Ketogenic diet
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I have a year experiance on keto. Aswell as CICO. Both with success. I know how it all works. Please do your research.24
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And there not always netting the same. Most girls here aim for 1200-1600. On keto if you go more into 2000 you still lose given your macros are still right
I don't know that most "girls" here aim for 1,200-1,600 (I don't have access to the data you're basing that claim on), but if someone is losing at 2,000 on keto, they would also lose at 2,000 on a non-keto plan. Keto works by creating a deficit, it doesn't change how energy works.
You can't eat more calories and lose the same amount.
Someone who is doing keto may be focusing on macros and someone who is counting calories may be focusing on calories, but they're just different ways to get to to the same destination -- a calorie deficit.14 -
I've done lots of research, and also tried keto for a period of time (I was at maintenance).
Keto is not separate from CICO, btw, and CICO is not calorie counting. But also, of course, lots of people who do calorie counting find it beneficial to cut carbs (from some to keto levels) and lots of people who do keto also count calories.
If you magically lost just from keto-ing and regardless of calories, how do people bulk or maintain on keto?13 -
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I have a year experiance on keto. Aswell as CICO. Both with success. I know how it all works. Please do your research.
A year of personal experience doing a specific dietary plan like keto doesn't necessarily make you an expert in how weight loss is actually generated. I'm glad you've had success, but you have some fundamental misunderstandings about how weight loss is actually created.
When you ask us to do research on this, what research led you to conclude that weight loss on keto isn't created by a calorie deficit? I'm not aware of any studies that demonstrate this, so if you share your sources so we're all on the same page it may help the conversation move forward.6 -
I have a year experiance on keto. Aswell as CICO. Both with success. I know how it all works. Please do your research.
if you are counting/watching your macros you are still basically counting calories, as if your macros add up then your calories should fall into place.CICO is the formula for ALL ways of eating. a calorie is a measurement of energy. If you take in more energy than your burn you gain,less that you take in you lose and if its equal you maintain your weight.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Yes! I love keto! I love the energy, mental clarity and food selection! There's variations of everything you can make and it helps you reduce your calories. Also helps water weight and inflammation. But as others said its not for everyone and some people feel easier low cal. I have had success with both but enjoy how i feel on keto and find I'm eating and thinking about food less. Fuller longer. Good luck in whatever you choose tho. And wouldn't hurt to try and see if it works for you:)
Someone losing "x" pound a week on keto is netting the same number of calories as someone losing "x" pound a week without doing keto, so it isn't that some people feel better doing "low cal," it's more like some people just don't find the restrictions of keto worth the benefits of appetite suppression or don't personally experience the benefit of appetite suppression.
In other words, to frame it as "low cal" versus keto isn't accurate.
I worded that wrong I guess. If your doing keto its not about the calories as much as macros is what i meant. Doing CICO your paying attention too calories. Keto you pay attention too fats carbs and proteins there a diffrent way of scale. When worrying about calories you eat more lean things keto you pile on the fat.
Whatever diet you choose, you are always "doing" CICO...8 -
I notice a lot of negativity aimed at the Keto approach, funny that given that it is in a thread about keto, why bother following the thread if you're not into it or have anything positive to add?
Looking at the previous posts count in the 'anti' corner it perhaps it may explain!
Just saying ;-)18 -
Just correcting mis-information...4
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I notice a lot of negativity aimed at the Keto approach, funny that given that it is in a thread about keto, why bother following the thread if you're not into it or have anything positive to add?
Looking at the previous posts count in the 'anti' corner it perhaps it may explain!
Just saying ;-)
This is the debate area, so this particular thread is drawing those who are interested in debating various claims about keto.
If you're seeking pure positive comments in threads, I suggest checking out some other areas of the site. "Motivation and Support" may be a better fit, for example.8 -
I notice a lot of negativity aimed at the Keto approach, funny that given that it is in a thread about keto, why bother following the thread if you're not into it or have anything positive to add?
Looking at the previous posts count in the 'anti' corner it perhaps it may explain!
Just saying ;-)
The negativity isn't aimed at keto. It is a valid choice if that is someone's preference. Your implication that keto carries some fat loss advantage that trumps energy balance is what is being challenged.
As other have said, if you have studies, or meta-analyses or scholarly article that support your assertion, please post them. That is how debates work. Debates generally do not work by accusing others of "negativity" or telling them to do their research while not presenting any of your own.
FTR, I've done my research and posted a meta-analysis earlier in the thread. In it, there was no advantage demonstrated for wieght/ fat loss over other forms of calorie restriction. Maybe you should take a look.6 -
I did keto for a couple of months over a year ago. Now, this is my experience, but I absolutely hated it. I was tired, lethargic, weak, had headaches, had zero stamina at the gym. I was in ketosis (I was testing with the strips frequently), but I felt depleted. I supplemented with magnesium and potassium and nothing worked with my energy levels. On top of that, I didn't lose a single pound. I rage quit the thing, and started eating all the carbs. All the good, delicious carbs, and my energy increased, my workouts got better, and I no longer felt like I was walking in a fog. Again, this is just my experience, but I would never do it again. I'm tracking macros and seeing results without cutting anything out. You have to find what works for you, but keto was not it for me.4
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I'm not into debating but will state my experience.
I've been low carb for ~5 years.
2013-14, I ate at a calorie deficit to lose my excess 60 pounds.
2014-15, I continued with low carb at maintenance calories
In 2016, I opted for keto for 52 weeks eating less than 20 carbs per day. Strictly measured maintenance calories.
In 2017, I continued with very LCHF eating ~50 carbs per day.
In 2018, I've flexed a bit on carbs and fat but still eat what most would consider a ketogenic diet... most days.
Regardless of the calorie calculators/TDEE calculators-keto or otherwise-they all tend to be about the same in their estimates for the amount of calories I can eat in order to maintain my weight. Unfortunately none of those darn keto calculators give me a higher number. And so, I have adhered to the average and eaten the same amount "forever". And maintained. (I find MFP to be accurate in my case).
I'm not super motivated to exercise (except during weight loss, year 1) but sometimes I get a wild hair to get out and walk at a brisk pace regularly for 3-5 miles. I can eat a little more then but not much. A couple hundred calories at most, which is just a couple of eggs or a couple small chunks of cheese.
I tend to not eat back my "extra" calories becsuse for some odd reason 
I get most motivated to take regular brisk walks every day when I've hit my maximum maintenance weight range. 
CICO. The benefit I have found (for me) is LCHF tends to eliminate the hunger I experienced previously. Nothing more. Adherence to calories is easier.
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I notice a lot of negativity aimed at the Keto approach, funny that given that it is in a thread about keto, why bother following the thread if you're not into it or have anything positive to add?
Looking at the previous posts count in the 'anti' corner it perhaps it may explain!
Just saying ;-)
Not exactly sure what you are trying to say with the bolded, but if you think that saying keto works well as a strategy for reducing calories for a lot of people, but does not cause weight loss without a calorie deficit = being negative about keto, I think you have a really weird definition of negativity.5 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I notice a lot of negativity aimed at the Keto approach, funny that given that it is in a thread about keto, why bother following the thread if you're not into it or have anything positive to add?
Looking at the previous posts count in the 'anti' corner it perhaps it may explain!
Just saying ;-)
Not exactly sure what you are trying to say with the bolded, but if you think that saying keto works well as a strategy for reducing calories for a lot of people, but does not cause weight loss without a calorie deficit = being negative about keto, I think you have a really weird definition of negativity.
I wonder if it's a backslap, kind of trying to say "if you had followed Keto you would be at goal and wouldn't still be here on the message board". When really it's the other way around. This is a fun board (I enjoy the train wrecks) and the people who have high post counts have seen the conversations go round and round. They know the deal and the science.2 -
Yeah, lots of us are here for the conversations, not the weight loss (anymore).4
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Yup one of many long time posters who isn't trying to lose weight (and never was actually)1
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I notice a lot of negativity aimed at the Keto approach, funny that given that it is in a thread about keto, why bother following the thread if you're not into it or have anything positive to add?
Looking at the previous posts count in the 'anti' corner it perhaps it may explain!
Just saying ;-)
There isn't negativity aimed at keto, though it's taken that way since there's a plethora of cognitive dissonance in keto/lchf echo chambers. Personal anecdotes, n=1, subjective experience, etc. are not objective data. They are helpful to that specific person, but are limited in that same right.
When presented with evidence, it is usually those in the keto community that tends to get riled up and form a mob mentality against naysayers who "dismiss" n=1 data. The same can be said for dieters and fitpros who may never had personal experience with diabetes or severe obesity, however, the overarching premise is that because neither dieter has experienced the other's life, arguing which approach is best becomes a moot point.
I trend a low[er] carb diet by choice and belong to multiple keto groups, yet I don't adhere to one set rule for everyone. Based on my observation, keto zealots become easy targets because of how easily triggered they become when faced with challenging views. Not that they're completely wrong, but when emotions cloud factual reasoning, it becomes an exchange of ad hominems and strawman fallacies.
Frankly, ALL DIETS WORK in the fact that they follow some form of energy balance manipulation by creating a deficit. Full stop. Whether people actively or passively track intake, the end result is the same: a reduction in chronic intake pattern results in fat loss. Fat loss produces positive changes in health, mood, energy levels, self-image, etc. Protein will never not be a priority macronutrient. The ratio of carbs:fat are irrelevant in a caloric deficit. Ketosis is irrelevant to fat loss.
The hierarchy of nutrition will always follow calories > macros > micros > nutrient timing > supplements, in that order. Meaning calories/energy balance will always be the foundation for what governs fat gain or fat loss.13 -
I notice a lot of negativity aimed at the Keto approach, funny that given that it is in a thread about keto, why bother following the thread if you're not into it or have anything positive to add?
Looking at the previous posts count in the 'anti' corner it perhaps it may explain!
Just saying ;-)
The negativity towards the keto community is not aimed at keto per say, it's aimed towards the people who give really poor information and I am amazed at how many keto followers don't believe in CICO.....it's the equivalent of a person still believing that the world is flat and that the Earth is the center of the universe.12 -
macrologger wrote: »I did keto for a couple of months over a year ago. Now, this is my experience, but I absolutely hated it. I was tired, lethargic, weak, had headaches, had zero stamina at the gym. I was in ketosis (I was testing with the strips frequently), but I felt depleted. I supplemented with magnesium and potassium and nothing worked with my energy levels. On top of that, I didn't lose a single pound. I rage quit the thing, and started eating all the carbs. All the good, delicious carbs, and my energy increased, my workouts got better, and I no longer felt like I was walking in a fog. Again, this is just my experience, but I would never do it again. I'm tracking macros and seeing results without cutting anything out. You have to find what works for you, but keto was not it for me.
I had the same issue but for me I have a genetic defect that makes it to where my body cant process fats and cholesterol properly and it gets stored in my body. I lost water weight but I thought by month 2 I was dying I felt so bad.4
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