Is dairy actually bad for you?
Replies
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savedbygrace1007 wrote: »Watch the documentary Forks over knives
Forks Over Knives isn't a "documentary". It's a biased, one-sided hack job with an agenda, filled with junk science and half-truths.
If I'm going to watch fiction, I at least want it to be enjoyable.
Your opinion.
There is a quite science behind those movements. It is reckless to get the baby thrown out with the bathwater.
http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/health-concerns-about-dairy-productsConclusions
Milk and dairy products are not necessary in the diet and can, in fact, be harmful to health. It is best to consume a healthful diet of grains, fruits, vegetables, legumes, and fortified foods including cereals and juices. These nutrient-dense foods can help you meet your calcium, potassium, riboflavin, and vitamin D requirements with ease—and without facing the health risks associated with dairy product consumption.
So basically, you jump from the propaganda piece 'Forks over Knives' to the propaganda site PCRM to try and prove your point?!?
Don't make me say stuff I didn't wrote, that's silly. Seeing your little attitude, I am not interested to discuss further with you.15 -
I can't believe nobody in this thread has referenced milking a cat!1
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savedbygrace1007 wrote: »Watch the documentary Forks over knives
Forks Over Knives isn't a "documentary". It's a biased, one-sided hack job with an agenda, filled with junk science and half-truths.
If I'm going to watch fiction, I at least want it to be enjoyable.
Your opinion.
There is a quite science behind those movements. It is reckless to get the baby thrown out with the bathwater.
http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/health-concerns-about-dairy-productsConclusions
Milk and dairy products are not necessary in the diet and can, in fact, be harmful to health. It is best to consume a healthful diet of grains, fruits, vegetables, legumes, and fortified foods including cereals and juices. These nutrient-dense foods can help you meet your calcium, potassium, riboflavin, and vitamin D requirements with ease—and without facing the health risks associated with dairy product consumption.
So basically, you jump from the propaganda piece 'Forks over Knives' to the propaganda site PCRM to try and prove your point?!?
Don't make me say stuff I didn't wrote, that's silly. Seeing your little attitude, I am not interested to discuss further with you.
YOU were the one who quoted the PCRM site as the quote directly from you shows. And you are not interested in a discussion because you have already made up your mind on the matter and don't care what anybody who disagrees with you has to say...8 -
paperpudding wrote: »The main reason, I think, for the evolutionary advantage was the cold weather climate - pre refridgeration, when most human evolution took place since refrideration is new in historical terms, milk could not be kept in hot climates. Most people don't drink milk directly from the animal so if it can't be stored it is useless as a food.
Not because there wouldn't be access to the source - goats live in hot dry climates and some cattle live in India, for example and not because there were so many alternative foods as there are obviously parts of the world outside Europe where that is not so.
But cheese and yogurt (among others) are milk-storage strategies with long history, certainly pre-refrigeration. Cheese has been around for at least 7000 years, and yogurt is believed to have been, also. An early version of paneer seems to have been developed in South Asia perhaps 1500-2000 years ago, though I'm not sure about paneer's keeping qualities.
And why do you say people don't drink milk directly from the animal? My parents/grandparents certainly did, pre-refrigeration in their world . . . unless we're quibbling about the pail, ladle, and glass between cow and lips?
Certainly - as with many other foods - the supply was seasonally variable.
Many regions (not all) had food-cooling strategies of long history pre-refrigeration, too: Caves, springs, ice-houses, at least, and probably others.1 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »You can develop an intolerance or allergy at any time of your life, regardless of whether you've been eating it for years.
IMO dairy is very tasty, relatively cheap and an easy source of protein for humans but NOT healthy or ideal. No other species goes and sucks on another species once it's weaned so why do we gobble the milk of other animals? The answer is because it's been heavily marketed to us and it tastes great especially with all that other *kitten* added to it. Hence why so many people do develop an intolerance to it at some point.
We are biologically programmed to eat our own species milk (ie breast milk) until weaning age which should be around 2-6 years of age. After that we have absolutely no evolutionary or biological need for milk.
In other news, humans are also the only species which use computers, drive cars, have a written language, exchange currency, own televisions, refrigerate/preserve/cook our food, etc.
That logic is completely invalid.
Seriously. The answer to the bolded part is simply "because we can". I've seen cattle where one cow is sulking from her mother while her calk is sulking from her. I'm sure if the horse could get in there they would.
I have actually seen a cow feed a foal after its mare died until another mare could be found to do foster the foal. It's not unheard of for any mammal to drink other mammals' milk. It's not what I would call common, but growing up on a farm I saw it often enough that it stopped surprising me.2 -
And why do you say people don't drink milk directly from the animal? My parents/grandparents certainly did, pre-refrigeration in their world . . . unless we're quibbling about the pail, ladle, and glass between cow and lips? Certainly - as with many other foods - the supply was seasonally variable.
My family certainly used milk the day we milked the cow, but we also slow pasteurized and sold/bartered milk/butter/cottage cheese to other people. We also made butter and cottage cheese for ourselves. Butter probably two times a week for the family and cottage cheese once a week to 10 days.
We could and did refrigerate it by the time I came along, of course. Raw milk is a trade off, IMO. It tastes better, but you have to use it fast.1 -
stevencloser wrote: »You can develop an intolerance or allergy at any time of your life, regardless of whether you've been eating it for years.
IMO dairy is very tasty, relatively cheap and an easy source of protein for humans but NOT healthy or ideal. No other species goes and sucks on another species once it's weaned so why do we gobble the milk of other animals? The answer is because it's been heavily marketed to us and it tastes great especially with all that other *kitten* added to it. Hence why so many people do develop an intolerance to it at some point.
We are biologically programmed to eat our own species milk (ie breast milk) until weaning age which should be around 2-6 years of age. After that we have absolutely no evolutionary or biological need for milk.
Most animals, when given the chance, will drink another animal's milk.
And most dint tolerate it. They simply like the taste. Both nu cat and my dog will gobble cows milk but will have violent diarrhea from it.
My dog tolerates dairy just fine. We also have no biologic need for carrots, or kale, or chicken, but we eat those, too.
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stevencloser wrote: »You can develop an intolerance or allergy at any time of your life, regardless of whether you've been eating it for years.
IMO dairy is very tasty, relatively cheap and an easy source of protein for humans but NOT healthy or ideal. No other species goes and sucks on another species once it's weaned so why do we gobble the milk of other animals? The answer is because it's been heavily marketed to us and it tastes great especially with all that other *kitten* added to it. Hence why so many people do develop an intolerance to it at some point.
We are biologically programmed to eat our own species milk (ie breast milk) until weaning age which should be around 2-6 years of age. After that we have absolutely no evolutionary or biological need for milk.
Most animals, when given the chance, will drink another animal's milk.
And most dint tolerate it. They simply like the taste. Both nu cat and my dog will gobble cows milk but will have violent diarrhea from it.
My dog tolerates dairy just fine. We also have no biologic need for carrots, or kale, or chicken, but we eat those, too.
My dog will shift mountains for cheese, and has no gastric issues from it. He will also eat carrots, kale, chicken, dill pickles and anything else that lands on the floor.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Do people hand out pamphlets with that crap about puss and hormones and "only for baby cows"? The amount of people saying exactly the same thing in every thread about milk is astounding.
Yeah, I think it's spread on certain kinds of websites. It's sad some people give things they want to believe so little critical thought as most of these things just don't pass the red face test.
It's PUS, PUS, see, gross, you don't want to consume something GROSS.
No, get it, cows are FAT, if you drink milk you will be FAT like cows.
Other animals don't have dairy farms, so humans shouldn't either. (I still want a response to the fact that other animals don't have ANY farms, or that cats don't eat vegetables. Does that mean we should do that too?)
One of my cats loved McDonald's fries, so I guess those must be OK. 4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Do people hand out pamphlets with that crap about puss and hormones and "only for baby cows"? The amount of people saying exactly the same thing in every thread about milk is astounding.
Yeah, I think it's spread on certain kinds of websites. It's sad some people give things they want to believe so little critical thought as most of these things just don't pass the red face test.
It's PUS, PUS, see, gross, you don't want to consume something GROSS.
No, get it, cows are FAT, if you drink milk you will be FAT like cows.
Other animals don't have dairy farms, so humans shouldn't either. (I still want a response to the fact that other animals don't have ANY farms, or that cats don't eat vegetables. Does that mean we should do that too?)
One of my cats loved McDonald's fries, so I guess those must be OK.
We had a cat that would lose its beans over baked pumpkin. Go figure.4 -
Haven't seen it mentioned yet but salt / sodium / preservatives in fast food, heat and eat food, soups etc. can cause water retention. It's a problem for me anyway.
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Alatariel75 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Do people hand out pamphlets with that crap about puss and hormones and "only for baby cows"? The amount of people saying exactly the same thing in every thread about milk is astounding.
Yeah, I think it's spread on certain kinds of websites. It's sad some people give things they want to believe so little critical thought as most of these things just don't pass the red face test.
It's PUS, PUS, see, gross, you don't want to consume something GROSS.
No, get it, cows are FAT, if you drink milk you will be FAT like cows.
Other animals don't have dairy farms, so humans shouldn't either. (I still want a response to the fact that other animals don't have ANY farms, or that cats don't eat vegetables. Does that mean we should do that too?)
One of my cats loved McDonald's fries, so I guess those must be OK.
We had a cat that would lose its beans over baked pumpkin. Go figure.
One of my cats enjoys pumpkin too. It's supposed to have some health benefits. My parents' cat had an issue with his anal glands (TMI, cat version) and the vet suggested including some pumpkin in his diet.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Do people hand out pamphlets with that crap about puss and hormones and "only for baby cows"? The amount of people saying exactly the same thing in every thread about milk is astounding.
Yeah, I think it's spread on certain kinds of websites. It's sad some people give things they want to believe so little critical thought as most of these things just don't pass the red face test.
It's PUS, PUS, see, gross, you don't want to consume something GROSS.
No, get it, cows are FAT, if you drink milk you will be FAT like cows.
Other animals don't have dairy farms, so humans shouldn't either. (I still want a response to the fact that other animals don't have ANY farms, or that cats don't eat vegetables. Does that mean we should do that too?)
One of my cats loved McDonald's fries, so I guess those must be OK.
We had a cat that would lose its beans over baked pumpkin. Go figure.
One of my cats enjoys pumpkin too. It's supposed to have some health benefits. My parents' cat had an issue with his anal glands (TMI, cat version) and the vet suggested including some pumpkin in his diet.
I feed my dog canned pumpkin if she's constipated - she loves the stuff and it works great.
My cat is nuts about tomatoes, but won't touch pumpkin.0 -
I find it interesting that in a book I have about eating according to your blood type (I'm an O) Dr. Christenson says my blood type shouldn't eat dairy, except sour cream, which I LOVE & one type of cheese. Some ppl swear by eating according to their blood type, some not. Also interesting is I eat mostly the foods that are on my beneficial or neutral list & don't care so much for foods that aren't (before I read the book) this is not here or there, just made me think of it.16
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I find it interesting that in a book I have about eating according to your blood type (I'm an O) Dr. Christenson says my blood type shouldn't eat dairy, except sour cream, which I LOVE & one type of cheese. Some ppl swear by eating according to their blood type, some not. Also interesting is I eat mostly the foods that are on my beneficial or neutral list & don't care so much for foods that aren't (before I read the book) this is not here or there, just made me think of it.
There was a woman who swore by eating by her blood type, had never felt better. Swore by it.
... found out she was wrong about her bloody type and ought to have been eating the opposite way according to that book.16 -
I find it interesting that in a book I have about eating according to your blood type (I'm an O) Dr. Christenson says my blood type shouldn't eat dairy, except sour cream, which I LOVE & one type of cheese. Some ppl swear by eating according to their blood type, some not. Also interesting is I eat mostly the foods that are on my beneficial or neutral list & don't care so much for foods that aren't (before I read the book) this is not here or there, just made me think of it.
It really makes no sense that blood type would have anything to do with diet.
I'm type B, and apparently the blood type diet says I should consume lots of dairy, am of the blood type that does best with it. Oddly enough, B is quite uncommon in many of the same parts of Europe that have very low levels of lactose intolerance and is most common in some of the specific parts of Asia where people are mostly lactose intolerant.
It also says I should not eat chicken, but should eat goat. I actually like goat (and enjoy goat's milk and cheese and yogurt), but I don't seem to have any negative reactions to chicken either. (Forget if eggs are also supposed to be an issue.)3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I find it interesting that in a book I have about eating according to your blood type (I'm an O) Dr. Christenson says my blood type shouldn't eat dairy, except sour cream, which I LOVE & one type of cheese. Some ppl swear by eating according to their blood type, some not. Also interesting is I eat mostly the foods that are on my beneficial or neutral list & don't care so much for foods that aren't (before I read the book) this is not here or there, just made me think of it.
It really makes no sense that blood type would have anything to do with diet.
I'm type B, and apparently the blood type diet says I should consume lots of dairy, am of the blood type that does best with it. Oddly enough, B is quite uncommon in many of the same parts of Europe that have very low levels of lactose intolerance and is most common in some of the specific parts of Asia where people are mostly lactose intolerant.
It also says I should not eat chicken, but should eat goat. I actually like goat (and enjoy goat's milk and cheese and yogurt), but I don't seem to have any negative reactions to chicken either. (Forget if eggs are also supposed to be an issue.)
It's like astrology for food.11 -
paperpudding wrote: »The main reason, I think, for the evolutionary advantage was the cold weather climate - pre refridgeration, when most human evolution took place since refrideration is new in historical terms, milk could not be kept in hot climates. Most people don't drink milk directly from the animal so if it can't be stored it is useless as a food.
Not because there wouldn't be access to the source - goats live in hot dry climates and some cattle live in India, for example and not because there were so many alternative foods as there are obviously parts of the world outside Europe where that is not so.
But cheese and yogurt (among others) are milk-storage strategies with long history, certainly pre-refrigeration. Cheese has been around for at least 7000 years, and yogurt is believed to have been, also. An early version of paneer seems to have been developed in South Asia perhaps 1500-2000 years ago, though I'm not sure about paneer's keeping qualities.
And why do you say people don't drink milk directly from the animal? My parents/grandparents certainly did, pre-refrigeration in their world . . . unless we're quibbling about the pail, ladle, and glass between cow and lips? Certainly - as with many other foods - the supply was seasonally variable.
Many regions (not all) had food-cooling strategies of long history pre-refrigeration, too: Caves, springs, ice-houses, at least, and probably others.
yes but storage in ice houses requires a cold climate.
and generally, food in cultures develops around food that can be stored easily - caves probably arent easy access for most of the worlds population.
I actually did mean directly from the animal, as in from the teat - or at least immediatly after milking - because in very hot climates you couldnt keep it even for an hour.
yes cheese and yogurt are early storage forms ( I dont know what panneer is) - and indeed many people who are lactose intolerant can cope with products like cheese and yoghurt, but not fresh milk.
Which would seem to lend credence to my theory that the cold climate was the driving factor behind gene mutation spreading rather than accessibity of milk sources or availabilty of alternative foods.
But anyway was just a passing comment on the tangent running at that point in thread - not really relevant to OP's question.
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There are more than a few African peoples who are quite dependent on milk... the Maasai probably being the best known. I wouldn't consider Africa a very cold climate. It's suggested that their ability to process milk is linked to livestock domestication.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/africans-ability-digest-milk-came-livestock-agriculture-180950064/1 -
stevencloser wrote: »You can develop an intolerance or allergy at any time of your life, regardless of whether you've been eating it for years.
IMO dairy is very tasty, relatively cheap and an easy source of protein for humans but NOT healthy or ideal. No other species goes and sucks on another species once it's weaned so why do we gobble the milk of other animals? The answer is because it's been heavily marketed to us and it tastes great especially with all that other *kitten* added to it. Hence why so many people do develop an intolerance to it at some point.
We are biologically programmed to eat our own species milk (ie breast milk) until weaning age which should be around 2-6 years of age. After that we have absolutely no evolutionary or biological need for milk.
Most animals, when given the chance, will drink another animal's milk.
And most dint tolerate it. They simply like the taste. Both nu cat and my dog will gobble cows milk but will have violent diarrhea from it.
My dog tolerates dairy just fine. We also have no biologic need for carrots, or kale, or chicken, but we eat those, too.
My dog is happiest in the cheese making season. He's all excited when we start making cheese because he knows he would get trimmings and drink whey. He keeps pacing around until cheese is done.3
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