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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
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Carlos_421 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I finally have a place to say this
Not all calories are equal. Calories from a hot fudge brownie sundae is going to affect your body differently than equivalent amount of calories from broccoli and a nice piece of steak. one is going to satiate and make you energized the other will leave you hungry and lethargic. The whole world knows this (even if they don't practice it) but you get death threats if you express this on MFP. So that is my "unpopular health/fitness opinion" wow that feels good. LOL
@Rivers2k Did you truly get death threats on this board for expressing that? That's something I'd take very seriously. Deets?
No I was exaggerating. I don't post often I mostly lurk and now I know I have to be so careful of what and how I say things. I was saying the CICO people are very passionate about saying there is no difference in calories so eat what ever you want.
As part of the CICO crowd I can say that there is no difference in calories for weight loss only. For general health, hunger, satiety, energy levels, etc. different foods in different combinations will have different effects. But CICO is only meant to be applied for weight loss. And as part of the CICO crowd, I'm not fond of the suggestion, even in jest, that we're handing out death threats. Posts like that, imo, are why so many people here read the advice they get as hostile, angry, or bullying.
Many times it does come across as bullying. case in point I made a light hearted post about calories and people felt the need to defend the almighty Carb. Trust me when I say I don't really care, my feelings aren't hurt. I am sure you are all really great people and I truly mean that. but if a bunch of people jump on someone with a different opinion then it comes accross as bullying. I am not saying this time it was like that but I do see it on here allot. one of the many reasons I dont post much.
People need to understand what the person is trying to say instead of picking apart every word.
Pointing out the inaccuracies of your statement is not bullying. Not even close.
And we understand your point. Your point is that CICO proponents claim that nutrition doesn't matter and you can eat all the junk food with no consequences so long as you count the calories.
Your claim is false.
YES! exactly what I was saying! It might be false but that is the way it comes across I don't see anyone trying to clarify it. Someone made a post here about breakfast wraps she described some symptoms I have with carbs. I suggested leaving out the wrap and people jumped all over me chanting carbs for energy! I was just making a suggestion. That was one of my last posts.
People need to take the intent of message and not pick apart every word. I even agreed with your first post.
I know the difference between calories and nutrition
I know carbs play apart in fueling your body (and how this went from calories to carbs I don't know)
I am not a low carb person
I just think that people can get out of hand with CICO. I may be wrong that is just what I see. And wow I try to point out the error in what is bolded above heaven help me.
please find me this person that is advocating a nutrient deficient diet and that it is ok to eat cookies all day as long as you are in a deficit..
*I have been asking this question for over two years now, and no one has ever been able to answer it...
tbh I lost 80 lbs that way with people congratulating the *kitten* out of me every step of the way. People might not be forthcoming about it, but it happens.3 -
MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?0 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »
You have the right to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is...3 -
26
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Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.0 -
It drives me bonkers when someone comments on my weight loss, and then tells me how I should try the keto diet.9
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I finally have a place to say thisNot all calories are equal. Calories from a hot fudge brownie sundae is going to affect your body differently than equivalent amount of calories from broccoli and a nice piece of steak.
Calories is often misused to mean food, but that's not what it means. It's a unit of measurement for energy.
OBVIOUSLY (and it's not an unpopular opinion, everyone agrees), a sundae is different in many ways from a steak or from broccoli. They have different macros, different calories per volume and serving, are not identically satiating (although that differs person to person), have different micros, may trigger a specific person to eat more, may be tasty or not for a person, so on and so on.
NONE of this means, however, that the calories are not equal, as a calorie is just energy, a specific unit thereof.
There's not really such a thing as a "calorie of hot fudge sundae" or a "steak calorie." The steak and the broccoli and the sundae provide your body with a bunch of things, that your body breaks down, including calories. Your body cannot tell that a particular calorie is from a particular food.
I think -- and this may or may not be an unpopular opinion, again -- that most people who claim that not all calories are equal are confusing "calorie" with "food" or using it as a metaphor for food without realizing it's just a metaphor.
I also think that most people who complain that their view that foods are different are unpopular are misreading what other people say, and I am always confused about how they manage to do this after all the many, many explanations. I think it's just that they cannot get their head around the fact that calorie means something other than "unit of a specific food" and indeed, that using calorie to mean food is an imprecise, metaphorical usage and not a particularly helpful one.
You also shouldn't assert something hyperbolic like getting death threats when that's not at all true, it's defamatory and harms discussion. (In the off chance I'm wrong here, you should alert MFP, as someone is mentally screwed up and it has nothing to do with views on nutrition.)
I am aware of what a calorie is. Just saying 100 calories of hot fudge is going to have a different affect on someone from 100 calories of steak.
No, you are continuing to misuse "calorie." A hot fudge sundae (even one that contains just 100 calories) is going to have different effects on the body and contribute different micros and macros than a steak (or a piece that contains 100 calories). BUT there's really no such thing as a steak calorie or a sundae calorie.But the CICO crowd says nope its all the same.
No, no one says this. You are misunderstanding, and I really don't see how it's possible.
Now, 2000 calories of a generally nutritious diet that including adequate protein and 2000 calories of a diet low in micros that contains adequate protein might well have the same effect on weight loss, all else equal (although it likely will not be), but acknowledging that -- which is what CICO says -- is NOT the same thing as saying different foods don't have different qualities and affects. You have made that bit up as a strawman to argue against.3 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I finally have a place to say thisNot all calories are equal. Calories from a hot fudge brownie sundae is going to affect your body differently than equivalent amount of calories from broccoli and a nice piece of steak. one is going to satiate and make you energized the other will leave you hungry and lethargic. The whole world knows this (even if they don't practice it) but you get death threats if you express this on MFP. So that is my "unpopular health/fitness opinion" wow that feels good. LOL
@Rivers2k Did you truly get death threats on this board for expressing that? That's something I'd take very seriously. Deets?
No I was exaggerating. I don't post often I mostly lurk and now I know I have to be so careful of what and how I say things. I was saying the CICO people are very passionate about saying there is no difference in calories so eat what ever you want.
As part of the CICO crowd I can say that there is no difference in calories for weight loss only. For general health, hunger, satiety, energy levels, etc. different foods in different combinations will have different effects. But CICO is only meant to be applied for weight loss. And as part of the CICO crowd, I'm not fond of the suggestion, even in jest, that we're handing out death threats. Posts like that, imo, are why so many people here read the advice they get as hostile, angry, or bullying.
Many times it does come across as bullying. case in point I made a light hearted post about calories and people felt the need to defend the almighty Carb. Trust me when I say I don't really care, my feelings aren't hurt. I am sure you are all really great people and I truly mean that. but if a bunch of people jump on someone with a different opinion then it comes accross as bullying. I am not saying this time it was like that but I do see it on here allot. one of the many reasons I dont post much.
People need to understand what the person is trying to say instead of picking apart every word.
Pointing out the inaccuracies of your statement is not bullying. Not even close.
And we understand your point. Your point is that CICO proponents claim that nutrition doesn't matter and you can eat all the junk food with no consequences so long as you count the calories.
Your claim is false.
YES! exactly what I was saying! It might be false but that is the way it comes across I don't see anyone trying to clarify it.
Argh, as someone who has explained in detail repeatedly and repeatedly tries to clear up misunderstandings like the one you purport to have, I have to say that's simply not true and I don't think it can come across that way unless you for some reason want it to.
I think that the only way to understand the continuation of this tiresome argument is that some people really, really want to believe that others (the so called CICO crowd) are saying that nutrition does not matter and therefore misrepresent or try to misunderstand what is said. I really don't see how someone can read most threads on MFP and say people are saying foods are identical and what you eat doesn't matter. And this idea that only you care about nutrition and the rest of us do not is not only false, it's insulting and seems like a way to try to claim that you are somehow more concerned about health than we are.
And saying that carbs (specifically fast carbs) contribute energy and are helpful in sports and so on IS a way of saying foods are different. If all foods were the same no one would consume gels in a race, or at least they'd be as likely to eat numerous other harder to digest things with more fat and protein.5 -
stevencloser wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »I finally have a place to say thisNot all calories are equal. Calories from a hot fudge brownie sundae is going to affect your body differently than equivalent amount of calories from broccoli and a nice piece of steak. one is going to satiate and make you energized the other will leave you hungry and lethargic. The whole world knows this (even if they don't practice it) but you get death threats if you express this on MFP. So that is my "unpopular health/fitness opinion" wow that feels good. LOL
You are confusing calories with food.
The calories in the sundae and the calories in the steak and broccoli would be exactly the same (assuming proportionate amounts of food to provide an equal number of calories) in that the calories from each would provide the same amount of energy (calories are nothing but a measurement of energy) to fuel the body.
Thus, either food choice would have the exact same impact on weight loss/gain/maintenance as they would result in an identical energy balance.
The difference between a sundae and a steak lies not in the calories but in the nutritional profile. A sundae will not have as much fiber or micronutrients as the broccoli and not as much protein as the steak. This has nothing to do with calories and nothing to do with weight loss.
If the calorie count between two diets is equal, the weight loss from both diets will be equal (assuming activity levels remain equal as well).
Saying "all calories are equal" does not mean that all foods are equal or that all foods have similar nutritional profiles or that all foods will leave you equally satiated. It means that 2,000 calories from candy and 2,000 calories from vegetables will have equal impacts on body weight. That is all.
ETA: This reply is not a death threat against you. Simply an explanation for why your statement is incorrect.
I was thinking, when @Rivers2k first posted, was that the sundae would actually fuel my heavy lifting better than the steak. Carbs for energy!
And I was thinking that the sundae would leave me feeling full longer than the steak. Meat and veggies alone don't leave me feeling full for very long (important to note since most of the "not all calories are equal" people tend to forget that "not all people's experiences with satiety are equal").
That is very true, not all people work the same. Carbs give me to much of a rush in to short of a time leaving me feeling depleted. Be careful lumping people because I never once said everyone has the same experience. I could say the same about the CICO crowd and they are very vocal about it.
Also just like not all calories are the same not all Carbs are the same (simple vs complex). I don't see athletes carbo loading with hotfudge they tend to use complex carbs.
But at the end of the day is my unpopular opinion nobody else has to like it.
I have yet to see an endurance cyclist pulling out 10 pounds of celery from their backpack instead of a pack of gummy bears or those glucose gels.I'm Haribo Gummy Bears and Tootsie Pops kinda guy. Best fuel out there.Carlos_421 wrote: »
First off, I don't at all agree with any of the rest of what @Rivers2k is saying. However, you all aren't really talking about carb-loading, are you?
My understanding is that carb-loading specifically refers to attempting to maximize liver glycogen in preparation for the event. That'd be the meals you eat prior, not the Gus or jelly beans you eat during. And for those meals, most of the recommendations I see are complex carbs (pasta, bread, potatoes, rice, etc).
Though to be honest, the reason I wouldn't eat a hot fudge sundae the day before a race has nothing to do with the type of carb anyway. Dairy (and a lot of other foods) are dodgy for my intestinal system during a long, hard run. The day before would not be enough time to ensure it wouldn't cause gastrointestinal distress.
Exactly what I was about to say about the carbo loading and complex carbs (which are indeed used).
I find dairy easy to digest and often have a plain 0% Fage before a run (well, back when I used to eat before running more often), and once upon a time I'd often have a banana and a glass of skim milk. I STILL wouldn't have the sundae because it's high fat, which for me is not great if the goal is to fuel a run (I am trying to be fat adapted now, but that means I generally don't fuel most runs, not that I'd have fat beforehand, as that would not sit well with me). Also, I'd still fuel a marathon with some carbs, no doubt.2 -
MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
Obesity is detrimental to physical health. It's hardly a weak measurement of health. If a person is obese and they have an unhealthy relationship with food, then yes they need to deal with that unhealthy relationship in order to achieve the goal of overcoming obesity because obesity kills.14 -
MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
I think that thinking everyone has to have the same motivation/goal is a bit off-putting and rather assumptive on your part.
People are overweight or obese for a wide variety of reasons, and as such, their motivations for losing weight are going to vary, and in many cases there will likely be more than one reason.
9 -
Yeah. I didn't really care about my weight until my health suffered and my doctor told me that weight-loss was the single best thing I could do to manage my condition. So, yeah, I can only speak for myself, but weightloss and avoidance of lymphedema flare-ups are pretty well intertwined at this point. Health is the goal and weightloss is the process.4
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Why does what someone eats matter so much to folks against IIFYM?
4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I think most objections to "eat what you want within your calories" assume, weirdly, that people won't want to eat a balanced diet or will want to eat a nutrient poor or even all junk food diet and won't care how the diet makes him or her feel in deciding what he or she wants to do.
I often (perhaps unfairly) wonder why the person is making those assumptions -- would that person actually WANT to eat a low nutrient diet and not eat vegetables, etc? Or does that person just look down on others and assume they aren't sensible?
I can provide at least somewhat of an answer. Because of people that have been observed IRL doing exactly that. I have been baffled to watch men and women of various ages and places in life, not just younguns, decide that it was perfectly okay to eat ONLY fast food as long as it was in their calorie limit. A couple months go by and these people are explaining to the doctor how awful they feel, and is it a virus? Doctor does bloodwork and says WTF did you eat? And that's where I'm facepalming and saying I TRIED TO TELL YOU when they are relaying all this to me as though it's surprising.4 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
Obesity is detrimental to physical health. It's hardly a weak measurement of health. If a person is obese and they have an unhealthy relationship with food, then yes they need to deal with that unhealthy relationship in order to achieve the goal of overcoming obesity because obesity kills.
What a ridiculous oversimplification. There is a correlation between obesity and some illnesses. And do you remember what was talked about in high school about the dangers of assuming causation vs correlation?0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
I think that thinking everyone has to have the same motivation/goal is a bit off-putting and rather assumptive on your part.
People are overweight or obese for a wide variety of reasons, and as such, their motivations for losing weight are going to vary, and in many cases there will likely be more than one reason.
but my opinion is that the goal of losing weight is disordered5 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I think most objections to "eat what you want within your calories" assume, weirdly, that people won't want to eat a balanced diet or will want to eat a nutrient poor or even all junk food diet and won't care how the diet makes him or her feel in deciding what he or she wants to do.
I often (perhaps unfairly) wonder why the person is making those assumptions -- would that person actually WANT to eat a low nutrient diet and not eat vegetables, etc? Or does that person just look down on others and assume they aren't sensible?
I can provide at least somewhat of an answer. Because of people that have been observed IRL doing exactly that. I have been baffled to watch men and women of various ages and places in life, not just younguns, decide that it was perfectly okay to eat ONLY fast food as long as it was in their calorie limit. A couple months go by and these people are explaining to the doctor how awful they feel, and is it a virus? Doctor does bloodwork and says WTF did you eat? And that's where I'm facepalming and saying I TRIED TO TELL YOU when they are relaying all this to me as though it's surprising.
So what? That's their perogative. This stuff happens to people that eat supposedly healthy food too.
Why is fast food always the devil?2 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Yeah. I didn't really care about my weight until my health suffered and my doctor told me that weight-loss was the single best thing I could do to manage my condition. So, yeah, I can only speak for myself, but weightloss and avoidance of lymphedema flare-ups are pretty well intertwined at this point. Health is the goal and weightloss is the process.
I don't agree with your doctor5 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Why does what someone eats matter so much to folks against IIFYM?
I think it was H.L. Mencken who described Puritianism as the "the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, is happy."
I think there's a hefty dollop of that going on sometimes. When people are making nutritional changes they think of as sacrifices, it's upsetting to think that other people are meeting their goals without making those sacrifices.
(Quote may not be exact, I'm going from memory here).22 -
MJ2victory wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
I think that thinking everyone has to have the same motivation/goal is a bit off-putting and rather assumptive on your part.
People are overweight or obese for a wide variety of reasons, and as such, their motivations for losing weight are going to vary, and in many cases there will likely be more than one reason.
but my opinion is that the goal of losing weight is disordered
It's disordered for YOU.
Your therapist told you all that stuff because you took your eating behaviors to an unhealthy place mentally. Not everyone does that. For most of us it's a simple matter of being over-weight and deciding to do whatever it takes to not be over-weight any more. That means learning about the calories in the food we are eating, and eating less. The obsession/anxiety is a totally different thing and that's the mental health side. The tools your therapist is giving you may or may not work for you for the rest of your life. Time will tell.
You'll look back at this some day and understand, but I know you're not there yet.24
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