn't happen overnight. Or in a week. Or one month.
Probably not. I didn't suggest it did.For me, some weight ups and downs (and other life ups and down) seem like things lots of people go through. A lot of people have talked about how they gained some weight due to temporary life circumstances. Pregnancy/new baby is one, lost job/temporary mild depression may be another (and some might have this go the other way and end up in better shape, but people are different). Others are stress at work or adjusting to a new job, health issues in the family, an injury or health issue that changes mobility for a while, lots of things. Some people really struggle with things like stress eating, for example.
I have specifically said in this thread that there would be multiple conversations as this is going on about the changes, and about whether any effort would be applied to changing things in a positive direction or the other person would just continue to gain weight. Picking things out of context and then pretending that a change of 30 or more pounds happens in an extremely short period of time is a little disingenuous and seems like a concerted effort to paint me as a jerk.
I'm BMI 22, and would be overweight with a gain of 15 lbs, roughly. In fact, isn't that the normal range, 30 lbs? So around the middle and it's 15 lbs or so -- let's say 10-20 lbs, depending.
I think the idea that one stops being active and a fundamentally different person with that kind of gain is just wrong too. I've run a 10 min/mile marathon at 145 or so, done weeklong bike rides of 50-100 miles/day, stuff like that. (I don't have huge muscle mass, I was overweight.)
So it's purely aesthetics we are talking about, I think.
Anyway, I wouldn't consider 3 months or even a year an unreasonable time for the things I mentioned. Could I gain 5 lbs/month so 15 in 3 months? Warning at the end of the first month, talking to/second warning at the end of the second, out the door at the end of the third seemed to be exactly what you were saying.Now, of course, none of these things require one to gain weight, and I think many of the people I am talking about will eventually get a handle on it, but you seem to have very little willingness to let a partner be flawed, from what you've said here. If I had a partner who told me "I love you at 125, but 130 gets a warning and get to 141 and overweight, and blech, it's over," that wouldn't make me think I wanted to stay thin, I'd end the relationship now (even though I have no intentions of gaining weight).
"Eventually" is a pretty loaded word. Does someone get a couple of months to reverse direction and show that they're making positive strides? Sure. Couple of years? No.
This kind of attitude toward someone, as if they were a student or employee making an effort to turn things around, just seems really different than anything I can understand toward a partner, especially someone who was struggling.
But like I said, your deal, and so long as you were completely upfront I think that's fair (just so you know, I'll give a warning or two, but BMI 25 and it's out the door). But this is what you are saying.While you have painted this whole scenario as playing out in a matter of days or even weeks so as to make me look bad, I'm also not willing to sit around and wait for "eventually" to turn into "never". There is a time to fish or cut bait.
It's not to make you look bad. I'm trying to explain why you are getting the reaction you are. It just does sound really shocking to me, but it's your life, I don't care.My dad is probably over a 25 BMI these days, not by a lot, but he's still extremely active for his age. My mom, not, because she's had health issues (not weight related). Her weight hasn't actually changed that much, but she's unable to move around nearly how she used to. If my dad decided that wasn't what he'd signed up for, she was a different person, I can't say I'd react positively. And if it were the reverse and my dad with the mobility issues and my mom without, and she left for that reason, I'd think that was bad too.
But granted, parents.
I don't judge people for ending a relationship that they are no longer happy in. It's not up to me to define the terms of a relationship between people who aren't me. [/quote]
Fair enough.
If my dad left my mom (or vice versa) because of an illness (not one that led to terrible treatment, like an addiction, but one that made her less able to go out to do fun things and more helpless), I probably would judge.4 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Perhaps these "deal breakers" should be disclosed UP FRONT.
I have stated before in this thread that I do discuss deal breakers up front.
Not just those related to fitness, activity, and attraction but a lot of things like religion and kids. This is not something that I would spring on a person after years of being together.
My advice is not to YOU but to the OP. I you need to discuss yourself maybe start your own thread. The OP here does not say that it ever was or was not listed in some list of deal breakers at the start of the relationship.0 -
I always tell my wife to let me know when its time to change workout methods (bulk, cut) I really depend on her criticism. It can be hard for me to adequately judge my own physique at times because I just don't see myself like others do.3
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »Perhaps these "deal breakers" should be disclosed UP FRONT.
I have stated before in this thread that I do discuss deal breakers up front.
Not just those related to fitness, activity, and attraction but a lot of things like religion and kids. This is not something that I would spring on a person after years of being together.
My advice is not to YOU but to the OP. I you need to discuss yourself maybe start your own thread. The OP here does not say that it ever was or was not listed in some list of deal breakers at the start of the relationship.
You quoted me. I thought you were responding to me. It's a reasonable conclusion.jpoehls9025 wrote: »I always tell my wife to let me know when its time to change workout methods (bulk, cut) I really depend on her criticism. It can be hard for me to adequately judge my own physique at times because I just don't see myself like others do.
I appreciate that kind of honest criticism from a partner. I find it motivating, personally, and it is usually part of being with someone who values the same things that I do. Doubly so if it means being active together.5 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?
I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.
What if it's a positive thing in their life?
Are you suggesting that in a relationship it's OK if one of the parties is fundamentally unhappy as long as the other person thinks its great?
I am suggesting that a good relationship is a partnership, and often that can mean putting the needs of your partner above the needs of yourself. I am not saying that individuals don't have the right to be happy. But your black and white view of this seems focused solely on yourself, and that does not suggest that you view your relationships as a true partnership.
No one is obligated to sacrifice their own happiness to spend their lives toiling for someone else's happiness. You talk about partnership like the only partner with obligations is the one whose attraction is to a normal weight body type, but there is another side to that coin.
You want to know what I think about partnership? Partnership doe snot mean one person gives u p what is important to them because the other one fundamentally changes who they are. If I started a relationship on the terms that I'm an active person, a normal weight person, someone who goes out and does things with this other person and then I completely change my lifestyle on them by quitting exercise, replacing all those mutually shared activities with couch surfing, and I gain a bunch of weight, I'm not the same person they committed to being with.
That would be true if I became a compulsive gambler, a drug addict, converted to another religion, completely reversed my stance on having children, or came out as transgender and started on HRT.
Unless both partners are committed to making themselves a positive aspect of the relationship, it's not a partnership.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?
I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.
What if it's a positive thing in their life?
Are you suggesting that in a relationship it's OK if one of the parties is fundamentally unhappy as long as the other person thinks its great?
I am suggesting that a good relationship is a partnership, and often that can mean putting the needs of your partner above the needs of yourself. I am not saying that individuals don't have the right to be happy. But your black and white view of this seems focused solely on yourself, and that does not suggest that you view your relationships as a true partnership.
^This. Particularly if the emphasis is on building a lasting relationship.
I will stand by my contention that the focus on things like sex and appearance (though they might be early on) without any consideration that things evolve over time and circumstances change and priorities shift over time and true partners with a commitment to a relationship work though these things is something that people with an eye on the fact that life could throw you a curve ball at any time don't focus on. Adaptability and a willingness to support is key to keeping a relationship going through changing circumstances.
For you.
For you those things may not be important over time. I've been through the dead bedroom. I'm not doing it again. I suppose another fundamental difference of opinion here is that I don't think that keeping a relationship going once it's no longer fulfilling is a positive thing. I know you view that as a failure and not a real relationship, but we don't all have to have the same metrics for our lives, and as long as I don't lie to a partner about what I find important, who are you to say that my priorities are wrong?
I find it interesting that you believe sex not being a priority means the bedroom is dead.
You're wrong.
It just means that we're not as gung-ho about it as we were when things first started and it's moved down the list of things that are important to us. We've both turned each other down because we'd rather sleep or snuggle, and after 30 years, that's okay. There are enough yes times to keep us both happy. 30 years is a long time, and when you're in your 50's and have done it all multiple times in multiple ways, it's just not that fascinating any more.
And to call back to something another poster said upthread, this has been discussed in my marriage.
What I find a failure on your part is that you do not consider that a relationship could ever evolve to this point and that it would be okay and a normal progression over time.
Believe me, there was a time in my life I would have never felt I'd have a cavalier attitude about where sex fell on the priority scale. Time taught me otherwise.7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?
I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.
What if it's a positive thing in their life?
Are you suggesting that in a relationship it's OK if one of the parties is fundamentally unhappy as long as the other person thinks its great?
I am suggesting that a good relationship is a partnership, and often that can mean putting the needs of your partner above the needs of yourself. I am not saying that individuals don't have the right to be happy. But your black and white view of this seems focused solely on yourself, and that does not suggest that you view your relationships as a true partnership.
No one is obligated to sacrifice their own happiness to spend their lives toiling for someone else's happiness. You talk about partnership like the only partner with obligations is the one whose attraction is to a normal weight body type, but there is another side to that coin.
You want to know what I think about partnership? Partnership doe snot mean one person gives u p what is important to them because the other one fundamentally changes who they are. If I started a relationship on the terms that I'm an active person, a normal weight person, someone who goes out and does things with this other person and then I completely change my lifestyle on them by quitting exercise, replacing all those mutually shared activities with couch surfing, and I gain a bunch of weight, I'm not the same person they committed to being with.
That would be true if I became a compulsive gambler, a drug addict, converted to another religion, completely reversed my stance on having children, or came out as transgender and started on HRT.
Unless both partners are committed to making themselves a positive aspect of the relationship, it's not a partnership.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Also i wouldnt expect these comments from someone who never got big
The only thing i can think of is someone was so cruel to you now thats your way of thinking?
You consider me "cruel" to others for having sexual attraction in a relationship that involves sex being a deal breaker, but you don't think that's calling me a bad person?
Really?
i am saying, was someone cruel to you when you gained weight, now you think the same way they did?
by the way did they give you a deadline to lose the weight and you didnt meet it?
I don't at all consider it cruel to break up with someone if the relationship is no longer a positive thing in your life.
What if it's a positive thing in their life?
Are you suggesting that in a relationship it's OK if one of the parties is fundamentally unhappy as long as the other person thinks its great?
I am suggesting that a good relationship is a partnership, and often that can mean putting the needs of your partner above the needs of yourself. I am not saying that individuals don't have the right to be happy. But your black and white view of this seems focused solely on yourself, and that does not suggest that you view your relationships as a true partnership.
^This. Particularly if the emphasis is on building a lasting relationship.
I will stand by my contention that the focus on things like sex and appearance (though they might be early on) without any consideration that things evolve over time and circumstances change and priorities shift over time and true partners with a commitment to a relationship work though these things is something that people with an eye on the fact that life could throw you a curve ball at any time don't focus on. Adaptability and a willingness to support is key to keeping a relationship going through changing circumstances.
For you.
For you those things may not be important over time. I've been through the dead bedroom. I'm not doing it again. I suppose another fundamental difference of opinion here is that I don't think that keeping a relationship going once it's no longer fulfilling is a positive thing. I know you view that as a failure and not a real relationship, but we don't all have to have the same metrics for our lives, and as long as I don't lie to a partner about what I find important, who are you to say that my priorities are wrong?
I find it interesting that you believe sex not being a priority means the bedroom is dead.
You're wrong.
It just means that we're not as gung-ho about it as we were when things first started and it's moved down the list of things that are important to us. We've both turned each other down because we'd rather sleep or snuggle, and after 30 years, that's okay. There are enough yes times to keep us both happy. 30 years is a long time, and when you're in your 50's and have done it all multiple times in multiple ways, it's just not that fascinating any more.
And to call back to something another poster said upthread, this has been discussed in my marriage.
What I find a failure on your part is that you do not consider that a relationship could ever evolve to this point and that it would be okay and a normal progression over time.
Believe me, there was a time in my life I would have never felt I'd have a cavalier attitude about where sex fell on the priority scale. Time taught me otherwise.
I don't think you are qualified to tell me whether or not I fail at anything. My life, my choices, and my priorities aren't the same as yours.
That means they're different, not that mine are objectively wrong, and I don't need you to give me a condescending speech about when I get older as you are now. I have tried to be polite about it, and tried to simply state that different people may live their lives differently without anyone being wrong several times. I'm neither judging you nor your relationship simply because I personally don't live as you live.
This is my last reply to you in this thread. I wish you the best, but I'm done.
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There have been so.many.times my husband carried more than his fair share. On the flip side, there have been many times when I bore more than my share. That's marriage. That's life over decades throwing you curve-balls and one of you handling it better than the other for a while. That's commitment and love and all that other Hallmark Channel sappy garbage. I'm so freaking happy he never gave up on me when I wasn't pulling my weight (or piling on more than my share of the weight, as it were
).
Yes, and that's how a long-standing relationship has to work.
I find the questions of "well how long do you wait for someone to get their act together" in this thread particularly interesting because it's ... how to unpack this... I can't.
I can't because there is the kid in me who remembers my mother shoving me out the door in the aftermath of my rape when I wasn't ready telling me it was time and that I needed to look for work. I was terrified to navigate the streets and bus routes. I don't know that I ever forgave her for pushing me out like that without getting me counseling.
So I see shades of her selfishness in those types of questions. The "how long do you wait for someone else to get their act together" questions. Because her action was about her not being able to deal with my pain. And that made her action selfish. And love isn't selfish.
Relationships are shifting landscapes and as you said, pinuplove, it's not all 50/50. A lot of times you have to be selfless while the other person marshals their resources and that can take time.
If some other people have different types of relationships in mind, that is their prerogative, I guess, but I can't see how they'd be in any way fulfilling. They wouldn't be to me. We learn more when we give in a relationship and relationships grow deeper after weathering the rough patches.11 -
@heiliskrimsli - I like that you are keeping your cool....you like what you like and you are clear about it. That's pretty cool even though we don't agree 100% But you are entitled to how you want to live your life. I really appreciate you weighing in on the subject....no pun intended.6
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I believe the ones that talk about a long lasting relationship is totally correct that it is give and take...and there are life circumstances that occur that are so much bigger than weight...but I'm not sure if OP ever stated that she wanted to be in a long term relationship or marriage. If that is the case, would you have a different opinion on her views?
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@GottaBurnEmAll That's deep *kitten* about your assault and your mother's reaction. Thank you for sharing. I think this is a very important post for people to see and ponder. Humans are complicated creatures, and our relationships with others even more so.
Agreed that I can't see myself being happy long-term with someone who placed stipulations such as have been described in this thread, but to each their own. Luckily, I don't have to!
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »There have been so.many.times my husband carried more than his fair share. On the flip side, there have been many times when I bore more than my share. That's marriage. That's life over decades throwing you curve-balls and one of you handling it better than the other for a while. That's commitment and love and all that other Hallmark Channel sappy garbage. I'm so freaking happy he never gave up on me when I wasn't pulling my weight (or piling on more than my share of the weight, as it were ).
Yes, and that's how a long-standing relationship has to work.
I find the questions of "well how long do you wait for someone to get their act together" in this thread particularly interesting because it's ... how to unpack this... I can't.
I can't because there is the kid in me who remembers my mother shoving me out the door in the aftermath of my rape when I wasn't ready telling me it was time and that I needed to look for work. I was terrified to navigate the streets and bus routes. I don't know that I ever forgave her for pushing me out like that without getting me counseling.
So I see shades of her selfishness in those types of questions. The "how long do you wait for someone else to get their act together" questions. Because her action was about her not being able to deal with my pain. And that made her action selfish. And love isn't selfish.
Relationships are shifting landscapes and as you said, pinuplove, it's not all 50/50. A lot of times you have to be selfless while the other person marshals their resources and that can take time.
If some other people have different types of relationships in mind, that is their prerogative, I guess, but I can't see how they'd be in any way fulfilling. They wouldn't be to me. We learn more when we give in a relationship and relationships grow deeper after weathering the rough patches.
Wow, so sorry that this happened to you and also your mother's response to it. I'm at a lost for words.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »There have been so.many.times my husband carried more than his fair share. On the flip side, there have been many times when I bore more than my share. That's marriage. That's life over decades throwing you curve-balls and one of you handling it better than the other for a while. That's commitment and love and all that other Hallmark Channel sappy garbage. I'm so freaking happy he never gave up on me when I wasn't pulling my weight (or piling on more than my share of the weight, as it were ).
Yes, and that's how a long-standing relationship has to work.
I find the questions of "well how long do you wait for someone to get their act together" in this thread particularly interesting because it's ... how to unpack this... I can't.
I can't because there is the kid in me who remembers my mother shoving me out the door in the aftermath of my rape when I wasn't ready telling me it was time and that I needed to look for work. I was terrified to navigate the streets and bus routes. I don't know that I ever forgave her for pushing me out like that without getting me counseling.
So I see shades of her selfishness in those types of questions. The "how long do you wait for someone else to get their act together" questions. Because her action was about her not being able to deal with my pain. And that made her action selfish. And love isn't selfish.
Relationships are shifting landscapes and as you said, pinuplove, it's not all 50/50. A lot of times you have to be selfless while the other person marshals their resources and that can take time.
If some other people have different types of relationships in mind, that is their prerogative, I guess, but I can't see how they'd be in any way fulfilling. They wouldn't be to me. We learn more when we give in a relationship and relationships grow deeper after weathering the rough patches.
Getting a bit of topic, but we are all defined in some percentage by our past relationships, starting from childhood. Your past experience for example might make you far more tolerant and patient in a relationship. Having experienced the opposite in my own life (a couple of people very close to me pretty much doing nothing in their lives, DESPITE counseling), I would probably be far more impatient and more proactive. I am not saying that my attitude is better than yours, and I suspect that different reactions suit different situations. Plus we probably would all act different in different scenarios. But, since we do all have different experiences, have witnessed different outcomes etc, it is normal to have different attitudes and different expectations in a relationship.
2 -
Getting a bit of topic, but we are all defined in some percentage by our past relationships, starting from childhood. Your past experience for example might make you far more tolerant and patient in a relationship. Having experienced the opposite in my own life (a couple of people very close to me pretty much doing nothing in their lives, DESPITE counseling), I would probably be far more impatient and more proactive. I am not saying that my attitude is better than yours, and I suspect that different reactions suit different situations. Plus we probably would all act different in different scenarios. But, since we do all have different experiences, have witnessed different outcomes etc, it is normal to have different attitudes and different expectations in a relationship.
I think this is key. Everyone has their proverbial "line in the sand" of how much and what they will or will not tolerate. That is often guided by experience, but certainly also preference and tolerance. I don't believe that one person's line makes him or her a saint, and I don't believe it makes the other person a.s.s.ho.l.e of the year.
And when it comes to being so unhappy as to threaten one's own mental and physical health and the other person doesn't care enough to make some changes, well, something has to give.3 -
I think also there is a huge gulf between hypothetical and actual. What you can say with utter conviction that you would not do if the situation arose, can be completely different to what you do do in circumstances where you get there.7
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This thread is kind of sad.
It seems like most of the posts on this thread have devolved into people losing their minds because a certain poster has "more-stringent-than-average" relationship standards. Those standards may relax in time or they may not. But it's actually OK if someone else has deal-breakers that don't align with your values. It's not about you. It's their relationship, not yours.
I think people are taking it way too personal, projecting their own feelings and experiences into the poster's love life, and making a lot of assumptions about the poster's character and life experience. We all have our own standards and that's great, because we're the ones who have to live with whatever we settle for. Don't feel bad for this person's partners. It sounds like they have been well-informed, willing participants in their relationships.
There is a difference between sickness/disability (involuntary) and making the choice (voluntary) to just not take care of oneself. I myself would have a definite problem if my husband willingly let himself go to the point of obesity. But it wouldn't get to that point, because there would be an intervention. And I doubt it would even get that far, since it's not really in either of our natures to let that happen. And I would expect the same reaction from him if I let myself go, since we've both agreed that health and fitness is important to us as individuals and as a team. I can understand some normal weight gain (not obesity) and other changes with age, but putting effort into caring for oneself and at least trying to be the best version of yourself at every life stage and circumstance is an important value to me. I'm not ashamed of that. It's clearly not a value for everyone here, and that's OK, too.
And no, I'm not young or a newlywed. I've been with my husband for nearly two decades. We're well into our 40's, and neither one of us has ever been overweight. With middle age, we both started creeping up into the upper range of healthy weight, so we came here to reverse the trend and have been successful in doing so. I don't think it's inevitable that people have to fall apart as they age, but I am well aware that "beauty fades" and people do get old.
Personally, I think that natural, healthy aging is a beautiful thing. But I don't have to like or accept the idea of my partner or myself using our normal life experiences (like having kids or getting older) as an excuse to give up and fall apart. I had beautiful, healthy, active grandparents to role model this for me. Anything can happen - we're not in total control, but to purposely put yourself at risk when you can at least actively try to stay fit and healthy doesn't fly with me. I consider that to be pretty toxic behavior. And toxic behavior is kind of a deal breaker for me...
There's no expectation of perfection or some delusion about staying the same forever. Everyone earns some battle scars along the way. But just because some people have divergent standards doesn't make them bad or wrong. It just makes them different.
22 -
This thread is kind of sad.
It seems like most of the posts on this thread have devolved into people losing their minds because a certain poster has "more-stringent-than-average" relationship standards. Those standards may relax in time or they may not. But it's actually OK if someone else has deal-breakers that don't align with your values. It's not about you. It's their relationship, not yours.
I think people are taking it way too personal, projecting their own feelings and experiences into the poster's love life, and making a lot of assumptions about the poster's character and life experience. We all have our own standards and that's great, because we're the ones who have to live with whatever we settle for. Don't feel bad for this person's partners. It sounds like they have been well-informed, willing participants in their relationships.
There is a difference between sickness/disability (involuntary) and making the choice (voluntary) to just not take care of oneself. I myself would have a definite problem if my husband willingly let himself go to the point of obesity. But it wouldn't get to that point, because there would be an intervention. And I doubt it would even get that far, since it's not really in either of our natures to let that happen. And I would expect the same reaction from him if I let myself go, since we've both agreed that health and fitness is important to us as individuals and as a team. I can understand some normal weight gain (not obesity) and other changes with age, but putting effort into caring for oneself and at least trying to be the best version of yourself at every life stage and circumstance is an important value to me. I'm not ashamed of that. It's clearly not a value for everyone here, and that's OK, too.
And no, I'm not young or a newlywed. I've been with my husband for nearly two decades. We're well into our 40's, and neither one of us has ever been overweight. With middle age, we both started creeping up into the upper range of healthy weight, so we came here to reverse the trend and have been successful in doing so. I don't think it's inevitable that people have to fall apart as they age, but I am well aware that "beauty fades" and people do get old.
Personally, I think that natural, healthy aging is a beautiful thing. But I don't have to like or accept the idea of my partner or myself using our normal life experiences (like having kids or getting older) as an excuse to give up and fall apart. I had beautiful, healthy, active grandparents to role model this for me. Anything can happen - we're not in total control, but to purposely put yourself at risk when you can at least actively try to stay fit and healthy doesn't fly with me. I consider that to be pretty toxic behavior. And toxic behavior is kind of a deal breaker for me...
There's no expectation of perfection or some delusion about staying the same forever. Everyone earns some battle scars along the way. But just because some people have divergent standards doesn't make them bad or wrong. It just makes them different.
QFT2 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »I think also there is a huge gulf between hypothetical and actual. What you can say with utter conviction that you would not do if the situation arose, can be completely different to what you do do in circumstances where you get there.
I think this is totally true.0
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