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Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories
Replies
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BOOM!! Why are you wasting our time?3
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At this point talking to people on this forum is a complete utter waste of time. He clearly states that you need a calorie deficit and a hormonal balance to lose weight. Of course you must be blinded with rage, skimmed all the good stuff and taken something out of context. I've been reading his stuff for weeks and he says that purist Cico folk are angry people! How right he is! So you think that the human body is some sort of calculator? We must have all these hormones for NO reason. They're the ones that decide whether the calories are going to be used as energy or stored as fat. Okay, I'm off. Have a good night people!
After looking at the website, he comes across someone trying to make a buck off people desperate to lose weight. Sorry.
Copy right from the ad ... "Revolutionary 45-Second "Intelligent Movement"
Strips off Stubborn Fat and Tones Flabby Muscle
Non-stop for 48-72 Hours...While You're Relaxing!
PLUS: Unleashes a Cocktail of Youth-Enhancing Hormones Making You Look Younger, Feel Better, Relieving Pain And Bringing Back Your Energy, Focus and Drive!"
If he is legit, he's not coming across that way to me at all.
And I have a metabolic disorder. And I lost weight by having a calorie deficit. And I eat carbs.
It's all nonsense but "flabby muscle"? What the.0 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Is there a reason why an emotional craving is bad? Should I care that I want that bread? I mean again.. if I have the calories for it I can eat that bread no problem. I have known myself 31 years and at this point I know what I enjoy.. i know what foods usually cycle through for me. It would seem silly to me for me to go low carb or keto simply to what? Not have an emotional craving? Avoid a food that isn't bad? You know what I worked on once I got medicated for my BED? Eating in a way that doesn't result in me just going too long without something and maintaining control through moderate amounts and rotations of foods. The medications stop my brain from not being able to stop and put me in a place where I can now choose and control what I do with food. And like others it was not easy to not say screw it and eat an entire package of 4 oh Henry bars but I worked hard at it so that I don't have to go to extremes to not have cravings even emotional ones.
Emotional cravings aren't necessarily a negative an can be quite comforting/therapeutic. They can be a problem when used as a way to avoid dealing with something else (commonly called "eating your feelings") or when they cause a person to overeat to the point of being unhealthy--in the short term, eating until over-stuffed (some people gorge themselves to the point of being sick) and long term, causing unhealthy weight gain.
I make my Dad's potato and leek soup when I miss him. When I make it, I remember those days in the kitchen with him. I eat a bowl or two and portion the rest out and put it in the freezer. If I binge and eat it all/most at once, that would signal a problem as I've gone beyond a little comfort and into a whole 'nother territory.3 -
Well I guess this explains the incongruity of walking into a donair shop and having a "halifax" donair as an option!0
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I'm having trouble getting past the "pound of medium ground beef"...0
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VintageFeline wrote: »
At this point talking to people on this forum is a complete utter waste of time. He clearly states that you need a calorie deficit and a hormonal balance to lose weight. Of course you must be blinded with rage, skimmed all the good stuff and taken something out of context. I've been reading his stuff for weeks and he says that purist Cico folk are angry people! How right he is! So you think that the human body is some sort of calculator? We must have all these hormones for NO reason. They're the ones that decide whether the calories are going to be used as energy or stored as fat. Okay, I'm off. Have a good night people!
After looking at the website, he comes across someone trying to make a buck off people desperate to lose weight. Sorry.
Copy right from the ad ... "Revolutionary 45-Second "Intelligent Movement"
Strips off Stubborn Fat and Tones Flabby Muscle
Non-stop for 48-72 Hours...While You're Relaxing!
PLUS: Unleashes a Cocktail of Youth-Enhancing Hormones Making You Look Younger, Feel Better, Relieving Pain And Bringing Back Your Energy, Focus and Drive!"
If he is legit, he's not coming across that way to me at all. And I have a metabolic disorder. And I lost weight by having a calorie deficit. And I eat carbs.
It's all nonsense but "flabby muscle"? What the.
So thats whats wrong with me!
Im not fat i just have flabby muscles8 -
angelstarr22 wrote: »BOOM!! Why are you wasting our time?
We have moved on to a better topic. Now i must figure out this donair thing and see if we have it around my house2 -
angelstarr22 wrote: »BOOM!! Why are you wasting our time?
We have moved on to a better topic. Now i must figure out this donair thing and see if we have it around my house
The best bit is when the damp salad, sauce and grease from the meat (yummo!) make the bread of choice fall apart. Then you just go full savage and shovel it in any way you can.5 -
Just when i thought i couldnt take this thread and less seriously, Donairs save the day!1
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I didn't know we had doner kebab (looked like gyros to me too), and we have a place called Mezza that has chicken shwarma and various other pitas, but none called doner kebab, but I checked and it seems we do. Maybe have to taste test.
This place looks potentially cool: https://www.donermen.com/ (doner kebab, German style)
Various others too: https://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=Doner+Kebab&find_loc=Chicago,+IL1 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Everyone is partially right. A deficit is all that matters in losing weight but what and when you eat effect the deficit. Hormones can cause a person to absorb more or excrete more and can have impacts on hunger which all effect deficits.
How would it? despite hormones influencing hunger cues, that person still makes the choice to eat. Also, if someone does have a medical condition that impacts the food they need not consume, such as PCOS then after being diagnosed by a doctor, they would then know this and choose an appropriate lifestyle choice. However, no matter if they choose to ignore that lifestyle choice or if someone is choosing to eat from hunger cues, the food they pick or the time of day in which they eat that food does not matter, if my hormones were screaming at me to eat chocolate at 3am it is not set in stone that i have to, cravings actually can be ignored for one, a lot of people find that hard to do but it is something people can do, they also have a choice on how much of it they want to consume if they can't ignore it, if they choose to sit there and eat 5 chocolate bars and use their entire days worth of calories, thats on them then, hormones may cause the strong desire but again they can be ignored.
deficit is deficit. You choose to keep your deficit or eat it. Paying attention to your own body helps plan ahead and use your calories more wisely so you can make sure of that. @blambo61 -- People who claim that they can't lose weight because their hormones cause them to eat and feel hungry are simply using that as an excuse, otherwise everyone with a hormone imbalance would just forever be fat, but plenty of people have successfully lost weight even with hormone issues, it takes patience to find the math that will get you there and it takes awareness of how you need to plan, and it takes strategy to find the lifestyle that will best help you but if you are just going to throw in the white towel, don't blame the food picked, hormones or the sun or the moon being in the sky for it, you still make conscious choices in the end and if you plan right, the time of day and choice of food makes no difference.
People have a choice but there is a breaking point for most everyone. What is a breaking point for someone else might be really easy for you or me. The breaking point is influenced greatly by hormones. Choices do affect hormones also I know. Yes if a person had perfect will and discipline they would lose no matter what but I do think everyone has a breaking point including you and me. I'm glad it isn't that hard for me to lose. I think it may be for others. I do also think there are those that do not try very hard either as you mentioned.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Everyone is partially right. A deficit is all that matters in losing weight but what and when you eat effect the deficit. Hormones can cause a person to absorb more or excrete more and can have impacts on hunger which all effect deficits.
How would it? despite hormones influencing hunger cues, that person still makes the choice to eat. Also, if someone does have a medical condition that impacts the food they need not consume, such as PCOS then after being diagnosed by a doctor, they would then know this and choose an appropriate lifestyle choice. However, no matter if they choose to ignore that lifestyle choice or if someone is choosing to eat from hunger cues, the food they pick or the time of day in which they eat that food does not matter, if my hormones were screaming at me to eat chocolate at 3am it is not set in stone that i have to, cravings actually can be ignored for one, a lot of people find that hard to do but it is something people can do, they also have a choice on how much of it they want to consume if they can't ignore it, if they choose to sit there and eat 5 chocolate bars and use their entire days worth of calories, thats on them then, hormones may cause the strong desire but again they can be ignored.
deficit is deficit. You choose to keep your deficit or eat it. Paying attention to your own body helps plan ahead and use your calories more wisely so you can make sure of that. @blambo61 -- People who claim that they can't lose weight because their hormones cause them to eat and feel hungry are simply using that as an excuse, otherwise everyone with a hormone imbalance would just forever be fat, but plenty of people have successfully lost weight even with hormone issues, it takes patience to find the math that will get you there and it takes awareness of how you need to plan, and it takes strategy to find the lifestyle that will best help you but if you are just going to throw in the white towel, don't blame the food picked, hormones or the sun or the moon being in the sky for it, you still make conscious choices in the end and if you plan right, the time of day and choice of food makes no difference.
People can choose but it is much easier if you don't feel like your starving all them time. How many of the "only CICO matters" crowd has yo-yo dieted and gained weight back? I bet a significant percentage. Why, because it is difficult. Hunger influences on eating should not be completely ignored.
You working, like Fung, from a false premise and conflating a bunch of separate issues into one.
1. CICO is all that "matters" when it comes to weight loss in that you must create a calorie deficit to lose weight
2. Saying that does not negate the fact that in the act of creating that deficit you should make creating that deficit sustainable and get good nutrition. The propositions of creating a deficit, having good nutrition, and not being hungry are not mutually exclusive.
If someone experiences uncontrollable hunger during dieting, there are ways to mitigate that through meal timing, food choice, and deficit level along with controlled diet breaks/refeeds (which manipulate hormone levels).
I believe I said the same thing, when and what you eat matters for hunger control which in the end will determine deficits.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Things that give me uncontrollable hunger; 1. Fats and 2. Fasting
I IF alright because I always wake up vaguely nauseated, but the last time I had to fast (for a colonoscopy), I got one of the worst migraines I ever had. I actually had to cancel the colonoscopy because I couldn't stop vomiting long enough to leave the house to go get it.
I really don't get this whole "thing" about fasting for a couple of days and what it's supposed to do for you and am just waiting for the day when it all goes away.
And yes, fats leave me hungry too. A breakfast of something like just eggs and cheese would leave me famished.
I don't think multiple day fasts are a good thing to do frequently (like weekly). I think quarterly should be fine (for a normal person) and could really be motivating for those who are very obese to see the weight come off.9 -
angelstarr22 wrote: »BOOM!! Why are you wasting our time?
We have moved on to a better topic. Now i must figure out this donair thing and see if we have it around my house
Ok, sorry Mr. Moderator, I haven’t been on the forum in month and today when I came on this thread was at the top. Also, no disrespect but why are you just addressing me? When other people were posting on it today and 7 people after me?
5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Things that give me uncontrollable hunger; 1. Fats and 2. Fasting
I IF alright because I always wake up vaguely nauseated, but the last time I had to fast (for a colonoscopy), I got one of the worst migraines I ever had. I actually had to cancel the colonoscopy because I couldn't stop vomiting long enough to leave the house to go get it.
I really don't get this whole "thing" about fasting for a couple of days and what it's supposed to do for you and am just waiting for the day when it all goes away.
And yes, fats leave me hungry too. A breakfast of something like just eggs and cheese would leave me famished.
You probably shouldn't fast them. I get nauseous or at least crazy hungry if I eat a lot of small meals and never get to eat tell full, that is pure torture for me. Fasting does work for me.0 -
Lol, the dude is Asian. How the hell does he explain why rice eaters in Asia don't have the same issue as Americans and carbs?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Everyone is partially right. A deficit is all that matters in losing weight but what and when you eat effect the deficit. Hormones can cause a person to absorb more or excrete more and can have impacts on hunger which all effect deficits.
How would it? despite hormones influencing hunger cues, that person still makes the choice to eat. Also, if someone does have a medical condition that impacts the food they need not consume, such as PCOS then after being diagnosed by a doctor, they would then know this and choose an appropriate lifestyle choice. However, no matter if they choose to ignore that lifestyle choice or if someone is choosing to eat from hunger cues, the food they pick or the time of day in which they eat that food does not matter, if my hormones were screaming at me to eat chocolate at 3am it is not set in stone that i have to, cravings actually can be ignored for one, a lot of people find that hard to do but it is something people can do, they also have a choice on how much of it they want to consume if they can't ignore it, if they choose to sit there and eat 5 chocolate bars and use their entire days worth of calories, thats on them then, hormones may cause the strong desire but again they can be ignored.
deficit is deficit. You choose to keep your deficit or eat it. Paying attention to your own body helps plan ahead and use your calories more wisely so you can make sure of that. @blambo61 -- People who claim that they can't lose weight because their hormones cause them to eat and feel hungry are simply using that as an excuse, otherwise everyone with a hormone imbalance would just forever be fat, but plenty of people have successfully lost weight even with hormone issues, it takes patience to find the math that will get you there and it takes awareness of how you need to plan, and it takes strategy to find the lifestyle that will best help you but if you are just going to throw in the white towel, don't blame the food picked, hormones or the sun or the moon being in the sky for it, you still make conscious choices in the end and if you plan right, the time of day and choice of food makes no difference.
People can choose but it is much easier if you don't feel like your starving all them time. How many of the "only CICO matters" crowd has yo-yo dieted and gained weight back? I bet a significant percentage. Why, because it is difficult. Hunger influences on eating should not be completely ignored.
The failure rate for almost diets is like 80-90%. And there is no CICO diet.
This. I'm a contributor to those statistics. I'm perfectly capable of losing weight with enough incentive, but was never able to sustain the loss. The reason was the same every time - I would reach my goal weight, then continue losing because that's all I knew how to do. At some point I would break, and pile all the weight back on.
I'm at goal weight again, (thanks in great part to these forums). I lost by eating the same foods I ate when I was gaining, but controlling portions (calories). By not having restricted myself to a food plan that didn't incorporate foods I love and didn't take into account what kinds of food keep me from being hungry all the time, one of the challenges I won't face while maintaining is trying to continue eating in a way that I don't find satisfying while losing the incentive of seeing the downward trend on the scale. I think this is possibly the single biggest contributor to regaining after weight loss.
I've only dieted twice. I've tried losing weight by running numerous times (didn't work cause would get sick or injured and eat back calories). First time I dieted, I ate a big breakfast, only ate fruit tell dinner, then ate a small dinner. I did exercise also. That diet was very hard for me because I would get very hungry during the day. Once I eat, my body wants more. I lost about 40-lbs on that but then got injured, couldn't run for a few months and it was just too hard. 6-months later I gained it all back.
The second time, I did 20:4 IF and ate ad libitum in the evenings and allowed deserts after eating good food. I lost 45-lbs in 4-months, then I went to a 16:8 and maintained for the next 1-year (I did gain back 10-lbs twice and went back to 20:4 each time to lose it again). Then I found if I ate just a salad at lunch and then ate ad libitum in the evenings, and exercise, I would maintain. I maintained for 7 or so more months without gaining doing that. Then recently I got back into the 20:4 routine for 3-months and have dropped another 15-lbs. My SW was 252 and I'm at about 195 right now. I think that is good that I'm at my lowest after starting 2yr and 2-months ago. IF works for me. I'm sure it doesn't for a lot of people but eating tell full is crucial for me for sustainability therefore I need to wait to eat or I will eat too much. Fasting is fairly easy for me but eating small meals and never getting full is hell for me.4 -
angelstarr22 wrote: »angelstarr22 wrote: »BOOM!! Why are you wasting our time?
We have moved on to a better topic. Now i must figure out this donair thing and see if we have it around my house
Ok, sorry Mr. Moderator, I haven’t been on the forum in month and today when I came on this thread was at the top. Also, no disrespect but why are you just addressing me? When other people were posting on it today and 7 people after me?
It was a chatty, jokey reply. Absolutely nothing to get bent out of shape over. Snickers?17 -
angelstarr22 wrote: »angelstarr22 wrote: »BOOM!! Why are you wasting our time?
We have moved on to a better topic. Now i must figure out this donair thing and see if we have it around my house
Ok, sorry Mr. Moderator, I haven’t been on the forum in month and today when I came on this thread was at the top. Also, no disrespect but why are you just addressing me? When other people were posting on it today and 7 people after me?
I think you read that in the wrong tone.7 -
Im completely shook. fung thread, for the love of calories, please stop.0
This discussion has been closed.
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