Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Do diets work?
Replies
-
Irishman1970 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.
nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns
Moving bar?
You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.
First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.
Please don't talk about moving the bar.
who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious
What if you can't eat 4 times the food?
when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-
You can get all the micronutrients you need in a few hundred calories. Vegetables are awesome like that. What you need in protein and fats varies by your weight but the minimums are also just a few hundred calories. You can, in theory, get all the nutrition your body needs, your minimums, in below 1000 calories. The PSMF builds on that.
What your body doesn't need is 1000 calories of chicken breast when your maintenance calories is over 4000.
I still want to know whether the other 3000 are in your diet are also just "chicken and salad" or if you're eating something that actually has some calorie density that doesn't require you eating 10 pounds of food a day. Also your essential fats seem lacking.
Quinoa
Nuts
peanutbutter
Vegetables
Red lean meat
Cheeses
Chicken
Fish
butter and olive oil for cooking
Mayo for mixing
eggs
When I am in my growth cycles 4000+
When I am cutting 2800
and yes I seem to eat all day long
I don't understand why you consider BBQ sauce (mostly carbohydrates) to be empty calories but mayo (mostly fat) is somehow okay?
11 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
In the Special K thread, he was all about the fat being good...
Fat is good - first thing burnt on a low carb diet - you should try to make it healthy fat when possible
A chicken breast has almost no fat...I'd think in the context of a keto diet, one would go with the burger sans bun and bacon to hit fat targets...context and all...6 -
This content has been removed.
-
This content has been removed.
-
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?
lean meat - sauteed onion rings and peppers a bit of mozzarella cheese maybe some crushed bacon - no bun no sauce in a lettuce wrap
Ok, but, you didn't even attempt to answer my question. Why cant I eat the burger that way? Why does it have to be on a bun, with deep-fried onion rings and BBQ sauce? To accurately compare, shouldn't the chicken breast be on a bun, with onion rings, smothered in BBQ sauce?
YOU CAAAAAAAN - my point was between the 2 that burger or a chicken breast with salad you can eat more nutritious food - if you are active and fit you need more nutrient dense food between the 2 - a Carls jr Bacon western Cheeseburger or a sald with chicken breast the later is the better choice for fitness
But didn't the Carl's Jr Bacon Western Cheeseburger originally come up because you were attempting to use it as some sort of stand-in for the typical cheeseburger?
Weren't you the one who did that while other people were arguing that cheeseburgers come in all sorts of forms and it's possible for all types of people to find a version that fits into their calorie and nutritional goals and there's nothing inherently unhealthy about foods that fall into the category of "cheeseburger"?
And all this in the context of you refusing to even explain why you are so convinced that someone who is meeting their nutritional needs but sometimes having a cheeseburger, even a Carl's Jr Bacon Western Cheeseburger, is going to be worse off.
Nope I used the 2 because the person thought I was part of the eat what you want as long as you stay within your calorie range
Well, are we talking weight loss (where they can work) or nutrition (where of course what you eat matters and some diets are bad and some good -- note: diet here means "way one eats")?
Of course, if you know anything about nutrition you know that there's no inherent nutritional difference between someone who only eats chicken breast as their protein vs. someone who eats a variety of protein sources, including occasional cheeseburgers.
Single meals do not make that much difference, it's the overall diet. And also a meal involving a cheeseburger can be nutrient dense, and in fact more nutrient dense than a meal involving a chicken breast (or 5, sigh).
If I like cheeseburgers and really want one, it is far more likely that making myself one (or even going out to dinner for one, although I wouldn't choose Carl Jr's, again, that seems to be your thing) will do more to deal with the temptation to overeat than having boneless skinless chicken breast (which I don't much care for). And I've never found that eating a cheeseburger makes me hungry the next day. I might save calories for it, but eh, that's not a huge trade off (I do this with meals I prefer at restaurants, like Indian food, all the time).4 -
This content has been removed.
-
Irishman1970 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.
nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns
Moving bar?
You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.
First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.
Please don't talk about moving the bar.
who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious
What if you can't eat 4 times the food?
when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-
Wait, several pages ago that was a 600 calorie burger wasn't it? And 600 or 1000 (WTF is on it for 1000 calories?!) I could still easily fit it in my day. Because I'm more of a two bigger meals and a snack or two kind of gal.
depends on teh burger a 6 dollar burger BWC depending on what you want can range from 770 - 1000
I don't care what some arbitrarily picked burger's calorie content is but you moved the goal posts after being correctly told that a 600 calorie burger isn't half of many peoples calorie needs and so that was also a strawman.7 -
This content has been removed.
-
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.
nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns
Moving bar?
You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.
First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.
Please don't talk about moving the bar.
who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious
What if you can't eat 4 times the food?
when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-
You can get all the micronutrients you need in a few hundred calories. Vegetables are awesome like that. What you need in protein and fats varies by your weight but the minimums are also just a few hundred calories. You can, in theory, get all the nutrition your body needs, your minimums, in below 1000 calories. The PSMF builds on that.
What your body doesn't need is 1000 calories of chicken breast when your maintenance calories is over 4000.
I still want to know whether the other 3000 are in your diet are also just "chicken and salad" or if you're eating something that actually has some calorie density that doesn't require you eating 10 pounds of food a day. Also your essential fats seem lacking.
Quinoa
Nuts
peanutbutter
Vegetables
Red lean meat
Cheeses
Chicken
Fish
butter and olive oil for cooking
Mayo for mixing
eggs
When I am in my growth cycles 4000+
When I am cutting 2800
and yes I seem to eat all day long
I don't understand why you consider BBQ sauce (mostly carbohydrates) to be empty calories but mayo (mostly fat) is somehow okay?
people eat enough sugar in their normal consumption I don;t want more
*You* don't want more. That doesn't mean that other people don't want carbohydrates.
Is there a logical reason why a food made mainly of a single macronutrient is "empty" if it's one type of macronutrient, but not "empty" if it's another macronutrient?8 -
-
jessiferrrb wrote: »
The Impossible Burger? I'm really looking forward to trying it!1 -
-
janejellyroll wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »
Some people CAN NOT volume eat. I, for example, have gastroparesis. If I volume ate I'd be in severe pain and vomiting non stop. Salad is also a no no as I am low fiber and it would rip my insides apart. Some people need calorie dense foods to meet their calorie needs.
Yep, in addition to people with medical conditions, there are also people who just don't like to eat larger amounts of food. My husband is one. He gets full really easily so calorie-dense foods are perfect for him. A smallish bacon cheeseburger, without a side, would be a whole meal for him and one that he would find quite satisfying. When we go out to eat, he virtually never finishes a whole burger.
There are also people who get volume in other ways.
I don't care about skinless boneless chicken breast, so when I was losing I would usually spend more calories on a pork chop (from a farm, so more fat than the usual US supermarket pork chop) or lamb or chicken thighs with skin or salmon or a bean stew or eggs (WHOLE eggs) or whatever. But did that mean I had tiny little meals? No, you can still bulk up a meal with lots of vegetables.
Not everyone is a volume eater anyway, but this idea that if you get your protein other than from chicken breast you are starving (and that you need to eat insane amounts of chicken breast) is bizarre.6 -
I'm not trying to be fit, I am fit.Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.
nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns
Moving bar?
You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.
First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.
Please don't talk about moving the bar.
who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious
What if you can't eat 4 times the food?
when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-
But I'm no-one's idea of an elite athlete.
Ended up more than 1,000 cals in deficit so that mythical burger would have fitted in pretty well.
8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »
The Impossible Burger? I'm really looking forward to trying it!
i really like them because they do well on the grill and kind of look like a 'real' burger - not as flat as most veggie patties. i think they taste great too but i would be lying if i claimed they tasted like meat because i honestly don't remember what meat tastes like.3 -
This content has been removed.
-
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.
nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns
Moving bar?
You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.
First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.
Please don't talk about moving the bar.
who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious
What if you can't eat 4 times the food?
when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-
You can get all the micronutrients you need in a few hundred calories. Vegetables are awesome like that. What you need in protein and fats varies by your weight but the minimums are also just a few hundred calories. You can, in theory, get all the nutrition your body needs, your minimums, in below 1000 calories. The PSMF builds on that.
What your body doesn't need is 1000 calories of chicken breast when your maintenance calories is over 4000.
I still want to know whether the other 3000 are in your diet are also just "chicken and salad" or if you're eating something that actually has some calorie density that doesn't require you eating 10 pounds of food a day. Also your essential fats seem lacking.
Quinoa
Nuts
peanutbutter
Vegetables
Red lean meat
Cheeses
Chicken
Fish
butter and olive oil for cooking
Mayo for mixing
eggs
When I am in my growth cycles 4000+
When I am cutting 2800
and yes I seem to eat all day long
I don't understand why you consider BBQ sauce (mostly carbohydrates) to be empty calories but mayo (mostly fat) is somehow okay?
people eat enough sugar in their normal consumption I don;t want more
*You* don't want more. That doesn't mean that other people don't want carbohydrates.
Is there a logical reason why a food made mainly of a single macronutrient is "empty" if it's one type of macronutrient, but not "empty" if it's another macronutrient?
we - as a society - consume too much sugar 60 pound too much on average - so I elect to not consume as much as other - I feel too much sugar in detrimental to fitness
repeating bad math doesn't make it good math17 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.
nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns
Moving bar?
You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.
First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.
Please don't talk about moving the bar.
who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious
What if you can't eat 4 times the food?
when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-
You can get all the micronutrients you need in a few hundred calories. Vegetables are awesome like that. What you need in protein and fats varies by your weight but the minimums are also just a few hundred calories. You can, in theory, get all the nutrition your body needs, your minimums, in below 1000 calories. The PSMF builds on that.
What your body doesn't need is 1000 calories of chicken breast when your maintenance calories is over 4000.
I still want to know whether the other 3000 are in your diet are also just "chicken and salad" or if you're eating something that actually has some calorie density that doesn't require you eating 10 pounds of food a day. Also your essential fats seem lacking.
Quinoa
Nuts
peanutbutter
Vegetables
Red lean meat
Cheeses
Chicken
Fish
butter and olive oil for cooking
Mayo for mixing
eggs
When I am in my growth cycles 4000+
When I am cutting 2800
and yes I seem to eat all day long
I don't understand why you consider BBQ sauce (mostly carbohydrates) to be empty calories but mayo (mostly fat) is somehow okay?
people eat enough sugar in their normal consumption I don;t want more
*You* don't want more. That doesn't mean that other people don't want carbohydrates.
Is there a logical reason why a food made mainly of a single macronutrient is "empty" if it's one type of macronutrient, but not "empty" if it's another macronutrient?
we - as a society - consume too much sugar 60 pound too much on average - so I elect to not consume as much as other - I feel too much sugar in detrimental to fitness
As is too much fat. And too much protein. That's kinda the definition of the phrase "too much".11 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
In the Special K thread, he was all about the fat being good...
Hmm. Excellent point.
In fact, as I result he was upset that the poor Special K was stripped of its inherent fat (LOL), but seems totally cool with the low fat chicken breast that is stripped of the fat it otherwise would have.
Interesting.8 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.
nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns
Moving bar?
You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.
First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.
Please don't talk about moving the bar.
who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious
What if you can't eat 4 times the food?
when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-
You can get all the micronutrients you need in a few hundred calories. Vegetables are awesome like that. What you need in protein and fats varies by your weight but the minimums are also just a few hundred calories. You can, in theory, get all the nutrition your body needs, your minimums, in below 1000 calories. The PSMF builds on that.
What your body doesn't need is 1000 calories of chicken breast when your maintenance calories is over 4000.
I still want to know whether the other 3000 are in your diet are also just "chicken and salad" or if you're eating something that actually has some calorie density that doesn't require you eating 10 pounds of food a day. Also your essential fats seem lacking.
Quinoa
Nuts
peanutbutter
Vegetables
Red lean meat
Cheeses
Chicken
Fish
butter and olive oil for cooking
Mayo for mixing
eggs
When I am in my growth cycles 4000+
When I am cutting 2800
and yes I seem to eat all day long
I don't understand why you consider BBQ sauce (mostly carbohydrates) to be empty calories but mayo (mostly fat) is somehow okay?
people eat enough sugar in their normal consumption I don;t want more
*You* don't want more. That doesn't mean that other people don't want carbohydrates.
Is there a logical reason why a food made mainly of a single macronutrient is "empty" if it's one type of macronutrient, but not "empty" if it's another macronutrient?
we - as a society - consume too much sugar 60 pound too much on average - so I elect to not consume as much as other - I feel too much sugar in detrimental to fitness
you're just being so general and bouncing off of one topic to another. Can you refresh us all what you are actually trying to debate at this point? I don't mean that condescending, I'm just unclear at what you think at this point.
First it was no junk food, now it's junk food in moderation. Then it was diet is bad, only fitness, but we've done nothing EXCEPT talking about diet.
What are you trying to prove still?
ETA: I left off my favorite one "junk food lessens the length of your life, someone who eats junk will die before me" (loosely quoted)1 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »2 shot tequila
1 shot amaretto
1 shot triple sec
2 Shots Orange Juice
1 Shot Lime Juice
orange flavored sugar rimmer
Italian Margarita
The correct answer is Scotch.5 -
This content has been removed.
-
Oh no. Are we really back to poor mathematics again? Because I am really not great at maths "math" but even I know that 30g of carbs is not the same as 30g of sugar.6
-
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.
nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns
Moving bar?
You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.
First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.
Please don't talk about moving the bar.
who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious
What if you can't eat 4 times the food?
when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-
You can get all the micronutrients you need in a few hundred calories. Vegetables are awesome like that. What you need in protein and fats varies by your weight but the minimums are also just a few hundred calories. You can, in theory, get all the nutrition your body needs, your minimums, in below 1000 calories. The PSMF builds on that.
What your body doesn't need is 1000 calories of chicken breast when your maintenance calories is over 4000.
I still want to know whether the other 3000 are in your diet are also just "chicken and salad" or if you're eating something that actually has some calorie density that doesn't require you eating 10 pounds of food a day. Also your essential fats seem lacking.
Quinoa
Nuts
peanutbutter
Vegetables
Red lean meat
Cheeses
Chicken
Fish
butter and olive oil for cooking
Mayo for mixing
eggs
When I am in my growth cycles 4000+
When I am cutting 2800
and yes I seem to eat all day long
I don't understand why you consider BBQ sauce (mostly carbohydrates) to be empty calories but mayo (mostly fat) is somehow okay?
people eat enough sugar in their normal consumption I don;t want more
*You* don't want more. That doesn't mean that other people don't want carbohydrates.
Is there a logical reason why a food made mainly of a single macronutrient is "empty" if it's one type of macronutrient, but not "empty" if it's another macronutrient?
we - as a society - consume too much sugar 60 pound too much on average - so I elect to not consume as much as other - I feel too much sugar in detrimental to fitness
As a society we may, but as individuals we can pay attention to how much sugar we consume and decide (if we want) to have some of it come from BBQ sauce.
We don't make our dietary decisions based on the average diet of other people or the average needs of other people (or we shouldn't, anyway!), we should make the decision based on the context of our own food choices and needs. Avoiding some BBQ sauce because someone else is eating too much sugar doesn't make any sense.
Again, is there a logical reason why a food that is mainly carbohydrates would be empty but a food that is mainly fat wouldn't be? Some people consume too much fat. This doesn't mean everyone has to avoid fat or that fat is "empty" calories, does it?
If Americans began consuming a lot more fat, would you consider your mayo to transform into "empty calories" that you should limit even if you were at a healthy level of fat consumption?3 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?
lean meat - sauteed onion rings and peppers a bit of mozzarella cheese maybe some crushed bacon - no bun no sauce in a lettuce wrap
Ok, but, you didn't even attempt to answer my question. Why cant I eat the burger that way? Why does it have to be on a bun, with deep-fried onion rings and BBQ sauce? To accurately compare, shouldn't the chicken breast be on a bun, with onion rings, smothered in BBQ sauce?
YOU CAAAAAAAN - my point was between the 2 that burger or a chicken breast with salad you can eat more nutritious food - if you are active and fit you need more nutrient dense food between the 2 - a Carls jr Bacon western Cheeseburger or a sald with chicken breast the later is the better choice for fitness
But didn't the Carl's Jr Bacon Western Cheeseburger originally come up because you were attempting to use it as some sort of stand-in for the typical cheeseburger?
Weren't you the one who did that while other people were arguing that cheeseburgers come in all sorts of forms and it's possible for all types of people to find a version that fits into their calorie and nutritional goals and there's nothing inherently unhealthy about foods that fall into the category of "cheeseburger"?
And all this in the context of you refusing to even explain why you are so convinced that someone who is meeting their nutritional needs but sometimes having a cheeseburger, even a Carl's Jr Bacon Western Cheeseburger, is going to be worse off.
Nope I used the 2 because the person thought I was part of the eat what you want as long as you stay within your calorie range
Well, are we talking weight loss (where they can work) or nutrition (where of course what you eat matters and some diets are bad and some good -- note: diet here means "way one eats")?
Of course, if you know anything about nutrition you know that there's no inherent nutritional difference between someone who only eats chicken breast as their protein vs. someone who eats a variety of protein sources, including occasional cheeseburgers.
Single meals do not make that much difference, it's the overall diet. And also a meal involving a cheeseburger can be nutrient dense, and in fact more nutrient dense than a meal involving a chicken breast (or 5, sigh).
If I like cheeseburgers and really want one, it is far more likely that making myself one (or even going out to dinner for one, although I wouldn't choose Carl Jr's, again, that seems to be your thing) will do more to deal with the temptation to overeat than having boneless skinless chicken breast (which I don't much care for). And I've never found that eating a cheeseburger makes me hungry the next day. I might save calories for it, but eh, that's not a huge trade off (I do this with meals I prefer at restaurants, like Indian food, all the time).
thus I said Chicken, Fish, Lean Red Meat
A burger can involve lean red meat.
So are you keto but anti sat fat?4 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.
nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns
Moving bar?
You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.
First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.
Please don't talk about moving the bar.
who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious
What if you can't eat 4 times the food?
when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-
You can get all the micronutrients you need in a few hundred calories. Vegetables are awesome like that. What you need in protein and fats varies by your weight but the minimums are also just a few hundred calories. You can, in theory, get all the nutrition your body needs, your minimums, in below 1000 calories. The PSMF builds on that.
What your body doesn't need is 1000 calories of chicken breast when your maintenance calories is over 4000.
I still want to know whether the other 3000 are in your diet are also just "chicken and salad" or if you're eating something that actually has some calorie density that doesn't require you eating 10 pounds of food a day. Also your essential fats seem lacking.
Quinoa
Nuts
peanutbutter
Vegetables
Red lean meat
Cheeses
Chicken
Fish
butter and olive oil for cooking
Mayo for mixing
eggs
When I am in my growth cycles 4000+
When I am cutting 2800
and yes I seem to eat all day long
I don't understand why you consider BBQ sauce (mostly carbohydrates) to be empty calories but mayo (mostly fat) is somehow okay?
people eat enough sugar in their normal consumption I don;t want more
*You* don't want more. That doesn't mean that other people don't want carbohydrates.
Is there a logical reason why a food made mainly of a single macronutrient is "empty" if it's one type of macronutrient, but not "empty" if it's another macronutrient?
we - as a society - consume too much sugar 60 pound too much on average - so I elect to not consume as much as other - I feel too much sugar in detrimental to fitness
I make my dietary decisions based on what fits into my diet, though, not what fits into the diet of society as a whole. That sounds exhausting.6 -
This content has been removed.
-
VintageFeline wrote: »Oh no. Are we really back to poor mathematics again? Because I am really not great at maths "math" but even I know that 30g of carbs is not the same as 30g of sugar.
Plus, as I recall, it was 28 g of carbs, of which 5 g were sugar, or something like that. He double counted.1 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »2 shot tequila
1 shot amaretto
1 shot triple sec
2 Shots Orange Juice
1 Shot Lime Juice
orange flavored sugar rimmer
Italian Margarita
The correct answer is Scotch.
You misspelled Wheated Bourbon.
4
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions