I don't support the fat acceptance/plus size movement.

Macy9336 wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

Macy9336 wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

Macy9336 wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

Gianfranco_R wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

heiliskrimsli wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

Geocitiesuser wrote: »

calorielogonly wrote: »

THE POINT IS....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I AM TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT AND WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE CARE?

That's the exact opposite of HAES/FA. HAES is insisting that fat is healthy and "beautiful". It is not. HAES is an active political movement to try to change people's perception of disgusting narcisists who think a political movement to be "beautiful" is less work than just eating less.

What specific laws are you concerned they will get passed or what specific things do you think they will achieve.

As I've mentioned, I don't see them as powerful or socially prominent at all, and if anything I find awareness of obesity as a health risk is nearly universal and certainly more common than it was when I was a kid.

The most concerning to me is getting weight added to the list of categories against which discrimination is illegal because in that case they can force cost-prohibitive accommodations on businesses, and and make it difficult not to hire (or to fire) employees whose weight is detrimental to their job performance.

In what kind of job would weight itself be detrimental to job performance? I understand lack of fitness being an issue, but I've worked in busy kitchens and warehouses with overweight people. Some of them did quite well, others didn't. I understand that many overweight people are unfit, but so are some thin people. I would rather evaluate someone by how they did a job.

policemen? firemen?

Wouldn't that be a fitness issue? Police officers and fire fighters have fitness tests. That wouldn't change if it became illegal to discriminate against overweight people. We'd eliminating the possibility of the presumption that overweight people are automatically unfit by the mere virtue of being overweight.

I fully anticipate that many (if not most) overweight people would fail the fitness tests. But since we have the test in place for those roles, why not go by that?

But if the fitness test is deemed to be discriminatory, the standards will be adjusted. This happened in the military. The fitness tests for Marines, Navy Seals, Army Rangers, etc had standards that were too high for women to physically do. They were deemed to be sexist and adjusted so that women could join up. Now when the military sets up teams, they never set up all women teams because they know the males will have to "help" the females through some of the more physically demanding bits ( carrying gear, getting over obstacles, lugging wounded around, etc). I'm not saying women should never be in the military, I am saying that if something is protected by anti discrimination laws, then fitness tests and other performance tests WILL be adjusted to accommodate.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't share your assumption.

All I'm saying is that weight itself shouldn't be considered detrimental to job performance. It doesn't follow that fitness tests (for jobs that require them) should be adjusted. For jobs without fitness tests, job performance can be a sufficient evaluation.

At least my "assumption" is based on the historical facts of how anti discrimination laws have affected fitness tests to accommodate less physically able people in the real world. Your assumption appears to be based on some sort of alternate reality. You're welcome to it.

My position is based on my actual experience hiring and supervising people in kitchens and warehouses, some of whom have been protected by various existing anti-discrimination laws. An anti-discrimination law doesn't change the fact that jobs can have fitness tests related to the demands of the job and it doesn't change the fact that employers can outline essential functions of the job that applicants must be able to perform.

If you're determined to dismiss actual experience, law, and current practices as "alternative reality," I guess there isn't much basis for this conversation to continue. I wish you the best.

Goodness me. So your experience in a kitchen qualifies you to dismiss my comment about fitness test adjustments in the military as a result of anti discrimination laws. Unfortunately, what you don't know is that I had 18yrs in the military retiring at the LtCol level so I am intimately familiar with what I am talking about. I honestly don't think kitchen or warehouse work really equates to jobs that were mentioned like police, firemen, military etc as much as you may think it does.

I suggest you stay in the kitchen and not critique comments that are obviously beyond your realm of experience.

I served in the military, and in kitchens and warehouses, and learned lessons from each place. I find your "stay in the kitchen" rather, well, I'll just leave it as Jack Nicholson-like.

You should never believe that it's okay for someone to remain overweight, but for me 'fat acceptance' is keeping high-horse opinions to yourself, not judging and never picking on someone for their weight. People who mock and disgrace those with weight issues have a distinct lack of humanity and basic decency.

Encourage them to change their lives, but don't hate on overweight people.

Well I've been overweight and it was nothing other than lack of discipline and gluttony that got me there. I'm ashamed I got like that and rightfully so...if that offends so be it.

Tropicoolblonde wrote: »

I would even say the majority of my friends are probably overweight or borderline overweight (66% of america is overweight or obese at this point).

What The kitten is "borderline overweight" . Now being "borderline overweight" is an indication one "doesn't care about their health"? This looks like moving goalposts to me.

I'm 60. Yes I said it out loud! I remember back when I was a teenager in the 70s I was one of the very few chubby girls in my high school and I went to a really large high school. We weren't called curvy - we were just called chunky or fat. Because that's what we were - by 70s standards.
At that time I might have been 15 pounds overweight! I think I was a size 9! So our concept of what is fat has even changed.
Fat has become The New Normal. When I walk into a high school now (I worked for school district) and see that 75% of the girls are overweight or obese it makes me really sad that we've done this to ourselves as a society. I'm not condoning harassing our bullying obese people, but this is the greatest public health crisis of our day. Obesity costs billions of dollars a year in lost productivity and healthcare costs. And we need to end this myth that you can be healthy when you're significantly overweight. It's just not true. As I said I don't ever want to demean people because I know how challenging it is to lose weight and then maintain that loss. But the fat acceptance movement is dangerous to humanity.

I'm a plus size and I don't think it's about encouraging or supporting obesity. Personally I think it's about making sure people who are obese and are overweight learn to love them self's and shouldn't feel as though they are an outcast of society or not beautiful. I'm not saying that obese is beautiful but regardless of our shape we all have both inner an outer beauty. I've lost 40 pounds so far and the only reason that this weight loss journey has been more successful than my other failed attempts is because I've learnt to love and accept my self. Yes I am overweight but my weight does not define me. We should all be wanting to lose weight for health reasons primarily over appearance. I do totally agree with you and obesity should not be promoted or looked at as normal or healthy. Any one who is overweight is at risk and is not at an optimal health level but similarly any one who is at thier ideal weight but eats junk all day and unhealthy is also at risk. For me the only way I was able to start losing weight was to learn to accept my self and realise that my weight did not define me nor was me being overweight something to feel un beautiful about. The more accepted I felt as an individual as apposed to identify my self solely as a fat person, the more motivated I became. I think fat acceptance and the plus size movement is aiming to help more people feel confident and secure which then has a positive effect on them, allowing then to realise thier self worth and hopefully do something about thier weight. Also many plus size are indeed on a weight loss journey and individuals shouldn't be shunned or put down untill they reach a healthy level of weight because it is unknown to us as to how much weight they may have already lost and for that they should be celebrated. It's not fair and it's demotivating to put obese people down. I think the more support and confidence the obese get the more likely they are to lose weight because they feel supported and confident. But I agree that no one should ever say it's okay to be obese purely because it's not and will effect health. What I don't agree with is telling some one they shouldn't be accepted or feel loved or have confidence because they are obese. That's negative and unsupportive and helps no one. The moment I was able to separate me being overweight and how I let my weight define me, I was able to say I love my self enough to become fit and healthy. And here I am.. 40 pounds lighter with more to go.

Love you all xxxx and don't forget to love your self. You will see more results that way xx

Body positivity is such a deceptive phrase. The thing about it is, yes, it's possible and good to love yourself no matter how you look, but you shouldn't give up and accept being at an unhealthy weight. There's a difference between being unhealthy and big, and being healthy and big because it's your body shape. Too many people don't understand this difference, in my opinion.

"I don't want to lose weight because I shouldn't have to conform to society's standards of how I should look!" This phrase is missing the point. Yes, there are needlessly cruel individuals out there who seem to think other people should look a certain way otherwise they're "imperfect"...but health is more important than looks.

Fat acceptance does not mean you should be fat and not do anything about it. It means you should love yourself no matter if other people treat you badly. I think it means you should treat yourself with reverence and not see yourself as having something wrong with you because of how you look. The purpose of this positivity is to see yourself as a person who is worth something and whose entire being has value, not to say "I'm fat/obese and I'm not going to change because why should I?" I do not think a lot of people understand the health side of it, and are mostly thinking of the social side of it.

I think HAES/body positivity/fat acceptance/etc is overall a very misunderstood movement. I would summarize the main points to be these:

1. HAES is Health at Every Size, not Healthy at Every Size. What this means is that anyone at any size is capable of making healthy food and exercise choices, even if it's just baby steps. No one is saying that a severely overweight person is the pinnacle of health unless they're delusional (in which case they're not really following the movement anyway).

2. Some people are overweight due to medical conditions. Some people are overweight due to overeating. No matter the reason, it's none of your business unless they share it with you. Overweight people are constantly subjected to uninvited criticism/judgement, probably moreso than any other demographic because our bodies are on display 24/7. And even if someone is making unhealthy choices (be it overeating, smoking, drinking, or whatever), that's their prerogative. Unless you're *very* close or you are specifically asked for help, keep the "advice" to yourself.

All that being said, everyone is allowed to feel confident, attractive, and happy. And no one is forcing you to change what you're sexually attracted to (which is one of the more ridiculous "complaints" I've seen about this movement). The point is just to show that people come in all shapes and sizes and no one is more or less worthy of love/respect than anyone else. Everyone deserves to feel good about themselves, no matter what choices they make or have made, and you're a real dick if you go out of your way to dull someone's sparkle.

TL;DR: Don't be a jerk. Respect everyone equally. Let people live their lives.