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Artificial Sweetners-Gum and Diet Pop
Replies
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cthakkar1985 wrote: »
The argument isn't just about diet soda. We're talking about all caffeinated beverages. 500mg isn't that difficult to hit. Just 1 venti blonde roast from Starbucks has 475mg of caffeine.
Actually this thread is about artificial sweeteners. Someone hijacked the thread to preach drinking nothing but pure water and now you are piling on with the caffeine tangent.
Even if a venti blonde roast acts as a diuretic, you are still adding water along with the caffeine so you will still have a net gain of water. So if your point is that no one should rely entirely on venti blonde roasts for hydration because the caffeine will make your heart explode before you take in a reasonable amount of hydration, I guess you may have a point.
None of that changes the fact that artificial sweeteners are fine, caffeine does not entirely negate the water it's carried in, and there is no scientifically accurate reason to drink only plain water. :drinker:9 -
I am not a sweets person. At best I see the artificial sweeteners as empty food value. At worst I wonder what role if any they play in type 2 diabetes. By role I mean if it can trick your taste buds I wonder if it fools any other organs. Anyway I don't do or need the research. I never use any sugar and am fine with plain old water or unsweetened ice tea.14
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Actually this thread is about artificial sweeteners. Someone hijacked the thread to preach drinking nothing but pure water and now you are piling on with the caffeine tangent.
Even if a venti blonde roast acts as a diuretic, you are still adding water along with the caffeine so you will still have a net gain of water. So if your point is that no one should rely entirely on venti blonde roasts for hydration because the caffeine will make your heart explode before you take in a reasonable amount of hydration, I guess you may have a point.
None of that changes the fact that artificial sweeteners are fine, caffeine does not entirely negate the water it's carried in, and there is no scientifically accurate reason to drink only plain water. :drinker:
Additionally the dehydrating effect of caffeine is a one time effect after a period of avoidance. Someone who has it regularily becomes immune to the diuretic nature which leads you to believe its more of a shock response to excessive caffine spikes than the caffeine itself.4 -
I am not a sweets person. At best I see the artificial sweeteners as empty food value. At worst I wonder what role if any they play in type 2 diabetes. By role I mean if it can trick your taste buds I wonder if it fools any other organs. Anyway I don't do or need the research. I never use any sugar and am fine with plain old water or unsweetened ice tea.
I don't believe artificial sweeteners "trick" the taste buds, they legit taste sweet. Other stuff tastes sweet without having any sugar in it, like mint for example. Does chewing mint leaves cause diabetes too?
Insulin response is triggered by the actual presence of glucose in the blood. It doesn't have anything to do with sweetness.
There are diabetics all over the world pricking their fingers and monitoring their blood glucose levels several times a day, and they are routinely encouraged to switch to diet soda. If artificial sweeteners were "tricking" the insulin response, I think all of those diabetics would have noticed by now.5 -
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Actually this thread is about artificial sweeteners. Someone hijacked the thread to preach drinking nothing but pure water and now you are piling on with the caffeine tangent.
Even if a venti blonde roast acts as a diuretic, you are still adding water along with the caffeine so you will still have a net gain of water. So if your point is that no one should rely entirely on venti blonde roasts for hydration because the caffeine will make your heart explode before you take in a reasonable amount of hydration, I guess you may have a point.
None of that changes the fact that artificial sweeteners are fine, caffeine does not entirely negate the water it's carried in, and there is no scientifically accurate reason to drink only plain water. :drinker:
It's very common for a thread to start with a specific question(s) and lead to additional follow-up questions. Part of normal conversation. In this case, OP mentioned that Stevia caused her to urinate frequently, which is how I think the hydration/water topic came up. Not sure why this is a problem.
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cthakkar1985 wrote: »
Not sure if you followed along with the whole thread. Somebody stated that drinking 1 gallon (16 cups) of tea is equivalent to drinking 1 gallon of water each day. My main point is that I think it's fine to drink tea, soda, diet soda, juices, beer, wine, whatever you want. I find it difficult to get to my goal of absorbing 1 gallon of water a day without the majority of my intake coming from actual water. To be clear, I drink coffee, tea, beer, etc. but mostly I drink water due to it having 0 calories and no potential side effects of drinking too much of it as opposed to most other drinks (whether the side effects are because of too much sugar, calories, caffeine, etc.)
I followed along the whole thread. I'm not sure why your personal goal of "absorbing" 1 gallon of water is relevant to the conversation at all.5 -
cthakkar1985 wrote: »
The argument isn't just about diet soda. We're talking about all caffeinated beverages. 500mg isn't that difficult to hit. Just 1 venti blonde roast from Starbucks has 475mg of caffeine.
This thread is about diet soda, specifically the sweeteners in them. It's not about caffeine at all actually. The typical person drinking diet soda doesn't have to worry about consuming 500 mg of caffeine from them so I don't understand why you are hyperfocused on edge cases.3 -
There are a lot of sodas that don't have caffeine. Colas have caffeine...most other sodas do not, with the exception of Mt. Dew0
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janejellyroll wrote: »
I followed along the whole thread. I'm not sure why your personal goal of "absorbing" 1 gallon of water is relevant to the conversation at all.
Because OP mentioned that Stevia causes her to urinate frequently, so dehydration may be something of concern for her.
I'm saying my personal goal since we're discussing the topic of staying hydrated. It's like if we were talking about protein intake and I said my goal is 1g/lb of body weight. Not sure what the problem is here.4 -
cthakkar1985 wrote: »
Because OP mentioned that Stevia causes her to urinate frequently, so dehydration may be something of concern for her.
I'm saying my personal goal since we're discussing the topic of staying hydrated. It's like if we were talking about protein intake and I said my goal is 1g/lb of body weight. Not sure what the problem is here.
I believe OP's concern was about frequent and urgent urination -- that's a different issue than staying hydrated. Did I miss where she shared her concern was dehydration and not specifically the frequent and urgent urination?3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
I believe OP's concern was about frequent and urgent urination -- that's a different issue than staying hydrated. Did I miss where she shared her concern was dehydration and not specifically the frequent and urgent urination?
Dehydration is a common side effect of frequent urination. Decided to go above and beyond and provide advice on this as well. Kind of like extra credit.5 -
cthakkar1985 wrote: »
It's very common for a thread to start with a specific question(s) and lead to additional follow-up questions. Part of normal conversation. In this case, OP mentioned that Stevia caused her to urinate frequently, which is how I think the hydration/water topic came up. Not sure why this is a problem.
Except that's not what happened here. One poster hijacked the thread and led it into an argument about why you should only drink water. Has absolutely nothing to do with the OP or her questions. If you'd like to debate the drawbacks and benefits of different beverages on hydration, perhaps you and @kazane1 should start your own thread in the Debate section.
OP was asking about people's experiences with diet soda, and said she asked because stevia causes her BP to drop and frequent urination. She said nothing about hydration or caffeine or anything other than people's experiences with diet soda.6 -
cthakkar1985 wrote: »
Dehydration is a common side effect of frequent urination. Decided to go above and beyond and provide advice on this as well. Kind of like extra credit.
She only has frequent urination when she consumes stevia. Dehydration isn't a typical concern for her (unless she just hasn't shared it yet). It's your concern, one that you are projecting on her.6 -
My dad was diagnosed with diabetes in 1997. He drinks coffee with Equal and Diet Coke every day. Neither one has an effect on his blood sugar.I am not a sweets person. At best I see the artificial sweeteners as empty food value. At worst I wonder what role if any they play in type 2 diabetes. By role I mean if it can trick your taste buds I wonder if it fools any other organs. Anyway I don't do or need the research. I never use any sugar and am fine with plain old water or unsweetened ice tea.
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janejellyroll wrote: »
She only has frequent urination when she consumes stevia. Dehydration isn't a typical concern for her (unless she just hasn't shared it yet). It's your concern, one that you are projecting on her.
So basically what you're saying is that no one is allowed to deviate at all from the exact question from the OP? If somebody posted "Is it better to smoke cigarettes before or after a workout?", I have to either answer "before" or "after", but if I said something like cigarettes cause lung cancer, it would be a good idea to quit, I'm somehow breaking the rules of the MFP message boards? I don't understand why this is such a big deal.10 -
cthakkar1985 wrote: »
So basically what you're saying is that no one is allowed to deviate at all from the exact question from the OP? If somebody posted "Is it better to smoke cigarettes before or after a workout?", I have to either answer "before" or "after", but if I said something like cigarettes cause lung cancer, it would be a good idea to quit, I'm somehow breaking the rules of the MFP message boards? I don't understand why this is such a big deal.
You know, I was in the middle of answering your question seriously, but if you're comparing drinking a diet coke to smoking a cigarette . . . I just can't take that seriously. You're talking about two completely different things.
If you want to go into threads warning people you think they're in danger of dehydration if they consume mega-amounts of diet soda,go ahead. If you think that's a realistic threat to their wellbeing, why do you care that I disagree? I'm not a mod and my opinion on the helpfulness and relevance of your posts isn't something that you're obligated to consider.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
You know, I was in the middle of answering your question seriously, but if you're comparing drinking a diet coke to smoking a cigarette . . . I just can't take that seriously. You're talking about two completely different things.
If you want to go into threads warning people you think they're in danger of dehydration if they consume mega-amounts of diet soda,go ahead. If you think that's a realistic threat to their wellbeing, why do you care that I disagree? I'm not a mod and my opinion on the helpfulness and relevance of your posts isn't something that you're obligated to consider.
You're the one that keeps commenting on my posts. In simple terms, I said, frequent urination, oh drink plenty of water to make sure you're hydrated and you've been going on and on about whether or not that was an appropriate post for this thread.
I'm the one that's actually trying to offer what I think might be valuable advice to the OP, not criticizing the relevancy of other people's posts.11 -
cthakkar1985 wrote: »
This depends on how much caffeine is in your tea. In moderate doses, there is no evidence of dehydration from caffeine, I'll give you that point. Some studies show that over 500mg of caffeine do have a dehydrating affect. Let me define what I mean by dehydrating. Basically, if you drank 1 gallon of tea, you wouldn't absorb 1 gallon of water. 1 gallon of tea = 16 cups, which could easily put you over the 500mg caffeine threshold depending on the type of tea.
NopeThe available literature suggests that acute ingestion of caffeine in large doses (at least 250–300 mg, equivalent to the amount found in 2–3 cups of coffee or 5–8 cups of tea) results in a short‐term stimulation of urine output in individuals who have been deprived of caffeine for a period of days or weeks. A profound tolerance to the diuretic and other effects of caffeine develops, however, and the actions are much diminished in individuals who regularly consume tea or coffee. Doses of caffeine equivalent to the amount normally found in standard servings of tea, coffee and carbonated soft drinks appear to have no diuretic action.
Conclusion The most ecologically valid of the published studies offers no support for the suggestion that consumption of caffeine‐containing beverages as part of a normal lifestyle leads to fluid loss in excess of the volume ingested or is associated with poor hydration status. Therefore, there would appear to be no clear basis for refraining from caffeine containing drinks in situations where fluid balance might be compromised.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1365-277X.2003.00477.x
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cthakkar1985 wrote: »
You're the one that keeps commenting on my posts. In simple terms, I said, frequent urination, oh drink plenty of water to make sure you're hydrated and you've been going on and on about whether or not that was an appropriate post for this thread.
I'm the one that's actually trying to offer what I think might be valuable advice to the OP, not criticizing the relevancy of other people's posts.
I'm participating in a thread. If you don't feel we need to focus on OP's actual stated concerns and you don't wish to respond to my posts, you're free to ignore me.3 -
cthakkar1985 wrote: »
Dehydration is a common side effect of frequent urination. Decided to go above and beyond and provide advice on this as well. Kind of like extra credit.
Except you don't get extra credit when your answer(s) is/are wrong.
And you keep talking about excess urination, but then say to drink water. Which, as you acknowledged previously, makes you urinate more.
It's ok to admit you don't know something. It's often the first step in learning.9 -
Except you don't get extra credit when your answer(s) is/are wrong.
And you keep talking about excess urination, but then say to drink water. Which, as you acknowledged previously, makes you urinate more.
It's ok to admit you don't know something. It's often the first step in learning.
Not claiming to be an expert on the topic. OP said stevia gives her excess urination. I don't know anything about whether or not stevia causes excess urination, but that's what she claims. Drinking water instead of anything with stevia might help her issue.
Obviously, anything you drink will cause you to urinate, but drinking water instead of beverages with stevia may mitigate some of the excess urination for OP and allow her to stay hydrated.9 -
cthakkar1985 wrote: »
Not claiming to be an expert on the topic. OP said stevia gives her excess urination. I don't know anything about whether or not stevia causes excess urination, but that's what she claims. Drinking water instead of anything with stevia might help her issue.
Obviously, anything you drink will cause you to urinate, but drinking water instead of beverages with stevia may mitigate some of the excess urination for OP and allow her to stay hydrated.
If the issue is stevia, then I would think the solution would be drinking beverages that don't have it. Water, of course, would be included in that group. But so would other beverages.6 -
cthakkar1985 wrote: »
Not claiming to be an expert on the topic. OP said stevia gives her excess urination. I don't know anything about whether or not stevia causes excess urination, but that's what she claims. Drinking water instead of anything with stevia might help her issue.
Obviously, anything you drink will cause you to urinate, but drinking water instead of beverages with stevia may mitigate some of the excess urination for OP and allow her to stay hydrated.
Usually if a substance causes excess or sudden urination, the effect is physiological not hydraulic, meaning that drinking more water will make the problem worse.
Also meaning that the effect impacts the integrity of the various sphincters and not necessarily the quantity of water voided.3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
Usually if a substance causes excess or sudden urination, the effect is physiological not hydraulic, meaning that drinking more water will make the problem worse.
Also meaning that the effect impacts the integrity of the various sphincters and not necessarily the quantity of water voided.
Hmm...do you think drinking the same amount of fluid as before, but removing the substance (stevia in this case) that seems to be causing the problem improve the situation? So instead of drinking 8 glasses of water with stevia, just drink 8 glasses of water.2 -
I think we've established that the OP should not drink or eat anything with stevia unless there is a free bathroom nearby.
Considering the number of drinks and other foods that have stevia in them, this still leaves her with a couple of good options.
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Sorry I didn't weigh in sooner when this conversation went off the rails. I don't worry about dehydration. I specifically have noticed issues with Stevia and frequent/urgent urination as well as low blood pressure symptoms. Personal experience/observation. I'm not a scientist and I'm not trying to make scientific points. I know there are a lot of really researched based people on here that weight in and also just common people like myself that maybe have noticed something similar. After paying more attention to my situation, I can add that using the Stevia liquid drops causes a more drastic effect for me in terms of frequent and urgent urination. So much so, that I won't use them If I'm leaving the house for a walk or can't use the rest room for a while. Stevia in itself (packets too) causes more bouts of this for me. I have symptoms that resemble how I feel when my blood pressure is too low. I struggle with very low blood pressure-hereditary. I don't know for certain if it IS dropping my BP because i don't have a way of measuring it at home. Lately, I will have aspartame or splenda starting in the afternoon through the evening and I am not waking up during the night to urinate. When I consume Stevia-like a stevia soda or stevia drops in a liquid-I will be up 3+ times.1
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I have come to believe( thru reading and from personal experience) that sugar is an addictive substance, and , that sugar substitutes only confuse the body into thinking the sweet taste came with the energy of real sugar. Because there is no nutrient value in artificial sweeteners, the body keeps demanding more in response to the body’s natural connection between the taste of sweet and the carb boost.
The proof from my own experience was the measurable increase in how much more artificial
Sweetener I added to my diet , six months after I started using it in the first place. From two packets of sweetener to as many as four or five, all in an effort to “get the sugar fix”. (That wasn’t ever going to happen).
Good luck to us all!18 -
I have come to believe( thru reading and from personal experience) that sugar is an addictive substance, and , that sugar substitutes only confuse the body into thinking the sweet taste came with the energy of real sugar. Because there is no nutrient value in artificial sweeteners, the body keeps demanding more in response to the body’s natural connection between the taste of sweet and the carb boost.
The proof from my own experience was the measurable increase in how much more artificial
Sweetener I added to my diet , six months after I started using it in the first place. From two packets of sweetener to as many as four or five, all in an effort to “get the sugar fix”. (That wasn’t ever going to happen).
Good luck to us all!
That hasn't been my experience at all, nor that of anyone I know.
I drink the same amount of diet soda as I have for last 5 years and haven't needed any more or any more of anything else sweet than before either.
My husband has had 2 tablets of Equal or 1 of Sugarine in coffee ( whichever is available ) for many years and occasionally 1 tsp of sugar if neither available - the amount hasn't increased over that time.
I've come to believe by reading and personal observation and experience quite the opposite to you.
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I have come to believe( thru reading and from personal experience) that sugar is an addictive substance, and , that sugar substitutes only confuse the body into thinking the sweet taste came with the energy of real sugar. Because there is no nutrient value in artificial sweeteners, the body keeps demanding more in response to the body’s natural connection between the taste of sweet and the carb boost.
The proof from my own experience was the measurable increase in how much more artificial
Sweetener I added to my diet , six months after I started using it in the first place. From two packets of sweetener to as many as four or five, all in an effort to “get the sugar fix”. (That wasn’t ever going to happen).
Good luck to us all!
lol4
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