Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Can you both desire to lose weight and be body positive?
Replies
-
I really with the "HAAS" movement was framed differently.
I firmly believe that Attractive At Any Weight is an achievable and realistic ideology. There are plenty of women that are gorgeous despite being heavy.
But trying to warp that into saying you can be HEALTHY at any weight is disgusting and dangerous.
And being attractive is REALLY what it's all about anyways. People want to feel attractive, beautiful, and they have every right to. But we play mind-games to convince ourselves it's really about health, because society looks down on vanity, which I also think is stupid, but that's a point for another day.
Society looks down on vanity?? Seems to me it thrives on vanity.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I really with the "HAAS" movement was framed differently.
I firmly believe that Attractive At Any Weight is an achievable and realistic ideology. There are plenty of women that are gorgeous despite being heavy.
But trying to warp that into saying you can be HEALTHY at any weight is disgusting and dangerous.
And being attractive is REALLY what it's all about anyways. People want to feel attractive, beautiful, and they have every right to. But we play mind-games to convince ourselves it's really about health, because society looks down on vanity, which I also think is stupid, but that's a point for another day.
Society looks down on vanity?? Seems to me it thrives on vanity.
Openly accepting vanity and admitting to it is looked down on. Instead we have to pretend we do things for other reasons, and people are admired for “not caring what other people think”4 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I really with the "HAAS" movement was framed differently.
I firmly believe that Attractive At Any Weight is an achievable and realistic ideology. There are plenty of women that are gorgeous despite being heavy.
But trying to warp that into saying you can be HEALTHY at any weight is disgusting and dangerous.
And being attractive is REALLY what it's all about anyways. People want to feel attractive, beautiful, and they have every right to. But we play mind-games to convince ourselves it's really about health, because society looks down on vanity, which I also think is stupid, but that's a point for another day.
Society looks down on vanity?? Seems to me it thrives on vanity.
Openly accepting vanity and admitting to it is looked down on. Instead we have to pretend we do things for other reasons, and people are admired for “not caring what other people think”
agreed.
I lost the weight due to health reasons and vanity...I was sick and tire of being sick and tired and I hated being the fat friend...hated shopping etc.
mind you I don't care what others think...it was more about my thoughts.1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I really with the "HAAS" movement was framed differently.
I firmly believe that Attractive At Any Weight is an achievable and realistic ideology. There are plenty of women that are gorgeous despite being heavy.
But trying to warp that into saying you can be HEALTHY at any weight is disgusting and dangerous.
And being attractive is REALLY what it's all about anyways. People want to feel attractive, beautiful, and they have every right to. But we play mind-games to convince ourselves it's really about health, because society looks down on vanity, which I also think is stupid, but that's a point for another day.
Society looks down on vanity?? Seems to me it thrives on vanity.
Openly accepting vanity and admitting to it is looked down on. Instead we have to pretend we do things for other reasons, and people are admired for “not caring what other people think”
If openly accepting vanity was looked down on we wouldn't have so many popular "here's how you can look like me' YouTube videos.3 -
LiveLoveFitFab wrote: »I stand behind my original statement, which you didn't quote - If you love yourself you take care of yourself. You can't be body positive and celebrate unhealthy practices. The two just don't equate.
dunno where this interjection is going to go in terms of the thread's actual content, but . . . i think the impact of statements like this hinges on how doctrinaire the speaker is being about their definitions of the soft terms 'love' and 'take care of'. if you define working out every other day as THE definition of 'taking care' then when you plug that into your equation you'll come to the conclusion that someone who doesn't do that does not 'love' themselves. they're not meeting your specific criteria for what 'loving themselves' means.
but i think that's amazingly limited and imperceptive. you're assuming an agreed-upon perspective that i don't think is the case.0 -
3 pages of unread posts... mostly the same people arguing about who said what.
Someone needs a bike. Actually, someones need a bike.2 -
LiveLoveFitFab wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »LiveLoveFitFab wrote: »Weight loss for health is totally unnecessary? Please. I don't see many obese 80 year olds. Or any, that's just a fact. No study needed, just go to any retirement home and look around you. Not a single one over 75 even is obese.
I see this posted on this site all the time and I wonder where these people live. I know at least a dozen obese people over age 75 who are obese. In fact, I know more obese people in that age group than at a normal weight. They aren't healthy, but most aren't invalids either.
Do you think they have taken care of their bodies? Are they happy with their ability to navigate the world? Are they as pain free as someone who was active and ate reasonably their whole lives? The answer is no.
I stand behind my original statement, which you didn't quote - If you love yourself you take care of yourself. You can't be body positive and celebrate unhealthy practices. The two just don't equate.
I love my body. I train it and I feed it.
Neither is unhealthy. Sometimes I train too much and get hurt. Sometimes I eat too much and get thicker.
It doesn't mean I don't love myself or my body. Granted, I'm only 42, but I fully expect that should I live to 75, I'll still be able to recreate my profile picture, and I wouldn't be surprised if my weight stays in the overweight BMI category. Since I have no burning urge to cut much below 220(240 right now.. 255 when the photo was taken)0 -
eliciaobrien1 wrote: »
So does most of this thread, apparently.8 -
-
I know that self loathing works for some, but for me, the more I was disgusted with myself, the more I thought about my weight, the more I ignored it and gained. Doing body positive things for myself...only weighing in once a month, counting calories and nutrition but being allowed to indulge sometimes, doing strength work outs, drinking water, paying attention to my hair and nails and skin more...that's positive and it has been helping me lose weight. I encourage you to be a positive force in the body positive movement. Show others how you can love yourself, accept that you are not someone else and use that love to be healthier.5
-
In my opinion, sure you can be body-positive and desire to lose weight. Some people who are overweight (or even obese) like how they look and how they feel, and yet work at losing weight for health reasons, even if they know will be less satisfied with how they look at a lower weight.1
-
In my opinion, sure you can be body-positive and desire to lose weight. Some people who are overweight (or even obese) like how they look and how they feel, and yet work at losing weight for health reasons, even if they know will be less satisfied with how they look at a lower weight.
This is exactly my case, and one of the reason my goal weight is in the overweight category. Lower risk, but still hopefully not too thin for my liking.2 -
Short answer; yes.
Long answer; yesssssssss.
In all seriousiness though, the body positivity community helped me realize that my body deserves to be taken care of, and that includes making sure it’s at a healthy weight. I tried using my self-loathing as fuel but it took me down a dark, dark road and was so unhealthy for me across the board.7 -
I care about my body/health because I only get one. For me caring about my health = body positivity.
I count calories to keep from eating to excess, causing fat gain which will hurt my health. I exercise to keep my heart and muscles strong. I don't smoke because cigarettes are poison. I eat lots of fruits/veggies to lower my risk of developing chronic diseases.
1 -
I find there is a pretty big difference between "body positivity" and self love. Loving someone requires honesty, especially tough honesty, the kind they may not want to hear. I may have attempted to view my obesity as "not that bad" but I never got to the point where I genuinely thought it was a good thing. If you truly practice self love, then you practice self care as well, you seek to improve yourself and become more "you" and less the product of defeatism, food addiction, and lethargy. You are not upset with yourself because society has convinced you that your are not worthy, you are upset with yourself because you are not living up to your potential. You know who you are, you know what you are supposed to look and feel like, your future potential self is screaming at you to get up and GROW! EVOLVE! ADAPT! It's so much easier to mug someone and steal their money than it is to work for money, just as it is easier to lash out against society for your insecurities than to work on yourself. Stop fighting for change and start WORKING for change. You'll be amazed at how amazing you are and will be and will FEEL once you start making the right choices and seeing results. People struggle with self love, but it's not for lack of psychological tricks and mantras and hopeful imagery on the internet, it's for lack of effort. You'll love yourself without having to try if you start accomplishing things and showing how powerful you truly are.2
-
Long answer short: yes.
I feel that people who say it’s not possible are foisting their insecurities on you. They see changes others want to make as a challenge to their own self-worth and try to put a stop to it. It’s the childish mentality that if I can make you do what I’m doing, then I’m right.2 -
I believe that if someone loves their body, loves how it looks, they wouldn't try to lose weight, they would try to maintain their weight. So my answer is no. And I also don't find it sincere when a plus-sized one pushes body positivity. I believe it is an act.0
-
This content has been removed.
-
kakaovanilya wrote: »I believe that if someone loves their body, loves how it looks, they wouldn't try to lose weight, they would try to maintain their weight. So my answer is no. And I also don't find it sincere when a plus-sized one pushes body positivity. I believe it is an act.
I loved my body and how it looked...no issue...I was over 200lbs.
That is called confidence....doesn't mean I didn't understand that the extra weight was causing health issues...
That is called perspective and reality.
I lost my weight to be healthier...less achy and get my blood work in line...didn't change how I felt about my body or how it looked.4 -
kakaovanilya wrote: »I believe that if someone loves their body, loves how it looks, they wouldn't try to lose weight, they would try to maintain their weight. So my answer is no. And I also don't find it sincere when a plus-sized one pushes body positivity. I believe it is an act.
I loved my body and how it looked...no issue...I was over 200lbs.
That is called confidence....doesn't mean I didn't understand that the extra weight was causing health issues...
That is called perspective and reality.
I lost my weight to be healthier...less achy and get my blood work in line...didn't change how I felt about my body or how it looked.
If I were a plus-sized, I'd still love a lot of things about myself, my hair, my eyes, my hands etc. but I could never say I love my body while I am walking on a beach with a swimsuit and if there is anyone who says that, I wouldn't believe them. That is my opinion.3 -
kakaovanilya wrote: »kakaovanilya wrote: »I believe that if someone loves their body, loves how it looks, they wouldn't try to lose weight, they would try to maintain their weight. So my answer is no. And I also don't find it sincere when a plus-sized one pushes body positivity. I believe it is an act.
I loved my body and how it looked...no issue...I was over 200lbs.
That is called confidence....doesn't mean I didn't understand that the extra weight was causing health issues...
That is called perspective and reality.
I lost my weight to be healthier...less achy and get my blood work in line...didn't change how I felt about my body or how it looked.
If I were a plus-sized, I'd still love a lot of things about myself, my hair, my eyes, my hands etc. but I could never say I love my body while I am walking on a beach with a swimsuit and if there is anyone who says that, I wouldn't believe them. That is my opinion.
*shrugs* you don't have to believe me but the facts are out there...otherwise you wouldn't see plus sized models...or plus sized people walking around in a bathing suit or shorts etc...
Actions speak louder than words.2 -
kakaovanilya wrote: »kakaovanilya wrote: »I believe that if someone loves their body, loves how it looks, they wouldn't try to lose weight, they would try to maintain their weight. So my answer is no. And I also don't find it sincere when a plus-sized one pushes body positivity. I believe it is an act.
I loved my body and how it looked...no issue...I was over 200lbs.
That is called confidence....doesn't mean I didn't understand that the extra weight was causing health issues...
That is called perspective and reality.
I lost my weight to be healthier...less achy and get my blood work in line...didn't change how I felt about my body or how it looked.
If I were a plus-sized, I'd still love a lot of things about myself, my hair, my eyes, my hands etc. but I could never say I love my body while I am walking on a beach with a swimsuit and if there is anyone who says that, I wouldn't believe them. That is my opinion.
*shrugs* you don't have to believe me but the facts are out there...otherwise you wouldn't see plus sized models...or plus sized people walking around in a bathing suit or shorts etc...
Actions speak louder than words.
Maybe the reason I think like this is because it is impossible for me to love my body when I have some belly fat or my arms are not toned enough but I do admire those who love their body. I wish I could, too1 -
kakaovanilya wrote: »kakaovanilya wrote: »kakaovanilya wrote: »I believe that if someone loves their body, loves how it looks, they wouldn't try to lose weight, they would try to maintain their weight. So my answer is no. And I also don't find it sincere when a plus-sized one pushes body positivity. I believe it is an act.
I loved my body and how it looked...no issue...I was over 200lbs.
That is called confidence....doesn't mean I didn't understand that the extra weight was causing health issues...
That is called perspective and reality.
I lost my weight to be healthier...less achy and get my blood work in line...didn't change how I felt about my body or how it looked.
If I were a plus-sized, I'd still love a lot of things about myself, my hair, my eyes, my hands etc. but I could never say I love my body while I am walking on a beach with a swimsuit and if there is anyone who says that, I wouldn't believe them. That is my opinion.
*shrugs* you don't have to believe me but the facts are out there...otherwise you wouldn't see plus sized models...or plus sized people walking around in a bathing suit or shorts etc...
Actions speak louder than words.
Maybe the reason I think like this is because it is impossible for me to love my body when I have some belly fat or my arms are not toned enough but I do admire those who love their body. I wish I could, too
But those are your own preferences. Just look at how people dress and you'll see people have their own preferences, and this also applies for body shape. Personally for myself, I hope I never get a flat belly (which thankfully I never will). I think a little bit of belly fat is cute. I also like love handles (they remind me of some belly dancers).1 -
kakaovanilya wrote: »I believe that if someone loves their body, loves how it looks, they wouldn't try to lose weight, they would try to maintain their weight. So my answer is no. And I also don't find it sincere when a plus-sized one pushes body positivity. I believe it is an act.
I don't think "body positivity" need mean "love how my body looks" and certainly not "think there's nothing that could improve my body." Reasons for this were given upthread, but really it seems weird to me to equate "feel positivity about my body in general" to "think my body is perfect in how it looks." I'll probably never think my body is perfect in how it looks (or that I as a person am perfect -- both would be delusional), but I am positive about my self generally (I like myself, imperfect as I am) and similarly I am positive about my body (I appreciate what it can do and it's potentials and feel generally comfortable in it, while still wanting to make it stronger and better and healthier and, sure, more like my own physical ideal). I say this not being overweight at the moment, but I don't know why it wouldn't also apply to some who are.2 -
I see it as just because I don’t love my body doesn’t mean other larger woman shouldn’t love theirs. My body is personal to me, I think loads of woman look incredible with a bit of weight on them (it’s all about attitude and confidence) I just hate it on me.1
-
I find there is a pretty big difference between "body positivity" and self love. Loving someone requires honesty, especially tough honesty, the kind they may not want to hear. I may have attempted to view my obesity as "not that bad" but I never got to the point where I genuinely thought it was a good thing. If you truly practice self love, then you practice self care as well, you seek to improve yourself and become more "you" and less the product of defeatism, food addiction, and lethargy. You are not upset with yourself because society has convinced you that your are not worthy, you are upset with yourself because you are not living up to your potential. You know who you are, you know what you are supposed to look and feel like, your future potential self is screaming at you to get up and GROW! EVOLVE! ADAPT! It's so much easier to mug someone and steal their money than it is to work for money, just as it is easier to lash out against society for your insecurities than to work on yourself. Stop fighting for change and start WORKING for change. You'll be amazed at how amazing you are and will be and will FEEL once you start making the right choices and seeing results. People struggle with self love, but it's not for lack of psychological tricks and mantras and hopeful imagery on the internet, it's for lack of effort. You'll love yourself without having to try if you start accomplishing things and showing how powerful you truly are.
This post intrigues me. Loving yourself means wanting to change yourself?
Now I'm not suggesting that one can't love themselves and want to change things about themselves, but to suggest that loving yourself means wanting to change yourself seems odd to me.0 -
It's a difficult question. For me it's more about learning to have more confidence in myself on the whole and being positive about who I am and where I am now, whilst making a conscious effort to be healthy (not just focusing on the aesthetic side of it). I'm doing this because I love myself and love life and want to keep on living it as best I can!0
-
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I find there is a pretty big difference between "body positivity" and self love. Loving someone requires honesty, especially tough honesty, the kind they may not want to hear. I may have attempted to view my obesity as "not that bad" but I never got to the point where I genuinely thought it was a good thing. If you truly practice self love, then you practice self care as well, you seek to improve yourself and become more "you" and less the product of defeatism, food addiction, and lethargy. You are not upset with yourself because society has convinced you that your are not worthy, you are upset with yourself because you are not living up to your potential. You know who you are, you know what you are supposed to look and feel like, your future potential self is screaming at you to get up and GROW! EVOLVE! ADAPT! It's so much easier to mug someone and steal their money than it is to work for money, just as it is easier to lash out against society for your insecurities than to work on yourself. Stop fighting for change and start WORKING for change. You'll be amazed at how amazing you are and will be and will FEEL once you start making the right choices and seeing results. People struggle with self love, but it's not for lack of psychological tricks and mantras and hopeful imagery on the internet, it's for lack of effort. You'll love yourself without having to try if you start accomplishing things and showing how powerful you truly are.
This post intrigues me. Loving yourself means wanting to change yourself?
Now I'm not suggesting that one can't love themselves and want to change things about themselves, but to suggest that loving yourself means wanting to change yourself seems odd to me.
Idk if it's what the previous commenter meant, but I'd say that loving yourself means acknowledging that we're all changing all the time, and wanting to make that change as beneficial as possible.1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I find there is a pretty big difference between "body positivity" and self love. Loving someone requires honesty, especially tough honesty, the kind they may not want to hear. I may have attempted to view my obesity as "not that bad" but I never got to the point where I genuinely thought it was a good thing. If you truly practice self love, then you practice self care as well, you seek to improve yourself and become more "you" and less the product of defeatism, food addiction, and lethargy. You are not upset with yourself because society has convinced you that your are not worthy, you are upset with yourself because you are not living up to your potential. You know who you are, you know what you are supposed to look and feel like, your future potential self is screaming at you to get up and GROW! EVOLVE! ADAPT! It's so much easier to mug someone and steal their money than it is to work for money, just as it is easier to lash out against society for your insecurities than to work on yourself. Stop fighting for change and start WORKING for change. You'll be amazed at how amazing you are and will be and will FEEL once you start making the right choices and seeing results. People struggle with self love, but it's not for lack of psychological tricks and mantras and hopeful imagery on the internet, it's for lack of effort. You'll love yourself without having to try if you start accomplishing things and showing how powerful you truly are.
This post intrigues me. Loving yourself means wanting to change yourself?
Now I'm not suggesting that one can't love themselves and want to change things about themselves, but to suggest that loving yourself means wanting to change yourself seems odd to me.
You're changing now. You are going to be someone different in 10 years. You can choose to loose, gain, or maintain your weight during that time. Trying to be happy with yourself in spite of things that are harming your health or self esteem is a good strategy for things that you cannot change or don't want to change, but choose that out of honest introspection to help improve your life, not out of laziness or spite.
There are some musicians out there who only know 5 chords and 1 blues scale and so they call themselves blues musicians. There are other musicians who learn as many chords and scales as they can and they CHOOSE to play the blues because that is what they wanted but they could choose anything else the second they want to because they have all the tools already. That's what I believe self love is, you use all the tools available, learn everything you can, blind yourself to nothing, figure out your logical shortcomings and your emotional blind spots, then once you have all of the choices and costs and benefits laid out before you, you make a conscious and concentrated decision to be who you want to be and you walk that path.
I believe most people who are fat, then choose "HAAS" or "Body Positivity" because that is the easiest place for them to be, and the alternative seems so far, so hard, and so unlikely that they just can't even start walking that path. Instead I want people to know that it's easy, it's slow, it's possible, they can do it, only stay way you are because you GENUINELY want to be there, not because your confirmation bias and your inertia is holding you back.1
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 427 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions