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I don't support the fat acceptance/plus size movement.
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But if the fitness test is deemed to be discriminatory, the standards will be adjusted. This happened in the military. The fitness tests for Marines, Navy Seals, Army Rangers, etc had standards that were too high for women to physically do. They were deemed to be sexist and adjusted so that women could join up. Now when the military sets up teams, they never set up all women teams because they know the males will have to "help" the females through some of the more physically demanding bits ( carrying gear, getting over obstacles, lugging wounded around, etc). I'm not saying women should never be in the military, I am saying that if something is protected by anti discrimination laws, then fitness tests and other performance tests WILL be adjusted to accommodate.
Female vet here. I think women should be allowed into any role they desire, but they should be capable of doing the job, and the standards shouldn't be artificially lowered for them. But neither should they be artificially high. For example, perhaps a smaller woman needs less equipment than a larger man and thus can get by with a lighter pack. That was just a hypothetical - I was in the USAF and didn't do any pack-carrying
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Goodness me. So your experience in a kitchen qualifies you to dismiss my comment about fitness test adjustments in the military as a result of anti discrimination laws. Unfortunately, what you don't know is that I had 18yrs in the military retiring at the LtCol level so I am intimately familiar with what I am talking about. I honestly don't think kitchen or warehouse work really equates to jobs that were mentioned like police, firemen, military etc as much as you may think it does.
I suggest you stay in the kitchen and not critique comments that are obviously beyond your realm of experience.
I served in the military, and in kitchens and warehouses, and learned lessons from each place. I find your "stay in the kitchen" rather, well, I'll just leave it as Jack Nicholson-like.10 -
calorielogonly wrote: »
Actually, no one commented on my medical history, my actual blood work results. I just was upset about it when I woke up this morning and figured no-one believed me, so I shared it. I can't delete it now. I can't get this stupid thing out of my head, that's why I don't do social media. Not sure why I looked this post up again. Anyway, I was talking about people being overly concerned about other people being fat, people should mind their own business about that and just look the other way, you don't know what that person is going through.
You can ask a moderator to delete it by clicking on the Flag button, then Report > This is my post and I want to delete it.
My blood work has always been good. My knees have not. Losing weight and exercising has helped considerably with that.
Also, stairs no longer make me out of breath.0 -
You should never believe that it's okay for someone to remain overweight, but for me 'fat acceptance' is keeping high-horse opinions to yourself, not judging and never picking on someone for their weight. People who mock and disgrace those with weight issues have a distinct lack of humanity and basic decency.
Encourage them to change their lives, but don't hate on overweight people.5 -
This movement should never have been about bodies. Self confidence does not come like that necessarily and personally I don't think it's healthy to assume that people should base their self confidence around their size/weight. It's turned a lot of people into bullies and is keeping even more people from being responsible with their health.
Being on the skinny side of life (my whole life) it makes me angry to have to be bullied weekly at least to eat more by strangers and friends alike. It's not ok to make fun of anyone of any size for anything. The confidence that it takes to let those things roll off isn't found in accepting your body.
I'm also aware of insistent advertising that sets a lot of standards of fit and healthy. Men and women alike are blasted with the images and it's not plus size or particularly small, either. It's anything that will get people to buy into whatever fad will make them look like that. We have a disconnect between actual health and "healthy things" right now. If you don't believe me you can go look at the processed junk that people eat as health food when they're on a diet.5 -
Well I've been overweight and it was nothing other than lack of discipline and gluttony that got me there. I'm ashamed I got like that and rightfully so...if that offends so be it.7
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Well I've been overweight and it was nothing other than lack of discipline and gluttony that got me there. I'm ashamed I got like that and rightfully so...if that offends so be it.
I agree with you 100% and have the same exact perspective on myself. I got overweight because I ate too much, that was a result of stupidity and poor decision making for which I was entirely at fault, and I have since corrected the problem.
I will not tolerate a personal recurrence.5 -
Tbh I'm the same. I have many overweight friends (some who do support it). I would even say the majority of my friends are probably overweight or borderline overweight (66% of america is overweight or obese at this point). I want the best for them but do not comment on their weight, so i do not understand why they do? They also comment on mine.. calling me "skinny" or " tiny" when I am a perfectly average weight for my height. I think when so many people are unhealthy in this country the average (distribution) has shifted to the right, towards higher weights, and thus people forget what was considered "normal" and what was considered healthy not that long ago. Along with this comes a desire to explain or excuse this movement to unhealthier standards. It is absolutely impossible to be VERY overweight and be healthy... I am sure there are some people who are BARELY overweight who are fine, but eventually they COULD run into health issues. We have to ask ourselves is it worth the risk? I think not.4
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It is ok to be "ok" with your weight or body type. There is nothing wrong with that and people should not judge you based on that or "guilt" you into feeling YOU need to be happy with your weight or body type. If you want a change then change, all of us here at MFP are here to help if needed.
I am currently 44, 23olbs and 5' 10", I was 285lbs and I was fat, no question about it and I thought I was happy with it. I was in a size 44 jeans headed to the next size and I decided it was time to get back down, I lost 55lbs so far and dropped to a size 38 jeans but I have at least 20 more to go to reach what I think is a good weight for me. I stopped looking at the scale and started looking at the results, measurements, and appearance.
I agree with a lot of people here, weight is a number and does not indicate healthiness, I have seen skinny people that are extremely unhealthy. Not saying there are not health issues associated with weight.Some of the rhetoric, data, and charts put out indicating if people are healthy, overweight or obese is ridiculous. According to the charts someone my size and age should weigh 179lbs and is considered in the obese section but these charts and criteria that define obese or heavy do not take into consideration the width of your chest, the muscle mass you have or any of that. Just looks at Age and weight...
Just remember to be happy and be you, if others can not accept that then you do not need them in your life!!3 -
Tropicoolblonde wrote: »I would even say the majority of my friends are probably overweight or borderline overweight (66% of america is overweight or obese at this point).
What The kitten is "borderline overweight" . Now being "borderline overweight" is an indication one "doesn't care about their health"? This looks like moving goalposts to me.
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misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I'm 5'4 and I weigh 13 stones 4lbs ( 188lbs) and I want to be 10 stones (140lbs) I've lost 21 lbs so far.
I don't support the plus size or fat acceptance movement, because it promotes unhealthiness. Overweight and Obesity can lead to type 2 diabetes, hypertension, . hypercholesterolemia, stroke, joint pains and CHD.
Two years ago when I went for a blood test. My blood cholesterol level was 5.2 that was all to do with my unhealthy lifestyle and weight. That was a wake up call for me.
When I critique the plus size and fat acceptance movement, I get accused of being a shallow bully. I have heard a lot of the supporters saying that you can be fat and healthy at the same time-which is absolute nonsense!
I'm a plus size woman and I'm not happy with my size or health. I'm doing a lot about my weight.
I agree with you 100%
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I'm 60. Yes I said it out loud! I remember back when I was a teenager in the 70s I was one of the very few chubby girls in my high school and I went to a really large high school. We weren't called curvy - we were just called chunky or fat. Because that's what we were - by 70s standards.
At that time I might have been 15 pounds overweight! I think I was a size 9! So our concept of what is fat has even changed.
Fat has become The New Normal. When I walk into a high school now (I worked for school district) and see that 75% of the girls are overweight or obese it makes me really sad that we've done this to ourselves as a society. I'm not condoning harassing our bullying obese people, but this is the greatest public health crisis of our day. Obesity costs billions of dollars a year in lost productivity and healthcare costs. And we need to end this myth that you can be healthy when you're significantly overweight. It's just not true. As I said I don't ever want to demean people because I know how challenging it is to lose weight and then maintain that loss. But the fat acceptance movement is dangerous to humanity.9 -
I have the answer: horse jockey.stanmann571 wrote: »
IF you can hump your gear, plus your weight, plus the weight of another person, what's the issue??
I'm less concerned about the moderately overweight fireman being able to do his job than the under BMI nurse who may have to move the same patient.
EDIT: Noticed later that it's been said already.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Fat acceptance is enabling. It is damaging people's health in order to avoid damaging their feelings. Which is crueler?You should never believe that it's okay for someone to remain overweight, but for me 'fat acceptance' is keeping high-horse opinions to yourself, not judging and never picking on someone for their weight. People who mock and disgrace those with weight issues have a distinct lack of humanity and basic decency.
Encourage them to change their lives, but don't hate on overweight people.
Overeating is similar to other destructive behaviors, like smoking, excessive drinking, etc., in that it is a self-inflicted condition. It differs, however, in the inability to conceal the issue. I can refrain from smoking or drinking and largely conceal the fact that I engage in these behaviors when I need to (from casual acquaintances, anyway); however, there is no hiding that I am overweight, it is always in plain sight, and since I need to eat and it is pretty much acceptable to eat everywhere (unlike smoking and drinking), there is unlimited judgment and temptation.
The key is balancing a minimal amount of acceptance with avoiding enabling. Making it acceptable to degrade one's health is not kindness.4 -
The bullying of actress Sarah Hyland is the reason why I'm not on board with fat acceptance or so-called body positivity. Kidney displasia and the resulting weight loss are 'thin privilege' and 'pro-ana' apparently. I'll NEVER accept an ideology that embraces such bullying encased in bitterness and jealousy. They should be ashamed of themselves.
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I don't accept it either, my reasoning is for younger people who may not be aware of the repercussions later in life they may face from being overweight/obese. I feel that it is giving an excuse to people to not get up and do something about their weight problem. I do realize there are people who are overweight who are healthier than people who are average or underweight. This is my personal opinion though, if they are truly happy with how they look and feel then cheers to them. I think this is part of the reason I don't understand it because when I am out of shape I feel horrible, mentally and physically.1
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It is a joke, but it's making a point by showing a mirror image of the demands of fat activists.
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I'm a plus size and I don't think it's about encouraging or supporting obesity. Personally I think it's about making sure people who are obese and are overweight learn to love them self's and shouldn't feel as though they are an outcast of society or not beautiful. I'm not saying that obese is beautiful but regardless of our shape we all have both inner an outer beauty. I've lost 40 pounds so far and the only reason that this weight loss journey has been more successful than my other failed attempts is because I've learnt to love and accept my self. Yes I am overweight but my weight does not define me. We should all be wanting to lose weight for health reasons primarily over appearance. I do totally agree with you and obesity should not be promoted or looked at as normal or healthy. Any one who is overweight is at risk and is not at an optimal health level but similarly any one who is at thier ideal weight but eats junk all day and unhealthy is also at risk. For me the only way I was able to start losing weight was to learn to accept my self and realise that my weight did not define me nor was me being overweight something to feel un beautiful about. The more accepted I felt as an individual as apposed to identify my self solely as a fat person, the more motivated I became. I think fat acceptance and the plus size movement is aiming to help more people feel confident and secure which then has a positive effect on them, allowing then to realise thier self worth and hopefully do something about thier weight. Also many plus size are indeed on a weight loss journey and individuals shouldn't be shunned or put down untill they reach a healthy level of weight because it is unknown to us as to how much weight they may have already lost and for that they should be celebrated. It's not fair and it's demotivating to put obese people down. I think the more support and confidence the obese get the more likely they are to lose weight because they feel supported and confident. But I agree that no one should ever say it's okay to be obese purely because it's not and will effect health. What I don't agree with is telling some one they shouldn't be accepted or feel loved or have confidence because they are obese. That's negative and unsupportive and helps no one. The moment I was able to separate me being overweight and how I let my weight define me, I was able to say I love my self enough to become fit and healthy. And here I am.. 40 pounds lighter with more to go.
Love you all xxxx and don't forget to love your self. You will see more results that way xx5 -
Ugh. Wake up. There's no damn movement trying to force us to accept that fat is anything other than unattractive except by some dipshit media idiot deciding that it would be a cool story that would get them noticed because there are so many fat people in this country who refuse to take responsibility for their own lack of control. I say this as someone who has over indulged. As someone who was once an athlete. As someone who was once a competitive bodybuilder. As someone who, somewhere along the line, decided the burgers, tacos, pasta, fries, alcohol, cigarettes, and crack (yep, you read that right) were more important than making some choices that are healthier. I say it as someone who was hospitalized with congestive heart failure who STILL thought it was ok to eat whatever the hell I wanted because i didn't think i should be denied anything. Not sure why i felt t that way. I'm guessing i briefly bought into the media hype that we all deserve trophies simply because we exist. Yeah..... We DON'T. With VERY few exceptions, people are fat because they refuse to exercise self control. Excuses are just that... Excuses. Your mama and daddy didn't love you enough, so you turned to food. EXCUSE. Your cousin/ funny uncle/ neighbor touched you inappropriately, so you turned to food. EXCUSE. Some person you really loved had the nerve to die unexpectedly, so you turned to food. EXCUSE. You people haven't been through anything I haven't, so you don't get to say I don't understand. If you're on MFP and you're looking at this, I assume it means you're ready to make a change. Good for you. I decided that it was time to take my life back. To take control back instead of trying to find ways to escape what happened. I walked away from addiction through sheer willpower. That may not work for everyone. The first thing you have to do is get PISSED at the things you've allowed to control you. Then take that control back. You have to figure out how to do that. There's no magic pill. There's no magic diet. No one is going to do it for you. Get up off your ample *kitten* and do it for yourself and stop expecting those of us who've bothered to do the work to make way for you. If you won't do it yourself... Then put your really big girl (Or boy) panties on and remind yourself "sticks and stones..."6
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Body positivity is such a deceptive phrase. The thing about it is, yes, it's possible and good to love yourself no matter how you look, but you shouldn't give up and accept being at an unhealthy weight. There's a difference between being unhealthy and big, and being healthy and big because it's your body shape. Too many people don't understand this difference, in my opinion.
"I don't want to lose weight because I shouldn't have to conform to society's standards of how I should look!" This phrase is missing the point. Yes, there are needlessly cruel individuals out there who seem to think other people should look a certain way otherwise they're "imperfect"...but health is more important than looks.
Fat acceptance does not mean you should be fat and not do anything about it. It means you should love yourself no matter if other people treat you badly. I think it means you should treat yourself with reverence and not see yourself as having something wrong with you because of how you look. The purpose of this positivity is to see yourself as a person who is worth something and whose entire being has value, not to say "I'm fat/obese and I'm not going to change because why should I?" I do not think a lot of people understand the health side of it, and are mostly thinking of the social side of it.6 -
I think movements like fat acceptance are important to diminish the shame and stigma around being fat - I recall there was a study a while ago that showed that shaming obese individuals did not help their weight loss outcomes (and possibly even worsened them, but I don't recall). Weight loss should be for the sake of health as opposed to coming from shame about your body. I was chubby growing up and my mother was quite brutal about my weight. Guess what? I developed an eating disorder. It's important to note that fat people are not any less deserving of respect - I think that's the importance of the movement - you're not somehow a defective person because you are fat. Those kind of messages help precisely nobody, except maybe making the person saying it feel good about themselves. I don't think this means that fat people shouldn't lose weight - I think it should be encouraged, for health's sake - but the shaming and negative attitudes surrounding weight are unhelpful, unpleasant, and sometimes dangerous. You can be body positive and still want to lose weight.6
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I think HAES/body positivity/fat acceptance/etc is overall a very misunderstood movement. I would summarize the main points to be these:
1. HAES is Health at Every Size, not Healthy at Every Size. What this means is that anyone at any size is capable of making healthy food and exercise choices, even if it's just baby steps. No one is saying that a severely overweight person is the pinnacle of health unless they're delusional (in which case they're not really following the movement anyway).
2. Some people are overweight due to medical conditions. Some people are overweight due to overeating. No matter the reason, it's none of your business unless they share it with you. Overweight people are constantly subjected to uninvited criticism/judgement, probably moreso than any other demographic because our bodies are on display 24/7. And even if someone is making unhealthy choices (be it overeating, smoking, drinking, or whatever), that's their prerogative. Unless you're *very* close or you are specifically asked for help, keep the "advice" to yourself.
All that being said, everyone is allowed to feel confident, attractive, and happy. And no one is forcing you to change what you're sexually attracted to (which is one of the more ridiculous "complaints" I've seen about this movement). The point is just to show that people come in all shapes and sizes and no one is more or less worthy of love/respect than anyone else. Everyone deserves to feel good about themselves, no matter what choices they make or have made, and you're a real dick if you go out of your way to dull someone's sparkle.
TL;DR: Don't be a jerk. Respect everyone equally. Let people live their lives.
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Actually there is such a movement.sssynnamon wrote: »Ugh. Wake up. There's no damn movement trying to force us to accept that fat is anything other than unattractive except by some dipshit media idiot deciding that it would be a cool story that would get them noticed because there are so many fat people in this country who refuse to take responsibility for their own lack of control. I say this as someone who has over indulged. As someone who was once an athlete. As someone who was once a competitive bodybuilder. As someone who, somewhere along the line, decided the burgers, tacos, pasta, fries, alcohol, cigarettes, and crack (yep, you read that right) were more important than making some choices that are healthier. I say it as someone who was hospitalized with congestive heart failure who STILL thought it was ok to eat whatever the hell I wanted because i didn't think i should be denied anything. Not sure why i felt t that way. I'm guessing i briefly bought into the media hype that we all deserve trophies simply because we exist. Yeah..... We DON'T. With VERY few exceptions, people are fat because they refuse to exercise self control. Excuses are just that... Excuses. Your mama and daddy didn't love you enough, so you turned to food. EXCUSE. Your cousin/ funny uncle/ neighbor touched you inappropriately, so you turned to food. EXCUSE. Some person you really loved had the nerve to die unexpectedly, so you turned to food. EXCUSE. You people haven't been through anything I haven't, so you don't get to say I don't understand. If you're on MFP and you're looking at this, I assume it means you're ready to make a change. Good for you. I decided that it was time to take my life back. To take control back instead of trying to find ways to escape what happened. I walked away from addiction through sheer willpower. That may not work for everyone. The first thing you have to do is get PISSED at the things you've allowed to control you. Then take that control back. You have to figure out how to do that. There's no magic pill. There's no magic diet. No one is going to do it for you. Get up off your ample *kitten* and do it for yourself and stop expecting those of us who've bothered to do the work to make way for you. If you won't do it yourself... Then put your really big girl (Or boy) panties on and remind yourself "sticks and stones..."
https://www.naafaonline.com/dev2/about/
"NAAFA: the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance
Founded in 1969, the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (NAAFA) is a non-profit, all volunteer, civil rights organization dedicated to protecting the rights and improving the quality of life for fat people. NAAFA works to eliminate discrimination based on body size and provide fat people with the tools for self-empowerment through advocacy, public education, and support.
Why Should I Support NAAFA?
Fat people are discriminated against in all aspects of daily life, from employment to education to access to public accommodations, and even access to adequate medical care. This discrimination occurs despite evidence that 95 to 98 percent of diets fail over five years and that 65 million Americans are labeled “obese.” Our thin-obsessed society firmly believes that fat people are at fault for their size and it is politically correct to stigmatize and ridicule them. Fat discrimination is one of the last publicly accepted discriminatory practices. Fat people have rights and they need to be upheld!
NAAFA’s message of size acceptance and self-acceptance is often overshadowed by a $49 billion-a-year diet industry that has a vested economic interest in perpetuating discrimination against fat people. Without active financial support from people like you, NAAFA would not exist and could not fulfill its crucial role defending your rights. While it is an uphill battle to achieve our goals, together we are making a difference."2 -
NAAFA: the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance
Founded in 1969, the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (NAAFA) is a non-profit, all volunteer, civil rights organization dedicated to protecting the rights and improving the quality of life for fat people. NAAFA works to eliminate discrimination based on body size and provide fat people with the tools for self-empowerment through advocacy, public education, and support.
Why Should I Support NAAFA?
Fat people are discriminated against in all aspects of daily life, from employment to education to access to public accommodations, and even access to adequate medical care. This discrimination occurs despite evidence that 95 to 98 percent of diets fail over five years and that 65 million Americans are labeled “obese.” Our thin-obsessed society firmly believes that fat people are at fault for their size and it is politically correct to stigmatize and ridicule them. Fat discrimination is one of the last publicly accepted discriminatory practices. Fat people have rights and they need to be upheld!
NAAFA’s message of size acceptance and self-acceptance is often overshadowed by a $49 billion-a-year diet industry that has a vested economic interest in perpetuating discrimination against fat people. Without active financial support from people like you, NAAFA would not exist and could not fulfill its crucial role defending your rights. While it is an uphill battle to achieve our goals, together we are making a difference.0 -
To the people who think socialized medicine or group pays are a bad thing, you have a rude awakening coming when you get older. you are going to beg for someone younger to help you stay alive.6
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Socialized medicine is a bad thing. Look at the countries that have it, it doesn't work. I am on two medical forums that are based out of the U.K. and people from all over the world are on it. One is a hip replacement forum and the other is a hemochromatosis forum. I have talked to many people from countries about the issues they have had with socialized medicine and it is not good at all.Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »To the people who think socialized medicine or group pays are a bad thing, you have a rude awakening coming when you get older. you are going to beg for someone younger to help you stay alive.
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peckchris3267 wrote: »Socialized medicine is a bad thing. Look at the countries that have it, it doesn't work. I am on two medical forums that are based out of the U.K. and people from all over the world are on it. One is a hip replacement forum and the other is a hemochromatosis forum. I have talked to many people from countries about the issues they have had with socialized medicine and it is not good at all.
My dad is alive because of it. So you are completely ignorant.7 -
anecdotal evidence does not make it the norm or make me completely ignorant. How many cancer patients die each year waiting for treatment. I'll tell you what the norm is. Someone with stage 3 cancer waiting so long for an appointment that by the time they see the doctor they have advanced to stage 4 cancer and then has to make another appointment and start the waiting all over again.Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »
My dad is alive because of it. So you are completely ignorant.
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