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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
Seriously?!? Smokers are banned everywhere. Restaurants, planes, bowling alleys, bars, you name it. Can't even come within X amount of feet from the front doors of buildings.
I'm sorry you feel so defensive about the subject. But I think your personal viewpoint is extreme.15 -
stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
You haven't been around many smokers then. Or haven't seen any cigarette packages in the past years.
Honestly, as a nonsmoker, I think that there's a fair amount of overreach... and it's one of the reasons I'm so vigorous about resisting the idea that the solution is more labelling.
The label could say "Hey moron, smoking is bad for you, you could get cancer or emphysema."
Instead, they now say "If you smoke another cigarette, you'll die tomorrow" or some comparable woo that makes the warning label less than useless.4 -
denversillygoose wrote: »You can be an athlete and be a "stoner" at the same time.
Michael Phelps?
also - what is a "stoner" to you?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1152611-25-elite-athletes-who-also-smoke-pot1 -
MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
Obesity is detrimental to physical health. It's hardly a weak measurement of health. If a person is obese and they have an unhealthy relationship with food, then yes they need to deal with that unhealthy relationship in order to achieve the goal of overcoming obesity because obesity kills.
What a ridiculous oversimplification. There is a correlation between obesity and some illnesses. And do you remember what was talked about in high school about the dangers of assuming causation vs correlation?
No, obesity has been proven to CAUSE deaths. In 2015 four MILLION people died worldwide due to excess body weight. You'd really tout a high school lecture on correlation vs. causation as the authority trumping thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide? The science is very clear that obesity kills. You're deluded if you just think "weight is your relationship with gravity" and nothing more.
you can think my argument is stupid or disagree with me but no scientist is going to say that obesity causes death. Show me that article. They all say it's linked or it can lead to a cause of death. Your weight is the result of over eating and/or a sedentary lifestyle. Overeating and/or a sedentary lifestyle? leads to excess weight. leads to several causes of death. Obesity doesn't literally kill you.
Any scientist would disagree with you. Being too large for your organs and primary systems to sustain life fulfills all the criteria of a repeatable and provable fact.
Per NIH obesity and overweight together are the second leading cause of preventable death in the U.S.
Where did The National Institute of Health print that? All I can find in a website claiming they said that but no proof.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/behindtheheadlines/news/2016-07-14-obesity-now-a-leading-cause-of-death-especially-in-men/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12230315
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-finds-extreme-obesity-may-shorten-life-expectancy-14-years
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1790820/5 -
jseams1234 wrote: »denversillygoose wrote: »You can be an athlete and be a "stoner" at the same time.
Michael Phelps?
also - what is "stoner" to you?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1152611-25-elite-athletes-who-also-smoke-pot
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stanmann571 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
You haven't been around many smokers then. Or haven't seen any cigarette packages in the past years.
Honestly, as a nonsmoker, I think that there's a fair amount of overreach... and it's one of the reasons I'm so vigorous about resisting the idea that the solution is more labelling.
The label could say "Hey moron, smoking is bad for you, you could get cancer or emphysema."
Instead, they now say "If you smoke another cigarette, you'll die tomorrow" or some comparable woo that makes the warning label less than useless.
It's been a while since I've seen one (quit smoking a long time ago). Did they change them to make them more dramatic? The ones I remember were like "Quitting smoking greatly reduces your health risk" or something like that. And another one about smoking being associated with low birth weight for infants.
Clearly they made a huge impression on me.
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MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
Are you searching for truth or are you trying to be right?
Two very different things, but only one road leads to success.8 -
MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
Are you searching for truth or are you trying to be right?
Two very different things, but only one road leads to success.
thanks dude I'm pretty happy with my level of success.
idk about where you guys live but I'm in a university town and so many people smoke. No one ever makes fun of them in the streets. They can buy cigarettes at any store. If you see a pic of someone smoking on fb, there aren't dozen of ppl mocking them and giving them *kitten*. Perhaps we're in different bubbles.1 -
i don't believe in being "buff"
i don't like sculpted ppl
i like ppl to be soft and not too slim
i like most women around a size 12 to 16
i don't know men's sizes so i'm not going there
but tummy ridges and veins popping out is just nasty to me9 -
jseams1234 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
Obesity is detrimental to physical health. It's hardly a weak measurement of health. If a person is obese and they have an unhealthy relationship with food, then yes they need to deal with that unhealthy relationship in order to achieve the goal of overcoming obesity because obesity kills.
What a ridiculous oversimplification. There is a correlation between obesity and some illnesses. And do you remember what was talked about in high school about the dangers of assuming causation vs correlation?
No, obesity has been proven to CAUSE deaths. In 2015 four MILLION people died worldwide due to excess body weight. You'd really tout a high school lecture on correlation vs. causation as the authority trumping thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide? The science is very clear that obesity kills. You're deluded if you just think "weight is your relationship with gravity" and nothing more.
you can think my argument is stupid or disagree with me but no scientist is going to say that obesity causes death. Show me that article. They all say it's linked or it can lead to a cause of death. Your weight is the result of over eating and/or a sedentary lifestyle. Overeating and/or a sedentary lifestyle? leads to excess weight. leads to several causes of death. Obesity doesn't literally kill you.
Any scientist would disagree with you. Being too large for your organs and primary systems to sustain life fulfills all the criteria of a repeatable and provable fact.
Per NIH obesity and overweight together are the second leading cause of preventable death in the U.S.
Where did The National Institute of Health print that? All I can find in a website claiming they said that but no proof.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/behindtheheadlines/news/2016-07-14-obesity-now-a-leading-cause-of-death-especially-in-men/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12230315
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-finds-extreme-obesity-may-shorten-life-expectancy-14-years
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1790820/
1. correlation study
2. says "linked" not causes death
3. says "may shorten" and is once again correlation
4. says it is a "risk factor" not causes death1 -
MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
Are you searching for truth or are you trying to be right?
Two very different things, but only one road leads to success.
thanks dude I'm pretty happy with my level of success.
idk about where you guys live but I'm in a university town and so many people smoke. No one ever makes fun of them in the streets. They can buy cigarettes at any store. If you see a pic of someone smoking on fb, there aren't dozen of ppl mocking them and giving them *kitten*. Perhaps we're in different bubbles.
Or perhaps you don't see what doesn't affect you.
I used to smoke and people would absolutely call me out when I was walking down the street. Or into a restaurant. When I was a waitress in a restaurant with a smoking section we would get activist groups come in specifically to harass the people in the smoking section. Anyone else remember those horrible truth.com people?9 -
MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
Are you searching for truth or are you trying to be right?
Two very different things, but only one road leads to success.
thanks dude I'm pretty happy with my level of success.
idk about where you guys live but I'm in a university town and so many people smoke. No one ever makes fun of them in the streets. They can buy cigarettes at any store. If you see a pic of someone smoking on fb, there aren't dozen of ppl mocking them and giving them *kitten*. Perhaps we're in different bubbles.
You're too inwardly focused. If you were a smoker who was inwardly focused you would find plenty to wallow in, even in your university town. Shifting focus to something else, even temporarily, may help you a lot or at least give you a break from all the negativity and rumination. This can take a toll on anyone.11 -
MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
Are you searching for truth or are you trying to be right?
Two very different things, but only one road leads to success.
thanks dude I'm pretty happy with my level of success.
idk about where you guys live but I'm in a university town and so many people smoke. No one ever makes fun of them in the streets. They can buy cigarettes at any store. If you see a pic of someone smoking on fb, there aren't dozen of ppl mocking them and giving them *kitten*. Perhaps we're in different bubbles.
Or perhaps you don't see what doesn't affect you.
I used to smoke and people would absolutely call me out when I was walking down the street. Or into a restaurant. When I was a waitress in a restaurant with a smoking section we would get activist groups come in specifically to harass the people in the smoking section.
I'm sorry to hear that. I do think it might just be accepted where I live. I have several good friends who smoke and have never heard any of this walking down the street with them.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
You haven't been around many smokers then. Or haven't seen any cigarette packages in the past years.
Honestly, as a nonsmoker, I think that there's a fair amount of overreach... and it's one of the reasons I'm so vigorous about resisting the idea that the solution is more labelling.
The label could say "Hey moron, smoking is bad for you, you could get cancer or emphysema."
Instead, they now say "If you smoke another cigarette, you'll die tomorrow" or some comparable woo that makes the warning label less than useless.
It's been a while since I've seen one (quit smoking a long time ago). Did they change them to make them more dramatic? The ones I remember were like "Quitting smoking greatly reduces your health risk" or something like that. And another one about smoking being associated with low birth weight for infants.
Clearly they made a huge impression on me.
Ours now have very graphic illustrations on them accompanying the health warnings.1 -
the9thresident wrote: »i don't believe in being "buff"
i don't like sculpted ppl
i like ppl to be soft and not too slim
i like most women around a size 12 to 16
i don't know men's sizes so i'm not going there
but tummy ridges and veins popping out is just nasty to me
To each their own, huh? When I personally see a pair of traps poppin', I just want to bite 'em.
13 -
MJ2victory wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
Obesity is detrimental to physical health. It's hardly a weak measurement of health. If a person is obese and they have an unhealthy relationship with food, then yes they need to deal with that unhealthy relationship in order to achieve the goal of overcoming obesity because obesity kills.
What a ridiculous oversimplification. There is a correlation between obesity and some illnesses. And do you remember what was talked about in high school about the dangers of assuming causation vs correlation?
No, obesity has been proven to CAUSE deaths. In 2015 four MILLION people died worldwide due to excess body weight. You'd really tout a high school lecture on correlation vs. causation as the authority trumping thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide? The science is very clear that obesity kills. You're deluded if you just think "weight is your relationship with gravity" and nothing more.
you can think my argument is stupid or disagree with me but no scientist is going to say that obesity causes death. Show me that article. They all say it's linked or it can lead to a cause of death. Your weight is the result of over eating and/or a sedentary lifestyle. Overeating and/or a sedentary lifestyle? leads to excess weight. leads to several causes of death. Obesity doesn't literally kill you.
Any scientist would disagree with you. Being too large for your organs and primary systems to sustain life fulfills all the criteria of a repeatable and provable fact.
Per NIH obesity and overweight together are the second leading cause of preventable death in the U.S.
Where did The National Institute of Health print that? All I can find in a website claiming they said that but no proof.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/behindtheheadlines/news/2016-07-14-obesity-now-a-leading-cause-of-death-especially-in-men/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12230315
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-finds-extreme-obesity-may-shorten-life-expectancy-14-years
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1790820/
1. correlation study
2. says "linked" not causes death
3. says "may shorten" and is once again correlation
4. says it is a "risk factor" not causes death
You are playing a semantic game to support an unreasonable position. Obesity is not a disease, but a physical state, as such is not singularly tracked. Perhaps you need to further study the semantic use of "linked", "correlation", "causation", and "risk" in these reports.
This is akin to stating that no one starves to death, but their organs eventually fail and that lack of nutrients poses a higher risk factor to those starving. The end point is still premature death, regardless of your semantics.
Curious - if so adamant with the notion that being obese is perfectly healthy then why did you join MFP?
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stevencloser wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
You haven't been around many smokers then. Or haven't seen any cigarette packages in the past years.
Honestly, as a nonsmoker, I think that there's a fair amount of overreach... and it's one of the reasons I'm so vigorous about resisting the idea that the solution is more labelling.
The label could say "Hey moron, smoking is bad for you, you could get cancer or emphysema."
Instead, they now say "If you smoke another cigarette, you'll die tomorrow" or some comparable woo that makes the warning label less than useless.
It's been a while since I've seen one (quit smoking a long time ago). Did they change them to make them more dramatic? The ones I remember were like "Quitting smoking greatly reduces your health risk" or something like that. And another one about smoking being associated with low birth weight for infants.
Clearly they made a huge impression on me.
Ours now have very graphic illustrations on them accompanying the health warnings.
same, and a warning that says it "destroys health and causes death". I remember when the labeling first started, we used to seek those packs because they're guaranteed to be "fresh".3 -
MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
Are you searching for truth or are you trying to be right?
Two very different things, but only one road leads to success.
thanks dude I'm pretty happy with my level of success.
idk about where you guys live but I'm in a university town and so many people smoke. No one ever makes fun of them in the streets. They can buy cigarettes at any store. If you see a pic of someone smoking on fb, there aren't dozen of ppl mocking them and giving them *kitten*. Perhaps we're in different bubbles.
I think that's a fair conclusion.2 -
MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
Are you searching for truth or are you trying to be right?
Two very different things, but only one road leads to success.
thanks dude I'm pretty happy with my level of success.
idk about where you guys live but I'm in a university town and so many people smoke. No one ever makes fun of them in the streets. They can buy cigarettes at any store. If you see a pic of someone smoking on fb, there aren't dozen of ppl mocking them and giving them *kitten*. Perhaps we're in different bubbles.
Nah they just aren't allowed to do it in most places and get graphic reminders about how they're slowly killing themselves every time they buy their vice.
How would you feel if every time you bought a loaf of bread it had a label saying "hey, obesity causes diabetes and heart disease, it makes you impotent, *kitten* with your hormones, you'll die earlier."3 -
stevencloser wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
You haven't been around many smokers then. Or haven't seen any cigarette packages in the past years.
Honestly, as a nonsmoker, I think that there's a fair amount of overreach... and it's one of the reasons I'm so vigorous about resisting the idea that the solution is more labelling.
The label could say "Hey moron, smoking is bad for you, you could get cancer or emphysema."
Instead, they now say "If you smoke another cigarette, you'll die tomorrow" or some comparable woo that makes the warning label less than useless.
It's been a while since I've seen one (quit smoking a long time ago). Did they change them to make them more dramatic? The ones I remember were like "Quitting smoking greatly reduces your health risk" or something like that. And another one about smoking being associated with low birth weight for infants.
Clearly they made a huge impression on me.
Ours now have very graphic illustrations on them accompanying the health warnings.
Here too.
I'll put a link, so people have the option of looking:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=Canada+cigarette+warning+labels&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjP2Nvt7OPUAhUq7IMKHeebDHEQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=6111 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
You haven't been around many smokers then. Or haven't seen any cigarette packages in the past years.
Honestly, as a nonsmoker, I think that there's a fair amount of overreach... and it's one of the reasons I'm so vigorous about resisting the idea that the solution is more labelling.
The label could say "Hey moron, smoking is bad for you, you could get cancer or emphysema."
Instead, they now say "If you smoke another cigarette, you'll die tomorrow" or some comparable woo that makes the warning label less than useless.
It's been a while since I've seen one (quit smoking a long time ago). Did they change them to make them more dramatic? The ones I remember were like "Quitting smoking greatly reduces your health risk" or something like that. And another one about smoking being associated with low birth weight for infants.
Clearly they made a huge impression on me.
Ours now have very graphic illustrations on them accompanying the health warnings.
Here too.
I'll put a link, so people have the option of looking:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=Canada+cigarette+warning+labels&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjP2Nvt7OPUAhUq7IMKHeebDHEQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=611
those seem pretty tame compared to a few I've seen here. Like a smoker's lung, a foot with a missing toe and stuff like that.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
Are you searching for truth or are you trying to be right?
Two very different things, but only one road leads to success.
thanks dude I'm pretty happy with my level of success.
idk about where you guys live but I'm in a university town and so many people smoke. No one ever makes fun of them in the streets. They can buy cigarettes at any store. If you see a pic of someone smoking on fb, there aren't dozen of ppl mocking them and giving them *kitten*. Perhaps we're in different bubbles.
Nah they just aren't allowed to do it in most places and get graphic reminders about how they're slowly killing themselves every time they buy their vice.
How would you feel if every time you bought a loaf of bread it had a label saying "hey, obesity causes diabetes and heart disease, it makes you impotent, *kitten* with your hormones, you'll die earlier."
* with pictures of cut open obese corpses, fat covered hearts and stuff like that.1 -
I never got *kitten* when I was a smoker. And I don't recall any warning on the packaging but the usual Surgeon General thing.
There are people don't want to date smokers because secondhand smoke is a legitimate health issue. Plenty of smokers don't experience health problems, sure, but plenty of non-smokers experience health problems from secondhand smoke. These bans aren't to *kitten* on smokers, they're to protect people from second hand smoke. Cry all yall want. You're not banned from places, you just can't smoke there. Smoking damages property too. Have you ever cleaned the paint, furniture, or blinds of a smoker's house? It's gross. The paint on the wall turns yellow.
But does a fat person damage another person's health by being fat? No, they don't. There's no basis for comparison at all. Being fat may raise the risk of certain diseases, but being fat in today's healthcare system is a hurdle onto itself.
I have an autoimmune disorder that went undiagnosed for a year because my doctor was chalking all my complaints up to being fat. My dermatologist wound up diagnosing me. This is purely anecdotal evidence from my own lived experiences and what I've heard from other fat women, but the healthcare system truly doesn't give a *kitten* about us. The focus on fighting obesity is actively harming us, I believe. When I had an eating disorder in my teens, I was severely underweight (BMI 15.5) but I was congratulated by my PCP for "staying fit." I want doctors to stop focusing on a person's BMI and focus on their actual health.
Furthermore, I think there should be more of an investigation on why people are becoming so obese. I.e: Poverty, the huge amount of sugar that's in everything, the cheapness of carbs vs protein. It's not helpful or productive to just shrug your shoulders and go "Well, guess she just doesn't love her body!" That's ridiculous, completely wrong-headed. And honestly, a rude thing to say when we're all on this website for the same reason: for our health.
---
Anyway here's my unpopular opinions:- Weighing every day will only set you up for failure.
- It's better to set a weekly calorie budget than a daily one. Sure, count your daily calories, but don't make it such a big deal to go over your daily budget, again just sets you up for failure.
- The fear mongering about GMO's is total bull, every single plant in every single grocery store is "Genetically Modified." We've modified them all in one way or another. Whether or not that modification was made through many generations of plants, or directly through their genetics doesn't matter. -- But please go ahead and label those that are GMO so I can snag a good deal and laugh at yall when yall buy an "organic" "heirloom" "non-gmo" cauliflower for $7.99-- Oh yeah, if you want a non-gmo version of cauliflower yall should be foraging for wild mustard.
- "Intermittent fasting" is total complete bull and really reminds me of my behavior when I had an ED.
13 -
Oh gosh, and here's the biggest unpopular opinion: Macros matter more than calories. If all your calories come from just fat, or just carbs, things probably aren't going to work for you. You need to calculate your macro needs!7
-
dybbukgirl wrote: »Oh gosh, and here's the biggest unpopular opinion: Macros matter more than calories. If all your calories come from just fat, or just carbs, things probably aren't going to work for you. You need to calculate your macro needs!
I bet that would be unpopular, because no one eats like that. I let my macros fall where they fall and it has worked for me.
ETA: I also weigh in every day and practice intermittent fasting sometimes when I feel like it. If anything, these strategies increased my chances for success because they made things easier for me.7 -
MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
Obesity is detrimental to physical health. It's hardly a weak measurement of health. If a person is obese and they have an unhealthy relationship with food, then yes they need to deal with that unhealthy relationship in order to achieve the goal of overcoming obesity because obesity kills.
What a ridiculous oversimplification. There is a correlation between obesity and some illnesses. And do you remember what was talked about in high school about the dangers of assuming causation vs correlation?
No, obesity has been proven to CAUSE deaths. In 2015 four MILLION people died worldwide due to excess body weight. You'd really tout a high school lecture on correlation vs. causation as the authority trumping thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide? The science is very clear that obesity kills. You're deluded if you just think "weight is your relationship with gravity" and nothing more.
you can think my argument is stupid or disagree with me but no scientist is going to say that obesity causes death. Show me that article. They all say it's linked or it can lead to a cause of death. Your weight is the result of over eating and/or a sedentary lifestyle. Overeating and/or a sedentary lifestyle? leads to excess weight. leads to several causes of death. Obesity doesn't literally kill you.
You're splitting hairs.
Let's play Law and Order: Obesity. If heart disease or diabetes was the murderer, obesity was the accessory to the crime and can be charged and found guilty because it directly led to the disease that caused the death.
The person who died from heart disease or diabetes likely would not have had it had they never been obese.9 -
This has turned weirdly anti wanting to be and agreeing with there being such a thing as an optimally healthy weight range. I don't recall ever being this hateful about others perfectly healthy behaviours when I was fat.
As for smoking, in the UK there are grotty pictures on the packaging and shops can lo longer display them for sale, they're kept in locked/shuttered cabinets.1 -
MJ2victory wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
Obesity is detrimental to physical health. It's hardly a weak measurement of health. If a person is obese and they have an unhealthy relationship with food, then yes they need to deal with that unhealthy relationship in order to achieve the goal of overcoming obesity because obesity kills.
What a ridiculous oversimplification. There is a correlation between obesity and some illnesses. And do you remember what was talked about in high school about the dangers of assuming causation vs correlation?
No, obesity has been proven to CAUSE deaths. In 2015 four MILLION people died worldwide due to excess body weight. You'd really tout a high school lecture on correlation vs. causation as the authority trumping thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide? The science is very clear that obesity kills. You're deluded if you just think "weight is your relationship with gravity" and nothing more.
you can think my argument is stupid or disagree with me but no scientist is going to say that obesity causes death. Show me that article. They all say it's linked or it can lead to a cause of death. Your weight is the result of over eating and/or a sedentary lifestyle. Overeating and/or a sedentary lifestyle? leads to excess weight. leads to several causes of death. Obesity doesn't literally kill you.
Semantics. Obesity = excess fat. When fat is unnaturally abundant it wrecks havoc with several systems. It's not an idle organ that just hangs there minding its own business. The mere act of being obese increases the risk for the top killer diseases. Is an active obese better off than an inactive obese? Sure, but an active lean person has better chances than both.
Semantics are important. Like the way you called fat people just "obese" and called thin people "lean person." Fun dehumanization in action. Why would "an obese" ever want to make healthy changes while being made to feel inhuman? We are not disagreeing, you just don't like my words. But they're important to me.
1. You twisted what amusedmonkey said. She didn't contrast an obese person vs. a fit lean person. She contrasted two categories of fit people - fit obese vs. fit lean people.
2. 'Obese' is a clinical term, it's medical terminology. It doesn't describe everything about a person other than their body weight relative to their height. You are the one conflating obesity and identity, thus dehumanizing people.8 -
dybbukgirl wrote: »Oh gosh, and here's the biggest unpopular opinion: Macros matter more than calories. If all your calories come from just fat, or just carbs, things probably aren't going to work for you. You need to calculate your macro needs!
Unless your goal was to die, of course. That's why no one does this.6 -
MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
People are constantly down on smokers.
It's a myth in the fat acceptance community that smokers don't get any flak.
Smoking is not socially acceptable, smokers are shunned, forced into designated areas to smoke. Smoking is heavily taxed. Smoking is disincentivized in several countries with graphic pictures on packages of cigarettes of the consequences of smoking.
Note: I don't smoke. I think it's disgusting and can't even stand walking by people who smoke in the grocery store because the smell of it on their clothes makes me feel nauseated.8
This discussion has been closed.
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