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Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories
Replies
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That was a waste of 4 minutes.....
You actually bothered to click the link?
I'm not interested in anything Fung has to say. He's a woo-spouting crackpot and is a laughingstock amongst evidence-based nutrition/physiology experts.
It was humorous when he popped into the ISSN (International Society of Sports Nutrition) Facebook group. He was absolutely crucified in there.
That ISSN thread was the best thread ever on Facebook.3 -
But Dr Peter Attia who developed metabolic syndrome even while he was an athlete seems to be saying something similar..
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/do-calories-matter
Was a bit surprised by the amount of hostility to Fung... Maybe Attia will be in for worse :-)
I don't know myself - trying to keep an open mind I guess - so please don't flame me - I'm very sensitive and it might make me eat 300kcal (of chocolate or salmon) and then I'll have to run for 25.5 minutes to burn them off (I guess). :-)32 -
Sterling example of correct evidence leading to incorrect conclusions.5
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »That was a waste of 4 minutes.....
You actually bothered to click the link?
I'm not interested in anything Fung has to say. He's a woo-spouting crackpot and is a laughingstock amongst evidence-based nutrition/physiology experts.
It was humorous when he popped into the ISSN (International Society of Sports Nutrition) Facebook group. He was absolutely crucified in there.
That ISSN thread was the best thread ever on Facebook.
Please tell me someone has a link to that thread.2 -
I always laugh how articles like that never mention that protein also spikes an insulin response.9 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »
I always laugh how articles like that never mention that protein also spikes an insulin response.
That's coz it doesn't fit the picture they're trying to paint. Never let the truth get in the way of good clickbait.8 -
That was a waste of 4 minutes.....
You actually bothered to click the link?
I'm not interested in anything Fung has to say. He's a woo-spouting crackpot and is a laughingstock amongst evidence-based nutrition/physiology experts.
It was humorous when he popped into the ISSN (International Society of Sports Nutrition) Facebook group. He was absolutely crucified in there.
Are there Screenshots of that?0 -
Either way, Fung is a nephrologist who has woven just enough actual science into all his pseudo/junk science to almost sound convincing, but he's been torn apart by plenty of experts with actual knowledge about physiology and nutrition. He's another Dr. Oz - a physician who's sold his soul to the almighty dollar, peddling snake oil and shoveling in money by the bucketloads from gullible, desperate people.
It's rather telling that when you Google his name, some of the first links to his "work" are to dietdoctor.com, Jimmy Moore's keto site and Mercola's site. You can almost fill up your woo bingo card from that first page of search results.
Isn't dietdoctor His own Site? It talks about him enough to be at least.1 -
But Dr Peter Attia who developed metabolic syndrome even while he was an athlete seems to be saying something similar..
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/do-calories-matter
Was a bit surprised by the amount of hostility to Fung... Maybe Attia will be in for worse :-)
I don't know myself - trying to keep an open mind I guess - so please don't flame me - I'm very sensitive and it might make me eat 300kcal (of chocolate or salmon) and then I'll have to run for 25.5 minutes to burn them off (I guess). :-)
Dr. Attia has severe IR issues. He does not regulate insulin well. And IIRC, he isn't even keto anymore, but rather low carb.
If you want to know actual science, I would recommend staying away from bloggers and MD's who want to play PhD. If you like low carb and keto diets, then look at the works of Phinney and Vokey; Dom Agostino has some good stuff on keto and cancers (Good discussions here on that topic).
Below is information on Energy Balance from Dr. Kevin Hall, a lead research at the NIH.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/95/4/989
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10436946/are-all-calories-equal-part-2-kevins-halls-new-study#latest
Dr. Layne Norton has some good videos; his PhD is in nutritional sciences - has a bunch videos on the keto diet and with prominent keto followers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eq8VObUFsk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7Ldxu5wcoE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km4wd-YK0L8
Alan Aragon participated in a review of the literature of ketogenic and fitness:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10611377/anyone-read-the-latest-research-on-keto-by-alan-aragon/p1
Overall, Dr. Fung is another zealot who can't provide science to back up his theories.
Keto is a great diet for many, but this whole conspiracy theory around carbs is just as bad of the one against fat 20 years ago. Carbs are very healthy for you. It's over consumption of calories that is bad for you.28 -
I don't really know this guy and I have to confess I couldn't get all the way through the article, but whatever point he was trying to make never got my attention because I couldn't get past the absolutely horrible grammar and sentence structure. I've never thought of myself as the grammar police, but surely this couldn't have been written by someone with so much advanced education.
Maybe this is the homeschooling mom in me but if my 8th grader had written this I would have given it a solid D simply because the author was too damn lazy to proof his own work. In fact, I'd require my kid to redo it before I'd even look at it for content.
Deduct several IQ points just for that. I assume his book editors do a better job.15 -
Soooo.... basically I lost nearly 50lbs ON A LIE!!!! WHAT THE FUNG!!!18
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If calories are a lie, what would Fung (or other doctors who accept his theories) recommend for a patient who needed to gain weight or maintain their weight?9
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janejellyroll wrote: »If calories are a lie, what would Fung (or other doctors who accept his theories) recommend for a patient who needed to gain weight or maintain their weight?
Stop eating. Starvation mode would kick in and they'd get fat.50 -
janejellyroll wrote: »If calories are a lie, what would Fung (or other doctors who accept his theories) recommend for a patient who needed to gain weight or maintain their weight?
I was wondering the same thing. A bag of Skittles a day? As long as it raises insulin right.. haha2 -
I stopped reading at "boom"
It's what brainless folk use when they think they've won an argument24 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »
I realized recently that this is yet another expression that will be largely meaningless to my as-yet-unborn children.10 -
But Dr Peter Attia who developed metabolic syndrome even while he was an athlete seems to be saying something similar..
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/do-calories-matter
Was a bit surprised by the amount of hostility to Fung... Maybe Attia will be in for worse :-)
I don't know myself - trying to keep an open mind I guess - so please don't flame me - I'm very sensitive and it might make me eat 300kcal (of chocolate or salmon) and then I'll have to run for 25.5 minutes to burn them off (I guess). :-)
Here's what the WHO, an international organization that is one of the de facto authorities in the world on things like that, that unlike Fung does not have to sell diet books about how everything mainstream medicine told you was a lie, has to say about calories:
"There was convincing evidence that energy balance is critical to maintaining healthy
body weight and ensuring optimal nutrient intakes, regardless of macronutrient
distribution expressed in energy percentage (%E). "
http://foris.fao.org/preview/25553-0ece4cb94ac52f9a25af77ca5cfba7a8c.pdf9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »If calories are a lie, what would Fung (or other doctors who accept his theories) recommend for a patient who needed to gain weight or maintain their weight?
They'd probably say that you just need to add a few grams of carbs to your diet and teh evil insulinzzz would make you blow up like a balloon.
It's amazing how Fung, Attia, Taubes, et al can completely ignore the empirical evidence consisting of millions of people who have successfully lost weight/fat and vastly improved health markers by caloric restriction without lowering carb intake. Not to mention the mountains of scientific evidence (such as linked by psulemon above, for starters). It takes a special kind of stupid to blather on when you've been thoroughly and convincingly proven wrong and the rest of the scientific world is laughing at you.
[ETA:] Just to add to the links provided above, here's an article which links to 148 different studies which clearly indicate that calories do indeed matter: https://completehumanperformance.com/2013/07/23/why-calories-count/
[ETA again:] Lyle McDonald's review of the Hall study (which was conducted in a metabolic ward): https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/reduced-fat-reduced-carbohydrate-diets.html/10 -
stevencloser wrote: »Either way, Fung is a nephrologist who has woven just enough actual science into all his pseudo/junk science to almost sound convincing, but he's been torn apart by plenty of experts with actual knowledge about physiology and nutrition. He's another Dr. Oz - a physician who's sold his soul to the almighty dollar, peddling snake oil and shoveling in money by the bucketloads from gullible, desperate people.
It's rather telling that when you Google his name, some of the first links to his "work" are to dietdoctor.com, Jimmy Moore's keto site and Mercola's site. You can almost fill up your woo bingo card from that first page of search results.
Isn't dietdoctor His own Site? It talks about him enough to be at least.
Funny you should ask. Unsurprisingly, he's listed on their site as an "expert contributor". And dietdoctor is hardly an unbiased source - it's nothing more than a keto propaganda website.0 -
Mr. Fung...All I could think of was this....
https://youtu.be/Yw_CtUR9Lh0?t=3m25s2
This discussion has been closed.
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